Sometimes these comparisons are oversimplifications

August 23, 2014 in Uncategorized | Tags: racism | by Eric Kirk

But clearly the discussion has to be had. Click on the photo to enlarge.

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35 comments

August 23, 2014 at 3:49 pm

John Fullerton

You finally said something I agree with, “Sometimes these comparisons are oversimplifications”. Although I would have added the word gross in front of simplifications.

August 23, 2014 at 4:39 pm

Liberal Jon

I’m interested in you thoughts on race John. We probably could be doing much better locally on these issues wouldn’t you say?

http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_24755833/lawsuit-alleges-pervasive-racism-at-eureka-city-schools?source=email

August 23, 2014 at 6:43 pm

Judi Hojnacki

“There is a big difference between our military and our local law enforcement, and we don’t want those lines blurred,” Obama told reporters at the White House. “That would be contrary to our traditions.”

article heading
Officials: White House reviewing equipment program
http://news.yahoo.com/officials-white-house-reviewing-equipment-program-215147534–politics.html

August 23, 2014 at 7:45 pm

Eric Kirk

John F., I might agree with you, but I also have a hard time picturing a similar situation in which a posse of African Americans forced a police force to back off at gunpoint, and there not being Hell to pay at some point. Bundy basically threatened law enforcement with violence, and got what he wanted. Whether it’s because he and his thugs are white, or because he’s rich, I don’t know. But I really don’t see black activists getting away with that.

August 24, 2014 at 6:56 am

Erasmus

I have no trouble imagining a situation in which a well-armed group of black men induced a group of police officers to back off. I remember a piece in Harper’s Magazine from several years ago that described a posse of KKK members descending upon an isolated house full of black people. The author was skillful in presenting the gradual approach of the hooded thugs, and the denouement was brief and powerful — the racists were met by an equal number of rifle-bearing black men. The story ended there. (And there is no evidence that the KKK ever attempted to intimidate that household again.) —- The role of guns in the civil rights movement is rarely discussed. Glenn Smiley, a friend of MLK, used the word “arsenal” when discussing the number of firearms in the great man’s house.

August 24, 2014 at 1:30 pm

suzy blah blah

Whether it’s because he and his thugs are white, or because he’s rich, I don’t know. But I really don’t see black activists getting away with that.

-probably both. I don’t see rich black activists (if there is such an animal) getting away with it either.

August 25, 2014 at 7:17 am

suzy blah blah

-here’s another interesting comparison of the Ferguson episode:

August 25, 2014 at 7:43 am

bolithio

^^ Now thats a good one…

August 25, 2014 at 8:09 am

Liberal Jon

absolutely sbb!

You know why they can do that in the UK right?

Their populace isn’t militarized to the hilt lead by an insane reading of the 2nd Amendment.

ie… wait for it … gun control.

ssshhhh. don’t mention those two words to many of the Bad Red’s “hill folk”. (Not to mention many of “town folk” like Fred.)

August 25, 2014 at 9:47 am

suzy blah blah

-well Jon, when i was very young we had an old neighbor who always used to keep a loaded shotgun hanging in the back window of his pickup. Said it was a necessary tool on the homestead. Sometimes when i was a little girl i’d ride with him and he’d pull over and get out of the truck, gun in hand, and look suspiciously around at the landscape. He never told me why though. I suppose he figured suzy was too young to understand these things. And besides, i was a girl. He’s long gone now. RIP.

August 25, 2014 at 10:11 am

Eric Kirk

Some of these comments are really unnerving.

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/darren-wilson-donors-racist-ferguson

August 25, 2014 at 10:34 am

suzy blah blah

-glad suzy hit on a pic-meme theme that you guys can get behind. Here’s another one. It’s a photo of an American gal when she was down visiting soHum from Alaska. She was a little wild, but she was a good baby sitter. She used to tell me, “Jesus saves, not wolves though”. Oh the stories i could tell you about the parties, Jon. Notice the size of the buds on the potted plant. The dude smoking a fatty is a local kid who’s in prison now for killing a couple of his Mexican workers. Another beautiful day in paradise. You betcha.

August 25, 2014 at 10:42 am

Eric Kirk

If that was actually her physique I’d like her better. But she’s too intense for a physique like that.

August 25, 2014 at 10:44 am

suzy blah blah

-are talking about suzy, or the babysitter?

August 25, 2014 at 11:07 am

Eric Kirk

That’s babysitter whose head is shaded differently from her torso.

August 25, 2014 at 11:08 am

Dave Kirby

I remember back in the 60’s watching the L.A.P.D. wade into a group of “Methodist Mothers for Peace” with night sticks at one of the Century Plaza demonstrations. One of the cops went bananas and had to be locked in a paddy wagon til he stopped foaming at the mouth.

As for riots and looting. One of the most violent crowd vs. police incidents in SoCal took place in San Diego when a record store across the street from a concert venue ran out of free Steve Miller Band T-shirts after a concert As I recall two police cruisers were overturned and set afire.

I won’t talk about all the post game riots that occur in this country around “sporting” events. Blacks are not the only ones who engage in inappropriate behavior.

August 25, 2014 at 11:38 am

suzy blah blah

-Eric, i’m sure you’ve studied the subject thoroughly, if not obsessively, and that you know and appreciate the subtle niceties of the female torso better than suzy ever could. But let me fill you in on the context in order to dispel any illusions. The babysitter’s head is turning red to brown to grey to blue because she’s holding in a bit hit of Salmon Kreek Kush.

August 25, 2014 at 11:42 am

Liberal Jon

“Blacks are not the only ones who engage in inappropriate behavior.”

Wow. And I think you were trying to be constructive Dave, which makes this sentence even more tragic to me.

It’s going to be a long, long difficult conversation up here in HumCo and the nation.

I like that anecdote a great deal sbb. I don’t want to take the shotgun away from your former neighbor, or even armed girls or women. I’m just saying, give the cops a little break when comparing them to bobbies across the pond.

I wish we could have a similar graphic in this country, but boys like your former neighbor, girls like Sarah, and the 2nd Amendment mean this can only be a fantasy.

August 25, 2014 at 12:22 pm

suzy blah blah

-Jon, i appreciate your point about the difference in context, but that doesn’t contradict that i posted it as, “another interesting comparison” — Here’s some more food for thought:

“He’s taught in their school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
‘Bout the shape that he’s in
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.

And he’s taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide ‘neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain’t got no name
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.”

August 25, 2014 at 2:25 pm

Dave Kirby

Your right about one thing Jon. If you’re involved it will be a looooong conversation. I suggest you read a little Hemingway. Economy of language is useful if you don’t want to put people to sleep.

August 25, 2014 at 6:29 pm

Liberal Jon

Thank you Dave for the advise. My writing skills are not on par with Mr. Twain or Mr. Hemingway as you have rightly noticed.

Having said that, if I might also offer some advice. You might want to avoid sentences that have as the base truth, the one you are adding clauses on to extend, this “blacks…engage in inappropriate behavior”.

Thanks, friend, for the support?

sbb – I am not a Dylan fan, so the effect of the music with the words is lost on me. Hopefully wiki does it justice…

“The song suggests that Evers’ killer does not bear sole blame for his crime, as he was only a pawn of rich white elites who incensed poor whites against blacks so as to distract them from their position on “the caboose of the train”.”

I don’t disagree.

August 25, 2014 at 7:23 pm

suzy blah blah

–that’s cool we agree on something Jon. And if you read it again i think you’ll also agree that the genius of it is that the lyrics, like all of his lyrics, are on more than one level. If you read it over you can see that it goes beyond the topical to the universal. And it’s in its universal sense that i quoted it as a reply to you saying. “give the cops a break” –(because they’re only pawns in the game?).

August 25, 2014 at 9:34 pm

Anonymous

“You might want to avoid sentences that have as the base truth, the one you are adding clauses on to extend, this “blacks…engage in inappropriate behavior”.

You sure do have a penchant for twisting people’s words to try to make them into something negative and/or offensive.

I understood Dave’s point to be that both “black” folks and “white” folks are capable of misbehavior, and that neither group is inherently better or worse than the other in this regard. A pretty straightforward point, really. Your attempt to twist it into something else is particularly lame, even for you.

August 26, 2014 at 6:16 am

Liberal Jon

“I understood Dave’s point to be that both “black” folks and “white” folks are capable of misbehavior”

That’s deep. Why discuss that now when we are dealing with a dead African American teenager who could be a victim of thoughts like “black folks misbehave”. It’s no longer driving while black, it’s walking while black.

But seriously, don’t listen to me. I’m another white folk in a white community. Listen, for example to Charles Blow of the NYT*. He speaks with so much power about being the parent of African American teenagers in a country where even if you are an African American that isn’t misbehaving like Trayvon Martin.

What makes Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown so compelling, frustrating, and deeply disturbing to a national audience is exactly that both of these cherished children were behaving. They were young, black, and successful. They came from intact families with parents that loved them. “Black and white folks are capable of having loving families” btw.

If they weren’t behaving the night they died, neither one deserved the death penalty. This is (another) example of our justice system failing it’s own population. We know why, and history shows we are headed in the right direction. However, unfortunately, and sometimes tragically, we are not there yet.

If, worst case scenario, either one of them or both, because we don’t know, either teenager had to die because of a wanna-be nightwatchman or a police officer was in physical danger, then we need to investigate how often the roles are reversed. How often black officers shoot and kill white teenagers. Because unless one is arguing there is an innate reason there should be a difference based on race, we will find structural differences in our society that cause such heart-breaking statistical differences.

Our next goal would be to find ways to fix these structural differences, and no, having an African American as president does not solve our nation’s racial problems. It’s a step in the right direction obviously.

* http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/opinion/charles-blow-a-funeral-in-ferguson-michael-brown.html?_r=0

Yet, too many people have had to endure a similar grief (of their child dying), if often under different circumstances. According to ChildDeathReview.org, in 2010, 45,068 children ages 0 to 19 died in the United States. Two-thirds died of natural causes. Another 8,684 died of unintentional injuries like car accidents and drowning. But 2,808 died as result of homicide, including 1,790 by firearm.

And when the person being shot is shot not by one of the bad guys (people all parents teach children to avoid as best they can) but by one of the people we as a society count as one of the good guys (police officers sworn to protect and serve) there are obviously going to be questions that need answering.

August 26, 2014 at 8:06 am

Dave Kirby

Jon…Perhaps you feel that smashing the window and stealing merchandise from a business that had nothing to do with this tragedy is O.K.. I think it gives the racists more ammo and demeans the memory of this kid. Thats what I am referring to .

August 26, 2014 at 8:35 am

Anonymous

I’m guessing that was obvious to everyone reading this thread…except Jon, of course.

August 26, 2014 at 1:28 pm

Just Watchin

jonboy…..know your facts before before jumping on the Trayvon Martin wagon. Maybe it wasn’t reported nationally, but the information was reported locally. first, he wasn’t from an intact family. His parents were divorced, and his mother had kicked him out of her house, and he was living with an aunt. The autopsy showed he had marijuana and codeine in his system. He was at the door of his father’s girlfriend’s condo, where he was staying, when he walked over 200 feet BACK to confront Zimmerman. What wasn’t made public was that the goofy girl he was on the phone with encouraged him to “go kick that cracker’s ass”. He wasn’t a little boy. He was 6 feet tall and 170 pounds. He was a thug wannabe that fucked with the wrong person that night.

August 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm

suzy blah blah

-the best codeine comes from France.

August 26, 2014 at 2:34 pm

Erasmus

I wasn’t going to weigh in on the Trayvon Martin case (for reasons of still-lingering fatigue over discussing it), but JW provided the impetus. — The day before the verdict was announced. there was a panel discussion of the case on NPR. and every member predicted that Zimmerman would be exonerated. Martin was seen pummeling Zimmerman on a sidewalk, using what an eyewitness called “MMA” (mixed martial arts) techniques on his smaller antagonist (who was bloodied when the police arrived). One can certainly question Zimmerman’s decision to trail Martin and to “profile” him, but Martin’s reaction led to his doom. Had I been in Zimmerman’s shoes, and had I had a gun, I might have killed my attacker with it — not intentionally, but unavoidably. — People who conflate the Martin case with the killing of Brown are guilty of muddy thinking.

August 26, 2014 at 8:39 pm

Thomas

That supposed photo of Sarah Palin is bogus.

England cops fire guns far less often than the US. That statistic is meaningless without perspective. The US has over 100 cops killed in the line of duty per year on average compared to England’s less than one. The bad guys here are far more dangerous.

August 27, 2014 at 5:21 am

Liberal Jon

Right on both point Thomas. On the second I’m glad you also support gun control and a realistic reading of the 2nd amendment by clearly seeing the advantage in reduced deaths by bullets.

*******************************************************************************************

Erasmus – You are the closest thing the Northcoast will get to a William Buckley Jr. Very smart, Good logical arguments. Very right wing.

Think about what you are saying and what that means. Of course Zimmerman was going to be exonerated.

“Martin was seen pummeling” Wouldn’t you if you thought your life was in danger – or if you were pissed as I would have been?

I like also the nice touch of adding MMA as if somehow now the argument becomes Trayvon himself is weaponized with martial arts training.

Trayvon and Michael were young, black teenagers. Both were threatening to their antagonist either because of size or an alleged “pummeling”. Both were also cornered for a reason. The question is was that reason being black while walking?

We won’t know, but we know that one’s own answers will have more to do with one’s race and politics.

Erasmus, think about Trayvon’s potential fate’s that night. a) killed and his assaulter set free, b) kill your assaulter and likely go to jail (please, do you think he would have been exonerated of manslaughter at the very least), c) beat up a wannabe cop with anger and potentially racial issues – likely legal consequences, d) deal with an annoying pompous ass by walking away or e) not go out that night.

Erasmus – what I think is tragic is that with your line of reasoning d) and e) are the only options for African American teenagers – c) is an option if/when we roll back concealed weapon laws. b) and a) – take your chances with the U.S. legal system. Erasmus, don’t you think all evidence points to a US legal system that is biased against you if you are black? From the police officers to the judge and juries – there seems to be a double standard based on race. I hope I don’t have to link to the stats again for you to see that.

One of the many reasons our justice system is racially biased is the double standard that African American male teenagers have to walk a much finer line to make it into their 30’s.

Finally,

“People who conflate the Martin case with the killing of Brown are guilty of muddy thinking.”

How many African Americans were on that jury?

*
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

August 27, 2014 at 9:47 am

suzy blah blah

That supposed photo of Sarah Palin is bogus.

-yes she’s looking pretty hot, isn’t she?

August 27, 2014 at 12:03 pm

Just Watchin

jonboy….you’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Martin was not “cornered for a reason” There had been a rash of burglaries in the complex, and Zimmerman didn’t recognize him as a resident. Like I said, he came BACK 200 feet to confront Zimmerman. And as for number of blacks on the jury, it was 5 white women, and 1 black woman. Seems a little biased, as there were no Hispanic jurors. Get your head out of your ass jon.

August 28, 2014 at 6:11 am

Liberal Jon

JW: This, “People who conflate the Martin case with the killing of Brown are guilty of muddy thinking.”

How many African Americans were on that jury?

Was a joke, the joke is Erasmus’ use of the word guilty to unilaterally charge muddy thinking.

But I’m glad you are concerned about bias. If you are, then you too might be a liberal. There is hope.

August 28, 2014 at 7:36 am

suzy blah blah

Erasmus – You are the closest thing the Northcoast will get to a William Buckley Jr. Very smart, Good logical arguments.

-ha! good one, if you’d have ever met him in person you’d see that it’s even closer than you think. His demeanor and means of expression, accent, intonation, etc. including his aloof politeness and formal manners, mimic Buckley’s quite a bit. To me that’s a good thing. Of course Buckley and Erasmus themselves would both laugh at the comparison. Erasmus has a lot of “class” and style, suzy salutes that. Likewise the cool thing about Buckley is his dry humor and condescending wit. But but the “problem” is, Jon, they’re thinking with their heads–and you’re “thinking with your heart”.

So, i’ll repeat what you said to JW, “there is hope” ❤

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Sometimes these comparisons are oversimplifications

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