Freethinker Bob Froelich will join me to discuss the flexibility of the human mind. Since college, have you changed your mind about anything significant? Have you changed a political position, or at least changed the way you look at the issue? If so, what triggered it? Was it a sudden revelation, or did a change in your position evolve over time?
My hypothesis is that at a certain age it’s personal experience which has the best chance of changing a mind, not evidence. As this study suggests, the mind does not necessarily take evidence and generate a change in thinking. In fact, the resistance to change of thought, in my hypothesis, probably served a positive function in the survival of the species at some point in our evolution. It may be neurological or otherwise biological – that what we perceive as delusional in others is the very same factor which generates our own seemingly rational intransigence – but in biological terms may be a “healthy” phenomenon rather than a disorder. I will suggest that what may have been beneficial to the perpetuation of the species at one time is no longer the case, and to a certain degree the human race may have to transcend its own biology to survive.
Bob and I will throw out some particular issues as examples, but we will be directing the discussion to the general topic and not to any debates on particular issues. I realize that will be very difficult for some, but I will be looking for a focused discussion.
Sohum Parlance II 
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April 17, 2014 at 1:37 pm
suzy blah blah
-suzy’s personal experience tells me the mind will only embrace change at its own individual level of understanding the evidence. For some it’s a million, some a thousand, others only five bucks.
April 17, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Not A Native
Q: How many radio talk show hosts does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. The light bulb, ignoring evidence, will change only when it experiences being burnt out.
Eric uses the word ‘evidence’ as a legal concept based on an adversarial proceeding officiated by a person(Judge) who has no experience of the issue and simply compares(weighs) the material that is fairly presented.
But for individuals, evidence and experience are not separate things, they are one and the same. For example, some people experience listening to rock music lyrics(often when intoxicated). And that experience becomes the basis to portray those lyrics as evidence of a fact. In legal terms, the rock musician is an ‘expert witnesses’.
April 18, 2014 at 6:29 am
Mitch
Eric,
On the subject of changing your mind, there’s a documentary “Pandora’s Promise.” It’s a propaganda piece by people who have changed their minds about nuclear power. It was done by HBO, I think, but it’s on Netflix.
I’ve gone back and forth on nuclear power many times.
For me, changing my mind almost always involves hearing someone I respect saying something that surprises me. Often, it’s not that they shed light on a subject, but more that they gently expose my assumptions or ignorance. It’s not an argument, more a case of downcast eyes. They’ve pretty much got to be in the same room — TV and radio don’t do it, nor do newspapers and magazines.
Have you ever watched dogs watching their human, trying to eke out every nuance of their approval/disapproval? It’s kind of like that.
April 18, 2014 at 10:57 am
Eric Kirk
I’m still opposed to nuclear power, and certainly where it is susceptible to big disasters like earthquakes and big waves – and concerned about the long term disposal of wastes and old reactors. But my opposition has softened as I’ve read up.
Where I could be changing my mind is gmo’s. I kind of accepted the opposition arguments by default, but as I’m reading up I’m finding that in terms of peer-reviewed examination, there is no there there.
And that came from reading, not personal conversation.
I’ve also changed my mind, somewhat, about the first gulf war. I still blame either sloppy or deliberate policy which led up to Iraq’s takeover of Kuwait, but I also do not believe that the international community, specifically the UN, can simply allow one of it’s members to be swallowed up. I’m not firmed up on my opinion. I marched against the war, and I’m very well aware of the various issues. But I’m looking at it differently.
I looked at the Israeli-Palestine conflict differently after I saw a man who had helped murder several captured Israeli soldiers lift up his bloody hands out a window to a cheering crowd, and remembered Golda Meir’s comment about hatred exceeding the love of children. Didn’t make me less critical of Israeli policy, but a little more understanding.
My take on the Second Amendment and gun control in the US changed somewhat after reading “That Inconvenient Amendment” and the need to maintain the integrity of the Bill of Rights even if I would be happy to see the Second Amendment removed or reworded.
Over the years I have come to believe that more of our behavior is innate – hard-wired oriented than I had believed, and less environmentally driven. Strictly from reading liberal science analysis, which has also changed, though I also think that some of the distinction between nature and nurture is superficial.
I am uncertain about what I want to see in Afghanistan. On the one hand, I question whether our troops being there add to the stability – it may be aggravating it. On the other hand, having read and listened to interviews with progressive Afghan women, I am convinced of the need for a strong military presence to protect women who want to be educated, etc. and aware that the existing government may lack both the strength and will to devote itself to that protection.
These are issues in which I have come to move away from left wing canon. There are many others.
On the other hand, the 2008 collapse and its causes have revived, perhaps permanently, old socialist notions which had been perhaps weakening over the years – certainly in terms of class analysis and the centralization of economic power with rating institutions having proven themselves mere sycophant organizations and accessories to massive fraud on the part of economic elites – and the fact that none of these people are in jail or at least heavily fined – I’m probably much closer to the sentiments of my 20s than my 30s.
And my opposition to the death penalty has always been there, but it has been strengthened over the years to the point where I believe that support for it is borderline insane. It used to be a moral question. But I have no doubt that even under the premises of the legal justice system that many people have died who should not have.
I can probably come up with more examples. But I think most of the changes have come from reading. Arguments. Evidence. Changes in the reality around me. Mellowing of my own militancy with age. And an ideology instilled by my parents and other figures I was raised with to constantly reexamine even my most basic of assumptions and positions. I don’t know that I always succeed, but I will credit myself with having made the effort. I’m 100 percent certain of almost nothing. If I’m 70 percent certain of something I’ll probably act on it.
Unfortunately, in my experience, I could share about 95 percent of my political positions with someone, but that person will often rail, even get angry, over even my acceptance of mere nuances on one of these issues.
April 18, 2014 at 11:58 am
Mitch
Eric,
I didn’t mean to imply that reading and evidence play no role in coming to conclusions. I guess I just assume that when it comes to something scientific, new evidence means a rethink. I don’t think of that as changing my mind.
But there’s another side to things which has more to do with moral understanding or the concept of the sacred, and that’s where personal conversation comes into play.
The death penalty would be an example. Different people have different understandings of when state-sponsored murder is permitted. That’s separate from whether the death penalty deters, which is a question that can potentially be answered scientifically. The question of when the state is entitled to murder someone is a moral question, not a scientific one.
Another example would be abortion. For someone who is convinced that the fetus, by virtue of its species-hood or soul, should be accorded the full-fledged rights and respect that most liberals feel all human beings are entitled to, no amount of scientific discussion about neurological development is likely to change their mind vis a vis the rightness or wrongness of abortion. The science doesn’t enter into it.
Final example, nuclear power. The science can present information on potential radiation damage, statistical likelihood of accidents, dangers of alternatives, and so on. That’s fine, and it would be great if policymakers could at least learn about current scientific thought on these sorts of matters. But then you get into what is less science and more morality — what are we entitled to do that will leave these things behind for future generations. Different people will reach different conclusions, even if they agree on the scientific facts.
I think it’s a mistake to think that scientific evidence should play a role in making moral determinations. But I wish it were at least possible for Americans to have agreement about where science can provide answers, at least in theory, and where science can offer no ultimate answer.
April 18, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Erasmus
Eric is in good company in his ability to rethink his opposition to the first Gulf war. Here is what Barnie Frank said to “Time” magazine (September 10, 2012, page 64) when asked “What one do-over would you like?”) — “I would have voted for the first Iraq War. I voted against it because I was afraid that George Bush the father was going to behave the way George Bush the son behaved. Now I regard the first Iraq War as a very successful and appropriate use of American power.” Amen!
April 18, 2014 at 4:07 pm
suzy blah blah
I think it’s a mistake to think that scientific evidence should play a role in making moral determinations.
-i think a confusion arises because the majority of people’s “morals” are not actually morals at all but rather are ethical concerns. Most people have no morals today of any significance so they substitute an ethical standpoint obtained from the culture. It’s an easy one-stop shopping plan. But a moral decision doesn’t come from without, that’s ethics, the moral decision always comes from within.
April 18, 2014 at 9:47 pm
Anonymous
In her book “Fear and Conventionality”, Dr. E.C.Parsons observes, “To all of us, the animal, the savage or the civilized being, few demands are as uncomfortable, disquieting or fearful as the call to innovate, adaptations we dodge as best we may”.
“Changing your mind” is the easy part.
Then what?
April 19, 2014 at 6:25 am
Liberal Jon
“I would have voted for the first Iraq War. I voted against it because I was afraid that George Bush the father was going to behave the way George Bush the son behaved. Now I regard the first Iraq War as a very successful and appropriate use of American power.” Amen!
? But hindsight is 20/20. How would he have known how either George Bush would have ended the war?
What we need is to bring back “War” as any military action that Congress has to declare.
I think that would be a start.
It would make it much more difficult to drop a drone-supplied bomb, but that would be the point.
“It’s an easy one-stop shopping plan. But a moral decision doesn’t come from without, that’s ethics, the moral decision always comes from within.”
It’s not easy. It takes a great deal of thought.
Since this is finally on topic – I’ll post it one more time. Jonathan Haidt” “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion”
April 19, 2014 at 12:44 pm
suzy blah blah
-okay Jon, i’ll take back the “it’s as easy as one stop shopping”, part. That was a bad attempt at humor. But it’s interesting that you commented and recommended the book because it makes it even clearer to me how our world views differ fundamentally. The way i see it, morality means individual , ethics means social. In other words, “group morality” or “a moral system” is an oxymoron. That doesn’t necessarily mean that an individual in a group doesn’t have morality. It means that when the group makes a decision based on the morals of the individuals that the conclusion, or compromise, or voters choice, etc., is no longer morality. It’s ethics. Big difference.
April 19, 2014 at 11:07 pm
Anonymous
“I can probably come up with more examples. But I think most of the changes have come from reading. Arguments. Evidence. Changes in the reality around me. Mellowing of my own militancy with age.”
Your examples are totally non-experiences to begin with. You’re basically talking about your opinions of the tennessee twisters having won the superbowl. What about a much more core change of mind, like for example acknowledging the fact that the government is practicing focused social engineering at this very moment in history, upon it’s own citizenry
(and you!)…and application of that understanding over a simple right or wrong opinion of it? You can see with your own eyes (on the computer!) three skyscrapers demolished by explosives, yet you do not see them demolished by explosives. You can see an entire sky full of manufactured cloud cover, yet not see a sky full of manufactured cloud cover. I don’t “read” you changing your mind at all. You’re a stick in the mud.
April 20, 2014 at 12:23 am
Eric Kirk
Well 11:07, I used to believe that government had that kind of power, but I think I got over it at the end of my freshman year of college. Or maybe my sophomore year of high school. So I guess my “core change of mind” on that issue came and went a long time ago. Actually, I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny at about five years old, so that’s probably the last I might have been influenced by the Truther industry.
April 20, 2014 at 8:23 am
Mitch
Here’s another reply to 11:07.
What you see in WTC videos is extremely suspicious. Two airplanes, three towers fall. It’s the sort of thing that leads rapidly to an initial conclusion. But after the initial conclusion, it’s important to keep an open mind to see if there are explanations other than the initial one. Brain scientists are discovering that there are two alternate pathways (apologies for the oversimplification) to handle the two necessary reactions — the short term best guess and the longer term weighing of all evidence. When most of us bring the second pathway to bear, we realize that our initial guess — though highly supportable with the initial evidence — was insufficient and wrong.
I won’t explain why because you seem to know how to do your own research. But I will say that the second pathway is often fooled by herd instinct, but not always. Sometimes it’s just that the first pathway led to an incorrect conclusion.
If you’ve never seen the optical illusion with the room that’s been designed to make one person look tiny and another person large, it would be well worth seeing it.
As for the sky full of manufactured cloud cover, the only thing that’s required in order to find that a reasonable explanation is a complete disbelief of the integrity of alll but a tiny minority of scientists. Honestly, I can understand why someone would find themselves with that attitude, but I believe it is wrong.
Our mutual respect for one another, in modern society, has taken a lot of blows due to the extraordinary degree we’ve allowed institutions to be corrupted. That makes it very easy to make “cheating” our first assumption when we see with our own eyes something people in authority deny. That’s undoubtedly correct a fair amount of the time. But not always.
I don’t always go with the consensus opinion myself. For an example of when I believe the consensus is wrong, see here: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/22987-why-toyota-is-settling-its-sudden-acceleration-cases
April 20, 2014 at 8:40 am
Anonymous
“As for the sky full of manufactured cloud cover, the only thing that’s required in order to find that a reasonable explanation is a complete disbelief of the integrity of alll but a tiny minority of scientists.”
And you’ve been a skywatcher how long, mitch? To see anything but fumigated skies during the frequent cloud covers I’m talking about (this last week, even) would also require completely ignoring my entire personal past of empirical evidence. It didn’t used to happen. At all. Now it’s happening. You and eric and countless others refuse to acknowledge this…it’s like reverse paranoia on your parts. I’m outside all day every day, no bullshit. The twin towers collapsing (with bonus building) are similar…you’ve already made up your minds about the government…santa clause would never drop a hand grenade down a chimney, kinda thing. You’re twisting your neurons so as to see controlled demolitions being the result of something else entirely.
April 20, 2014 at 8:45 am
Anonymous
eric, if Truther industry is a proper noun, then so should your Stick In The Mud cult of blowhards. What’s funny to me is that in the future the truth will come out yet you still won’t say you’re wrong, just something like “well we had no way of knowing back then.” It’s all there for you to see, right now with your own eyes. To say it’s flying right over your head is an appropriate euphamism.
April 20, 2014 at 9:13 am
Anonymous
…a grand example of mental snafuery can be seen among people who denied global warming. They’re undergoing all kinds of brain re-wiring…they refuse to call it “global warming”, they refuse to accept it’s industry based, they refuse to discuss its longitude, they argue the later points of effect instead of immediate consequences, they make every effort to deny they were in denial.
April 20, 2014 at 9:33 am
Anonymous
“Well 11:07, I used to believe that government had that kind of power, but I think I got over it at the end of my freshman year of college.”
So you probably have no idea what’s in kid’s history and social studies text books through grades K-12 right now. Just one example of many. And what was the term being used to shape behavior…passive something?…that was driving all the old school teachers bonkers? “Social engineering” isn’t a term I prefer thanks to the internet and people like yourself who twist them into tinfoil. But it’s naïve to think we’re in some kind of golden age of government right now, in those regards especially.
April 20, 2014 at 9:41 am
Not A Native
But you know, reading isn’t an experience. If it were, after reading 11:07 you should have changed your mind. In science classes, labs and experiments aren’t done for fun. They’re done so students have an actual experience and evidence that gives credibility to the explanations in the textbook. Students aren’t reasonably expected to change their minds simply from reading.
April 20, 2014 at 9:44 am
Not A Native
BTW, my comment was directed to Eric.
April 20, 2014 at 10:00 am
Anonymous
FYI, eric, your example study about changing minds above is a very bad one. The entire institution is suspect, and so the evidence is as well. “Trust us, this poison is good…this time.” You gotta give some people credit (maybe the majority, in your case) for seeing a bigger picture than you allow yourself to see, and retaining it in application. Believe it or not, some people are simply more intelligent than you will ever be.
April 20, 2014 at 10:56 am
Anonymous
So, how would one test the hypothesis that the trails we see following planes are not just condensation trails (contrails), but are actually loaded with aluminum or barium or whatever (“chemtrails”)? Well, the simplest way would be to go up in a plane and take samples. Yeah, it costs a bit to rent a private plane, and if you wanted to do it right you’d need to hire a credible researcher and have the resulting samples tested at an accredited lab. So it would cost a few thousand dollars. But if you actually found abnormally high levels of aluminum or barium or whatever, then finally you’d have actual evidence, and could challenge skeptics to replicate your methods and produce their own evidence.
With all the thousands of “chemtrail” believers out there hawking videos and holding conferences and endlessly discussing their various theories online, why have they never bothered to pitch in a dollar or two each and taken this simple step? Because it’s never occurred to them to actually test the substance they’re making claims about, even though it wouldn’t be all that hard to do so? Or because somewhere in the back of their mind they fear that the results will show the dreaded “chemtrails” are truly just contrails (condensation trails), are almost entirely H20, and therefore that the “chemtrail” conspiracy theory they’ve spent countless hours ranting about has been a colossal waste of their time and energy?
By the way, persistent contrails spread and contribute to the formation of cloud cover have been observed since the dawn of high-altitude air travel. It’s not a new phenomenon, and is easily explained by some pretty basic physics:
http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/
April 20, 2014 at 12:03 pm
Anonymous
“So, how would one test the hypothesis that the trails we see following planes are not just condensation trails (contrails), but are actually loaded with aluminum or barium or whatever (“chemtrails”)? ”
It didn’t happen, now it’s happening. Get it? I watch the sky all the time. I learned about “chemtrails” in 2002, there weren’t any. Very few, way too far between to call it the phenomenon it has become. It doesn’t happen all the time, and you can see it happening very clearly when it does, in humboldt county no less. It happens in specific patterns when it does happen. Every single bit of condensation in the sky was a result of airplanes last wednesday. That’s not normal. That didn’t use to happen at all around here, yet it’s increased in frequency enough to be a semi-regular occurance. It’s becoming normal, and you and eric will be among those who call it normal, having no history of observation, just internet babble to guide you. This is coinciding with dramatic climate change and drought. Tests of snowpack have been done, showing exactly the chemicals believed to be in the “chemtrails”…etc. etc. etc. You do know that cloud seeding and atmospheric stabilization (geoengineering) are factual and actual practices being carried out in this country, right? Can you tell me where these facts are advertised in specifics? Sorry but you’re looking at the sky with blinders on.
April 20, 2014 at 3:43 pm
olmanriver
In several areas of the country that I know of those readings for barium and aluminum have been taken at the ground level, Mt Shasta and Arizona are examples. Lawyers took the air quality control folks in Siskyiyou to task over the readings. If 10:56 is who I think it is, I told you this to your face, but you failed to look it up. It is easier to dismiss others based on partial information on blogs, isn’t it! While there are certainly conditions that are conducive to the natural formation of “persisitent contrails”, nothing approaching the volume of observations of the phenomena in recent decades has occurred in the history of aviation. Particularly in areas that have no commercial flight patterns. People who are outside observe more than most and there is something irregular going on. Are military planes flying at different altitudes where cloud formation is more likely? Has military fuel changed to more condensation and cloud forming formula. These are a few of the counter “conspiracy” theories I think of, trying to rebut a very obvious to those who look up phenomena.
The opposite of Truthers is Liars, not stick in the muds.
For some reason, hahaha, MSM missed the most recent comments by Graham about the Saudis attacking the US on 9/11. You would think the Truth would be front page news, eh? Remember all those redacted pages in the Joint Congressional investigation? While the FBI found no paper trail to OBL, a clear trail exists to Saudi Arabia. (and I suspect others)
Speaking of so called “conspiracy theories”… I have read the NY Times revile anyone opposing water fluoridation a number of times, somehow they haven’t reported on Israel’s recent pulling the plug on their country’s mandatory program. Based on science. It is thought that Ireland will follow suit soon.
and ps. Mitch did you read about the NAS reporting on the failure of the NZ pot dumbs you down study to factor in economic status, thus making the value of the study nil. As I recall from your stint at Heraldo’s you thought it was a good study and that they had confounded well.
pss. Captain Kirk, you were dismissive on this blog of the accusation that the government/military did chemical tests on civilian populations until I gave you a link, and to your credit, you changed your mind.
Maybe all your mind didn’t shut down way back when.
April 20, 2014 at 4:14 pm
suzy blah blah
-he lives!
April 20, 2014 at 4:38 pm
olmanriver
Yup, still missing prepositions, mangling dangling clauses, and “persisitently” mispelling after all these years!
April 20, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Anonymous
olmanriver,
Again, why don’t those who believe contrails are actually aluminum/barium “chemtrails” just get organized and rent a plane, hire an independent researcher, and go take samples? In other words, don’t just speculate, investigate. Bigfoot may be hiding in the forests, or not, but the contrails are right there in the sky — it’s no mystery where to find them — so there’s no good excuse for continuing to blather on while failing to take the most obvious step to test the hypothesis.
I’ve been watching the skies since the early 70’s and in my observation the only thing that has changed about contrails is that there are more of them…because there is more air travel.
Fun fact for the day: Aluminum is the most common metal in the earth’s crust, present in air (as dust), water, and soil, both as a result of natural processes, and also because of significant contributions from power plants and industrial sources. So far, no one has been able to point to any actual evidence whatsoever that it’s being dumped/sprayed from airplanes.
April 20, 2014 at 5:17 pm
olmanriver
At the bottom of this article
http://sonomanewstoday.blogspot.com/2009/03/chemtrails-polluting-shasta-water.html is some information for you concerning the state’s monitoring contaminants in N. Cal waters, including an address for the state’s report showing the chemicals alleged to be in chemtrails showing up in our drinking water with changes and spikes occuring at the time of the increase in observed “persistent contrail” phenomena. http://stopsprayingcalifornia.com/Shasta_County.php will take you to the Mt Shasta reports. Recently in our local blogworld I saw reports for contaminants in our local rivers, excessive aluminum was frequently third on the list. Is it background from the soil? Or? I don’t know. I have read our local water districts water safety reports for years and aluminum hasn’t shown up in any alarming amounts in their tests that are done at the beginning of summer. California’s testing of drinking water shows some alarming things as the blogsite given above states. I agree that more testing is needed, but at least start by reading what science has been done. And follow it up and see if it is replicable.
I read some time back that about 1/3 of the mercury found in northern Oregon waters was from China, so maybe the contaminants from the sky are from other sources. That is a reasonable conjecture.
I am all for more monitoring and open disclosure of what is found.
April 20, 2014 at 5:54 pm
olmanriver
“Ever notice how it is always the other person who has ‘cognitive dissonance’?”
sayings of Gabby Haze
April 20, 2014 at 6:26 pm
suzy blah blah
“The warrior can’t arrive at seeing until he learns to stop the world. He can’t stop the world until he learns to hold contradictory information in his mind without conflict. Only when he realizes that his singular point of focus was a mistake, and his clarity an illusion, will he defeat his second enemy.”
Carlos Castaneda
April 20, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Anonymous
“…start by reading what science has been done. And follow it up and see if it is replicable.”
As far as the Shasta claims, independent testing using proper methodology did not find any unusual levels of aluminum in the water:
http://www.mtshastanews.com/article/20090610/NEWS/306109966/0/SEARCH/?tag=1
But again, my point is if you suspect there is aluminum or barium or whatever in contrails, then the logical way to test that is to sample the contrails.
Of course the chemtrail enthusiasts aren’t going to believe the results of any sampling and analysis done by any state or federal or international agency, because when the results come back showing no unusual levels of aluminum or barium, they will simply dismiss this as part of the conspiracy/coverup.
So it would have to be a credible independent researcher/academic, and a reputable independent lab. Which, including the use of a suitable aircraft, sampling equipment, the time of professionals to do the sampling and analysis would probably run somewhere in the low five figures. Which is a drop in the bucket compared to what the chemtrail crowd spends on documentaries full of demonstrably false claims and easily-debunked pseudoscience, and conferences where self-styled “chemtrail experts” spin elaborate conspiracy theories to their credulous followers.
The problem is, the true believers take their cues from charlatans and hoaxsters that promote the various chemtrail conspiracy theories to sell their books, videos and “lectures” — and the last thing these charlatans and hoaxsters want is to actually test the substance they’re making claims about. Because they know the results will show their claims to be pure nonsense, and they’re making a nice dollar promoting those claims.
If Alex Jones and Jeff Rense and the rest of the professional conspiracy-theory peddling industry actually believed their own chemtrail claims, they could easily bankroll credible, independent testing of actual contrails, but they haven’t, and never will. Nope, they will continue to milk the bogus chemtrail “controversy” as click-bait to sell quack medicines and other useless products to suckers. It’s a viable marketing strategy, since selecting for people gullible enough to buy into outlandish conspiracy theories devoid of any real evidence yields them an audience made up of exactly the kind of suckers who may be gullible enough to buy “Immortalium” which promises to “extend the lifespan of biological clocks in every cell” thereby “slowing cellular aging,” along with Rife Machines, special pendants that both protect you from EMF radiation and “balance and clarify your energies,” “orgone-emitting wall plaques,” “InfoWars Super Male Vitality Nutritional Supplement” and so on. For the true believers, I feel pity — their lack of basic critical thinking skills must make life a baffling and frightening experience for them — but for the hucksters and hoaxters, I feel only disgust. similar to what I feel for people who exploit the mentally ill or developmentally disabled. Same basic thing — they prey on the weak to line their pockets and feed their egos.
April 20, 2014 at 9:31 pm
Anonymous
This nation has a long, dreadful history of experimentation on its citizens…Tuskegee…nuclear bomb testing…The Plutonium Files…and on and on, as if the horrors of Nazi Germany were an anomaly.
EVERY past empire abused the science and technology of its era to trick, trap, spy and experiment on citizens, ours is no different.
What’s notable today is the lack of brown-shirts, jackboots and violence needed to maintain torpor in our largely numbed state.
This thread offers a good example, as the author and “Mitch” stand on their hind legs to wax profuse over the mildest of “maybe-dissent” as if it were any evidence of moral acuity. It is not.
Consider the local context absent from all media of a sitting supervisor (Bass) excitedly announcing “hundreds of new jobs on our bay” during every “debate” while carefully providing ZERO details. Knowing local history, shouldn’t she be explaining how wood pellet manufacturing, destined for China, will be done safely, and how this industry, unlike virtually every other, will be held accountable?
Every credible local journalist and “community-interest” media source should have made this a headline story considering how our air, water and soil are contaminated, one in three citizens are contracting cancer, our bay is wrapped in brownfeilds, our economy relies on the quality of our bay, and two of our supervisors were employees of the worst offending polluter!!
“changing minds” can’t happen without routine and reliable reporting on the corruption in our nation and our own community.
Ask any of the vast majority of eligible voters that never vote. They’ll tell you how corrupt it is, how their vote won’t change it, and how no one ever knocks on their door to tell them otherwise.
April 20, 2014 at 9:40 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually, what a change of mind requires is original thought.
April 20, 2014 at 10:03 pm
suzy blah blah
-when you see a sentence that begins, “Actually,” you can be sure what follows is going to be a crock of shit.
April 20, 2014 at 10:10 pm
Anonymous
When you see a sentence that begins “when you see a sentence that begins,” you can be sure that what follows will not add anything useful to the discussion.
April 21, 2014 at 12:18 am
Anonymous
In reality, “original (independent) thought” is unlikely when uninformed, otherwise, there would be far less interest by 5 corporations to dominate the media industry and our “public” universities would still be free.
For this nation, and Humboldt County’s current leadership, “original (independent) thought” rarely overcomes perceived self-interest, no matter how many are effected, or how horrific the consequences…until large mobs of angry average citizens inform and inspire a “change of mind”.
History’s enduring lesson is that we never learn from it.
April 21, 2014 at 6:15 am
Liberal Jon
anon – we are working desperately right now. We will knock on as many doors as we can – starting with the most effective, which is still the Dems and Greens then the NPP. Make sure you are out here with the CK and SL campaigns.
The problem isn’t intentions, it is labor and time. As it is we have to prioritize. I agree completely with your sentiments. Make sure you and yours are out here too. If we all come out a little bit, we can knock on expanded canvasing lists to include NPP. Also, we can then maybe spend a little more time with those that want to talk. As it is now, we are simply there to remind the registered voter about the election and how great ____ would be for Humboldt’s future and why. It has to be quick, it would be cool if it could be longer. It could be longer if we had more help.
April 21, 2014 at 7:25 am
Mitch
olmanriver,
If your point is that the Rogeberg study did not get the same heavy media coverage as the Dunedin study, point taken.
But if you are suggesting that the Dunedin study was “invalidated” by the Rogeberg study, you might want to read this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3600438/
Perhaps the most important point is that it is easy for an interested party to read both sides’ sets of evidence, and watch the argument play out.
April 21, 2014 at 9:11 am
Fred Mangels
-when you see a sentence that begins, “Actually,” you can be sure what follows is going to be a crock of sh…
Actually, I”m not sure that’s true.
April 21, 2014 at 9:52 am
Not A Native
Eric, since you cited your change of mind about food GMO’s, here’s an article that has potential to change my mind. Actualy , I’m not anti-GMO in general, I just think the precautionary principal should be stringently followed for every GMO potential use. If it isn’t absolutely needed, don’t do it.
Simply, it described potential hazards of eating rice and suggests GMO technology could reduce the hazard. So, to me, a food GMO technology could be appropriate if the benefits are engineered to be nutritional and can’t be met by other conventional means(so that would exclude golden rice, as it is).
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/the-trouble-with-rice
April 21, 2014 at 10:05 am
suzy blah blah
-coming soon: The Invasion of the Angry Average Citizens –starring Anonymous and Anonymous.
April 21, 2014 at 4:26 pm
Narration
reasonably good backgrounder on much of this from comic this weekend: http://doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2014/04/20
April 21, 2014 at 7:29 pm
olmanriver
thanks Mitch.
April 21, 2014 at 11:10 pm
Anonymous
“Make sure you are out here with the CK and SL campaigns.”
Thanks for your comments Jon, your points are well-made.
The blogs, print, radio and TV media are flooded with irrelevancies (as we see here). At least some of the blogs avoid headlining daily bleed/lead stories, however, too many offer self-serving esoteric platforms for egotists exercising feel-good pseudo-intellectualism that’s utterly pointless.
Meanwhile, Humboldt County is subject to the same political reality of unreported moneyed corruption like everywhere else. With rare exceptions, only high voter turnouts, unseen in over a generation, are capable of routing right-wing industry’s political lap-dogs.
Chronic low voter turnout forces “liberals” to compromise core values to win, causing more voter losses….illustrated repeatedly in local “debates” and tonight’s Congressional “Telephone Town Hall” with McCowen repeatedly emphasizing : “reach across the isle”/”common ground”/”come together”/”staying positive”, ad nausea…promising ZERO changes.
Neither the CK or SL campaigns, nor ANY of the campaigns, initiatives, or political organizations before them have ever targeted and canvassed unregistered households and registered non-voters. Everyone keeps returning to the failed playbook, fully resigned to compete for a tiny minority of stubborn voters which requires lots of money, volunteers, technology, media and kid-glove issues and milquetoast debates.
This is why CK has a 50/50 chance instead of 90% against a “democrat” waitress that flew with Rob Arkley to a Bush campaign event, and why Jared Huffman endorsed Bass and Chesbro endorsed Sundberg, shoving aside Latour that would be Humboldt County’s first lettered supervisor…God forbid.
The liberal community has always had excellent candidates compared to today’s waitress, auctioneer, Realtor, and a Garberville radio host all in lockstep to lay the groundwork for the next housing bubble and another toxic industry on our bay.
April 22, 2014 at 9:29 am
Silence D. Good
Hey All, Silence here,and here in the Wilamut Valley I watch the sky all the time and I must say I fully agree with Anonymous the con trails are real and they go from long straight lines and then spread out over hours and the jets just repeat the pattern line after line and then spreading completely across a clear blue sky And then it rains by that evening its extemely obvious if you just look up and watch, though most people are consumned in the rat race and don,t have the time to watch the day time sky let alone ufo”s inthe night sky Praise Jah
April 22, 2014 at 9:35 am
Silence D. Good
Ps Jesus said, see with your Heart, not your mind, I say I believe if your Heart is Trully Open, your mind has No choice but to Be ,” Love All, its a psychic meltdown” quoted of an Angel
April 22, 2014 at 9:43 am
Silence D. Good
Suzy, thanks for the Carlos quote and every other word you share from Your Heart ,” I like your style!” The Cowboy from the Big Lebowski
April 22, 2014 at 10:29 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
L.A. County Sheriffs indited on corruption last January and one of their headquarters was named Twin Towers.
Hollywood Hit Men could have also done it.
Out of Africa staring Michael Jackson, Elvis and Madonna.
CIA hack framing Hollywood
Who knows?
Another Hitchcock mystery I suppose.
Who done it?
Beasty Boys & Gerry Garcia may have been framed…
SAVE THE TREES people got to have their backs.
April 22, 2014 at 11:00 am
suzy blah blah
@ Silence D –“what the fuck you talkin’ about?”
April 22, 2014 at 11:30 am
Eric Kirk
(sigh)
April 22, 2014 at 3:16 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
“Dzhhhhh”
April 22, 2014 at 3:38 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Mark Edwards esq. Slime Ball of the century. Having sex with minors. His under aged client who severed her spine in a car accident 1981 and having them all lying in the courtroom to win millions. His client who got the loot dies of a heroin overdose partly due to genetic default. Did someone say “Blowjob”
Innocent Women “Girls” Hack Framed by a “Slime Ball”
Attorneys know it all but do nothing about it.
Doctors… Greatest writers of fiction to walk the face of the earth
Disgusted to say the least. No one does a thing about it. Not even the Po! Po!
They all want the loot and do anything to keep it. Lies! Lies! Lies!
Sickos!
Straight MURDER!
April 22, 2014 at 3:53 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Assholes blamed an innocent girl and he knew it was all lies. Psychopath has been trying to murder the person they framed for decades. Would not doubt somehow Kristens loot got invested into Wind Power or Big Pharma. Kristen told me never to trust that Slime Ball and she saved my life. My friends had my back but the cops exploited a girl in a wheelchair and never did the investigation to help her out of the mess even after being told he had them all lying. Now the guy is a law school professor and commander of San Diego Sheriffs association. He sucks dog dicks!
Balk! Balk! Balk!
Chicken Shits, Rule the world!
April 22, 2014 at 3:56 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Reward! Wheres the loot? Kristen Blythe Garcia four civil cases 1982-1984 San Diego, CA Broke as a joke! Just the way they like it.
Patriot Act is a scam!
Scam of the century!
April 22, 2014 at 6:01 pm
Anonymous
“I’ve been watching the skies since the early 70′s and in my observation the only thing that has changed about contrails is that there are more of them…because there is more air travel. ”
You’re full of shit. You are totally full of complete shit. That’s just what it is with you. Do you know what nobody was saying in 1995? “The sky’s a big grid of contrails again this week.” Are you watching the sky? Do you live in Humboldt County? Today, tuesday of april 27th, was very nice. The sky was full of natural, billowing clouds! Not a bunch of whispy fragments of dissipated “contrails”, which is becoming more common than not, as far as cloud presence is concerned.
April 22, 2014 at 11:09 pm
Anonymous
Yes, I’m watching the sky, and I was watching it in 1995, 1985, and 1975. Were you? I’m guessing you weren’t even born in 1975. Yes, there were fewer contrails back then, and there are more now, because there is a lot more air travel. I have seen them gradually increase as the number of flights has gradually increased.
The contrails themselves behave the same as they ever did — when the air at whatever altitude they’re at is nearly saturated, they persist, when it’s dry, they evaporate quickly. When the air up there is relatively still, they stay well defined, when it’s gusty the wind breaks them up into “whispy fragments.” And yes, given the right atmospheric conditions they can and d combine and spread to cause cirrus clouds, which is not the least bit surprising, because contrails are made up of tiny ice crystals, and that’s also what a cirrus cloud is made up of — tiny ice crystals..
There is nothing the least bit new or mysterious about any of this — except to the aggressively ignorant committed conspiracy theorists who spend countless hours speculating about far-fetched scenarios, but somehow never bother to take the time to learn the basic facts of physics and meteorology that easily explain the phenomena they are seeing. :
April 22, 2014 at 11:23 pm
Anonymous
More flights = more contrails.
April 23, 2014 at 3:06 am
suzy blah blah
the con trails are real and they go from long straight lines and then spread out over hours and the jets just repeat the pattern line after line and then spreading completely across a clear blue sky And then it rains by that evening its extemely obvious if you just look up and watch, though most people are consumned in the rat race and don,t have the time to watch the day time sky let alone ufo”s inthe night sky
-exactly right. Many of us have seen this pattern for several years now. It is a very VERY REAL phenomenon, known to those of us with a highly developed awareness of Nature. Thing is, not many people are even aware of the land, water, air, and sunlight surrounding them today. To them it’s something they read about in a textbook. And that’s the crux of the problem. The separation by society of people from Nature. Starting at an early age. It’s a prerequisite for the preparation for slavery to begin. Get them away from Nature. The land is something to leave behind for school or work.
As you said, the people get stuck in the rat race. They become split apart from Nature. They now are loose egos, formed out of a tickytacky. “The falcon is out of touch with the falconer. Things fall apart”. Detached from their source. with no bearings, lost in an ocean of cheap plastic gadgetry, they look for answers and of course they believe what the “experts” tell them. They don’t know any other way. They are the True Believers. They continue to absorb the lie told them daily. Many are trained to perpetuate the lie and the beat goes on …
Believing the culture’s crap is the beginning. As children they become totally out of touch with Nature. Their lives are programed for them in school. The choices they are given are no choices at all. The difference between tweedledee and dum is the program. Inevitably and invariably they fall into the habit of following culture’s chintzy talisman. Bright and shiny. Follow the bouncing ball. So they jump from the house to the car to the job to the bar to the tv to the bed and then do it all over again the next day. Monotonous routines and habits that are nearly impossible to break once they are embedded in the mind. So what we have as a result is a population of addicts. Stuck like glue to the crap they are sold by the culture. Unable to do without it. Believing the lies told to them by the society.
The fundamental lie is that the culture is there to “help” them. “Just follow the rules and drink the koolaide”. It’s no surprise that the sky is glanced at for a only a few seconds a week at the most by these cloned manikins. And when they do take a peek what they see is framed by the illusion they have been inaugurated into. So if it happens as it will at times that they should become curious, they get their info from maps and charts on the web. Hello!?!
They think that’s the way it’s done because since the beginning of their life they’ve been told so. It’s so ingrained in the culture that it seems to most people that it’s the normal way to understand life. The frame they see the universe through is bolted to their heads at an early age. It begins in the schools at the elementary school level. This is where they start abusing and warping innocent children. They order them around. They align them and bully them until the kids think, “that’s life, this is the way it is”. The Spirit is broken and they have them in their game for life. So afraid to encounter their own mind these cardboard excuses for a real humans, who were at an early age bright and open minded children, keep themselves running away from the Truth their whole lives. This isn’t a anomaly, i’m talking about your average normal citizen on the road any day. The 99%. The walking dead. And off course these somnambulists leave a trail of environmental DIEstruction in their wake. Just look up at the sky.
April 23, 2014 at 3:39 am
suzy blah blah
don,t have the time to watch the day time sky let alone ufo”s inthe night sky
-i feel that the ufo sitings are an attempt to heal the same split in the mind of the human that i mentioned above –the huge gap between the ego and Nature. To bridge the gap, or to experience the observation of “ufo” phenomena, from my experience, takes a quality of contemplation rarely achieved. For me it involved a transfer of information by a method that by us might be called telepathic, yet that’s a crude interpretation of what happened. From my experience it’s been a direct knowing, but oddly, not a knowing “in time”. Or at least not in “normal” time. Hard to explain but it’s not like observing an airplane or “normal” object. To observe such things as flying saucers etc. one has to be abruptly shaken out of habitual routine.
April 23, 2014 at 4:07 am
suzy blah blah
“Things are real only after one has learned to agree on their realness.”
Carlos Castaneda
.
April 23, 2014 at 4:08 am
suzy blah blah
-and to think they think they can own “the wild”. Arrrg!:
“The U.N. Biodiverstiy Plan with its draconian re-wilding campaign is in full swing”
April 23, 2014 at 7:16 am
Eric Kirk
The truth is out there. It’s a vicious circle man!
April 23, 2014 at 7:30 am
Mitch
What really disappoints me is that our government knows how to fill the sky with clouds and yet, to keep their operations secret from all but a few hundred brilliantly clever folks, they don’t use this capability to solve the drought. I guess *they* seek to hold this technology in reserve, in case they need to rain on an enemy’s parade. But I’d think the Big Ag companies now suffering would send the Koch Brothers an email, the Koch Brothers would forward it to the JewMasons, and the rains would come.
I’ve seen hundreds of UFOs myself. Sometimes, I eventually identify the flying object, but mostly they remain unidentified, at least to me. Being detached from nature, I’ve never carved them a landing site in my mashed potatoes. (Thank you, Mr. Quayle.)
April 23, 2014 at 7:42 am
Eric Kirk
Personally, I think what they’re doing of fluoridating the air. They already control the minds in the urban areas, but this is their way of getting to the people with their own wells or the rivers. Fortunately I have my bottle of vinegar to protect me!
April 23, 2014 at 10:00 am
suzy blah blah
use this capability to solve the drought
-they created the drought –duh.
*and if you’re wondering who “they” are, check the mirror for a clue next time your on the mall.
Fortunately I have my bottle of vinegar to protect me!
-good luck with that one at the karaoke stand-up comic show.
April 23, 2014 at 11:23 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
My dogs work is barking at the Chem trail jets. He watches the sky all day and into the night for them. He loves the UFO and the night stars but hates the chem trail jets. Why? Because the Crows and the Ravens, the messengers, told him they are bad news. He is trying to help all of us by bringing our awareness to the problem. They are not spewing vitamins from their fuel engine. Just like the air in L.A. is toxic so are they. They will stop at nothing to try and hack from the cannabis users and poison heir bodies with death wishes. They want to win! My dog says they got to go away. He protects me from harm and they are harmful to all concerned.
Hit them with The Clean Water Act! BOOM! Gold Rush is on but this time its the water everyone is after.
April 23, 2014 at 11:28 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Raw Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar to help alkalize your body hopefully stopping you from getting cancer. Fluoridating the water in Southern California has been going on for decades.
April 23, 2014 at 11:32 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Mark Edwards, esq. is a Nazi! Gag me with a spoon! Tyrants! Hiding in Mexico!
April 23, 2014 at 12:03 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Jeanette Piranio lied as she already had a broken arm and road rash on her face from flying down Austen Drive on Ludes. She showed up to school the week before the accident with her arm in a sling. I asked her what happened and she told me she was high on ludes she got from a guy named Alex and crashed on her bike while tripping on ludes. The CHP got his story wrong for one.
The bitches lied and Mark knew it. Slime Ball had everyone lying in the courtroom.
Read the accident report. The witness told the officer it looked like the V.W. was flipping a u turn going 70 mph. I also heard Kristen grabbed the wheel. She may have dont that after seeing someone she knew passing on the way to the party. Apparently, the car Jeanette was in had their brights on. Pip swerved and hit the curb. Not to mention the driver of car two was only fifteen if that. She was an unlicensed driver.
April 23, 2014 at 12:07 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Rumor has it they found a bag of weed at the scene of the accident. Not sure who’s car the weed was in but no one wanted to fess up to where it came from. Chicken Shits tried to blame people who had nothing to do with it to cover their own asses.
April 23, 2014 at 12:14 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Apparently, Kristen lied in her depo so Mark Edwards wanted all the girls to lie in court to get that money. I was also told Kristen gave him a blowjob and Stacy went to his room with him during the trials. They were all drunk and charging alcohol to his room tab during the trials to boot.
Kristen was a foster child because her mom and dad were heroin addicts. She hated her foster home. She hated Mark Edwards her attorney, too. She called him a slime ball and would spit on the floor whenever she spoke of him. Then she would start moaning and upchucking. She hated his guts and was terrified of him.
April 23, 2014 at 12:16 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Big guys get the loot and the women get burned. Vicious Cycle is right! Oppressing the women so they never win. Shit is getting old!
April 23, 2014 at 12:38 pm
suzy blah blah
-that’s some pretty good shit, Bill. Not the least of which is the little known facts and sordid details. Can you tell us more?
April 23, 2014 at 1:09 pm
olmanriver
‘The best way to proceed in the teaching of global warming is to consider the effects of the ozone depletion toward the problems of rising CO-2 gases in the atmosphere. Most people have learned the concentration of CO-2 is rising in the atmosphere and many all too quickly think this is only due to more fossil fuels being burned. Those that jump to that all too simple conclusions make a fatal mistake in logic.
The CO-2 concentration is rising in the atmosphere because of increasing damage to the largest CO-2 absorption sink on the planet. The prime CO-2 absorption sink on the planet is the ocean itself and the phytoplankton of the oceans and it is extremely sensitive to UV-b radiation that has increased due to the ozone’s depletion. The effect is very serious near the ozone hole areas, as the ocean surface temperature and phytoplankon is most damaged there and lends to higher concentrations of CO-2 levels and less reflective clouds that speeds up the polar ice melting.
The temperature of the oceans surface in these polar regions determines how much CO-2 can be absorbed into the oceans and sequestered there for long periods of time. The phytoplankton directly uses CO-2 and carbon products from this fall to the ocean’s floor and removes carbon from the atmosphere in the very long term. When UV-b damages the phytoplankton this critical reflective cloud forming effect is damaged and the ocean’s surface temperature rises in these cold polar oceans and the CO-2 absorption is reduced raising the entire planets air concentration of CO-2. The UV-b also damages the phytoplankton that directly converts CO-2 into oxygen and deposits carbon on the ocean floor. This is the dominant effect that is causing the rise of CO-2 in the atmosphere.
Plankton contribute toward dimethylsulfide (DMS) releases from the ocean and is essential in the global sulfur cycle. When UV damages the plankton growth it also lowers the DMS emissions from the oceans. The DMS emissions of the oceans govern the oceans cloud cover that reflects heat back into space and this process regulates the planet’s temperature. It is the reduction of DMS emissions that is the prime factor for why global warming and climate changes are happening. DMS / DMSO is essential for the Global Sulfur Cycle that some people describe as a “Gaia” system of regulation. DMSO is a hygroscopic gas that induces clouds to form and cool the oceans.
The ozone depletion is being caused by CFC things like Freon contributing Cl to destroy the ozone layer. This is the prime cause of the rise in CO-2 in the atmosphere and its contribution to global warming. It is the synergistic effects of the Cl causing a rise in UV-b that damages the phytoplankton, which is the prime cause of the global warming effects.
It was this type synergist effect of radiation that set off my deeper looking into if other effects like this existed from ozone depletion effects and there was another effect. This effect was associated with the very high HF loses from the Oak Ridge processes and coal emissions. HF is hygroscopic and will attach to water vapor, which is lighter than air, so it floats.
HF can stay suspended in the atmosphere with water vapor for long periods of time, whereupon, it will be affected by UV radiation. The UV radiation will ionize some of the fluorine atoms, which will result in its attachment to the most prevalent gas, nitrogen. Then forming the compound NFO. This compound acts much like the Freon inert factor for injecting chlorine into the ozone region except the NFx effect injected fluorine into the upper atmosphere and methane like compounds.
This discovery lead to another of the Global Warming factor synergism connected to the rise of UV radiation from the ozone depletion. There are three principle mechanisms that dominate global warming via the UV relationship. One is the DNA damage to the ocean’s plankton and its ability to process CO2 and add DMS. Two is the radiolysis of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, in example: (C-H)6 + UV –> CH4 + C2H2 + 3CO2. Three is the HF being decomposed by UV to form the NFO and the NFx-methane injection process.
When I found these simple cause and effect relationships per UV that dominated global warming, I recommended the end of the production of Freon and the US and …… companies like DuPont concurred due to huge damage factors and extreme fault liabilities. This ban was supported to cut the UV factors and curb the GW effects due to UV, DMS, CO2, and HF. This was the beginning of a long set of secretive DOE operations to change the long term outcomes of Ozone Depletion effects tied to Global Warming. ‘
This quote is from Jim Phelps, who claims to have come up with the concept of “Air Pharmacology” or chemtrails as a remediation of the damage done to the ozone and upper layers of the atmosphere, due, in part to HF releases from industry. He describes the generation 1 and 2 chemtrail formulas (using aluminum and barium formulas), generation 3 with titanium for “pulling” HF from the sky. Eric was very close, fluoride in the air indeed. Assuming this makes it past moderation, I will follow with one more long quote from the DOEWATCH site.
April 23, 2014 at 1:10 pm
olmanriver
‘So, this criteria set up the basic three concepts for “chemtrails.” Barium went into popular use with its lofting time and ionization to set up electromagnetic wave ducting. All these type metals methods became the “Generation 1” methods of “chemtrail” making to rain out the HF and to reflect some of the IR radiation using Mie Scattering for IR.
Since commercial jet planes were the lowest cost method to get the global warming shield into place, the long range plan, or “Generation 2” methods, was the idea of using the fuel itself and the jet engines design parameters to make water vapor in dense quantities. The goal of the Generation 2 methods required a decade to get into place because it involved changes in jet engine designs and the jet fuels. The dense water vapor seeded into the upper atmosphere would begin to fall and with these falls trigger rainfall in lower cloud systems, thus removing HF from the air. Normal cirrus clouds are formed by natural processes and tend to just sublime back into just vapor. Clouds seeded by chemtrail jet planes form the heavy particles that fall and don’t perform as Cirrus clouds.
In the 90’s, the EPA was forcing the oil refineries to button up leaks that were causing carcinogen health problems in the communities around them. These improvements resulted in process changes like total hydrogen management, which raised the hydrogen levels in jet fuels and the water vapor they created. Improvements even added hydrogen to jet fuels in the refinery process to lower the sulfur content and lower the jet fuels SOx release problems. Processes began to use more catalysts to make use of the heavies. The resultant modern jet fuels are kerosene based rather than the naptha base of years before. This wetting down of the fuels with hydrogen produces much more water vapor that shows up as clouds that tend to fall and seed rain or more low level clouds. These are the new JP-8 based jet fuels in use today.
The jet engines were redesigned into high by-pass designs like the GE-90 systems, which have high compression effects to produce large water particles. The redesigns also burn the fuel more efficiently leaving less unburned hydrocarbons that more easily get into the upper atmosphere from jets. The 90’s were a period of much change for jets and oil companies and it was all about adapting to the discovery of how HF interacted with hydrocarbon releases.
With the implementation of Generation 2 methods using jets around the globe, the chemtrail methods of cloud making have begun to change the amount of global warming. They have also modified rainfall patterns making some places more wet and others drier. They have also rained down more of the poison HF and acid rain that liberate toxic metals from the soils and into the food and water chain. Jet methods also have taken much of the acid rain [Carbonic HCO3, Sulfuric H2SO4, Hydrochloric HCl, Hydrogen Fluoride HF] off the oceans and promoted more CO-2 absorption by the plankton, which is the largest CO-2 sink on the planet. All these efforts aim at GW reduction in several ways at once. ‘
April 23, 2014 at 1:45 pm
Just Watchin
Forest Queen gets banned, and this dickhead mr. bill continues to post. SMFH.
April 23, 2014 at 1:46 pm
Mitch
-they created the drought –duh.
I’m obviously way too behind on the latest conspiracies to be of use here. Or at least I need to pretend to be to avoid blowing my cover and losing my millions of ounces of gold.
Sorry.
April 23, 2014 at 4:50 pm
Anonymous
“I’m guessing you weren’t even born in 1975. Yes, there were fewer contrails back then, and there are more now, because there is a lot more air travel. I have seen them gradually increase as the number of flights has gradually increased.”
You’re wrong. Not only that, but you’re so full of shit now you’re over capacity. It’s like shit is freeflowing out of you. But whatever, that’s for you to deal with. I don’t care about barium or aluminum or what some website is or isn’t saying about “chemtrails”, but the past five years alone has seen a very dramatic increase in “chemtrails” right over your head, assuming you live in Humboldt. It’s amazing that the whole aviation industry has so dramatically changed, isn’t it? Meanwhile eric ridicules some tinfoil story about them rather than address the fact of them. It’s pretty friggin important. It has never been normal for the entire sky over the eureka/arcata/mckinleyville area to be completely manufactured cloudcover for several days of every week, sometimes for months in a row. You can watch that happen if you simply…watch it happen, dumbasses. Say whatever you want about it, but it’s right there over your head. I don’t know what the hell it’s all about, but it’s happening. Sleep on, daydreamers…
April 23, 2014 at 6:27 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I heard of Kristens death on the eleven o clock news the evening she apparently died that morning. The news reported “A paraplegic died this morning in a fire in Imperial Beach” … My heart sinks as I wait for the name. Then they go on to announce her name “Kristen Garcia”
I was told by her sister she left a candle by her beside on a plastic table and she died of smoke inhalation. Now I am told by others she died of a heroin overdose. Not sure what really happened to my friend. They covered it up “for the children” I dont know but the news lies. A girl named Debbie and Kristens sister both know Kristen was having sex with her attorney. They were there in the room as I am told. Kristen told me she gave Mark Edwards a blow job and was having sex with him. By the time she turned eighteen she wanted nothing to do with him. Mark got Kristen emancipated after they started having sex. Heather her sister told me a few years ago Kristen had meth and Valium in her system when she died. I had not see my friend in years before she died. Her sister tells me “They had her on so many downers that she resorted to the meth to lift her spirits up” Kristen had two children. She did not stop the drugs while she was pregnant. She was trading pills for cannabis because she always told me the cannabis was the only thing that helped her. She wanted the cannabis to be legal. She wanted to find a cure for the severed spine. Kristen wanted to walk again. Mark got her a place in Ocean Beach on Muir ave. She lived next door to a meth head and another dealer lived on the corner. She was set up.
All that loot and he got her a place in Meth Hell.
I told the Sheriff in Lemon Grove, Ca in 1983 that they lied. I told the CHP Mr. Gagnon Vista, CA in 1983 Mark had them all lying and he was having sex with the girls during the trials. I told my high school counselor and the principal they lied same day I told the sheriff. No one did a thing about it because they all thought Kristen would be taken care of with the money. One girl who was at the trials mom was a Child development teacher at our school. Kristens foster mom Yvonne was a shit starter and in for the money. Mark was trying to protect the State Foster Care program and so was the CHP.
I tried to get Kristen to hire a caregiver and told her I would take care of her forever. I wanted her to call Mark Edwards and set this up but she told me she was afraid of him and spit on the floor and squealed about the blow job.
She told me ” never trust him and that she hated his guts” I tried to get her away from Mike Wilson but she told me “no Mike is going to wipe my ass”
Mike is the after of her first daughter. Not sure who the true father is of her son who I did not find out about till after she passed away. He had already been taken to Hawaii by the time she died in 1994.
Bill the CIA guy came into my life six months before Kristen died. Now Bill tells me Gerry Monkhouse flew Kristen son to Hawaii.
The FBI raided my x sisters business a few years ago apparently due to four million dollars Gerry loaned to them. The insurance company she worked for Westland Insurance went bankcrupt from embezzling its clients money. Bill and Gerry were both insured with Westland insurance and she was an underwriter for them. The other sister who introduced me to Bill was also working for both Gerry and Bill. She is now married to Gerry Monkhouse. SHADY to say the least. Bill and Gerry were talking about cutting down trees at dinner often and I would always tell them there not cutting any trees. They would speak often about the Chinaco Winds. I had no idea back then what was going on. Once before Kristen died I mentioned her loot and Bill says “oh we are going to have to take you deep sea fishing” They all started laughing. Bill says Kelly got Kristen money. Not sure what or who got it. I think the CIA is setting or trying to set everyone up. Heather and Debbie both admit Kristen and Stacy were having sex with Mark during the trials. Debbie son died of a brain tumor in 2008. He was eighteen. Another Sheriff who knew some of this also died of a brain tumor after Mark Edwards joined on as Commander of San Diego Sheriffs association. Kristen told me NEVER TO TRUST THAT Slime Ball! OBFUSCATING is what he has been doing!
April 23, 2014 at 6:36 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
When I went to her funeral I asked her sister what is going on with Kristen money. Her sister told me “I am getting it” At one point when Kristen and I were eighteen she told me she put her money in my name. Now Heater tells me after the funeral Mark told her “Kristen never came back in and changed the paperwork” I asked Heather since when. Heather says since she was eighteen” She also tells me the money was in an annuity. Kristen never got the money she only got interest off it. Mark controlled it all. She told me she was investing in research for a severed spine and that she wanted cannabis to be legal. I wanted to adopt her son but did not have any money to fight these people. Dillon was already in Hawaii with Kristen mom and her sister when she died. I was so bummed and sad about it all. I wanted her son but like Kristen told me. Never to trust that Slime Ball. Everyone is afraid of him. He set this all up.
Debbie and I always just wanted to get that Slime Ball for what he did to our friends…
Never giving up!
April 23, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
May Be Eric keeps the vinegar because he wants to be on the side of the pussies and the beavers because he knows we are the winning team. The beaver will clean up the water sheds and the pussies will save the trees. He does not want to be on the loosing team of slime balls and cocks!
April 23, 2014 at 7:14 pm
suzy blah blah
-it sounds like a terrible tragedy. I’m sorry about your friend Kristen. I hope that the law of karma will finally give the slime ball what he deserves. The bastard. I wish i could help. Blessings.
April 23, 2014 at 8:41 pm
suzy blah blah
thanks omar
April 23, 2014 at 9:30 pm
Anonymous
That’s quite a tale “olmanriver,” with plenty of detail, lacking only in that there isn’t a shred of evidence that any aluminum, barium, or titanium is being spread by planes’ contrails / “chemtrails.” But to True Believer types with laughably weak critical thinking skills, the complete lack of evidence apparently isn’t a problem. So, you know, have fun with it I guess.
Meanwhile light blue anonymous thinks several days in a row of cloudcover is unusual for Eureka/Arcata/McKinleyville. LOL! Well of course Anon qualifies that by calling it “manufactured” cloud cover, but that’s begging the question — putting forth a premise that it’s “manufactured” and then building an argument on that premise, and then using that argument to reach a conclusion that it’s “manufactured.” Perfectly circular logic.
Meanwhile, I live in Humboldt and have for many years and look at the same skies, and I see contrails behaving the same way they always have. Yes, there are more of them. Not dramatically so, but of course I’m not obsessed with them because there’s no evidence whatsoever that they are anything other than the ice crystals they’ve always been.
Let me know if you chemtrailees ever get tired of your endless online mutual masturbation fiesta and decide to actually go up and take samples of these “chemtrails.” Several decades into this “incredibly important” story none of you have ever bothered to test your theories in the simplest, most straightforward way possible — if you think there’s something in there other than ice crystals, then rent a plane, hire a scientist, take samples and have them analyzed. Until then it’s all just a bunch of groundless speculation.
April 23, 2014 at 10:14 pm
Eric Kirk
Anonymous 9:30 – there are lessons in life I’ve learned about what has meaning and what is pointless. And I can tell you that there is nothing more pointless than arguing with someone about contrails. In fact, it is hard to imagine a bigger waste of your time.
April 23, 2014 at 10:31 pm
Anonymous
LOL! You’re right of course, and thanks for the reminder.
April 24, 2014 at 6:20 pm
Anonymous
Eric, have you noticed the change in air traffic and contrail behavior? the other anon says,
“Meanwhile light blue anonymous thinks several days in a row of cloudcover is unusual for Eureka/Arcata/McKinleyville. LOL! Well of course Anon qualifies that by calling it “manufactured” cloud cover, but that’s begging the question — putting forth a premise that it’s “manufactured” and then building an argument on that premise, and then using that argument to reach a conclusion that it’s “manufactured.” Perfectly circular logic.”
It’s not cloudcover. Whether or not it’s also creating mist, and whether or not the mist is of significantly greater volume than it, It’s still airplane exhaust. It’s chemicals, like when your car’s exhaust spews invisible carbon monoxide creating a greater volume of visible steam around it. It’s a chemical reaction. If not for those airplanes leaving those chemical contrails, the sky would be completely cloudless. Instead, a multitude of high altitude airplanes periodically flies consistently irregular patterns en masse over the eureka/arcata/mckinleyvile area, leaving in their wake contrails that dissipate into a distinctly patterned haze, and the sky appears to be “partly cloudy”, and the weather is even reported as such. What’s more, there’s suddenly more planes and they’re leaving more contrails more often. Not just an increase in high altitutude airplane presence, but also the particular contrails they leave, and those contrails’ behavior within the entire day’s sky, sometimes for days at a time. That’s happening way more right now than it was five years ago. It’s happening more right now than it was three years ago, I’m just as certain of that, by way of watching the sky every day. It’s pretty dang easy to do, especially if you’re genuinely interested in the actual world around you. I have no want or reason to bullshit about it, and I don’t understand the fear and embarrassment in realistically addressing it. It’s like being afraid to tell a young child that their parents put their gifts under the Christmas tree at night. Eric and anon 9:30 are among children who just can’t handle the conversation.
April 24, 2014 at 8:23 pm
Eric Kirk
I’d rather talk about Area 51. I have it on good word that the aliens there love strawberry yogurt!
April 25, 2014 at 12:30 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
My dog was not barking at Chem Trail jets till sometime after the earthquake in Japan a few years back. It was the Summer of 2011 when he started this work against the chem trails. Before that he was just a Blue Healer born at the Hog Farm on Fathers Day. Now he patrols the sky. He never barks at Aliens or Stars or even just planes or choppers. He could not have seen the jets right after the earthquake in Japan due to the months of Rain and Haze we had in Mendocino. The jets are not only flying in masses over Humboldt its happening over the whole Emerald Triangle. Not as many flying over Sonoma County either. It seemed strange to have all that rain for months on end after the nuclear fallout in 2011.
Speaking of Area 51 Bill and Gerry ofter fly over to Mohave to do business. Gerry Monkhouse put up some of those wind turbines in Livermore, CA and Bill was his contractor. Bill met Gerry in Novato at one point as he was a swimming pool contractor. Next he went to work for Gerry as a Wind Power Contractor. Bill and his brother went to college in Santa Barbara. His father was in the U.S. Air Force. He was stationed in Japan for some years. He may have went to the school for CIA there in Santa Barbara.
These Tyrants & Slime Balls use informants to get their way so once again beware of the psychopath abusers of women who lerk in the hills of the Triangle. Let out of Federal prison and dictating the Cannabis Trade. There are cameras in the trees up there. The cameras look like little nails shot into the trees and not very easy to spot. They have a little wire wrapped around the stem and a very small lense at the tip. Feels like somebodies watching you? They are. Trust you gut.
Fishy that Judi got bombed in 1990, then Bill and Gerry head South. I met Bill the first time around 1991 at a Baptism for my nephew. He was invited by my sister in law who was his receptionist. I got deathly ill at that party and even my gut instinct questioned him being there. I did not trust him and wondered if I had been poisoned. Next time I meet him my sister in law called me on her birthday to see if I would go on a double date with her and some friends. It was Bill and Gerry who show up at my house.
Jackie O died the same year as Kristen. Pretty sure Kristen may have been friends with the nephew of Hitchcock who is the son of JFK.
I n 1999 JFK Jr. plane goes down and I question Bill about having the same Saratoga. Bill tells me Yes it is the same plane and there were not many of them made. Bill flies up to Sonoma County airport in his Saratoga to visit me for the day at the end of August. I have this life threatening attack on Sept. 2nd 1999. Never got nothing from Kristen attorney the Slime Ball about her estate and he did not show up at her funeral. A letter came in the mail for me to my brothers home about six months after Kristen died. I never got the letter because my brothers house is ripped off and someone stole his prize bull dog. A few weeks after my brothers home is ripped off in 1995 someone comes back and poisoned his female bull dog. The message here is “we got your prize and poisoned the bitch” Who Done it? I met the Hitchcock kid in 1997 a few years after Kristen passed away. All I can hope for is that Kristen did get some relief from the heroin if she was taking it. After all the years of meth abuse she likely needed the drug to pass with a little dignity and quality of life.
Several friends told me Bill is an asshole. Pretty sure he is CIA and setting people up with the Slime Ball. Maybe they just wanted to get the Slime Ball. Not sure but Bill has a good side and a bad side like most people do. The comments he gave to me helped to save my life in many respects. It seems like he is trying to help me some of the time.
Another clue is that I found out not long ago that Kristens doctor was a guy I also met in 1996 on Thanksgiving. He is the Hitchcock kids best friend. Kristen loved Madonna and The kid was her lover for a time while they went to college in Hollywood.
Seems like the CIA and the Kennedy Family have been going at it for decades.
It would be great to find a attorney that had some balls to help me figure this shit out. I would love to help her kids. So confused and stressed out about it all. Kristen would never want to cut trees for GREED! We are both Wood Snakes. I love her forever! She never wanted her mom to get that money. I am sure she did not want her mom raising her son either. She wants her kids to go to college. I want my daughter and grandchildren to get some peace as well. It been a long haul for all of us.
April 25, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Gag orders really put a damper on things!
April 25, 2014 at 1:14 pm
suzy blah blah
I don’t understand the fear and embarrassment in realistically addressing it.
-excellent observation — “embarrassment” — so true. That’s why they get nervous about the subject and can only offer stale jokes –area 51, vinegar, tinfoil, etc. in response. Yet somewhere below their threshold of consciousness abides that truth. The truth. I laid out the dynamic causing the source of the denial that obscures their view above. The main points being –sickculture/ratrace/addiction.
And now add embarrassment. Very good.
The apathy itself is a threat to us because by putting their head in the sand and looking the other way and focusing on non-issues like local elections etc. they’re promoting an aggressive attack against Nature and the Land. There is no doubt about it.
April 25, 2014 at 1:20 pm
suzy blah blah
It would be great to find a attorney that had some balls to help me figure this shit out.
-unfortunately for most of them it’s all about the bottom line $$$. You may have to investigate this yourself to get at the real truth of the matter. Maybe google could help. I don’t know … but i wish you the best in getting to the bottom of the mystery. Blessings.
April 25, 2014 at 1:21 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Pretty sure the “Slime Ball” had our sheriff convinced I was some crazy lady on crack. LOL
Oh ya, Basler was likely a Hit Man for the CIA who sprung up after Hitchcock kid came to visit Willits.
Basler was the likely Jenner Beach shooter. Its The Christians! Get it! MESSAGES and no one talking.
Dorner was on a roll.
April 25, 2014 at 1:30 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
See… the “Slime Ball” got those Hollywood kids by the balls and he is pissed off that the sheriff was seeing the light. The man is a true psychopath! A judge! Law School professor! Commander of S.D. Sheriff, Gross! OMG that photo make me want to puke and die!
Notice how the guy on a roll from Oregon just got out of jail. He was sent back to finish the work of Basler. Bill told me he had all his guns up in Oregon a few years back. Now him and Gerry hide in Baja along with all their assets that they sold off when the shit hit the fan. Gerry keeps his loot in off shore accounts. Likely where Kristen loot went. Black Hole!
Sandy Hook shooting never happened. Its all messages. CIA and Hollywood trying to get their point across. None of it is real!
April 25, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Kristen and Pip were drunk and I was also told they had cocaine in their systems. Pip died in that car accident. We were sixteen. He took advantage of all the girls. They may have blamed me as the night of the accident they tried to blame my aunt for the cannabis. Debbie was at the hospital and heard what was going on. I knew my aunt had nothing to do with the cannabis. Kristen sued the county roads, the liquor store, and two of the girls homeowner insurance. I need to get those civil cases but broke as a joke. They cut me off and have no income at all even thou I am disabled. No disability for three years. I lost it after a drunk cowboy dropped me on my head the Mothers Day 2011. I just found Kristens sister and kids on Facebook that day. They are trying to frame innocent people and the slime ball knows I am not involved. He is a lian sack of shit just like all of them. Murders!
April 25, 2014 at 1:39 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I was at a party at a ranch in Willits. Doug Goss just left the party ten minutes before I got dropped on my head. Luck to be alive! I had just told him I found my friends sister and that if cannabis was legal Kristen would still be alive. He left and next I was at the hospital. Howard Hospital lied on the report and refused to give me pain meds.
Next the nephew of the cowboy tells me I am a Pussy for going to the hospital. It called corruption!
April 25, 2014 at 1:59 pm
suzy blah blah
the “Slime Ball” had our sheriff convinced I was some crazy lady on crack. LOL
-bastard. I think the only way to catch this slippery sleaze bag is to find out what his latest scam is and set up a decoy to blow his cover.
April 25, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Just Watchin
Mr Bill comes across like someone with a fifth grade education. His admission that he was dropped on his head might explain a lot. Either way, he sounds like a real dipstick.
April 25, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Assume what you like. The cowboy was trying to tell everyone he was trying to pick me up, throw me over his shoulder and spank me. He was actually doing the move of Branding Cattle. He is a drunk! No excuse for violence or beating up on anyone, period. Beating up on women and disable people is not acceptable. Our system is corrupt. Our criminal justice system is corrupt as well. If you think I am a dip stick your a fool. Corruption is everywhere. The guy used to catch live rattlesnakes and throw them at his sister. He is the dip stick and your a fool. Just Watching,,, my ass
Ya the Slime Ball is going to get his karma no doubt. Would not surprise me if Kristen kids filed a wrongful death lawsuit. He may be more careful now that he is holding such power and got away with his scam more than thirty years ago. Lip Service is what he uses as his ploy. He offers his ho plastic surgery to get his way. Stacy got a butt enlargement, lips and boobs. She was fifteen when the girls crashed and was spending the night with him in his room after Kristen gave him a blow job.
Never selling out on the loot. Nothing more important than our trees!
Kid and his friends got busted for being with Kristen before she died and now they are trying to find others. It is a vicious cycle. Watch out for the Aliens up the road as they are likely in on the vicious cycle of doom.
CIA may have got the loot and now just trying to catch more squid to bait their hooks with.
Would not doubt if the L.A. County Sheriffs indited for corruption last January were somehow linked to the Slime Ball. We will get him, no doubt. There are enough the of witnesses who know what he did.
The girls were at a party somewhere on Dictionary Hill. It was Monday Dec. 14th 1981. Someone said they were trying to protect a girl named Kim Stanley. May be the party was at her house or she was the one with the cocaine. Kristen and Pip ditched school that Monday. They called Debbie that morning to let her know they were ditching. Kristen said they went Christmas shopping in T.J. before they went to a park to drink beer with some people from our school. Many rumors going around. I know for a fact that Jeanette already had her arm in a sling the week prior to the accident. Her face already had road rash or abrasions. Truth is the CHP lied on his report and Jeanette lied about her injuries and who belonged to the apparent bag of weed. The CHP job was to protect the State. Kristens Foster Mom was also at the hospital. She was in it for the money. When Kristen got out of the hospital she went back to the foster home but not for long. I went to pick her up for school and one of the kids was eating corn out of his poop while taking a bath. He was a Prince form Iran and Yvonne the foster mom was no where to be found. It was the last straw. Kristen came to live with me. My back went out after carrying my friend up flights of stairs as there were no wheelchair ramp requirements back then. Many of us lost our backs carrying our friend about town. By the time I was seventeen my back was blown out. This was why I wanted Kristen to get a caregiver to help me take care of her. Mike and her sister Heather both blew their backs out caring for Kristen. Disabled people are getting burned still. We have a long way to go… to get to this Quality of life and pursuit to happiness they speak of in our constitution. One fucked up situation indeed.
April 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Truth is if you beat the shit out of a disabled person and they die from injuries sustained from the injuries your up for the death penalty.
Bruce Burton the last mayor of Willits is Satan. The Bi-Pass is the way to truck the wind turbines into our forests.
April 25, 2014 at 4:53 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
In China they grow cilantro around the prisons so after the beatings the prisoners eat cilantro to help uncoagulate their blood. Beatings cause blood stasis. Last Summer I was near death form coagulated blood and severe anemia. Go figure… Nazi Paradise…
April 25, 2014 at 5:16 pm
Just Watchin
I think the mystery is solved!! Facing a lifetime of dealing with Mr. Bill, Kristen made the only logical decision……suicide.
April 25, 2014 at 5:17 pm
Anonymous
“I’d rather talk about Area 51”
I’d rather talk about a lot of things as well, but let’s humor “chemtrails” for a minute. What do you notice, eric, regarding the phenomenon and what do you think about it?
April 25, 2014 at 6:01 pm
Eric Kirk
I see nothing in the sky that I didn’t see when I was five years old and learned about then that trails look differently and act differently based upon a number of atmospheric factors, including wind and humidity.
April 25, 2014 at 6:07 pm
Anonymous
So is it safe to say you’ve never really paid any attention?
April 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Anonymous
Same here. And there are plenty of historical photos that corroborate my memory that there is nothing new or unusual about persisting and spreading contrails which, given the right atmospheric conditions, can and do contribute to cloud formation. There are more contrails today than there were when I was a child, because there is more air travel. And despite what the “chemtrail” obsessives claim, I’ve seen the number grow gradually, tracking nicely with the gradual growth of air travel, not some sudden spike in recent years.
April 25, 2014 at 8:04 pm
Anonymous
I have notice there are many contrails in a grid pattern once or twice a month on average and only a tenth or less than that many normally.
April 25, 2014 at 10:54 pm
Eric Kirk
I don’t know what you mean by a “grid pattern.” I’ve seen something like that at Fleet Week when the Blue Devils were performing. But in all my years of backpacking and amateur astronomy, I haven’t seen anything that looked like a “grid” by my definition. Maybe the next time you see it you can get a photo and post it here? Preferably with a local landmark in the photo so we can see with our eyes that it is local.
April 26, 2014 at 1:13 am
Anonymous
The lines are evenly spaced and they cross to form a grid or checkerboard pattern. But my main point is that I see about twenty times as many contrails overhead on those occasions. I see this happen on average once a month Explain to me if you can why there are so many more at times. . .
April 26, 2014 at 6:17 am
Anonymous
Contrail “grids” explained:
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-grids-are-not-chemtrail-grids/
April 26, 2014 at 6:19 am
Anonymous
Why are there more contrails these days? Because there are more flights. Here’s a cool graphic showing 24 hours of flights over the United States, sped up to show it all in a minute and a half:
April 26, 2014 at 6:33 am
Anonymous
And here’s 24 hours of flights over the world:
April 26, 2014 at 7:05 am
Anonymous
Here’s a neat video showing how these “grids” appear — planes following established flight paths that intersect, form an “x.” Air movement in the upper atmosphere causes these “x” patterns to drift, then along come more planes on the original flight paths, leaving new lines and “x”es which then drift the same way, etc. Repeat for a few hours, now you’ve got a “grid” of contrails. Note the tower on the ground, which is obviously standing still, while the contrails in the sky move behind it:
April 26, 2014 at 7:16 am
Anonymous
In other words, all you need for a “grid” to form is two flight paths intersecting, plus wind, time, and the right atmospheric conditions. And it helps to be viewing it from the right angle.
By the way, the air is often moving at hundreds of miles per hour at that altitude, but generally not in the kind of gusty ways we experience at ground level with winds of those speeds. Rather, as you can see in the above video, the air is often moving quite consistently, as a mass.
So the intersecting contrails, and resulting “grids” can drift hundreds of miles more or less intact. Which means that even when you’re in an area where there aren’t all that many intersecting flight patterns directly overhead, they can drift over from several hundred miles away.
April 26, 2014 at 7:35 am
Anonymous
Obviously there are a lot more intersecting flight paths in other parts of the country, resulting in more “grids” in those busier areas. Most of our nearby flight paths are roughly north-south, but there are also some roughly east-west ones to the north and south of us, well within drifting distance. I’ve seen some criss-crossing in our skies, but nothing like what I’ve seen in busier areas. If you (the chemtrail-believing light blue anonymous) see “grids” that seem unexplainable by normal air traffic and drift, go ahead and take video / photos of them, it would be interesting to see what it is you think is “abnormal.”
April 26, 2014 at 9:05 am
Eric Kirk
Well, I’ve actually never seen anything resembling a grid locally. I’ve seen groups of intersecting contrails in urban areas where there is lots of traffic. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen more than two contrails intersect locally, maybe three. And I do often look at the sky, during day and night.
Again, I would like to see photos. With cell phones, if this is happening locally twice a month, there’s no excuse not to have it documented all the time. If you take them, email them here to me, preferably with some recognizable local landmark (such as Bear Butte, Carson Mansion, etc) and date them, I’ll post them and we can discuss them. So I’m hoping in the next month I’ll receive at least two of them.
In the meantime, here’s a petition to sign.
http://www.communityrun.org/petitions/petition-to-the-global-nwo-government-to-increase-chemtrail-spraying
April 26, 2014 at 9:40 am
Mitch
…planes following established flight paths that intersect, form an “x.” Air movement in the upper atmosphere causes these “x” patterns to drift, then along come more planes on the original flight paths, leaving new lines and “x”es which then drift the same way, etc. Repeat for a few hours, now you’ve got a “grid” of contrails.
I’m amazed, Anonymous, that you expect anyone to believe a crazy theory like that when they could instead believe that secret agencies within the government are spraying chemicals over Humboldt County in order to test weather manipulation, managing to prevent everyone but a few brave souls from realizing what is happening right above our eyes. I saw three black helicopters landing at the airport just yesterday — as far as I’m concerned, that’s proof enough! Apply Occam’s Razor if you dare — the truth is out there. By the way, your video was obviously computer-generated animation. Pretty tricky, but not everyone is a mindless drone.
April 26, 2014 at 10:07 am
Anonymous
eric, to the best of your recollection, when and how did you first hear of “chemtrails”?
mitch says to another anon regarding the grids of artificial clouds over his own head “I’m amazed, Anonymous, that you expect anyone to believe a crazy theory like that”
It’s not a theory, mitch. It’s actually happening. Typical is the contrails dissipate and form thin, whispy cloudcover. The air becomes noticeably cooler in a matter of minutes. You’re not paying attention enough to see it as the reoccurring event it is, as it happens. Let alone patterns of the sky in general over years at a time. None of this used to happen, dig? Suddenly it’s happening here, often enough for me to know you really haven’t been paying attention, to say it’s either normal or some kind of figment altogether. That’s the real crazy talk.
April 26, 2014 at 10:18 am
Anonymous
If you were at the last oysterfest, you might have overheard people pointing out the grid of contrails over the light layer of natural cloudcover. The enormous grid persisted all day, as high altitude airplanes reformed it consistently. It was very obvious. Did you think to take just a few moments to really observe? How often do you, if ever? It’s like birdwatchers watch birds. People who are really enthused about certain cars have an eye for them in public. The sky is a free show of its own, every day. If I’m making this stuff up, point to the sky the next time you see it happening and remind yourself it’s not real.
April 26, 2014 at 10:26 am
Anonymous
Anon 7:05…we sure saw that a lot in the 90’s, didn’t we? NOT! When I talk about such things, I only refer to what I’ve seen with my own eyes right over my own head. Keep shoveling the internet into your face for all I care.
April 26, 2014 at 10:31 am
Anonymous
“I have notice there are many contrails in a grid pattern once or twice a month on average and only a tenth or less than that many normally.”
Over the course of a year, yes I agree that’s become the ballpark average as I’ve witnessed as well. Anon 8:04pm has been paying some sort of attention, or is a lucky liar. Abnormally more this year so far.
April 26, 2014 at 12:10 pm
Eric Kirk
To answer a question in there, I don’t know when I first heard anyone serious about it, but it was after I moved to Humboldt County. I remember people joking about it before moving here, but never actually met a person who was serious about it. I had met a person who believed that the moon landings were faked though. I actually thought she was joking until a few minutes into the conversation when I realized, “Holy crap! She’s for real!”
And before i moved to Humboldt County the only people I had ever met who opposed water fluoridation were John Birchers. And of course General Jack Ripper in Dr. Strangelove.
April 26, 2014 at 12:13 pm
Eric Kirk
I would put a question to you though, if all of this is top secret, why are they making checkerboard grids? Or does the ionization of dilythium crystals require a Cartesian grid formation in order to reverse the polarity of the psychosynthetic properties of the secret chemicals?
April 26, 2014 at 12:59 pm
Mitch
Simple, Eric. The masterminds that secretly rule the world are incredibly dumb. (It’s not all that different than an all-loving God who, when described by scribes of a 6000 year old tribe, sounds an awful lot like a crotchety, genocidal tribal leader from 6000 years ago.)
April 26, 2014 at 1:00 pm
suzy blah blah
-the history here is the main issue but i don’t think it would hurt to do more investigative work on the current status. First the rumors need to be discriminated from the truth. I’m wondering a few things about this. For now if we can put the JFK/CIA/Hitchcock connection aside temporarily to try and focus on a more available line of investigation it may help to close in.
One, is he still in Baja? Using the same name? Do you have a list of aliases he might be going under? Could he still being running the same scam on girls? I suspect he’s doing something like that because they always repeat their pattern and that’s often how they are apprehended. What a creepy slimy asshole. Have you researched werewolves role playing workshops etc. on the internet, specially if attached to sleazeball’s name and/or from Mexico. A good lawyer will get on the paper trail for you if that’s the direction you choose. Fake identities, social security numbers, bank records, everything has to be looked into.
What i really think is that if we can get him on a current charge on the shady activity he’s involved in right now (cuz you know he must be) … he can be put behind bars until the full evidence of Kristen’s case comes forward. Sometimes they’ll make a confession or plea-bargain. I know it’s only a start but it may lead to other clues and info the more you get the word out the more chance there’ll be of justice being served. There’s a lot of good people out here that just need a little more information to move forward on. He may have to be fooled into returning to the states with the bait of some young prospect who is actually a martial arts expert and can take him down. What i’d really like to do is take him out right their with a footkick assault but we won’t blow our chances by getting too anxious for justice. I hope LOL. Seriously, if we take it step by step i’m sure that this can be resolved and closure assured. It makes my blood boil to think of what innocent young girl is being forced to have sex with him tonight –ew!
April 26, 2014 at 1:11 pm
suzy blah blah
-once he goes for the cheesecake the mousetrap will slam down on his slimy neck and break the case wide open..
April 26, 2014 at 3:56 pm
Anonymous
It’s so “obvious” and happening a couple times a month, but no photos? No videos? Kinda hard to believe.
April 26, 2014 at 4:10 pm
Anonymous
“Anon 7:05…we sure saw that a lot in the 90′s, didn’t we? NOT!
I saw quite a few, but then in the 90’s I was spending quite a bit of time in an area with more flights. I didn’t see a lot of “grids” around here, and I still don’t. A few “x”es, once in a while doubling up into something like a “#,” which I suppose counts as a modest “grid.” Again, if this is happening fairly frequently around here, let’s see the photos and videos. (Be sure to note the time and date so they can be compared with known flight patterns).
“When I talk about such things, I only refer to what I’ve seen with my own eyes right over my own head. ”
On that basis one could argue that the earth is “obviously” flat, and that the sun “obviously” revolves around the earth. Personal observations are not always better than science — in fact often they’re not.
Back to the original topic of this thread — “what can change your mind.” Well, for me the answer is some kind of hard evidence. In this case, the best evidence would be samples taken from the contrails themselves. Again, I ask, after several decades of this hysteria, how come the chemtrail enthusiasts have yet to do something as obvious as renting a plane, hiring a credible researcher with the appropriate equipment, and going up and taking samples?
What won’t be likely to change my mind? Being told I’m stupid or unobservant, or lying, and that it’s “obvious” that the contrails that look the same to me since they did back in the 70’s (only there is about the same amount of increase as one would expect given the increase in air travel) are now something totally different. That’s about as unpersuasive an argument as one could possibly make..
April 26, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Anonymous
“Typical is the contrails dissipate and form thin, whispy cloudcover.
There is nothing new or unusual about that.
“The air becomes noticeably cooler in a matter of minutes.”
The air become noticeably cooler when the sun is blocked? Wow, that’s quite amazing. I can’t imagine how that could possibly happen. Must be a conspiracy!
“None of this used to happen, dig? Suddenly it’s happening here.”
Wrong, and wrong.
April 26, 2014 at 4:17 pm
Anonymous
“It’s so “obvious” and happening a couple times a month, but no photos? No videos? Kinda hard to believe.”
The message is to see for yourself. Why would anybody take anybody for their word over the internet.Take your own picture, it’ll last you longer. You think what such a large number of people are saying is complete baloney, see for yourself and report back! I don’t see any evidence in what you write that demonstrates you’re watching it happen as it happens. Not in humboldt county, definitely not in the eureka/arcata/mckinleyville area. You haven’t been paying attention, you’re still not paying attention, you’re fingering the computer to explain it all away, and that’s okay.
April 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm
Anonymous
“I would put a question to you though, if all of this is top secret, why are they making checkerboard grids?”
Better coverage? Your guess is as good as mine? Not so top secret, you can see it with your own eyes. Have you looked into reasoning the phenomenon from the perspective that there is some sort of “geoengineering project” happening? Can you resist the urge to simply accept the barrage of pro/con tinfoil conspiracy websites thrown at you whenever you google the subject?
April 26, 2014 at 4:32 pm
Anonymous
“my main point is that I see about twenty times as many contrails overhead on those occasions. I see this happen on average once a month Explain to me if you can why there are so many more at times. . .”
Because atmospheric conditions vary. When humidity at the altitude the plane is flying at is low (relatively little moisture in the air), the contrails don’t form, or evaporate quickly, but when humidity is high, contrails form readily and can persist for many hours. Basic physics and chemistry. VERY basic, in this case.
April 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm
Anonymous
This light-blue anonymous appears to be a classic example of someone who is not just ignorant, but is actually aggressively ignorant. Doesn’t understand basic physics and basic chemistry (and apparently has no interest in learning) ignores straightforward scientific explanations, and gets hostile, angry, and accusatory when facts are pointed out that don’t jibe with the conclusions he or she has already jumped to. What a way to go through life…
April 26, 2014 at 5:25 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, let’s document it here. If it happens twice a month, you should be able to get photos of it at least, oh, once every two months? If you have a cell phone, you should be able to get them twice a month. Let’s post them here and discuss them.
I mean, I haven’t seen more than an X pair of trails in Humboldt County – ever. So how can I take my own photo? They only happen where you are. Apparently.
April 26, 2014 at 5:48 pm
Eric Kirk
In the meantime, don’t take any chances!
April 26, 2014 at 5:48 pm
suzy blah blah
” When humidity at the altitude the plane is flying at is low (relatively little moisture in the air), the contrails don’t form, or evaporate quickly, but when humidity is high, contrails form readily and can persist for many hours.”
That’s true. But it doesn’t explain why when the humidity is low there are normally a few contrails that persist, but on some days, approximately once a month, there are many more that persist. A 12 to 1 minimum difference between a normal day and a “chemtrail” day.
I think you may be mixing me up with another blue anonymous. I am *8:04 and 1:13 last night. I am not here to be aggressive or to prove a case. I am just here to offer what I have witnessed.
April 26, 2014 at 5:50 pm
suzy blah blah
I am posting from suzy’s computer today.
April 26, 2014 at 5:53 pm
suzy blah blah
-suzy on the other hand is here to be “aggressively ignorant”. I think the true believers have there heads up there ass. I agree with the guy that says “it’s obvious”. Totally.
April 26, 2014 at 5:56 pm
suzy blah blah
-but chemtrails are the least of our worries right now!
April 26, 2014 at 5:57 pm
Anonymous
“You think what such a large number of people are saying is complete baloney, see for yourself and report back.”
I look at the sky almost every day, usually numerous times a day. So I have “seen for myself” and have “reported back” right here on this thread. What I see are the same sort of contrails I’ve been seeing since the 70’s, and the contrails are behaving the same as they did back then. You say you are seeing something different, something that I am somehow not seeing. Thus the request for photographic / video evidence of what you claim to be seeing. Interesting how resistant you are to that rather simple and very reasonable request.
April 26, 2014 at 6:11 pm
suzy blah blah
Not sure but Bill has a good side and a bad side like most people do. The comments he gave to me helped to save my life in many respects. It seems like he is trying to help me some of the time.
-very interesting – i’d like to hear more about this angle. Do you know his record? Was there any hospitalization in his past. Specifically mental hospitals. I think if he saved your life he may have had other motives rather than just “goodness”. But i am viewing it from the outsider’s viewpoint so ….
Right now Lady Luck’s blessing is needed for sure. But the more you fill in the details the more we can begin to figure out a better profile on Sball and maybe tighten the net. There are people out here that are interested in this beginning to make progress towards being resolved. Do you have any photographs or possibly videos from the time? Anything may provide some not yet discovered part of the puzzle as to setting the record straight.
Never say no. There is a chance.
April 26, 2014 at 6:13 pm
suzy blah blah
-funny how dipstick wants video evidence but he has none himself to prove it isn’t happening. Typical troll.
April 26, 2014 at 6:13 pm
Anonymous
” it doesn’t explain why when the humidity is low there are normally a few contrails that persist, but on some days, approximately once a month, there are many more that persist. A 12 to 1 minimum difference between a normal day and a ‘chemtrail’ day.”
Commercial flights are taking place tens of thousands of feet above the ground, and conditions there are different than they are on the ground (I can hardly believe I need to say this, but apparently I do). Again, the same number of flights can and does result in different numbers of contrails and different lengths of persistence, depending on the amount of moisture in the atmosphere at the altitude where the planes are flying on a particular day. Not the relative humidity at ground level.
Again, very basic stuff.
April 26, 2014 at 6:22 pm
Anonymous
“-funny how dipstick wants video evidence but he has none himself to prove it isn’t happening. Typical troll.”
Yeah, why won’t people take pictures of things that they don’t see happening!? How unfair to expect those who say these things are happening to provide photos of the things they say they’re seeing!
I say there are millions of pink unicorns rampaging through the hills several times a month — it’s totally “obvious,” it’s just that you sheeple are too brainwashed or stupid or unobservant to notice them. Until the non-believers show provide conclusive evidence that they aren’t ever there, they’re just dipshit trolls. And no, I’m not going to take any pictures, you should see for yourself and report back.
April 26, 2014 at 6:22 pm
suzy blah blah
-JFK turned down the chemtrail program in the 60s. That saved us for a while. But it got taken up again in the late 80s by the same mother fuckers (literally). Now we see it escalating out of control. No surprise to those of us paying attention to history. Watch your back!
April 26, 2014 at 6:25 pm
suzy blah blah
-that’s cute, but the pink unicorn thing is really getting old you know.
April 26, 2014 at 6:29 pm
Eric Kirk
Photos. Give me photos. Not from the Internet. Photos with locally recognizable background.
Shouldn’t be hard.
April 26, 2014 at 6:31 pm
olmanriver
‘Issued in 1994 to the Hughes aerospace giant “for Reduction of Global Warming”, the sky shield blueprint calls for dispensing microscopic particles of aluminum oxide and other reflective materials into the upper atmosphere to reflect one or two per cent of incoming sunlight. Computer simulations by Ken Caldeira at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory calculated that this would be enough to stop warming over 85 per cent of the planet, despite an anticipated doubling of carbon in the atmosphere within the next 50 years.’ This basic article from 2001 may be of interest to some, or food for mocking for others. It does indeed acknowledge the increase in air traffic increasing cirrus cloud production, but not enough to cover the observable phenomena in areas without commercial airline traffic. The example from Maine in the article is typical of many from around the world. The only grid pattern I have seen was over the Humboldt Bay area. Here is Sohum the huge percentage of persistent contrails we see are from military flyovers, as this is a somewhat restricted flying area at those altitudes, as local pilots have informed me. Flying close to military planes to measure exhaust is something I might be tempted to recommend that others do it, but it not something I would do.
Personally I find appealing the notion that persistent contrails are part of an attempt to balance out the damage done to the upper atmosphere from chlorine and fluorine gases that let in more UV to trash the ocean plankton’s ability to process our rising CO2 levels. There is so much information about geoengineering ploys like aerosol dispersion available online from credible sites, is it that hard to believe? Obama even made a threat to do something with his pen and paper (executive order) about Climate Change last year, if Congress didn’t address the issue, inferring, as I recall, that he would be be making it rain. (too lazy to look for a link)
One of the first media coverages of the chemtrailing /respiratory problems phenomena was a San Bernadino tv station that noted a spike of respiratory ailments showing up in local hospitals after a heavy overflight day, I think this was over a decade ago, and is just another anecdotal mention. The basic article linked from http://www.rense.com/general15/chemusmilitarycontinues.htm gives the theory I heard long ago that bacteria and viruses only found in the higher atmosphere are showing up down here and causing these health issues.
(you won’t have to look at any rense adds on this link-no worries)
Is Chemtrailing basic geo-engineering? The “eyes” have it…….or don’t.
April 26, 2014 at 6:34 pm
suzy blah blah
-i have to agree with EK. You observer guys need to get your smart phones out and take pics, not only on the days but on the off days too to show the glaring contrast. I know you can do it. For the team!
April 26, 2014 at 6:43 pm
suzy blah blah
Here is Sohum the huge percentage of persistent contrails we see are from military flyovers
-uh, uh, uh …
April 26, 2014 at 7:09 pm
Anonymous
Physics and atmospheric conditions apply to military jets too.
Olmanriver — of course no one in their right mind would follow a military aircraft “closely” — or any other aircraft for that matter. But there would be no need to follow “closely,” precisely because it’s the persistent contrails that the “chemtrail” believers are so worked up about.
As has been noted, persistent contrails can last for many hours. So you could be on the ground when the plane passes overhead, and still get up there in plenty of time to sample what’s in those contrails that is making them (supposedly) act different, while the plane that produced them — military or otherwise — will be long gone.
And of course the light blue anonymous has made claims about “huge grids” and other (supposedly) odd contrail behavior over NoHum, not SoHum. And supposedly these “chemtrails” are happening every day, all over the country. So, no excuses, get up there and test ’em.
April 26, 2014 at 7:25 pm
olmanriver
I should have said that the huge percentage we see directly overhead are from military planes in Sohum (not is Sohum)… my ridge has views of trails being laid over the ocean, and far to the east (I think over just the Yolla Bollas, but maybe they are the Sac valley). What % of those lines are commercial/military I dunno. Staying with my 17 years of observations of the more overhead trails to clouds phenomena, and after talking to two local pilots and seeing one flight map, our area is….. I don’t remember the classification, but essentially a military only area at the higher elevations. I know of some commercial approaches to the airport up north at lower elevations. I can only speak from my observations, and feel free to differ… is uh uh uh actually but but but?
This is a worldwide phenomena and as one site said ‘The only conspiracy surrounding geoengineering is that most governments and industry refuse to publicly admit what anyone with eyes can see. Peer-reviewed research is available to anyone willing and able to maneuver the labyrinth of scientific journals. So, while there is some disclosure on the topic, full public explanation is lacking.’ http://www.globalresearch.ca/atmospheric-geoengineering-weather-manipulation-contrails-and-chemtrails/20369
April 26, 2014 at 7:49 pm
suzy blah blah
-i’m not differing with you at all River, suzy’s only choking a little.
But as for the sampling question, you don’t go up only on “the days”, you have go up on the off-days too. To show the spike. Along with collaborating photos and videos dated and stamped. This should be done every day for a 6 months to one year period for the evidence to be sufficient for analyses. That’s all. So isn’t Alex Jones or somebody like that with a big team to command and money to invest and ego to display working this yet? Somebody could make a bundle breaking this if they work it right, or maybe be killed –that is if it’s really true …
*dramatic korean made violin music*
Or it could be a challenge for a hippie sky-hugger type – be going into the haze – with a good-gas-mask strapped on …
Meanwhile suzy has other chems to deal with right now. –jah mon!
April 26, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Anonymous
olmanriver@7:25,
I can’t make out what point, if any, you are trying to make in your first paragraph. But as to the opening of your second paragraph “This is a worldwide phenomenon” that just reinforces my question: Why haven’t the chemtrail believers ever bothered to get samples of the contrails? All the “reports,” documentaries, conferences and yet none of these geniuses ever thought “hey maybe we should actually check what’s in those things before we keep making all these claims?” Apparently not. Kinda shows what kind of intellects we’re dealing with there.
Yes, “anyone with eyes” can see contrails. That does not mean they are “chemtrails” or are part of some “geoengineering” scheme. I’d love to see this “peer-reviewed research” your source alludes to, but unfortunately they didn’t list any. Apparently they were unable to “maneuver the labyrinth of scientific journals” to find any, but somehow they still know they’re there.
The source does repeatedly cite a pseudoscientific document called “Case Orange” and makes this claim:
“…the writers prefer the term ‘persistent contrails’ to describe the phenomenon since all contrails are chemtrails. ‘Persistent contrails’ distinguishes those that contain weather-altering additives from those that represent normal aircraft exhaust that dissipates after a few seconds or minutes.”
But it is simply false that “normal” contrails “dissipate after a few seconds or minutes” unless they contain “weather-altering additives.” Whether contrails appear, and how long they persist, depends on atmospheric conditions. Persistent contrails have been noted (and photographed) all the way back to before WWII. Starting from such a thoroughly inaccurate premise all but guarantees ending up with a thoroughly inaccurate conclusion.
April 26, 2014 at 8:19 pm
olmanriver
http://coto2.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/case_orange-5-10-2010-belfort-chemtrails.pdf is the link to “CASE ORANGE: Contrail Science, Its Impact on Climate and Weather Manipulation Programs Conducted by the United States and Its Allies,” 10 May 2010. PDF without appendices (short version of a 300 page report)
I don’t need to measure anything because you think it is up to me, mr anon. I prefer to read detailed reports like the one above and see what people around the world are thinking and recording and studying. And how geo engineering is no longer a “conspiracy” term in MSM.
April 26, 2014 at 9:08 pm
Anonymous
That “detailed report” is a joke, “informally peer-reviewed” by a UFO “researcher” who presented it at a conference of chem-trail believers.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-belfort-group-case-orange-conclusions-recommendations.95/page-2
I didn’t mean that you, personally, should sample the contrails that you think are “chemtrails.” My point was that I find it very odd that the people writing the “detailed reports” and making the documentaries and running the websites and holding the chemtrail conferences don’t appear to have made any effort to sample the substance they spend so much time and effort making claims about. Putting a huge amount of effort into promoting a far-out claim while at the same time not bothering to make a relatively small effort to definitively test the veracity of that claim makes no sense — unless you’re a fear-profiteer like Jeff Rense or Alex Jones, or some other flavor of charlatan.
It’s as if there were “detailed reports,” documentaries, websites, and conferences where people were claiming that the governments and/or corporations were intentionally spreading aluminum, barium, titanium (or whatever) throughout the ocean with the propellers of ships — “chem-waking” — in order to change the temperature of the ocean — yet despite years and years of such claims, none of the people promoting this “chem-wake” conspiracy theory had ever bothered to take the simple, obvious, logical step of following behind a ship and sampling the water for unusually high levels of aluminum, barium, titanium (or whatever).
April 26, 2014 at 9:56 pm
Eric Kirk
I just Googled “Belfort Group” there’s no information about them that comes from any source other than chemtrail conspiracy theory blogs – except for the thread on the “metabunk” site linked above. Nothing in Wikipedia. No news articles. Who are they?
April 26, 2014 at 10:47 pm
Anonymous
Apparently it’s a group founded by Peter Vereecke, a classical philologist (study of dead languages) and former insurance broker. I’m guessing it won’t come as a surprise that he’s an anti-vaccination campaigner too:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Vereecke&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbelfort%2Bgroup%2Bpeter%2Bvereecke%26rlz%3D1C1RNLG_enUS521US521%26es_sm%3D122
Vereecke is the guy that signed each page “approving” the anonymously authored Case Orange “report.”
April 26, 2014 at 11:09 pm
Anonymous
From what I’ve observed, the word “Conspiracy” became automatically discredited after this nation became inundated by real ones, Hell, every private business and unaccountable gov. bureaucracy has at least a few at any one time.
None of you have any children, eh? Too bad.
Borrow a few 9 year old’s, turn them loose in your yard and watch them conspire against one another sooner or later.
Anyone watching the very real documentaries of contemporary geo-engineer seminars (see Tom Sebourn’s blog) where they talk about releasing atomized aluminum and barium particles to deflect the sun, has to wonder if, in fact, it isn’t being tested.
How many other horrendous examples of thoughtless conspiracies jeopardizing human health do you really need to be concerned?
April 26, 2014 at 11:14 pm
Anonymous
Well looky here — The Belfort Group has a Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/125620608602/
Mostly chemtrail stuff, but also UFO’s, ghosts, NWO, vaccine conspiracy, Agenda 21, Rothchilds, you name it. Basically all the same stuff promoted on Coast-to-Coast AM with Art Bell (or George Norry, or whoever it is these days)
Also, did you know that eyewitnesses have confirmed that Pope Francis raped and killed children as part of a satanic child-sacrifice cult called “the Ninth Circle,” and that all new popes are required to drink the blood of children? Neither did I! Thanks Belfort Group (and of course thanks to their source The Examiner).
(Now to be fair, apparently this isn’t just a Pope thing, or even just a Catholic thing, since it also includes Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, UK High Court Justice Judge Fulford, members of the British Royal Family including Prince Phillip, Dutch Cardinal Alfrink, Dutch Queen Wilhemina, her family and consort King Hendrick, Belgian Royals and Bilderberger founder [!!!] Crown Prince Bernhard.)
Oh, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks to the Belfort Group’s Facebook page, I now know “How 34 Million Satanic/Illuminati Americans Keep the World in Turmoil.” Well, Okay, I didn’t actually click through to the Youtube video that explained it, but based on the credibility conferred by being linked to on the Belfort Group’s Facebook page, I’m just gonna go ahead and take their word on it. Because contrails.
April 27, 2014 at 12:07 am
Anonymous
Its more complicated
April 27, 2014 at 7:27 am
olmanriver
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/htm/303.html water and air readings
“A review of all water tests in the State of California between 1984 and 2006 was conducted over a six-month period. Every water test result was analyzed and checked to find any unusual water contaminant data. The results of this search yielded some unusual statistics here in Mendocino and several other Northern California Counties.
It was discovered that Barium, Magnesium, Lead, Manganese, Aluminum, Iron, Sodium, and Specific Conductance (the ability of water to conduct a charge), were being found under unusual circumstances in our drinking water supplies. Unusual spikes were occurring in almost all drinking water sources in Mendocino County and in other counties throughout the State of California.” the link was already given
April 27, 2014 at 9:05 am
Eric Kirk
I don’t need youtube videos. Every crackpot conspiracy theory has plenty of youtube documentaryies. What I want is evidence. First thing I would want is photographic proof that military planes are leaving contrail grids in the sky of Southern Humboldt twice a month. Let’s start there.
April 27, 2014 at 9:05 am
Anonymous
Eric how about you take pictures of contrails in time lapse fashion over the course of the day, show me the pics of the variety I’m describing and explain to me how they don’t exist. Simple as that.
April 27, 2014 at 9:08 am
Anonymous
Eric, plenty more than twice a month you’ll see parallel spraying of some sort, leaving “party cloudy” sunsets in otherwise cloudless skies. If you can’t spot those without help, you’re really not looking.
April 27, 2014 at 9:09 am
Anonymous
The link you supplied at 7:27 does not contain the quote you follow it with.
In the 7:27 link, the claim is made that aluminum, barium and strontium were found in the Mt Shasta area and says “There is no reason, other than chemtrails, for this stuff to be showing up at these levels.”
Yeah, no reason at all — except for the fact that soils in that area are already well known to be rich in aluminum, barium and strontium:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-shasta-snow-and-water-aluminum-tests.137/#post-607
The amateur “researchers” in Mt Shasta made a number of glaring errors such as testing dirty snowpack in the middle of the summer that had been accumulating dust and ash from forest fires for months or years and comparing the findings to what would be expected in fresh precipitation (see above link from metabunk) , using ph test strips designed for urine and saliva to test soil ph (see above link from metabunk), and testing sludge from the bottom of a pond and comparing the results to what could be expected in water, not sludge:
http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
I guess you’re just going to keep posting links to discredited pseudoscience and then when the laughably poor methodologies and conclusions fatally flawed by ignorance are pointed out, you’ll just post more of the same, until I no longer want to waste more of my time doing your homework for you. Congratulations, you’ve succeeded — in proving you are unable or unwilling to evaluate the credibility of the sources you cite, or to apply critical thinking to the claims they make.
April 27, 2014 at 9:09 am
Eric Kirk
I don’t know where to find them. I’ve never seen them. I could take pictures of the sky without them, but what would that prove?
April 27, 2014 at 9:11 am
Eric Kirk
I look at the sunset every evening through my office window. Never seen more than one or two contrails – nothing I haven’t seen over my 50 years of life.
But it is telling to me that I’m offering you proof to document actual evidence of what you say, and you’re making excuses as to why you can’t or won’t do it. It must not be of great importance to you.
April 27, 2014 at 9:13 am
Anonymous
“Eric how about you take pictures of contrails in time lapse fashion over the course of the day, show me the pics of the variety I’m describing and explain to me how they don’t exist. Simple as that.”
And while you’re at it, take pictures of the hills in time lapse fashion over the course of the day, show me the pics of the vast herds of rampaging pink unicorns I’m describing and explain to me how they don’t exist. Simple as that.
What, you say the person making the claim that something exists carries the burden of proof to show they do exist? So unfair!
April 27, 2014 at 9:48 am
Eric Kirk
It is kind of funny – I ask for photos of something which doesn’t exist, and I’m told, “take them yourself!” It’s like something Lewis Carrol might write.
April 27, 2014 at 10:01 am
Anonymous
“Eric, plenty more than twice a month you’ll see parallel spraying of some sort, leaving “party cloudy” sunsets in otherwise cloudless skies. If you can’t spot those without help, you’re really not looking.”
You’ve presented no evidence that anything is being “sprayed” other than normal contrails. Parallel contrails are not odd or surprising — one plane follows a given flight path, air movement carries the first contrail some distance to the side, second plane follows the same flight path, also leaves a trail, thus parallel contrails are formed. (Same as the explanation for “grids” as provided upthread, except without intersecting flight paths.) Under certain atmospheric conditions contrails persist and spread and contribute to the formation of cloud cover, this has been documented at least since WWII, there is nothing new or unusual or inexplicable about this. So taking photos of parallel contrails leaving “partly cloudy” sunsets proves nothing other than that the laws of physics are still in operation, same as ever.
Your earlier claim was of “huge grids” about twice a month. I haven’t seen that around here, and it sounds like Eric hasn’t either. So we’re inviting you to take photos/videos of it the next time you see it. Yet you seem strangely resistant to taking that step. What is the explanation for that? Too lazy to snap a few photos of something you say you see fairly regularly? Philosophically opposed to providing evidence to back up your claims? Just enjoy wasting other peoples’ time?
April 27, 2014 at 10:30 am
Anonymous
You look out your office window at the sunset. What a joke. But you wont watch the videos because they are on youtube. You are too ignorant to discuss this intelligently until you do your homework. The health effects are devastating. This is local from a thread on Facebook.
“The aluminum being sprayed enters the system through the nasal passages and penetrates the stomach and intestinal tissues. This causes an inflammatory chain reaction which changes protein particles into gluten in the intestinal tract and increases the chances of getting celiac disease.”
Eileen Wilson – nutritional dietitian
April 27, 2014 at 11:04 am
Eric Kirk
There is an ancient saying I live by: “Life is too short to watch Youtube documentaries.”
Evidence. Give me evidence. Not youtube videos.
April 27, 2014 at 11:13 am
Just Watchin
Guess that settles it. If it’s on Facebook, it must be true!
April 27, 2014 at 11:26 am
Eric Kirk
Youtube you mean. The inerrant work of God.
April 27, 2014 at 11:51 am
olmanriver
Critical thinking anon….
‘The link you supplied at 7:27 does not contain the quote you follow it with.’
I said I had linked to it previously… —“http://sonomanewstoday.blogspot.com/2009/03/chemtrails-polluting-shasta-water.html is some information for you concerning the state’s monitoring contaminants in N. Cal waters, including an address for the state’s report showing the chemicals alleged to be in chemtrails showing up in our drinking water with changes and spikes occuring at the time of the increase in observed “persistent contrail” phenomena. ” from 5:17…
you may have overlooked the link.
Have at it…
April 27, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Anonymous
“But it is telling to me that I’m offering you proof to document actual evidence of what you say, and you’re making excuses as to why you can’t or won’t do it. It must not be of great importance to you.”
Oh thank you for offering me what now? Are you simple? If anything, I’m taking it for granted that I’m in a position to see the sky all day. Must be way more difficult for you than I thought? By your own standards, perhaps try to pay a lot closer attention than you have been for a couple of months.
April 27, 2014 at 12:41 pm
Anonymous
“So we’re inviting you to take photos/videos of it the next time you see it. Yet you seem strangely resistant to taking that step. What is the explanation for that? Too lazy to snap a few photos of something you say you see fairly regularly? Philosophically opposed to providing evidence to back up your claims? Just enjoy wasting other peoples’ time?”
You playing some kind of social media get together kinda thing? Thanks for inviting me to do your homework for you? I’m just your messenger, hoss. This is a message board. I’m not making your world mine over it. Do your homework yourself, if you care.
April 27, 2014 at 2:25 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, what you’re telling me is that you’ve made up crap and now that you’re actually called to document it, you can’t. Because it’s not happening.
But okay, Day 1 of Eric Kirk’s contrail watch. I will look at the sky at least once per hour for the next month. This afternoon, having been outside since about 12:30, I saw one contrail. It was lightly cloudy otherwise. The trail took about 15 to 20 minutes to dissipate.
I was watching my kids at soccer practice at the Rotary Field in Eureka, and looked up about every 20 to 30 minutes or so.
That’s it though. One contrail. It’s about 3:20 now and the sky is mostly clear. No contrails. I
More later.
April 27, 2014 at 2:36 pm
Mitch
Keep a watch out for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Eric, as long as you’re going to be investing your time.
April 27, 2014 at 2:41 pm
Eric Kirk
Just went outside again. No contrails.
April 27, 2014 at 3:16 pm
Anonymous
“Thanks for inviting me to do your homework for you? I’m just your messenger, hoss. This is a message board. I’m not making your world mine over it. Do your homework yourself, if you care.”
I pay pretty close attention to the sky almost every day. Yet I have not seen what you claim to see regularly. So, you made a claim that conflicts with my own observations, so I have invited you to provide evidence to back up your claim, in the form of photos and/or video. You have declined to do so despite how easy this should be for you to do if your claim is accurate, and you have not provided any reason for this choice other than, apparently, you don’t feel like it. Well, O.K., but you’re certainly inviting the conclusion that you’re just making stuff up.
April 27, 2014 at 3:36 pm
Anonymous
olmanriver,
Your link to the Mount Shasta claims (in the sonomanewstoday article) was already addressed above. As I already told you, the amateur “sampling” with fatally flawed methodology was followed by independent testing with proper methodology, which did not find any unusual levels of aluminum in the water.
http://www.mtshastanews.com/article/20090610/NEWS/306109966/0/SEARCH/?tag=1
April 27, 2014 at 3:58 pm
Anonymous
“eric, why didn’t you see the chemtrails back in the day?”
“nobody emailed them to me.”
April 27, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Eric Kirk
5:00 and in four hours I’ve seen one contrail. I was in the store for about 30 minutes. Something might have happened then.
Will keep looking for the grid.
April 27, 2014 at 4:06 pm
Anonymous
olmanriver,
From the comment section of the article you linked to in sonomanewstoday:
Two lab tests results were taken in Shasta County. The samples were taken from a filtered location (forested hilltop away from any highway or industry). The first sample was taken from a pond, which was lined with a Fish Safe Firestone Pond Guard liner, which is considered safe for aquatic life. The water sampled was an accumulation of over 1- years (18 months). This water test result came back at 375,000 ug/l, that is 375 times the maximum contaminant level (MCL). The MCL for drinking water in this state is 1,000 ug/l or 1 mg/l. There were only two water sources for this pond, rainwater and well. The well water was tested at the time the pond was filled and it tested, ND (not detected) for aluminum.
It turns out what they actually tested was sludge from the bottom of the pond. So of course they found levels much higher than would be allowed in drinking water, they didn’t test water (much less drinking water), they tested sediment from the bottom of the pond. This is thoroughly debunked here:
http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
Scroll down to “They tested sludge, not water.”
Bottom line — they found 375 mg/kg, actually quite low given that soil (which is where the windblown dust comes from that eventually accumulates as sediment at the bottom of a pond) is typically about 70,000 mg/kg. As the paragraph above states, the pond was there for 18 months. All that time, windblown dust (which has plenty of aluminum in it naturally, due to the fact that aluminum is the most commonly occurring metal in the earth’s crust, typically about 7% and higher in some areas) was landing in the pond, and sinking to the bottom, accumulating as sediment. After 18 months, they tested the sludge at the bottom of the pond, in other words, water plus sediment.
So what they found would be high levels for drinking water, if they found it in drinking water — but they didn’t test drinking water, they tested sludge at the bottom of a pond. So unless you drink sludge from the bottom of a pond, you should be O.K.
This is exactly the kind of laughably inept pseudoscience that chemtrail believers are famous for. So thanks for highlighting it. 😉
April 27, 2014 at 4:57 pm
hillmuffin
contrails AND gluten???
now it all makes sense…
April 27, 2014 at 5:45 pm
olmanriver
If that is true anonamocker, that is an outrageously stupid test, and tester. Feel free to dismiss any or all of the information in the few links I sent, discernment is a must, eh? And each to their own truth.
I actually do “believe” some, but not all, of the information I have presented, as I enjoy informing my speculation about an observable phenomena in my life.
Thanks for the rigor supplied, I had thought that there were 40 tests done in the Shasta area, but I don’t know all the details well enough to argue with you. Based on what you shared, I think the pondmuck experiment is below pseudoscience. I wouldn’t dismiss the whole chemtrail “observer/believer” phenomena though, but that is your choice to make.
Wouldn’t it be great if we could more readings!
April 27, 2014 at 7:02 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Trying to figure out how to post photos on her. Yes I have many photos of Bill and his friend Gerry. I have photos of both planes they had. Just need to figure out how. I was out in plant heaven this weekend. I did not know JFK stopped the chemtrails in 1960. No wonder his son is so freaked out. I have photos of him as well. I went to Hawaii to visit him in 2008. I took yoga teacher training from him. I also have photos of his mom.This story is big. Not sure if Bill is on my side but some comments he has made helped me to figure it out. One last thing he said to me once we split up was that he regrets helping them because I am more like his kind of people. It seems like he was hired to help Gerry. The only photo I know of the slime ball in on his web page. Gross!
Bill is six foot six and about two hundred and eighty pounds. He looks like a big ass Kenny Rodgers. When we were in India many of the Indians would call him Kenny Rodgers. I have photos of India. And photos of our plane tickets. I saved most everything. I still have the plane info when Gerry bought me the business class ticket to India. Bill was pissed off at Gerry for buying me a business class ticket to get over there. They Gerry, Kelly, and Bill were already over there and I met them in Singapore.
April 27, 2014 at 7:02 pm
Anonymous
“Wouldn’t it be great if we could more readings!”
If they are done with proper sampling protocols and sound methodology, and the results interpreted by people who actually know what they’re talking about. If they’re just more junk science, then no, more is not better.
I can’t speak to all 40 tests, but I do know that some of them involved testing dirty snowpack on Mt Shasta in mid-summer, that had been accumulating airborne dust for months, and also ash from forest fires. Some were from mud puddles, and some were from backyard rain gauges which were sitting there accumulating dust until it finally rained. And these were the ones the chemtrail “researchers” like Francis Mangels and Michael J. Murphy were pointing to as their best evidence! (So if they have some that were done with sound methodology, I’m not sure why they’re hiding those and trumpeting the embarrassingly unsound ones.)
The testing-pond-sludge-and-comparing-it-to-drinking-water-standards was included in Michael J. Murphy’s chemtrail “documentary” called “What in the World Are They Spraying” and trumpeted as a smoking gun. The link I provided for you to the contrailscience website shows the actual lab report, which clearly states that what was being tested was “sludge.”
Given that these errors have reportedly been pointed out to to folks like Mangels and Murphy and the rest time and time again, and yet they persist in pointing to this flawed “research” to scare people into believing their claptrap and buying videos and funding their “research,” at some point these people go beyond just clueless purveyors of junk science, and enter into the category of fraudsters and hoaxsters, no better than the Alex Joneses and Jeff Renses and the rest of the fear profiteers.
April 27, 2014 at 7:18 pm
Wallitina Peephole
Bills mom still lives in San Marcos. She sold her house last year or the beginning of this year and he did tell me he came to visit her a few months ago. Him a Gerry both live in Baja or Mexico now. Gerry has a estate in Rancho Sante Fe but I think it is still in his ex wifes name. Carolyn. Gerry cheated on his wife before Carolyn then cheated on Carolyn and married Kelly who used to be Gladys. Bill calls Kelly Sweet Tits or Cybal.
April 27, 2014 at 7:25 pm
Wallitina Peephole
Bills mom may have bought a trailer in a trailer park in San Marcos. Her name is Polly Bugg. He also told me she bought him a Black Lincoln last time he visited her. Its an oldie. He was trying to decide when or if he would take it to Baja. He lives in Cabo and owns a water treatment business. He uses oxygen to purify water for irrigation. He is doing jobs in that area. Gerry has wind power jobs in Baja. I heard he bought a expensive boat and may live on it near Mexico City. Bill bought a Moose Boat from a guy in Nacasio. They are made for law enforcement and Coast Guard. He wanted me to go with him years ago when he drove his boat to Mexico. I told him “no thanks I am not going deep sea fishing with you” That was about 2004 when he took off to Baja in his new boat. I think he rents it out for fishing charter trips in Cabo.
April 27, 2014 at 8:44 pm
Eric Kirk
Okay, final report on this April 27, 2014. Looked at the sky at various points of time all afternoon, probably the longest span between was 45 minutes. One contrail I saw. Probably I missed some planes.
Kirk Skywatch resumes tomorrow.
April 27, 2014 at 10:46 pm
suzy blah blah
-make the photos into files and store them on a computer. Then upload the files from the computer to a site that allows uploading, like facebook, flikr, etc. Then you can send the link to pages like the comment section of soPar..
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSt-HHo91hgEYR48hCOBrvRcYSFTZnbYVc1M_4m5h90cpYUVuhHxg
April 27, 2014 at 10:55 pm
suzy blah blah
-chemtrail watchers and anti-glutenists connect the dots … as above so below.
April 27, 2014 at 10:58 pm
suzy blah blah
April 28, 2014 at 8:30 am
Mitch
I’d like to do my part, so I looked out the window this morning. Could someone please explain where the brightness control is?
April 28, 2014 at 8:59 am
Eric Kirk
Saw a contrail when I left my house this morning – so exciting!
Sky is hazy with blue showing through in most of the sky. No contrails. :&(
April 28, 2014 at 12:00 pm
Unk John
The forecast for tonight is dark, with darkness continuing throughout the night, and scattered light by early morning.
I do miss George.
I haven’t seen a single contrail in days, but then again we all know that it is always cloudy in western Washington.
April 28, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, on my way to court, and on my way out of court – all blue, no contrails.
Did see a plane leaving a bit of a trail, but it disappeared pretty quickly. The invisible stuff is probably even worse!
April 28, 2014 at 3:07 pm
Wallitina Peephole
Out for a dog walk this morning I saw many chem trails to the east over Lake County and also many towards the North in Mendocino. They were in grids as well. I also noticed when the jets are heading North they are spewing the long trails that stay in the sky for long time. We noticed at least five chem trail jets flying over Lake County along the walk and once we were heading back towards town on our usual two mile walk we noticed all five of the jets returning South. While the jets headed South and over Sonoma County they did not leave the long trails that hang out over head. It looks like on the way North they actually drop the trails that seem to never go away. Then once they are returning to their home base they are not full of shit anymore. They seem to be dumping chemicals on both trips but the load must be only fuel on there way home from working the skies. I cant help but wonder if this is the reason for SUDDEN Oak Death. I took a load of photos I will post on my Facebook page open to the public.
April 28, 2014 at 3:10 pm
Wallitina Peephole
I don’t miss any of the chem trails because my good boy doggie does not miss a beat when they fly over. He lets me and all the people around whats up. I can hear him barking while in the garden or inside my studio and all I have to do is look up or outside. There they are.
April 28, 2014 at 3:13 pm
Wallitina Peephole
I have the photos in files on Facebook but still trying to figure out how to send them here. You can check out the files I have open to the public on my Facebook page.
April 28, 2014 at 3:43 pm
suzy blah blah
-ahem, psst, try being more discreet Eric, they’re not gonna put them up there if they know you’re watching –duh!
April 28, 2014 at 4:18 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Check out Wallitina Peephole on Facebook for more info and photos open to the public
April 28, 2014 at 4:34 pm
Anonymous
eric, pay attention to how many days “contrails” and their wake are the only clouds in the sky.
April 28, 2014 at 4:42 pm
Anonymous
” Could someone please explain where the brightness control is?”
I’m afraid that’s as bright as you get.
April 28, 2014 at 4:49 pm
Eric Kirk
Why is it important that they are the only clouds in the sky? Are you assuming that if there are no clouds there’s low humidity at all altitudes? I hope that’s now what you’re saying, because that would be very silly.
April 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Anonymous
Nothing unusual about contrails being the only clouds in the sky. I’ve seen that plenty of times — again, going all the way back to the 70’s (and probably before that too, but I was too young to notice/remember).
April 28, 2014 at 10:45 pm
Anonymous
It’s fascinating to read all the “witch burning” comments from critics that seem entirely unconcerned by the simple fact that there are actually such things as geo-engineers that are, in fact, holding public seminars on doing the very sorts of things the so-called “wackos” are concerned about.
I wonder if the criticisms would be dampened had the person documenting these seminars not been a conspiracy-theorist right-winger?
April 28, 2014 at 11:42 pm
Anonymous
People have held seminars on space elevators too. That doesn’t mean there’s a secret worldwide conspiracy that is already operating space elevators. Believing that there is such a conspiracy, despite absolutely no evidence of one, would make one a “wacko” from my point of view.
April 29, 2014 at 6:00 am
olmanriver
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/19/pacific-ocean-iron-dumping-geoengineering_n_1986517.html
“”There should not be an experiment that goes ahead and the public finds out about it afterwards,” he said.”
Amen.
April 29, 2014 at 7:27 am
Mitch
Here’s a new challenge, Eric, for when your month of investigative reporting on chemtrails is done: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/the-vast-network-of-common-core-conspiracy-theories
April 29, 2014 at 11:55 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Posted another photo album of our morning walk. Many trails over Lake County and starting at the point where the fire broke out last November on the fifty year anniversary of JFK murder. Today the returning jets went straight up in to the sky toward the East over Lake County.
April 29, 2014 at 4:15 pm
Eric Kirk
Contrail watch day three. Saw a contrail to the south of my Arcata office at about 3:15. All clear now. Hazy.
April 29, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Eric Kirk
Mitch, wasn’t that whole concept pushed by Pres. Bush?
April 29, 2014 at 5:43 pm
Anonymous
”
Eric Kirk
“Why is it important that they are the only clouds in the sky?”
When airplane exhaust is the only cloud in the sky, for days at a time, you think that’s normal? Now or ever? If that’s all you saw over the arcata sky today at 3:15, you weren’t looking close enough, or you don’t know what you’re looking at? Just north of arcata, there was a very massive formation of intersecting “contrails” that created the haze. You didn’t see them? Is your scope of vision narrow? Are you even being serious? Also, all morning prior to 1pm, planes flew north/south dropping “contrails” over the blue lake area that no doubt shrouded them in a vague haze as they dissipated east…”partly cloudy”…at least five or six planes, starting around 8am.
April 29, 2014 at 6:23 pm
Mitch
I think the former President felt ill-served by his education.
April 29, 2014 at 7:14 pm
Eric Kirk
Okay, I will admit that my view is south from Bayside Road in Arcata to Eureka, so I would have missed the contrails over Blue Lake. Did anybody else see the contrails over Blue Lake?
The haze I was was fog over Eureka, hanging low, and it was there from sun-up. I was in a deposition at the Eureka Inn for the late morning and early afternoon and saw no contrails on the way there, nor the way back. Just one at a little after 3:00.
So the planes which “dropped” the “very massive formation of intersecting contrails” – were they small planes or jets?
I will check with some friends in Blue Lake.
April 29, 2014 at 7:38 pm
Mitch
Eric,
Nobody believes you. It’s really easy to see what you are up to, trying to deny what other observers see. You should be ashamed! Shande! Shande! How much is the NWO paying you?
April 29, 2014 at 8:39 pm
Anonymous
“When airplane exhaust is the only cloud in the sky, for days at a time, you think that’s normal? Now or ever?”
So when contrails don’t lead to cloud formation, that’s evidence of “chemtrals,” and when they do lead to cloud formation, that’s also evidence of “chemtrails?” Um, okay then.
April 29, 2014 at 10:04 pm
Narration
Here’s what happens if you lived in Humboldt growing up, and then lived a lot of other places in the world.
You remember the beautiful, almost solid-seeming clouds that form on this boundary with the ocean. You realize these cumulus and strato-cumulus are as unique as the thunderheads that form over Colorado near the Rockies. And other clouds elsewhere, just because of local conditions in water densities and thermoclines.
The other thing you remember, particularly when high altitude planes were relatively new, will be the dense and dynamic vapor trails, again stronger than anywhere else, and due to the same water concentrations and temperatures in the atmosphere which make those beautiful dense clouds.
The same is true for the blocky structures seen as the vapor trails dissipate, again because of the local altitude dynamics of winds, temperatures, and water vapor level.
If you saw these things, and their contrasts elsewhere, you would have no time or belief for such imaginationary interpretations as ‘chemtrails’
You would tend to suggest people look up the word paranoia, and its related concepts for those who don’t imagine themselves free of ‘outside powers’.
You would consider the effects on persons living so far from the rest of civilization that they tend towards myth-making to fill in where they feel they are outside the circles of power that denser cultural centers communicate.
You might think for at least a moment on the supposed harmlessness of certain drugs, which are known to induce paranoia.
You would certainly consider the likelihood, or properly its lack, that anyone of ;’power’ would bother to make something (and visibily) to affect the lives of such a very few living in a remote area.
That is, you would, if you didn’t have a fear that something like the use of paraquat from helicopters in South America had been used could occur against what you protect above all else because it is the only economics you now know.
How different Humboldt would be, and so much more like itself, if politics and daily life became much more free of the gravitation from pot culture and real estate culture.
If you invent into a future much more diversity in what is done and forms work, then there is no need to depend only on one or two ways to earn, and the distortion fields would then dissipate. Just as vapor trails do.
Doesn’t it seem actually the right challenge? To invent forward from what you have now, whatever that is, and all welcome as there are intelligences and creativities of many kinds.
April 29, 2014 at 10:44 pm
Eric Kirk
Mitch – the other thing I know is that the chemtrails are always going to be in the direction I didn’t look. It’s funny how it works that way.
But this is science. Maybe it’s in the nature of chemtrails themselves that they elude my observation. Maybe the chemicals have altered my neurons and seen to that.
So did anyone in Blue Lake see a chemtrail grid? My friends didn’t, but they admit that they really weren’t looking for it.
April 30, 2014 at 2:07 am
Anonymous
“Just north of arcata, there was a very massive formation of intersecting “contrails” that created the haze.”
Great! So I’m sure you took some photos, right? I can’t wait to see them!
April 30, 2014 at 6:15 am
Mitch
Eric,
I think it’s the Chemtrail Uncertainty Principle. The observer flips them into the contrail state, or totally shields them from observation. Especially if the observer comes with a state of any doubt.
Narration,
Lovely!
April 30, 2014 at 6:20 am
Anonymous
yes, 2:07, I have my camera on me at work a lot and I took a few pics yesterday with eric in mind, even, but looking at this blog last night I balked at sending them, And I haven’t really changed my mind. If eric gives his word he won’t share them or identify my place of work or any crap like that, I’ll consider sending them to him, I think he gave an email address above., I really want nothing of blog world to permeate my real life, thankyouverymuch.
April 30, 2014 at 6:22 am
Anonymous
I think a few of you should re-read a couple of olmanrivers’ links above for a more adult perspective as to what’s probably going on. It’s not like you can’t see it with your own two eyes.
April 30, 2014 at 11:24 am
Liberal Jon
Amen narration.
April 30, 2014 at 2:37 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Today the chem trail jets were gridding right over Sonoma County near Santa Rosa and Geyserville. Yesterday and the day before they were heavy all over Lake County area with many grid like white lines in the skies. I took photos of the Jets and their work. I noticed how the jets heading North were leaving the lines but once they head back towards the South they only have fuel inside them that does not linger as our eyes can see. Yesterday, I noticed when the jets were returning from dumping the line that linger they flew straight up and towards the Eastern sky. Once they reached a certain altitude they just vanished. It may be that on Monday the jets were coming from Santa Barbara and yesterday they may have been coming from Mohave. Today they were not flying as much in the areas over Lake County and only made one checker board grid over Sonoma. The haze has been over head since they dumped on top of us here in Sonoma County. I posted photos of the photos I took Monday and Tuesday on my Facebook page, Wallitina Peephole open to the public for all to see.
April 30, 2014 at 3:22 pm
Unk John
Why don’t you just post them here as well as on facebook?
April 30, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Eric Kirk
Okay, well, contrail watch day 4. This morning driving to Arcata from the Samoa peninsula, I saw two – that is TWO – contrails stretching from north to south over the hill, looked like at least one of them maybe flew over Bayside. They were parallel. Throughout the morning, looking south from my Bayside Road office to Eureka, I didn’t see any contrails. But upon my return to the office after court in Eureka, I saw a contrail, also north south, over the same hill.
Moving east-west at a high altitude were strings of thin clouds, usually associated with rising heat – reminded me of the valley actually. But no contrails other than the one. Looking south, there’s a bit of a haze, and the wind is cooling off the heat outside. No contrails.
April 30, 2014 at 3:35 pm
suzy blah blah
-good job, OhNo you figured out the gadgetry, yay — and now if you want to you can also copy the link from the address bar at the top of your browser and paste it here (and there and everywhere) like this:
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203837077635234.1073742003.1468960023&type=1
April 30, 2014 at 3:47 pm
suzy blah blah
-or to send a single image: when you’re at Facebook right click on the picture, then left click on “view image”, or something similar to that. Now you can highlight-copy&paste it from the address bar on top:
April 30, 2014 at 3:56 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Yay! Thanks. It may take me a bit to figure it out. LOL Thanks!
April 30, 2014 at 4:08 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
April 30, 2014 at 4:09 pm
Eric Kirk
Here’s more on the chemtrail conspiracy. By the way, dihydrogen monoxide has killed many, many people! It’s dangerous stuff!
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/04/chemtrail-scare-its-that-damn-dihydrogen-monoxide/
April 30, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203552285035597.1073741988.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:13 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203831249209527.1073742002.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:15 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203747209268581.1073742001.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Weeeeeeeee
Here we go again…
This is fun!
April 30, 2014 at 4:18 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203556874030319.1073741990.1468960023&type=1
April 30, 2014 at 4:19 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203740493860700.1073742000.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:21 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10202806903201517.1073741959.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:22 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10202295040965281.1073741938.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:24 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10202295014724625.1073741937.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:25 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10202294068140961.1073741927.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:27 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10201182553393787.1073741833.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:28 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Had to be the best shit I ever took and it happened on Kirk Skywatch today!
April 30, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10202442488331373.1073741950.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 4:33 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10201703713022452.1073741868.1468960023&type=3
April 30, 2014 at 5:43 pm
olmanriver
For those who want an up to date scientific look at community water fluoridation here is a recent article.
The Scientific World Journal
Volume 2014 (2014)
Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/293019/
April 30, 2014 at 8:56 pm
Anonymous
“Moving east-west at a high altitude were strings of thin clouds, usually associated with rising heat – reminded me of the valley actually. But no contrails other than the one.”
And what if I told you those thin clouds were the direct result of contrails? They appeared before noon, “party cloudy” thereafter, same as yesterday. There were at least three that I witnessed over arcata today and more blew in from what looked like the south west. This morning over the blue lake-ish area (I dunno exactly…east from my route) there were three contrails being made before 8am. Thereafter at least two, and I did take pics.
April 30, 2014 at 10:08 pm
Eric Kirk
And what if I told you those thin clouds were the direct result of contrails?
You would be absolutely wrong. The clouds I saw are known as cirrus fibratus clouds, and they are a very common natural phenomena, existing long before airplanes.
April 30, 2014 at 11:06 pm
Narration
well, cirrus can be the end result of contrails. This is under investigation as one more influence towards global warming.
May 1, 2014 at 6:40 am
Anonymous
“You would be absolutely wrong. The clouds I saw are known as cirrus fibratus clouds, and they are a very common natural phenomena, existing long before airplanes.”
Well what if I showed you pictures from Tuesday over arcata that show the contrails you didn’t see having formed the cirrus fibrates you did? You’re part of a scary phenomenon itself, eric…you’re part of the tinfoil brigade without realizing it. Think about it, political suicide if a candidate of any sort mentions “chemtrails”, right? Yet we’re taliking about a very serious global happening. It’s insane that so many including yourself just write it off because you’re not paying enough attention. One would think someone working for the parks would want to be on top of our ecological evolution as an industrial society…we’re not going to cease being an I heavily industrial society. You’ve fallen for the misinformation to the point that you clown a very real and serious new climate/weather/global warming event of somekind. Did you read olmanriver’s link that talked about cirrus fibrates? Probably plenty more information out there as well…a much more logical explanation of what’s actually going on that one can actually see with their own eyes than to do what you’re doing and refuse to acknowledge it altogether. Looking east toward fieldbrook/bluelake at 7:30-ish I see three contrails and one forming, just above the horizon. I’m done taking pictures for you but if you repost your email address and give me your word you won’t share them, I’ll consider sending you the pics tonight.
May 1, 2014 at 8:03 am
Eric Kirk
A contrail is, by definition, a cirrus cloud. But they do not result in cirrus fibratus clouds. Both consist of ice crystals, but the naturally occurring fibratus clouds can extend over a continent and the formations are being caused by upper atmosphere winds, which can be as high as 150 miles per hour. They not only predate airplanes, they predate humans. It’s what Van Gogh depicted in Starry Night.
For anyone actually interested in the science, here’s a very good article, with lots of references and links.
http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com/2012/06/chemtrails-iii-contrails-and-clouds.html
May 1, 2014 at 8:06 am
Eric Kirk
I will not post the photographs if you don’t want me to, but three contrails isn’t that interesting to me. Give that contrails can last for hours, it wouldn’t surprise me to find multiple trails along a set commercial flight path. What I’m more interested in is the “grids” you or someone described which you or someone say occur at least twice a month. It’s possible that there are crossing flight paths over Humboldt County, but as I’ve never seen the phenomena, I would like to look at the patterns and discuss them.
May 1, 2014 at 10:58 am
suzy blah blah
-you are totally welcome. For a full page image, right-click on a pic — then left-click on “view image” from the menu that comes down. Take care.
May 1, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203853677330216.1073742005.1468960023&type=3&uploaded=12
May 1, 2014 at 12:56 pm
suzy blah blah
-tic-tac-toe van gogh:
May 1, 2014 at 1:27 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10201704789169355.1073741871.1468960023&type=3
May 1, 2014 at 1:32 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Dr. Carman did his thesis on the rare genetic liver disease they say Van Gogh had (Acute Intermittent porphyria). It also runs in my family. I have hepatic porphyria not the cutanious type Western Medical providers put on everyone. The cutanious type they say is caused by drug abuse. They were trying to frame me as a junkie so when I die they can say I blew her loot on heroin. People can just as easy have an allergic reaction to the pill pushers drugs. Its a greed based death trap. Population Control!
May 1, 2014 at 1:35 pm
suzy blah blah
-i forget names, who had the wearwolf/wolfman scam going? Was that Bill, or was that someone else?
May 1, 2014 at 1:36 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
30% of the people with porphyria have the cutanious type brought on by an allergic reaction but the Western Doctors do not have to tell the family if a person has the genetics. They are hiding this genetic disease from people because their drugs do not treat it. Nutrition is an elective in Medical School because nutrition treats so many diseases and it would cut down on profits they make off murdering innocent people to control the populations.
May 1, 2014 at 1:38 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Many people with hep c have the cutanious type. My grandpa was diagnosed with Acute intermittent Porphyria at a hospital in L.A. in 1957. There is a 50% chance of passing it down to your family members. I do not have hep c and I have never been a Junkie or an addict. I do not have an addictive personality.
May 1, 2014 at 1:46 pm
suzy blah blah
-you’re lucky not to have an addictive tendency to go along with the genetic complications. Van gogh liked absinthe and tobacco along with hash-hish and opium. One hundred fifty mile winds between the ears blew one of them off. Lost in the ozone again.
May 1, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Bill is a contractor who used to work for Gerry Monkhouse. Gerry owns Canon Power. Kristens attorney is Mark Edwards esq. Not sure whats going on actually. Mark may have invested Kristens money in Canon Power. May be that Bill and Gerry set everyone up. May be they are all trying to get Mark Edwards esq. for what he did to Kristen and our friends. Kelly is married to Gerry. She is the sister of my x who I have my daughter with. Not sure if my x had a kid with Kristen. Matthew M. Kremer is a family law attorney who is married to Kellys older sister. I use to work for him. He may also be involved. I dated Bill for about three years. Kellly who used to be named Gladys introduced me to him on her birthday April 28th 1994 about six months before Kristen passed away. Scam of the century. Dr. Carman is a good friend of Zachary and I was told he was Kristens doctor. I met Zachary and Doc after Kristen died. Zachary told me they all got busted and trying to set people up. It may be Mark Edwards is trying to frame me to keep the loot. He may have busted Kristens doc and friends she was hanging with before she died. Kristens sister and her lover ditched her when they knew she was going to die.
May 1, 2014 at 1:55 pm
suzy blah blah
-can you post a photo of Kristen?
May 1, 2014 at 4:25 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I did post one of her in her wheelchair from 1984. I have another one from high school I will post.
May 1, 2014 at 4:33 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
file:///Users/sallypringle/Downloads/photo-1.JPG
May 1, 2014 at 4:39 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
That is Kristen and Mike Wilson who was her boyfriend before her accident. He was also her caregiver since she turned eighteen and the father of her first child, Kelsy. He was an addict and so was Kristen. My x was also an addict. That was why I finally left him in 1991. I had not seen Kirsten since 1991. We had not hung out since 1984. I saw her a few times since then. She hid both her pregnancies from me because she was on drugs during both of them as per her sister Heather. Heather also lived with Kristen and Mike for years after her accident. They Kristen and Heather were both in separate foster homes for many years before her accident. I did not know Kristen had a son till after she passed away. My friend Debbie told me about him (Dillon) after she died. I have never met him. Heather told me he was already in Hawaii with her mom at Kristens funeral.
May 1, 2014 at 4:41 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
file:///Users/sallypringle/Pip & Kristen.rtfd/doc 3.jpg
May 1, 2014 at 4:52 pm
Anonymous
Eric, way more common…way way more common…than cross traffic contrails are parallel contrails that are blown along the current and over the course of sometimes less than an hour appear to be thin high altitude clouds. If a few planes drop contrails along the same path within a few hours, it’s almost impossible to differentiate the manufactured canopy from a natural one, save that the contrail clouds often produce rainbows in themselves. I’ve been watching this happen very consistently for the past couple of months. Did you notice there was no airtraffic over the eureka/arcata/mckinleyville area todeay? And subsequently a relatively bleached sky. Only planes I saw were this morning over fieldbrook/bluelake…perhaps further toward titlow hill, difficult to register distance at that altitude. You’re in luck, though, as Tuesday’s manufactured cloudcover over arcata wasa grid. The day I believe you said you saw only one contrail. And I got pics. A succession of planes flew over before noon, took the pics at around 1:30, by 4pm it all appeared to be a natural high altitude canopy. That’s become common. You do realize it’s summer weather right now? Lemme ask, do you believe “geoengineering” is taking place in California? I will look for your email address and send you a few pics. Biggest waste of my fucking day, feels like a waste of time, that your mind is made up.
May 1, 2014 at 4:53 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
/www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203854904120885.1073742007.1468960023&type=3&uploaded=1
May 1, 2014 at 4:56 pm
Anonymous
Eric, please post the email address you want me to send pics to and I’ll get to it soon. Scrolled around this thread, musta missed it, don’t see an addy anywhere else either.
May 1, 2014 at 5:15 pm
Eric Kirk
You can send it to Eric V Kirk at gee mail dot com.
I haven’t seen rainbow effects in contrail, but I have seen them in cirrus clouds, which isn’t surprising as both are made up of ice crystals. But I googled the question, and came up with yet another, perhaps futile in the persistence of the desire to believe in the more exotic explanations, attempt to explain the science of it. But the rainbow effect indicates – water.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/05/1062039/-Contrails
I saw two contrails this morning, but none this afternoon either in Nohum nor in Sohum, nor any cirrus clouds down here. Obviously the conditions are a bit different from yesterday at 20 to 30 thousand feet above us.
I do not believe that the cirrus clouds I saw yesterday could have come from contrails. They looked like very standard cirrus fibrous clouds. I don’t know whether it’s possible for a contrail “cumulus” cloud to be converted as such. Perhaps someone has photographed such a transformation in stages?
Have I made up my mind? Well, I haven’t made up my mind about UFOs. I simply require positive evidence before I will assert a belief in alien ships. Same here. I will accept evidence which supports evidence of “geoengineering,” though I’m not even sure what that word means. Rain cloud seeding? Yes, I know they do that, but at lower elevations, with storm clouds, with dry ice or other chemicals released from a crop duster, and the effectiveness is in dispute decades later.
May 1, 2014 at 5:29 pm
Anonymous
“Have I made up my mind? Well, I haven’t made up my mind about UFOs. I simply require positive evidence before I will assert a belief in alien ships. Same here. I will accept evidence which supports evidence of “geoengineering,” though I’m not even sure what that word means. Rain cloud seeding? Yes, I know they do that, but at lower elevations, with storm clouds, with dry ice or other chemicals released from a crop duster, and the effectiveness is in dispute decades later.”
So, regarding changing your mind…you’re aware you believe a nasa launched a rocket and took pictures on mars because you’ve seen pictures that could very easily be entirelty computer generated, yet you believe in the institution. You believe this and that about history sans any proof whatsoever save the words of the institution in which you believe. Yet there are people in your own neighborhood who will attest to witnessing the same contrail/chemtrail phenomenon I’m describing, and that you are fully capable of witnessing yourself, yet you jump to the internet and your vault of scientific factoids to debunk something you admit you’re not even paying any attention to. That’s really scientific of you in itself, eh? The planet is getting hot, the water is drying up, and governments are doing something about it. You’re aware PG&E does cloud seeding in the mountains just east of us? The mayor or some other political figure even went on record saying it was damaging the natural cycle of things. That info can be found on the interwebz, along with a lot of other intelligent information about “geoengineering” that you laugh at first, ignore later, yet keep insisting you need to see evidence. Make some sense of it, for chrissake. It’s another central California summer on the coast of Humboldt county in april.
May 1, 2014 at 5:34 pm
Anonymous
FYI just because I don’t know the names of the various cloudcovers doesn’t mean you’re any more or less aware of what’s happening in our shared environment than I am. I can’t name the layers of the atmosphere. Are you capable of believing a relatively covert “geoengineering project” could be underway in this state, kept under a shroud of misinformation and tinfoil for all kinds of social/political/economic reasons? You’re at least aware of the temparatures and water shortages, right?
May 1, 2014 at 6:46 pm
suzy blah blah
way more common…way way more common…than cross traffic contrails are parallel contrails
-as can be seen here on the cover of Eco News.
May 1, 2014 at 9:29 pm
Anonymous
“People have held seminars on space elevators too. That doesn’t mean there’s a secret worldwide conspiracy that is already operating space elevators. Believing that there is such a conspiracy, despite absolutely no evidence of one, would make one a “wacko” from my point of view.”
“PEOPLE” are not necessarily scientists. Geo-engineers are scientists that have been funded by the public to determine the effects on climate of releasing aluminum and barium particles in the atmosphere. (There is no space-elevator conspiracy that I know of, not concerns of the mass health effects).
There is circumstantial evidence that geo-engineer experiments are being tested, and some of the evidence has other possible explanations.
However, what’s fascinating here are the reflexive criticisms of other’s concerns that their government might be experimenting, as if the U.S. hasn’t already been experimenting on citizens with a myriad of biological and chemical toxins for decades.
I have no doubt that there’s paranoid wackos out there that think the government is recording all their conversations.
I find it much more disturbing that (theoretically) intelligent people are so quick to dismiss another possible government experiment, as if they’ve read absolutely nothing about other recent and historic tests with utterly no idea where they’ve been living their entire lives.
May 2, 2014 at 5:00 am
Just Watchin
I guess Mr. Bill didn’t realize the info available when posting a picture. Some interesting info when you Google ” Sally Pringle”
May 2, 2014 at 9:39 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Bill says “its not getting warmer its getting colder. Were going into an ice age”
May 2, 2014 at 9:40 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I have nothing to hide and I knew my name would be posted on here. People know my face and my photos have been posted.
Duh!
May 2, 2014 at 9:41 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Anyone know what Pebbles & Bam Bam have in common with Chem trails, Aliens and Cannabis Culture?
May 2, 2014 at 10:02 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Pip was killed in that car accident December 14th 1981
May 2, 2014 at 10:04 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203854904120885.1073742007.1468960023&type=3
May 2, 2014 at 10:04 am
Eric Kirk
Chemtrail watch day 5. Woke up in Redway and in the sky at about 9:00 a.m. saw three contrails from east to west. No idea how long they had been there. They were slightly above a cirrus cloud formation and one was a partial distrail passing through one of the clouds. That’s the most I’ve seen at once since Sunday – I guess I should regard it as a coincidence that three commercial flights followed roughly the same flight path and therefor must be part of a geo-engineering experiment to alter the weather and control our minds.
May 2, 2014 at 10:40 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I saw three chemtrails in the sky to the North of Cloverdale this morning. It looked like they were flying over Mendocino this morning. Way to may trails to document as it could take up my whole day each and every day.
Took two huge bags of greens to the homeless shelter yesterday and it was so much more rewarding. Now I got the whole front gifted to me to grow food for our community. Busy little beaver gonna feed the homeless and seniors some real food.
May 2, 2014 at 10:41 am
suzy blah blah
-that’s cool, i kinda forgot the wheelchair pic probably cuz there’s so much info all the time coming at one. And add to that that i forget names easy. But i figure the wolf costumed dude must be Mark Edwards esq. So no problem about pics etc. really. I totally understand. Personally i don’t fuck with gadgets like cameras any more than i have to. They are the “pellets of poison flooding the water” that Dylan warned about long ago. Stealing our attention and awareness. Now we see everyone staring at their cell phone constantly being “out there”. Not many of us are present these days. As prophesied.
Anyway as you notice EK is one of the unaware and an asshole and didn’t even look at the evidence you posted not to speak of the case of Kristen’s death. He’s basically a progressive communist attorney or what ever you want to call them, with his head up his ass only pulling it out to take a token glance out the office window LOL! His “research” is a joke.. He’s not gonna admit anything anyway. Even when i have presented hard evidence of violence right under his nose in the past he and — a few others? –they just have refused to see it. Or in this case evidence right “over their heads.” 😉 ” a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest” which is why we have this ignorance coming from the true believer’s club house..
Also i’d say that its not really usually, except in time of real need, worth the trouble with gadgets like cell cameras cuz of the feedback affecting the body too. The brain is part of the body folks –duh. Cell towers are evil. I stay as far from them as i can. And i don’t use any electronic gadgets except when necessary to communicate. Laptops are the exception and are cool. But … best to be careful … so i put links to pics up for people like you that appreciate them or videos. … thats all — speaking of which i found a good one for Narrator right hear/i> this morning.
Look out for it …
Which is why i wouldn’t bother with the likes of many of them as to photos. It’s obvious to those of us among them paying attention. We know about it like Bill is right about the ice age. A plane just got busted cuz he left his chem emitters on when he landed and got caught red handed which is the one good thing about all these gawdawful gadgets that have flooded the atmosphere and are drowning us. It will end up on a screen as hard evidence —A hard rain is a fallin’
Just remember, you can’t post files from your computer they have to be uploaded to the web first. And as it happens right this very minute i am watching a crisscrossing pattern of chemtrails being shaped out the window. They are dissipating and forming a cloud cover as we speak.
May 2, 2014 at 10:45 am
suzy blah blah
-keep up the good work ❤ The revolution is now.
May 2, 2014 at 10:46 am
suzy blah blah
May 2, 2014 at 10:51 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
May explain why his birthday falls on 420. Same day Bill and I returned from India. 4-20-1996
May 2, 2014 at 10:55 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
https://www.facebook.com/echoflower/media_set?set=a.10203861291160557.1073742008.1468960023&type=3&uploaded=1
May 2, 2014 at 10:59 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Bill wanted all drugs to be legal and he also knew Kristen wanted cannabis to be legal as well. The doc also wanted all drug to be legalized. That must be the ticket, LOVE!
May 2, 2014 at 11:04 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
He knows my passion for saving the trees as well. Bill LOVES me, I do know that. I love everyone except that Slime Ball. I wanted to get him! We wanted to get him. I was the bait! LOL Well worth the sacrifice!
May 2, 2014 at 11:08 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I told Bill my grandpa would want the people in Mexico to have clean water. He is down there building clean water systems.
So Cool. He loved to say “Your So Cool” True Romance was one of his favorite movies. We would watch it often.
He would also say “loose lips sink ships” He bought me a Battleship Game board for Christmas. New improved Battleship game.
May 2, 2014 at 2:02 pm
Just Watchin
To Sally Pringle (Oh No! Its Mr Bill)…..how stoned do you have to get to post the goofy shit that you write?
May 2, 2014 at 2:58 pm
suzy blah blah
-i agree with Bill and the doc, no drug should be illegal. In the meantime … just say yes! — love is the ticket. But — innocent as a dove, wise as a serpent. Because ticket or not, it’s a long hard journey from the head to the heart. Especially for those boys who mistake the tunnel of love for the crawl-space of insensibility.
May 2, 2014 at 3:25 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
May 2, 2014 at 3:27 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Not stoned at all actually. High on life and some mighty good vittles! Duh! Yabba Dabba Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
May 2, 2014 at 3:29 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Wallitina Peephole is my stage name.
May 2, 2014 at 3:39 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Bills favorite song
May 2, 2014 at 3:50 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
People have dreams and they tell them to each other when they feel the LOVE! Got a problem with it? Just Watchin?
May 2, 2014 at 4:31 pm
suzy blah blah
-wow that song brings back memories … i spent a lot of time in the deep south last winter and rubbed shoulders with some hard core southerners and found out a lot from them that makes the typical californian’s bias against the south an embarrassment to me now. To have to be from the land of prejudiced uppity snobs. That’s the way they see you -ug. And so i see the south in a different light now. Lot of dumb fuck bigots around here in california and when you spend some time on southern land and in their shoes like i did you feel it. For sure. I know, i know, keep it to yourselves boys, suzy already realizes that the south is not perfect, it has its bad points too but you can find the best kinda peeps if you go to the right sorta places. They are way cool. We partied with the homeys in Florida Louisiana and texas … And along with the new friends i made i acquired a taste for the southern flavored freedom celebrated down there as well. It’s the real thing. Bill’s right — Skynyrd rules:
May 2, 2014 at 6:09 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Yep, I love the South and spent some time with good people there as well. Took the train to Georgia a few times in 1976, 77. My Pappy was from Georgia. Stone Mountain Georgia. He was a music producer and we rubbed shoulders with some legends. He loved to introduce me to many of them as a kid. John Hartford was so cool. Hung out with the Dillards many times. Even got to meet Horshack. I have some friends in Alabama. Jim Connor used to play with John Denver and he is a long time family friend. Steve Martin was another long time friend of Sandy. I lived in Aspen before it got rich. It was normal to go watch The Dillards play at the Holiday Inn at Snowmass. My Mamma would take me along for all their late night events. I would eat popcorn and watch my favorite guys play old school Hippy songs till late into the morning often. Aspen was where I gained so much respect for or TREES. Love…
May 2, 2014 at 6:15 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
our Trees, Starwood in Aspen is where my heart is and always will be. Sat by myself in the forest many hours as a little girl feeling the qi of the trees. It really does not get much better than that. That is one reason why I decided to get out of dodge with my girl and moved her out of the city. She is glad we left So Cal and headed for the trees. It not about the money and it never was or will be.
May 3, 2014 at 12:19 am
Anonymous
So Eric, just curious, when an intrepid journalist or disgruntled geo-engineer finally confirms to your satisfaction that geo-engineer research is actually being tested, (which would be no surprise to anyone with a cursory knowledge of past biological and chemical experiments endangering the public), will you stand by your mockery?
May 3, 2014 at 8:23 am
Anonymous
I changed my mind, eric…not sending you the pics. I don’t want you associating my work with anything to do with your tinfoil circus. You’re really on the losing end of things. You’re mummified in tinfoil. Yesterday you saw three contrails east to west. From where I was around north arcata I saw at least five contrails through a break in the clouds that revealed only a western portion of the sky…they were running not quite parallel north/south. That’s at least 8 contrails between the two of us, and the whole sky wasn’t even visible.. Amazing how dramatically the FAA changes their entire flight p0lan so dramatically on a whim. Looking at the pics I was going to send, wedensday’s contrails were more south than arcata, at least four in the pics I’ve got, not even three hours later it all appeared to be a thick low-lying cloud front. And yes, definite grid over the area wedensday, couple of great pics of that. Oh well, you’ll just have to see for yourself. FYI I can’t see what I’m typing, been like this for over a week, some glitch won’t scroll past the first few lines of text. Have a nice weekend in your tinfoil hut!
May 3, 2014 at 10:38 am
Eric Kirk
Tin foil is indeed an interesting choice of words. 3 contrails is hardly evidence of geoengineering. A grid might be but its no great mystery that commercial flight paths are determined by condition related to approaches and Ive linked you to two sites which adress the issies from a perspective of science and youve responded to neither which is typical. No 3great contrails does not convince
May 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm
Eric Kirk
12:19 – Yeah about that anyway – how come in, how many years? Well, according to Wikipedia the theories mostly track back to 1996, so that’s 1 8 years of geoengineering conspiracy – and yet no whistleblowers? Not one with a conscience? Same with 911, which had to including thousands in the conspiracy – not one Daniel tor Phillip Agee.
Day 7 of chemtrail Watch – Was at a middle school track meet from 9:30 a.m. to 3:15 – saw two contrails to the northwest which intersected. Formed an X right before my eyes! Well, I didn’t actually see it happen. Must have been geoengineering for sure!
By the way, the term “geo-engineering” – you do know that “geo” denotes not air, but earth, right? Shouldn’t it be “aeriel-engineering?”
May 3, 2014 at 6:31 pm
Mitch
If they called it that, Eric, it would be a dead giveaway. Try to use your common sense!
May 3, 2014 at 6:36 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Cannon Power India/ Gerry Monkhouse bought property from a company by the name of Sun Source. Bapo was the Hindu who Gerry bought the land from on that deal. The Muslim guys who were setting up the wind parks had a business by the name of Pearl. When I went to India to visit Bill at the end of the job Gerry set up my flight overseas. Bill was upset at Gerry for booking me a flight over as business class. I was only going as tourist to visit Bill. I also thought Gerry and Kelly would be flying over with me but last minute found out they were already over there. I met them in Singapore. When I got there we hung out for a few days and then took a boat to another island in Indonesia. Gerry had a guy from India there who also took the ferry over to Batam Island. It was strange when we arrived in Indonesia that the guy from India could not get onto the island with us. He was waving to us as we set out on our vacation. Bill told me “he was probably going to jail” when I asked why he could not get through. Bill told me he must have had passport or visa issues. He also told me the people in Indonesia did not like Muslims.
Gerry and Kelly did not go to India with us either. Bill told me Kelly would never go back to India and that she had gone once. We all split up after the trip to Indonesia. Bill and I headed to India together and Kelly and Gerry took off.
Bill and I hung out a few days in Bombay and then went on to The City of Textile so Bill could do business with the guys from Pearl. I waited in our room for several days while Bill did his business. It was very scary! I tried to go out to the lobby once but everyone mostly men in business suits were staring at me. I decided it was not safe for me to be alone without Bill by my side.
Once Bill was done in The City of Textile we took of to Gujarat to meet Bapo. Bapo was the Prince of Donk. After staying on night with Bapo and his family we took of to the ranch where Bill and his friend John were staying while doing the wind power contractor job. It was near Porbender.
It was nice to be on the ranch with all the native people. Then all of a sudden Bill tells me he has to go alone to Bombay and I had to wait there with John till we could get flights together out of there. It was stressful as Bill was afraid for his life and since he was so big and stuck out like a sore thumb he left first. He told me he could only find one seat on the next flight out and John and I would have to wait a day to meet him in Bombay. Something happened to piss off the Muslims and one of them told Bill they were trying to say he was a drug dealer. Bill wrote on a note FUCK YOU! and told the guy to give this to them. Bill says this happened before I got to India. Next Bill tells me that one of the people he trusts took the computer chips that would have run the turbines and through them in a ravine. Bill also told me the Indians failed to pay Cannon Power India the last installment on the job so we had to get out of India and fast. Another thing Bill told me at the beginning of the job in India was that the Indians took months to pay the first installment on the job. The wind turbines Gerry had Bill take down in Palm Desert were shipped to Bombay and sat in the harbor there for months till they finally paid and the turbines cleared customs. I saw Bill in Palm desert while he was breaking down the old turbines and putting them into very large containers before they were shipped to India.
May 3, 2014 at 6:41 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Google Gerry Monkhouse for info on some of his business deals he has going on in Baja and other areas.
May 3, 2014 at 7:05 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Speaking of 911… do you think the Indians got pissed off enough at Cannon Power, Gerry and Bill to do that to America? Hum…
May 3, 2014 at 7:19 pm
Anonymous
Once the thread moved to chemtrails it sure brought out the nutcases!
May 3, 2014 at 10:25 pm
Anonymous
“I changed my mind, eric…not sending you the pics.”
Translation: I don’t have the photos I claimed to have because I’m full of shit and making stuff up but don’t want to admit it.
May 4, 2014 at 2:05 am
Anonymous
“FYI just because I don’t know the names of the various cloudcovers doesn’t mean you’re any more or less aware of what’s happening in our shared environment than I am. I can’t name the layers of the atmosphere.”
Translation: I don’t know nothin’ about the atmosphere, or clouds, or meteorology — and despite being obsessed with contrails I’m too lazy to bother to learn even the most basic facts about these things — but gosh darn it, the fact that I’m stunningly ignorant shouldn’t be held against me when assessing my credibility!
May 4, 2014 at 3:06 am
suzy blah blah
-it’s a small world. We took a train from Austin to Dallas and then across to Albuquerque. It was kinda boring. I ended up sleeping most of the way. Then we rented a car and went up to see friends in Santa Fe and then drove north along the western slope to Grand Junction and took a left on I-70 to CA. We were close to Aspen. I saw what the area is like and that’s a great place to be from. We live on a beautiful piece of land here too but compared to the breathtaking vistas of the western slope of CO, its a modest beauty.
May 4, 2014 at 8:11 am
Anonymous
“Ive linked you to two sites which adress the issies from a perspective of science and youve responded to neither which is typical. ”
I understand the science behind contrails. I understand all that. You don’t get that this is something different, that you’re calling the yellow candy banana by default. You’re bananas. Whistleblowers? You haven’t addressed any of the issues related to how exactly what the “geoengineer institutes” describe is exactly what we can see right over our heads. You’re so hung up on nomenclature over empirical evidence…if I call your shoes a couple of tin cans, you’d think I thought you were barefoot. You’re overintellectualizing shit or something.
anon 10:25, you lose. You and eric are already living with blinders on, hasn’t been a difference in my day either way. Eric would look at the pics and somehow ho-hum them, or pass them around nad that’s exaclty what I don’t want him to do. You’re own auto response to “chemtrails” is like eric’s to the word “hitler”. Let’s just turn everything into an internet meme, reality be damned. You’re playing some kind of game, teaming a makebelieve pseudo-science side of things…staring at a computer screen rather than looking at the world around you.
May 4, 2014 at 8:23 am
Eric Kirk
It worked! They made it rain!
May 4, 2014 at 9:18 am
Anonymous
Not like you’d know the difference, ain’t that right eric? Some peoples reaction to stuff like chemtrails and the demolition of the twin towers is proof enough to me that y’all are just plain dumb. It’s like a trait, maybe genealogical? Science would support that conclusion…some people will never see the chemtrails through the clouds. Have a nice time!
May 4, 2014 at 9:21 am
Anonymous
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
That’s some sieg heil shit right there that you blindly chanted just like everybody.
May 4, 2014 at 10:22 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Grand Junction only shows the beginning of paradise. You got to go into Aspen to really see the most amazing beauty! Maroon Bells is calling me. Check out Gypsy Woman in Aspen online. Judy & Chester have been making beaded art work since I was just a little girl. So beautiful and they still have the same place I went to when I was living in Aspen. They are really good friends of my mentor and Aunt Tee. Tee is a gypsy and if not for her I would likely been dead long ago. I am a survivor. She protected me from harm and taught me not to get into so many of the drugs that she knew may harm me with the genetics we have in our family. People try and keep us apart but he lessons and love she gave to me will never die!
May 4, 2014 at 10:25 am
Eric Kirk
You know, you lost me in two places. Well three actually. Anon 10:25 is right, you can’t photograph what doesn’t exist. The second place was when you spoke of a “rainbow effect” in the contrails as evidence of substance other than water, when it’s water ice crystals which actually refract light and cause the effect – that you were clueless about that pretty much lost you credibility with anyone who took high school physics. The last one was when you attributed naturally occurring fibrous cirrus clouds to contrails, which revealed that you understand nothing of the phenomenon.
Basically, I have to respond to you the same way Bill Nye responded in his debate with Kevin Ham when the question arose as to what would change his mind. Ham’s response – “nothing.” He had the Bible. Nye’s response: “Evidence.”
The problem you have sir, is that you are a religious fanatic. You see what you want to see. The chemtrail conspiracy theory really took off in the 1990s, largely promoted by Art Bell, who used to air late night on all the right wing talk radio stations. He proclaimed himself a man of science, but his science was focused on drawing conclusions which appealed to the paranoia – and the embracing of paranoia – on the part of people who view themselves as mavericks, but are really easily manipulated herd animals. That is the charm of the darker side of American culture – the individualist perspective as expressed through collective transgression – which isn’t really transgression, because these theories are bought and consumed from an industry filled with anti-vac huchsters, 911 truther documentarians, and a slew of other politically oriented snake oil. People heard or read the theories on the internet and then looked up at the sky, probably for the first time since they never bothered to take an interest in astronomy or meteorology as a matter of science and curiosity, or any sense of the awe the universe really has to offer. And they saw what had always been there, but discovered it for the first time in the context of “look at what’s coming out of that airplane!”
Once you’re caught up in that mindset, all the scientific information in the world isn’t going to shake your faith. It fits your world view – which is mostly of yourself and your groupthink friends as intrepid heroes “speaking truth to power,” as if those who really have any power really care what some oddballs living way out in the middle of nowhere have to say in their podcasts, youtube videos, and blog posts.
And the real shame? There are some very real issues in play. Even some conspiracies. Topics that need real discussion, real action. Power loves this kind of thing actually. It undermines any real attempt to make the world a better place.
May 4, 2014 at 10:29 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Pretty sure Bill was in India when they scattered the ashes of Gerry Garcia. We did talk about the Grateful Dead after he brought up he was in that area when people were having Gerry Garcia ceremony. He did not really care for Grateful Dead or the followers if I remember correctly. I like some of his music but never got into it till I moved up to Northern California. A friend of mine was playing it and I really liked the bluegrass feel of his beat.
May 4, 2014 at 10:38 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Bill liked to listen to Art Bell and that other asshole on the radio
May 4, 2014 at 10:55 am
Anonymous
“The second place was when you spoke of a “rainbow effect” in the contrails as evidence of substance other than water, when it’s water ice crystals which actually refract light and cause the effect ”
There’s a complete loss of communication. I also stated that I fully comprehend natural contrail science, and I consider myself at least on par with general knowledge of all things environment. What you are in turn failing to comprehend is that the entire pattern of behavior has dramatically changed in a matter of less than a decade with absolutely zero official explanation as to how or why whatsoever. You don’t comprehend that you haven’t witnessed the transformation.
May 4, 2014 at 11:07 am
Anonymous
Skywatchers are cool. I’ve always admired those who admire the sky, and having paid close attention to the sky for the majority of my time on earth so far, I tell you, eric, that I’m right and you’re wrong. You’re just now starting to pay attention…good! Keep on with that and tell us what YOU see over the course of the next ten years. I’m telling you what I’ve seen over the course of the last 25, and that the last 5 have been pretty crazy. Chemtrails, dumbass.
May 4, 2014 at 11:29 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Is there any scientific evidence that Sandy Hook shooting really happened? Believe what you hear on the news as scientific evidence without seeing the true facts.
Doctors reports are not scientific evidence either as most of what they come up with in their reports are lies to satisfy our fucked up government and the judges who make the decisions to murder innocent victims. Straight GREED, Lies and Corruption. Nothing scientific about the shit our judicial system bases their decisions on. They dont give a rats ass about the truth because the only thing the judges look at are the fiction these Greedy ass doctors write to control the populations and herds of believers. Ridiculous!
May 4, 2014 at 11:40 am
Anonymous
“I understand the science behind contrails. I understand all that. You don’t get that this is something different.”
It’s pretty clear you do not understand the science behind contrails, because you keep pointing to completely normal, easily explainable phenomena and claiming they are evidence of “something different” than normal contrails. Your belief that something other than water must be involved to make a “rainbow effect” suggests that in addition to lacking understanding of the science of contrails, you also lack an understanding of basic science, period. Or even common sense.
“Eric would look at the pics and somehow ho-hum them, or pass them around nad that’s exaclty what I don’t want him to do.”
Perfect example of aggressively ignorant behavior — making claims and insisting that you have photographic evidence to back up your theory, but refusing to share the photos because you don’t want to have others critique your theory or point out scientifically-based explanations for the phenomena.
May 4, 2014 at 11:41 am
suzy blah blah
… real attempt to make the world a better place
-LOL! –yeah sure. .
Eric would look at the pics and somehow ho-hum them, or pass them around nad that’s exaclty what I don’t want him to do.
-don’t fall for the oldest trick in the book. Obviously he’s just been trying to set you up so he can go off on you. You don’t need to help him by supplying evidence. He’s not really interested in the issue, he never was, except to try and mock a joke of it. It’s called unconscious self-parody. He’s a typical fat, lazy, comfortable American, so why bother to look at the sky when there’s the shopping list to consider. He’s pledged his allegiance to the sci-tech/socialist agenda and they tell him what to believe, oh, and he paid his taxes, so “what’s on tv dear?” Genealogical? Maybe but i’d call it psychological and sociological. Or it maybe all three. His mother was a card carrying communist, so there you go –evidence.
May 4, 2014 at 11:52 am
suzy blah blah
-we got pretty near paradise when we visited Hotkiss. That was beautiful. Then we went to Grand Junction. That was a bit of a let down when the radiator overheated and we had to stop for while.
May 4, 2014 at 12:08 pm
suzy blah blah
-anyway i tried posting a photo image on here but it disappeared. I suppose it was deleted, or send to the spam folder or something. That’s the way EK rolls.
May 4, 2014 at 12:38 pm
Eric Kirk
So what if I would ho-hum them? Wouldn’t they speak for themselves?
May 4, 2014 at 1:18 pm
Anonymous
“Perfect example of aggressively ignorant behavior — making claims and insisting that you have photographic evidence to back up your theory, but refusing to share the photos because you don’t want to have others critique your theory or point out scientifically-based explanations for the phenomena.”
Nope. It’s because of assholes like you. You also don’t comprehend that what I’m communicating is a very rapid and dramatic change in the behavior of what the entire sky looks like throughout the day. Of course those are ice crystals formed by all that science. That’s the purpose, dipshit. You and eric both totally miss what countless people are saying. It’s basically like this: All the redwood transit busses started spewing green smoke and their numbers more than quadrupled, and you’re looking at them outside while they’re driving by your house spewing green smoke all the time and saying “they’ve always done that, that’s normal.”
May 4, 2014 at 1:21 pm
Anonymous
“So what if I would ho-hum them? Wouldn’t they speak for themselves?”
I said it has more to do with association. I’ve never cared that much and I’m nowhere near giving a shit enough to do more than type this on your dumb blog.
May 4, 2014 at 3:07 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, if you don’t care that much about it, why should anybody else? What are we arguing about? It’s no big deal.
Ice crystals aren’t formed by “science.” They’re formed by water vapor and cold temperatures. They make white patterns in the sky. There are about 50,000 commercial airports in the world, and in any given day about a hundred thousand commercial flights. That’s a lot of planes leaving contrails if the atmospheric conditions are right, and even remote rural areas are going to be under a slew of flight paths. There’s no mystery.
May 4, 2014 at 3:53 pm
Mitch
Maybe the thing to do, Eric, is just take the 1:18s at their word and recognize that none of us live on the same exalted plane of reality, probably because our brains haven’t been bathed in the same chemicals as 1:18’s.
May 4, 2014 at 3:56 pm
suzy blah blah
-man this issue sure brings out the defense mechanisms of the true believers in force. They’re all hot and bothered to prove you wrong. Funny thing is that for a lot of these TBs it’s a trend they just took up lately. The debunking fad. They’ve looked at the sky a few days. They’ve tuned in to cybercast news or read a book of propaganda or watched Stephen Colbert and now they are “experts” –LOL.
Fact is, the people who pull the strings of these puppets are interested in just that. Having them focus on one issue at a time. Look at the minute details not the big picture. And that’s the they try to divide us with scientific studies and statistical noise in order to drive a wedge into our unity that will split us into separate factions. The old divide and conquer routine. So it’s wise for us when challenged on specifics to remember how it’s all the same issue from chemtrails to sandy hoax to JfK to seven-eleven to the suspicious moon landing to ufos. Each of these false flags is another connection on the waterline, so to speak.
I know what suzy’s talking about from personal experience. If your garden needs h2o and there’s a leak in the water line on the next ridge you will get on a horse to go there to work on it, sure. But don’t get fooled into thinking that one leak is not part of a larger agenda (water line). You can lead a horse to the dots (leaks) but you can’t make him be patient and pay attention to you while you make the new connection. You have to tie him off at a short distance. If he could connect the dots himself you’d send off alone on the mission and when he fixed the leaks he’d be able to drink in the meaning from his bucket at the end of the line. But like these “debunkers” he’s not gonna be patient enough to learn the ways of the waterline, if you know what i mean, and/or its direction. He’s gonna go out there and try and drink from the spraying leak, eg, believe the false flag propaganda he’s fed and think the operation is real and that it’s just business as usual. Nothing but some airplanes doing the normal thing.
May 4, 2014 at 3:58 pm
suzy blah blah
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRB1vKQUEwcehNkBVjDhPz0vOQjRduIB2W2I2oCUO2WHxVozR3HoA
May 4, 2014 at 4:00 pm
suzy blah blah
-man this issue sure brings out the defense mechanisms of the true believers in force. They’re all hot and bothered to prove you wrong. Funny thing is that for a lot of these TBs it’s a trend they just took up lately. The debunking fad. They’ve looked at the sky a few days. They’ve tuned in to cybercast news or read a book of propaganda or watched Stephen Colbert and now they are “experts” –LOL.
Fact is, the people who pull the strings of these puppets are interested in just that. Having them focus on one issue at a time. Look at the minute details not the big picture. And that’s the they try to divide us with scientific studies and statistical noise in order to drive a wedge into our unity that will split us into separate factions. The old divide and conquer routine. So it’s wise for us when challenged on specifics to remember how it’s all the same issue from chemtrails to sandy hoax to JfK to seven-eleven to the suspicious moon landing to ufos. Each of these false flags is another connection on the waterline, so to speak.
I know what suzy’s talking about from personal experience. If your garden needs h2o and there’s a leak in the water line on the next ridge you will get on a horse to go there to work on it, sure. But don’t get fooled into thinking that one leak is not part of a larger agenda (water line). You can lead a horse to the dots (leaks) but you can’t make him be patient and pay attention to you while you make the new connection. You have to tie him off at a short distance. If he could connect the dots himself you’d send off alone on the mission and when he fixed the leaks he’d be able to drink in the meaning from his bucket at the end of the line. But like these “debunkers” he’s not gonna be patient enough to learn the ways of the waterline, if you know what i mean, and/or its direction. He’s gonna go out there and try and drink from the spraying leak, eg, believe the false flag propaganda he’s fed and think the operation is real and that it’s just business as usual. Nothing but some airplanes doing the normal thing.
May 4, 2014 at 6:05 pm
suzy blah blah
-Eric, i am beginning to understand that some of suzy’s comments, like the last one, go into moderation for awhile. Apparently til you allow them. I am not complaining of being censored or anything like that, my first thought is that it’s some kind of commuterland glitch that happens occasionally. But yesterday a long comment disappeared with no notice of being in moderation — apparently forever. Did you see that one? The one about Rod Deal and the hospital etc. Anyway it’s not big deal (pun half intended) but that’s what it looks like from here sometimes.
May 4, 2014 at 6:35 pm
suzy blah blah
I’m nowhere near giving a shit enough to do more than type this on your dumb blog
-like i said above, “you have to tie him off at a short distance.”
real power
-translation — the energy that powers the refrigerator and TV. The power which kicks ass around the globe with taxpayer’s money to protect EK’s freedom to sit on the couch and watch football and drink beer all day Sunday. And put his shoulder to the wheel Monday morning.
I like some of his music but never got into it till I moved up to Northern California
-jerry was a double agent from way back. Because he knew the more we come together to stand up against tyranny the better it will be for both sides.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZHljOGH8O07mxJVFsLwnCFYb8pQUXlYBf8bUiWWyXy1YXDD2gDQ
May 4, 2014 at 6:37 pm
A
“So what if I would ho-hum them? Wouldn’t they speak for themselves?”
Exactly. This person rests his case on “I see it with my own eyes” yet given an opportunity to show the ‘very massive formation of intersecting “contrails” he claims to be seeing, he refuses to do so.
May 4, 2014 at 7:26 pm
A
“It’s basically like this: All the redwood transit busses started spewing green smoke and their numbers more than quadrupled, and you’re looking at them outside while they’re driving by your house spewing green smoke all the time and saying ‘they’ve always done that, that’s normal.'”
LOL! Yeah, it’s just like that. Except that the contrails aren’t green and in fact look and behave the same as they always have (a fact for which there is plenty of historical photographic evidence which I have already linked to above), there are just more contrails because there are a LOT more planes in the air.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/growth-in-world-air-traffic-1970-present.2572/
In fact there are about 5 times as many flights today as there were in 1970, 2.5 times as many as there were in 1990.
Just a little while ago I was watching a huge set of clouds moving north at high speed, remaining almost entirely intact as they moved hundreds of miles from horizon to horizon. Contrails, being clouds, often do the same thing, drifting hundreds of miles nearly intact, under the right conditions. Which is one reason why people see them in places where they think they “shouldn’t be.”
Which is in addition to the fact that many people simply aren’t aware how much air traffic goes over or near their area — for example the poor clueless chemtrail nuts over in Mt. Shasta kept claiming that there were “only 4 flights a day” over their area, and on that basis claimed that the contrails they were seeing must be from something else (and that something would be “chemtrail spraying” planes, of course). Oops…as it turns out there are hundreds of flights per day over the skies these clowns insisted should be nearly empty:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-only-four-airliner-flights-day-over-mt-shasta-ca.622/
I found this graphic showing 24 hours of flights over Northern California especially interesting:
Bottom line: There are more contrails to be seen nowadays because there are more flights than there used to be. Way more.
May 4, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Anonymous
Tuesday’s pics, great two-pic panorama looking south to southwest toward downtown arcata from just north of arcata. A giant tic-tac-toe above with a couple too many long and lat lines, as well as one being formed. Also a pic of three contrails over the sky far off toward the north west, blue lake/fieldbrook, along with one being formed. Wednesday’s pics show a five shot time lapse over the course of about 10am to 3pm, looking south from the same location, of several east/west contrails, along with one being formed, collectively creating a uniform low lying cloud front over south arcata/eureka and undeterminably further south. Gotta be regular with your eyes to the sky to see the planes.
May 4, 2014 at 8:47 pm
A
Another thing that confuses people about seeing contrails where they think there “shouldn’t be” any (or “shouldn’t be” as many as there are), is that they’re usually drastically wrong about how far away the contrails are:
http://contrailscience.com/how-far-away-is-that-contrail/
So if you’re standing in the Arcata bottoms and you see a contrail that looks like it’s “over McKinleyville” the truth is that the contrail is actually many, many miles to the north. Depending on how close to the horizon it is, it could be as much as 100 miles away or more.
In order to more accurately estimate how far away the contrails are, all you need to know is approximate altitude and the approximate angle (compared to 90 degrees, directly overhead) where the contrail appears in the sky.
The “how far away is that contrail” link does a pretty good job of explaining this, and since most contrails are produced at roughly the same altitude, you can use the handy chart to estimate the distance of contrails that you see.
Then, the next time you see some where you think they “shouldn’t be,” if you’re seeing them as they’re being made, and do a decent job of estimating the distance of the plane, you can compare them to real-time FAA flight data:
http://www.flightradar24.com/40.8,-124.16/7
Click on any plane there and it will tell what the flight number is, where it left from and where it’s headed, and its current altitude. For instance, right now Polar Air Cargo Flight 997 from Los Angeles, bound for Seoul, South Korea, is passing over the King Range at an altitude of 35,975 feet.
In an area like ours, which has light/moderate air traffic, it’s actually quite easy to identify exactly which specific planes are making the contrails you see.
Of course an aggressively ignorant chemtrail true believer will not even try this, because of the danger that they might learn something that would contradict their precious conspiracy theory, which makes them feel special and gives meaning to their life.
May 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm
A
If it makes you feel any better, suzy, two of my comments from tonight also seem to be stuck in moderation, or in Eric’s “spam” folder, or whatever. I’m guessing it’s due to length or number or links, or both.
May 4, 2014 at 9:04 pm
Eric Kirk
Some great links anon, and yes, contrail and natural cirrus clouds are often much farther away and far larger than they look. A cirrus cloud can extend over a continent, and what you’re seeing in the sky may be hundreds of miles long, which is another reason it was particularly silly for the one poster to claim that what I saw was created from a contrail.
And Suzi, I don’t watch football, and drink beer very rarely – not so much about avoiding the alcohol as the carbs. My Sunday generally consists of yard work, coaching indoor soccer, tennis lessons with my daughter, my beginning of the week workout at the gym, and cooking up a Sunday dinner. Sometimes my wife drags me to Unitarian services, during which I sneak out to the beautiful grounds there and watch the ravens duel with the hawks under the chemtrails. Nice imagery though.
May 4, 2014 at 9:54 pm
suzy blah blah
-thanks A, that’s a kind of coming together in and sharing of common experience i s’pose. Suzy’s feeling all warm and fuzzy now. If you google it i bet there’s a 12 step program for the deleted. Ive had two posts not just go into moderation for a while but disappear altogether. I don’t really give a shit all that much but it’s curious. Suzy’s posted here for years and this never happened to me before. So if you want to save your comment maybe copy it before you hit send cuz it may go poof like a couple of mine did yesterday and today. One a was photo of mountains and sky with cloud formations. The other had a video link.
And Erik, i never said you sat on the couch and drank beer so don’t try to make this all about yourself. Reread it, suzy was talking about your freedom not your habits. Can you stay on topic and quit bragging about your kid’s soccer accomplishments all the time? Well okay i guess you can talk about your day if you want to, it’s your blog. It was actually starting to get good when you got to the part about your wife dragging you … but then it sort of petered out. It got a little too abstract for suzy. I guess the battle of hawks and ravens is a metaphor for your relationship. That sounds natural. But what do the chemtrails represent? Do you mean the Unitarians have been engineered. I’m going to youtube right now to find out about it..
May 4, 2014 at 10:14 pm
A
Just a few minutes ago, Cathay Pacific Flight 86, from Anchorage, bound for Los Angeles flew over the Eel River Delta, going southbound along the same flight path that Polar Air Cargo Flight 997 was on (northbound in that case) when I posted my last comment. If this was during the day, and atmospheric conditions were right for contrails to form, the two contrails would likely have appeared side by side (since the first one would have drifted some some distance before the second one came along),. At 36,000 feet, these parallel contrails would be visible from pretty much anywhere in Humboldt, and would have appeared to be “nearly overhead” anywhere in the Humboldt Bay/Eel River Delta area. This is why parallel contrails are not all that unusual, even in areas with light to moderate numbers of flight paths overhead/nearby — and in parts of the country where there is much more air traffic, they are quite common (along with “x”es and “#:s which form for the same reason, except with the addition of an intersecting flight path, as illustrated in the video I posted way upthread).
But you know, why even consider a simple, easily explained, scientifically sound, empirically confirmable explanation like that, when you can instead concoct a convoluted conspiracy theory based on rumor, misinformation, conjecture and faulty logic to explain the same thing!
May 4, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Anonymous
“so that’s 1 8 years of geoengineering conspiracy – and yet no whistleblowers? Not one with a conscience?” (Erik Kirk)
So Erik, if it takes 19 years, what would you say about your incessant mockery? (It took nearly that long before an AT&T employee outed the NSA’s domestic spy program, and another decade before Eric Snowden confirmed it!).
Honest to God, you cannot recall a single instance, among so many, where it took generations before the public became informed/aware of outrageous government practices that knowingly put public health at risk? Was your community never indiscriminately inundated with DDT or nuclear test fallout? Will another half-century elapse before people are told that fluoride accumulates in the thalamus with long-term effects on motivation? The list expands exponentially when considering government collusion in life-threatening corporate excesses.
There is clear and undisputed evidence that government scientists have been routinely working on programs to dispense mega tons of aluminum and barium particles into the atmosphere.
Outside of this fact, I’m not yet convinced it’s happening, however, knowing my nation’s history, I would never be so foolish to assume it is not being tested, nor so callous to mock those that are sure it is.
Mockery is an interesting human behavior that often masks irrational and exaggerated feelings of self-doubt, insecurity, and low self-esteem, temporarily relieved by condemning other’s beliefs.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled mockery, hope you feel better soon….
May 5, 2014 at 3:42 am
Just Watchin
I’m waiting for someone to blame the contrails on the ghost of Malaysia flight 370.
May 5, 2014 at 7:29 am
A
Or the other way around — maybe Flight 370 was brought down by chemtrails!
May 5, 2014 at 8:35 am
Mitch
“Outside of this fact, I’m not yet convinced it’s happening, however, knowing my nation’s history, I would never be so foolish to assume it is not being tested, nor so callous to mock those that are sure it is.”
In recent memory, the banks just stole half the GDP and tossed tens of thousands of people out of homes. Didn’t cause much of a kerfuffle.
Why on earth do you think that the government wouldn’t tell people about chem-trails? All they’d have to do is name it something like “High Altitude Safety Curtain for Freedom” and it would poll well.
Why do you think no EPA employee would become curious? Why do you think no State of California environment employee would become curious? Or a Stanford grad student? Or a high school student interested in flying?
Why is it just the usual suspects, after they’ve fried their brains?
May 5, 2014 at 8:43 am
Mitch
Off-topic (Ha!) but there’s a fantastic new bit of free software called Privacy Badger available free for Chrome and Firefox. You get a little badge on the right of your URL bar, click it, slide sliders to disable communication with third party ad providers, and places like the Lost Coast Outpost and the T-S improve quite a bit.
May 5, 2014 at 9:48 am
suzy blah blah
Mockery is an interesting human behavior that often masks irrational and exaggerated feelings of self-doubt, insecurity, and low self-esteem, temporarily relieved by condemning other’s beliefs.
-exactly. And right on cue JW pops in to illustrate your point –LOL!
May 5, 2014 at 10:09 am
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Dip Stick is the fuel truck driver who knows who’s who in those hills. He has been arrested twice since July 4th 2012 for DUIs go figure. They including Howard Hospital did nothing about the assault on Mothers Day but try to frame me as “in for the money” on their fiction reports. Chances are the cops got the loot and want to keep it so they avoid any conflict of interest that may retreat to giving the loot back to whoever it belongs to. Forming their own case based on lies and negligence.
May 5, 2014 at 10:20 am
Anonymous
What I notice is that people tend to object to mockery when it’s aimed at them or at people they happen to like or agree with, but have no problem aiming their own mockery at others. Pretty much the same as any other form of insult.
Hypocrisy
Is the greatest luxury
Raise the double standard!
– Disposable Heroes of HipHoprisy
May 5, 2014 at 12:44 pm
Mitch
Continuing off topic, here is someone who understands the true problem, and who is working to help others understand it:
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/23486-chris-hedges-capitalism-not-government-is-the-problem
May 5, 2014 at 1:15 pm
suzy blah blah
have no problem aiming their own mockery at others
-aiming it at others is part of the definition –duh.
May 5, 2014 at 2:23 pm
Anonymous
“In recent memory, the banks just stole half the GDP and tossed tens of thousands of people out of homes. Didn’t cause much of a kerfuffle.”
…except this story, and many others like it, quickly eclipse. And when a related story appears it’s usually reported entirely out of context. The Big Picture is effectively disappeared.
No conspiracy here…just good ol’ American self-censorship for perceived job preservation.
Not one community in Humboldt County knows how many foreclosures have taken place last year…or since the crash began in 2008. It’s never been reported. Not once.
Little surprise so few are voting while the development industry’s political hacks make preparations to facilitate the next housing bubble.
May 5, 2014 at 2:31 pm
Mitch
During my more paranoid moments, 2:23, I imagine the US government funding the more wacko of the conspiracy theorists as a low-cost way to ensure that nobody pays attention to the real disasters unfolding before our eyes.
We end up with movements that are rapidly dismissed by much of the public despite much of the public agreeing in principle with the arguments being presented. For every sane-sounding person trying to point out the obvious, the cameras will move ten feet to find five crazies explaining how chemtrails are government mind-control.
May 5, 2014 at 3:14 pm
suzy blah blah
During my more paranoid moments, 2:23, I imagine the US government funding the more wacko of the conspiracy theorists
-no, we’re funded by the capitalists!
May 5, 2014 at 5:25 pm
Almanriver
http://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/content/aluminum
Aluminum science, more than you ever wanted to know about military chaff, upper atmospheric testing, health standards and studies,rocket fuel concerns, weather modification applications, and those California water samples I linked to previously. pdf heaven.
May 5, 2014 at 6:06 pm
olmanriver
A pilot chimes in on RationalwWiki
” A new guy chimes in.
CHEMTRAIL NOTE: I have been in the commercial aviation industry since 1983, and we presently hold a database of all commercial flights departing the UK. One of the tools I use occasionally is called planefinder.net, which has all ADS-B aircraft (CAA flights) on it, with the exception of FlyBe, a small operator with short haul flights, whose routes we are aware of. Planefinder gives all commercial traffic in real time on an iphone or PC.
I live in Bedford and about four days a week we have grids of solid white material coming out of planes that start in the south of the town, going east-west and then working further north during the day. We hardly get any bluie sies, even in the height of summer – cumulus clouds are of course obvious but these artificial ones begin as solid streams from 2 or 4 engine jets, spreading over a period of some hours into wispy filaments which stay in the air most of the day. By late morning the skies are already a milky, diffused white and direct sunlight cannot get through.
I first noticed these “chemtrails” about two years ago so in the last few months have used planefinder to verify that the “spray planes” are NOT CAA aircraft. I have contacts within the CAA who assure me that no civil airliners have been authorised to have modifications either to the fuel or to equipment which would spray chemicals into the exhaust of the jets themselves. They did, however, say they could not speak for the MoD.
Either way, the suspicious thing is that not one single spray plane I have spotted in the last 5 months from our offices – probably more than 100 separate occasions – has appeared on planefinder. The same reports have come from colleagues known to me in Maidstone, Putney, Glasgow, LLandudno, Slough, Dublin, Toronto, Hamilton (Ontario), Los Angeles, Milan, Alicante and even the Greek Islands.
On the hottest days of the year 2012, I happened to be in both Bedford and London, and saw vast swathes of tic-tac-toe grids overhead, when weather balloon data combined with the Appleman chart show contrails should not form at all, let alone persist all day. What I notice is that regardless of relative humidity %, temperature, apparent altitude, time of year, time of day or wind conditions, these uniquely identifiable sprays look identical. They have identical persistence, and identical dissipation rates, which is impossible for condensation, that is, to behave in the same way under any and all seasonal and temperature conditions, etc.
Very simply put, nobody can explain to me why these planes do not show up on either our database of UK flights, or on CAA radar systems. So it seems that denying their existence contradicts observed evidence, and my feedback from tour operators is that they do not like being blamed for this activity, a perception people have as most are not aware of how simple it is to check the civil or military nature of flights directly overhead at any time.
My conclusion is that chemtrails are a genuine phenomena, but nobody has explained what is being sprayed, or why.”
May 5, 2014 at 7:03 pm
suzy blah blah
saw vast swathes of tic-tac-toe grids overhead
-must be either lying, on drugs, or a paid capitalist misinformation engineer.
May 5, 2014 at 8:18 pm
Anonymous
“For every sane-sounding person trying to point out the obvious, the cameras will move ten feet to find five crazies explaining how chemtrails are government mind-control.”
As I pointed out above, “sane persons trying to point out the obvious” rarely, if ever, receive the light of day in the media and when they do it is generally absent of context. You can practically count on one hand the number of times Noam Chomsky ever appeared in mainstream media over the last 50 years.
Did someone claim chemtrails are “mind control” in this string? In fact, I haven’t once seen chemtrails reported in any mainstream media source, so it’s patently unfair, if not purposely deceptive, to blame the public’s distraction from “bigger issues” on injurious government experimentation programs that have often turned out to be much worse than the “paranoids” assumed.
(Maybe that’s because the definition of “paranoid” is someone that only knows a little bit about something).
Have you never read “The Plutonium Files” documenting government experimentation on mostly poor, black Americans injected with trace amounts of plutonium in the 1950’s to “see what would happen”. It’s a detailed, footnoted masterpiece that should have rightfully distracted the American public briefly had it ever been reported in the media.
Have you forgotten the 1950’s Tuskegee experiments where poor blacks were injected with syphilis to “see what would happen” if untreated?
Disbelieving other’s concerns is one thing.
Mocking then is quite another.
May 5, 2014 at 8:44 pm
Mitch
Anonymous 8:18,
Yes, scientists and medical professionals committed a multi-decade atrocity against poor rural blacks, and it was not exposed until the 1970s.
I find it difficult to see that as support for the possibility that the government is spraying chemicals over Northern California and has managed to cover it up from the entire mainstream media.
That’s just me.
And you correctly point out that it was mistaken of me to suggest that sane people are passed over in order to find people claiming chemtrails are mind control. I was wrong to use that specific example.
On the other hand, I went to the metabunk link someone provided above and read four pages of people practically begging the pilot quoted by olmanriver at 6:06 to work with them, on one issue at a time, to see if they couldn’t come to agreement. I suppose different people will read that lengthy exchange in different ways, but I read it as showing the pilot was simply unwilling to deal with people who were bending over backwards to work with him.
I guess we each filter information through our past experiences.
May 5, 2014 at 8:50 pm
olmanriver
Discovery channel had a program on Chemtrails, it is still on utube. This link will take you Anon to the direct (sometimes defunct) links and utubes for a Toxic Skies special on May 24, 2006, NBC4, Los Angeles, and a show from Louisiana, Chemtrails: Is U.S. Gov’t. Secretly Testing Americans ‘Again’? November 9, 2007, KSLA-TV (CBS affiliate in Shreveport, LA).
There is also the WSJ article on the open-air tests of biological agents that were conducted 239 times between 1949-69, and the tests over SF.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/g/chemtrails
May 5, 2014 at 9:39 pm
suzy blah blah
-suzy’s hope is that the crop circles will mitigate the effects of the chemtrails.
May 5, 2014 at 10:04 pm
Anonymous
The Hills, 11
Kate Durbin
“Left this city for a day,” sings The Feeling. Shot of two men from the waist down on a sunny sidewalk. One in surf shorts holds a blue Powerade; one in white dress pants walks a Lhasa Apso. Shot of a crowd of people on the sidewalk from the waist up. Shot of two blonde girls in pink tank tops and short white shorts, walking toward the camera. They are slightly out of focus. Their bodies are fit and tan and they are wearing clogs. Close-up of a black stretch limo with a white Playboy bunny emblem on the side. The limo passes the camera. A tan BMW passes the camera. “You took me southwards on a plane and showed me Spain,” continues the song. A drilling sound joins the song. Shot of the outside of a beige apartment complex. The sign says: “Heidi and Spencer’s Apartment, Hollywood, CA.” Shot of a blender whirring with purple liquid inside. A man’s tan hand presses the top of the blender down. The machine is industrial. Next to the blender are a blue plastic cup, a white container of protein Milk mix, and a bottle of Bragg’s Liquid Amino Acids. Behind the blender are two bottles of champagne. Wider angle shot of the blender and the man with the hand. His hair is curly blonde and he is wearing a black t-shirt with unreadable white letters. White letters appear in the right hand bottom corner of the screen. They say: “Spencer, Heidi’s Boyfriend.” “I liked,” begins a girl’s voice. Shot of Heidi’s face. She is not wearing makeup. The screen says “Heidi.” “All your friends last night,” Heidi continues in a sing-song voice. She bats her eyelashes and shrugs. Shot of Spencer in the kitchen. He is looking down at the counter and doing something below the camera’s view. “You know, they love you,” he says, smiling at the counter. Shot of Heidi. She has on a grey hoodie with a navy rose print. “They seem very nice, all of them,” she says. She waves some papers mostly out of the camera’s view. Behind her is a large flat screen TV, turned off. Shot of Spencer. “Oh, Frankie invited us to his birthday party at Les Deux tonight,” he says. There is a sound of papers shuffling. Shot of Heidi on a cream couch. The couch appears to have a raised floral print. Heidi holds letters in her hand. “Oh yeah?” she says. Heidi shuffles the letters around. Several of them appear to be opened. Shot of Spencer. He stares at the bottle of Liquid Aminos he is holding in front of his face. “Is um Lauren going?” Heidi asks. Spencer puts the bottle down. Shot of Heidi. She looks at her French-manicured fingernails, then makes a fist and twirls it. Shot of Spencer. It is now possible to read the letters on his shirt. They say “Innovation Management.” “Uh she actually just called me, I just missed her call uh uh I’ll call her back and ask her and see what she says,” he says, smiling. His teeth are white. He looks down at something he is doing on the counter. “I wish that Audrina,” Heidi interrupts. Shot of Heidi on the couch. “—and Lauren would have come last night,” Heidi finishes. She twirls her hand, mostly out of the frame. Shot of Spencer in the kitchen. He is moving around a lot. “I mean I totally accept that she doesn’t like me,” Spencer says. Shot of Heidi. “Yeah,” says Heidi, grimacing. “But she shouldn’t take that out on you,” continues Spencer. “I know,” says Heidi, furrowing her brow. “Our friendship shouldn’t suffer from it,” she mumbles, looking down. Punky guitar music begins. “There’s something wrong here,” sings Cori Yarckin. Shot of Spencer in the kitchen, hands pressed to the counter. He looks to the side then to the front again. He opens and shuts his mouth. Shot of Heidi. She shakes her head. Her eyes shift back and forth.
May 5, 2014 at 10:31 pm
Anonymous
“I find it difficult to see that (recent government experimentation on humans) as support for the possibility that the government is spraying (elements) chemicals over Northern California and has managed to cover it up from the entire mainstream media.”
I was never asking for support, I was never supporting something I’m not sure is happening.
Once again, considering this nation’s government/corporate/media history, and the years of geo-engineering research on the same issue, it is ignorant to assume it is absolutely not being tested to some degree. It is equally ignorant and cruel to mock those that are rightfully concerned.
Worse still…the compunction to embellish the mockery with “mind control”, “space elevators”, “crop circles”, “foil hats”, etc, are far more convincing illustrations of personality dysfunctions that are sadistic and demeaning in a schadenfreude sense.
People that are confident in their opinions (and self) have no need for exaggerated attacks.
May 5, 2014 at 11:13 pm
Anonymous
“People that are confident in their opinions (and self) have no need for exaggerated attacks.”
Then apparently you are not confident in your opinions, as you seem to have a strong need for exaggerated attacks. (“ignorant,” “cruel,” “personality dysfunctions,” “sadistic” and that’s all in just that one comment).
Physician, heal thyself.
May 6, 2014 at 12:12 am
A
“What I notice is that regardless of relative humidity %, temperature, apparent altitude, time of year, time of day or wind conditions, these uniquely identifiable sprays look identical. They have identical persistence, and identical dissipation rates, which is impossible for condensation, that is, to behave in the same way under any and all seasonal and temperature conditions, etc.”
Must be a magical substance, because not only is that impossible for condensation, it’s impossible for any other substance. Seriously, this guy, who claims to be a pilot, believes that there is some substance you can spray in the sky that will persist/dissipate exactly the same no matter what the wind speed is? Given the impossibility of that claim, it’s hard not to conclude that either he’s a really poor observer suffering from confirmation bias, or (what seems most likely) he’s just another chemtrail hoaxster making stuff up. I wonder if he has a policy, similar to our light blue anon chemtrail true believer, of refusing to share photos of the phenomena he claims to see every day and that should therefore be extremely easy to document?
At any rate, what he’s describing is not what the chemtrail believers on this thread have been reporting. They’ve been reporting trails that sometimes persist for long periods, sometimes quickly spread to become cirrus clouds, sometimes are the only clouds in an otherwise blue sky, sometimes create a “rainbow effect,” etc — in other words they are reporting all the things that normal contrails do under different atmospheric conditions.
As far as the guy’s claims that he’s seeing lots of planes that he can’t find on his online tracking program, I can’t speak to that directly because I don’t live there. I do live here, and (unlike the chemtrail true believers here, apparently) I have actually taken the time to compare FAA flight path data with actual contrails I see here (including parallel ones and a few intersecting ones, including ones that spread to form cirrus clouds and ones that persist intact a long time and ones that are the only clouds in an otherwise blue sky) and didn’t have any difficulty identifying plenty of specific known commercial flights creating contrails that behaved in all of these different ways. So, rather than take someone else’s word for it, why not try it yourself?
I’ve given you the tools to get fairly accurate estimates of distance, and a website where you can get real-time and near-real-time (5 minute delay) tracks and details of commercial air traffic in our area. I’m not sure how much easier I could make it for you folks.
I wonder how many people are aware that we have some well-traveled fight paths above us, for air traffic en route to Asia. My guess is most chemtrail believers have never bothered to look into it, believing that the only flights they should see would be the relatively few in and out of our airport. Nope, not true. As I pointed out last night, there’s both passenger and cargo service to Korea, China, etc., that pass over us, as well as flights to and from Alaska . We’re not an especially heavily traveled area compared to some parts of the country, but there is plenty of scheduled air traffic to account for the actual contrails we see here. But again, don’t take my word for it, check it out for yourself.
May 6, 2014 at 12:36 am
A
And Korean Air Lines Flight 12 bound for Seoul, South Korea is not far behind that, following the same flight path, and then just behind KAL12 is AAR203, Asiana Airlines Flight 203, also bound for South Korea and also following the same flight path. Again, given that the contrails (when conditions are right for them to form in the first place) will usually drift to one side by the time the next plane comes along, is it really that hard to understand how parallel contrails are formed?
May 6, 2014 at 12:53 am
A
Meanwhile, here comes KAL6, Korean Airlines headed to Seoul from Las Vegas, on an intersecting flight path to the north of us, but well within visual range for its contrail (if it was daytime and if atmospheric conditions were right for contrail formation), and even more so if the wind direction happened to cause the contrail to drift a bit in our direction. This would form an “x.” with any contrail from the other planes I mentioned in my last two comments. One more intersecting contrail in each direction, plus a little bit of normal drift, and then you’d have a “tic-tac-toe” or “grid.”
Seriously, folks, check it out — even aside from the contrail / “chemtrail” issue, it’s kind of interesting to see how many flights there are over and around our area over the course of a day. Most times I look at the site there are numerous flights passing over or immediately adjacent to Humboldt County every hour, along several flight paths, some of which intersect.
Again, here’s the site:
http://www.flightradar24.com/40.32,-122.49/7
May 6, 2014 at 1:20 am
A
By the way, you may be wondering why so many flights from Los Angeles to Asia would even be passing over our area in the first place. And it’s understandable if you were wondering that, because if you look at a flat map of the world, like a Mercator projection for example, it appears as if the shortest route from Los Angeles to Asia would be pretty much straight west. But if you take a length of string to a globe, you will soon realize that’s not the case at all. In fact the shortest path from LA to Seoul, South Korea comes surprisingly close to us:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distanceresult.html%3Fp1=137&p2=235
And then there’s another factor, which is that some of these flights have a layover in Anchorage, Alaska. Which, as it turns out, is not as far out of their way as you might think, for the same reason.
May 6, 2014 at 10:15 am
suzy blah blah
I was never asking for support, I was never supporting something I’m not sure is happening.
-then why the defensiveness? It seems now that you’ve painted yourself into a corner that all of a sudden you start changing your story. It looks to suzy, just from the evasions when asked about qualifying your claims, and the excuses for not sending us your supposed photographic evidence, that you’re wearing a tinfoil hat. I’m saying it looks like it. I’m not saying i have absolute proof, or even evidence that the inventions in your mind are anything beyond what i’ve observed over time. Which is, first of all you changed your tune more than once on this “mocking” element that’s been in the air lately. Now the whole atmosphere has been clouded by your going back and forth over it. Do you realize what’s coming out of you? Where are you taking this anyway, and where are you coming from? It’s hard to place you on the chart anymore. Seems you can’t make up your mind about anything not to mention what you may have implied is overhead. But now it’s too windy to wave the false flag. Your trail has dissipated. Literally.
May 6, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Dave Kirby
OMR…..There are dozens of programs on T.V. every week that purport to show the existence of everything from Bigfoot to Ancient Aliens. Citing a Discovery Channel show from 06 as a reference to the reality of “chemtrails” is pretty weak. Discovery has as much mumbo jumbo on as any channel on the air. The KSLA program has already been exposed as a hoax. And the numbers quoted as to the amount supposed chemicals detected on the ground have been shown to be the product of misplaced decimal points in their calculation. As to your “pilot chimes in”. What makes you think this dingbat is a pilot? He could be a security guard and still be “in the commercial aviation industry. The irony here is that you can be so skeptical in general and so gullible on some dopey conspiracy theory.
May 6, 2014 at 3:42 pm
A
The KSLA report was completely botched, as documented here:
http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/
Not necessarily a “hoax” as such, as the errors don’t appear to have been intentional. More like a case of really sloppy amateur sampling methods (a couple of bowls left on the hood of a truck for months, gathering dust, before it finally rained and then presented as being results for pure rainwater) together with, as Dave Kirby mentioned, a major mistake with the math. (Not unlike all the sloppily conducted Mr. Shasta area samples submitted by chemtrail believers, and incorrectly interpreted by them as well.)
In the case of the KSLA report it was both sloppiness by the chemtrail believer who took the samples, and sloppiness by the reporter and failure to do his homework or consult a bona fide expert to review the supposed findings. The reporter, to his credit, quickly acknowledged and took responsibility for his error and corrected the story, but of course the uncorrected version is still circulated widely by chemtrail believers.
By the way, Old Man River could save himself and the rest of us some time by checking any of these claims with the contrailscience website and the chemtrail forum on the metabunk website, as they address, quite thoroughly, pretty much every one of the claims he’s posted on this site.
How about it, OMR — how about doing your homework before posting, rather than expecting others to do it for you after the fact?
May 6, 2014 at 3:44 pm
olmanriver
Citing a Discovery Channel show from 06 as a reference to the reality of “chemtrails” is pretty weak
Hey Dave, One of our Anons had said he had never seen anything in the MSM on the topic and that is why I linked to those MSM programs.
In the beginning of this thread, I wanted to bait the Officer Barbrady crowd, (I actually made two posts that I thought would get pounced on that didn’t) but mostly I like to get info out there about what people are seeing around the world, and what is being said. And to repeat myself, the phenomena is often observed in areas that have little commercial traffic.
The Discover channel was definitely lame, in the end, they said the military wouldn’t let them study their fuel formula… duh.
I love the realtime flight programs, that is partly why I put the alleged Pilot’s report up, he has another link to find out what is overhead. Next time I am near the town highspeed and I see a persistent contrail I get to look to identify the flight, how cool is that? I have seen so many planes leaving these trails crossing the Sohum sky in a SSE/NNW diagonal over the years, this should help determine whether they are commercial or military as I have supposed, and inferred from some of the anomalous observations I have made.
Because it got tied up in moderation, I am repeating this link to technical papers, hundreds of them….. all about what the military and government have done with Aluminum, including sections on its use by the military chaff, and weather modification, and the states water readings (at the very bottom) that were previously linked to …. http://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/content/aluminum
I believe this mountain of technical pdfs holds proof that aluminum has been used, or has been studied to be used for many of the things we have talked about here. Did you scan down the page? The chaff section begins a little over a third of the way down. Let everyone sort out for themselves the wheat from the…uh.. chaff.
May 6, 2014 at 3:47 pm
A
I mean once or twice is understandable, but to just keep throwing more and more bogus stuff up and waiting for others to knock it down, when the corrections/clarifications/rebuttals/debunkings are readily available on sources that have already been pointed out to you seems like either laziness and/or an obnoxious lack of concern for the truth — or else a purposeful intent to mislead and deceive. I certainly hope it’s not the latter, but I’m starting to wonder.
May 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm
A
” I have seen so many planes leaving these trails crossing the Sohum sky in a SSE/NNW diagonal over the years, this should help determine whether they are commercial or military as I have supposed, and inferred from some of the anomalous observations I have made.”
That SSE/NW diagonal is precisely the fairly heavily traveled flight path for commercial flights to and from Asia that I was referred to above. Despite the scolding I offered a moment ago (before I saw your last comment) I applaud you for being open to checking out the source I offered. I think you’ll find that the vast majority of flights in that SSE/NNW flight path will be commercial passenger or cargo planes headed to and from Asia, and some from Anchorage Alaska.
Right now, for example CCA983,, Air China service from Beijing, China to Los Angeles, is approaching us from the NNW on exactly this flight path. RIght now it’s a few hundred miles to the west of Coos Bay, so I expect it will be (roughly) overhead in the King Range and SoHum within the hour. Gotta go now, or I’d offer to stand by and keep you posted and you could try to spot it if there happened to be a contrail.
May 6, 2014 at 4:08 pm
A
Meanwhile, CI5, China Airlines service from Los Angeles to Tapei, is over the SF bay area right now, and appears to be on the same flight path, headed NNW, so should be (roughly) overhead in the King Range and SoHum in a couple of hours. These planes pass each other in opposite directions on that flight path all the time, often directly above or below each other separated by just 1,000 feet elevation (yikes!). O.K., now I really gotta go!
May 6, 2014 at 4:45 pm
suzy blah blah
-i know the TBs think they know everything but it could be there’s a reason for the contrails that science hasn’t figured out yet.
May 6, 2014 at 5:26 pm
Mitch
God likes contrails.
May 6, 2014 at 6:03 pm
Anonymous
“You also don’t comprehend that what I’m communicating is a very rapid and dramatic change in the behavior of what the entire sky looks like throughout the day.”
People are pointing to the sky, and without having seen what’s being talked about, eric’s pointing to the computer screen. Eric literally doesn’t even know what he’s talking about.
May 6, 2014 at 6:30 pm
olmanriver
I appreciate that you have done the homework on the issues of 1 or 2 of the Mt. Shasta readings, the San Bernadino metal readings, and posting a way to read the planes overhead. Can’t wait to check it out, and the similar one I posted when I get to town next.
I will be watching the SE sky til dark, all nice puffy clouds for two days, obviously 🙂 the conditions aren’t right for contrails, but I will stay on high alert this evening.
There is a clip of a FedEx pilot having a near miss with two chemtrail planes that I haven’t seen, better go to debunk….
I am sorry if my comments lag so behind previous comments to which I am responding, my landline takes 5 minutes to load, refreshing a few times, to see comments before I send.
May 6, 2014 at 6:36 pm
suzy blah blah
-i didn’t know God was on Facebook Mitch.
May 6, 2014 at 6:45 pm
olmanriver
Debunked! The Fedex utube was previously an Air India video. Loving the metabunk site. Fun reads.
May 6, 2014 at 8:42 pm
A
Thanks OMR, I appreciate the appreciation, and I give you a lot of credit for acknowledging convincing countervailing evidence when it has been presented. For about the first time on this thread I feel like maybe this hasn’t all been a complete waste of time. The light blue anonymous who claims to have pictures of “massive formations” and “huge grids,” but won’t share them with anyone, seems to have receded into increasing generalities about other people not seeing obvious patterns he’s seeing. Well, O.K., but there doesn’t seem to be any way to address or resolve those claims, so it just doesn’t lead anywhere.
Feel like I’m kind of nitpicking now, but if you followed the links about the Mt Shasta readings, it wasn’t just problems with one or two of them. There were the pond sludge ones, the dirty snowpack ones, the dried up mud puddle ones, the dusty rain gauges ones, and some others as well. I have yet to see an example of a single test that was done by the chemtrail believers around Mt. Shasta that did not have very serious problems with their methodology and/or analysis. I realize they’ve claimed there were 40-something samples that all showed elevated levels of aluminum (and maybe other stuff too), but all the ones they’ve actually publicized — presumably their best evidence — were completely bogus.
The metabunk site is pretty cool, in part because there are some participants there that are both very knowledgeable, and also incredibly patient with the believers and with “chemtrail-curious” but still open-minded people, and will engage with their points very specifically and for the most part fairly respectfully (at least as long as the believers continue to engage the same way…which unfortunately is usually not for very long). The moderators and frequent commenters there show a lot more patience and respect than I can muster sometimes.
The same goes for the comment threads on the contrailscience site (unfortunately no longer accepting new comments, as I think the moderator eventually decided to just move that comment traffic to metabunk). The articles and photos on the contrailscience website are also excellent. Basically I would encourage any “chemtrail-curious” person with an open mind to check out those two sites thoroughly and then point out if there is anything they are seeing — in the sky or on the internet — that is not adequately covered on those sites.
May 6, 2014 at 9:00 pm
suzy blah blah
Eric literally doesn’t even know what he’s talking about.
-if you posted some of your pics here and he commented on them then we could all know exactly what he’s talking about, uh, literally.
May 7, 2014 at 5:29 am
olmanriver
That site has some good stuff, not that I agree with all of it, but we certainly eliminated some of the lamer net stuff, particularly some of the metal readings. It is good to consider different explanations. I did learn that chaff doesn’t come out as ‘trails’.
I am very curious to see what those sites tell me on a day when there are half a dozen planes overhead laying it down, and I am not convinced that the worldwide increase in sightings has been explained, particularly what seems to be military activities in areas with few commercial overflights. That sight claims that there is 50% more air traffic, other sites say it has increased 2% a year since 2000. Some say there is more moisture in the troposphere from GW, others say no. Still questions out there, but we whittled down some of the bogus info, didn’t we?
Still a ‘believer’ but better informed, thank you.
May 7, 2014 at 2:36 pm
Eric Kirk
One more link to consider, and I would add that dihydrogen monoxide is indeed very dangerous stuff – probably killed more people than any other single chemical compound!
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/04/chemtrail-scare-its-that-damn-dihydrogen-monoxide/
May 7, 2014 at 4:02 pm
Mitch
Eric,
Not only does this video demonstrate the obvious differences between contrails and chemtrails, it has a great musical track. And, for those who watch to the end, there’s an audio bonus as well.
I’ve done a search for dihydrogen monoxide in the mainstream media. Nothing. As you’d expect.
May 7, 2014 at 4:11 pm
Just Watchin
Following this thread reminds me of a class debate I remember. It was the fifth grade…….12 years old. Think about that for a second.
May 7, 2014 at 4:15 pm
Mitch
Eric,
I try to keep an open mind. Sometimes it pays off. I’ve finally found the smoking gun.
Here’s a guy who secretly filmed some of the agents. The chemtrail pilots were pretty clever, but they never should have put up the sign on the road advertising Weather Modification — to a sharp citizen, it was a dead giveaway. Professional post-production, too!
May 7, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Mitch
Someone’s been tampering with my computer, and they blacked out my smoking gun video with one I’d already managed to post. I’ll try again.
May 7, 2014 at 4:55 pm
Just Watchin
Mitch….you have a net worth of 100 million bucks, and have a computer that isn’t “tamperproof”?
May 7, 2014 at 5:44 pm
suzy blah blah
-they had a debate on chemtrails when you were in fifth grade JW? I don’t think so. Suzy’d like to see photos from the year book. Was that West Palm Beach Elementary School? 1956? … If you want to enter this discussion you’d better do your homework and get your facts straight. And be aware of the hall monitor’s new moderation program.
May 7, 2014 at 5:50 pm
Anonymous
“You also don’t comprehend that what I’m communicating is a very rapid and dramatic change in the behavior of what the entire sky looks like throughout the day.”
Your link is meaningless, eric. This is Humboldt county, California. The sky above Humboldt looks different. Over the last five years (closer to three), the number of high altitude airplanes flying overhead has at least quadrupled, only on occasion, and “chemtrails” of some sort are being sprayed from them creating artificial cloudcover, often on otherwise completely cloudless days, often for days at a time. Have fun googling your reality for the rest of your life.
May 8, 2014 at 3:57 pm
Anonymous
“Then apparently you are not confident in your opinions, as you seem to have a strong need for exaggerated attacks. (“ignorant,” “cruel,” “personality dysfunctions,” “sadistic” and that’s all in just that one comment).” (Anonymous 11:13).
You are mistaken.
Each is an accurate possible explanation for the endless and cruel insults in this long string against those that are (right or wrong) expressing concern over an issue on which scientists are researching years of executable scenarios. Thus, NONE are exaggerations!
These are exaggerations:
“Ancient Aliens, Big Foot, mind control, space elevators, crop circles, foil hats”: these are gratuitous insults used to dismiss and degrade other’s concerns that could, in the end, prove true to an extent much worse than imagined, IF HISTORY IS ANY INDICATION.
Taking obvious pleasure in cruel, dismissive insults is schadenfreude.
Such cruelty generously spewed from “rural homesteaders” that otherwise pride themselves on tolerance is a disgusting and very sad display.
May 8, 2014 at 4:42 pm
suzy blah blah
People that are confident in their opinions (and self)
-are the most dangerous of the deluded. And that’s no exaggeration.
May 8, 2014 at 4:56 pm
Anonymous
Doesn’t change the color of your shoes when somebody makes fun of the color of your shoes.
May 8, 2014 at 8:15 pm
suzy blah blah
-some people will wear brown shoes throughout their whole life no matter how much evidence … oh never mind.
May 9, 2014 at 1:52 am
Narration
The thing is, suzy, you never give anyone the chance to take a measured and open tone with you. You’re always on the air, always trying to dominate, and always trying to deny — unless you already believe your conversant is weaker.
I know you can do better, but you have to show so, right? This is something to learn, and I guess we all have to go through learning it…
May 9, 2014 at 6:16 am
Liberal Jon
Dihydrogen monoxide has been a concern of other anons on other threads too. Just so you know. This might be something worth investigating because it’s coming up quite a bit.
“Water can be toxic, depending on how much you drink, so it is a decent analogy.”
Also, I miss FQ!
May 9, 2014 at 9:32 am
Narration
I miss Forest Queen too. I think her poetics and her warmth and her intelligence are misunderstood, and I enjoy the strength of her ideas, whether or not like the rest of us she may carry them a bit far sometimes.
It’s not nonsense, and this is an open forum, right? We can always remind her as others, if she gets carried away.
May 9, 2014 at 10:16 am
suzy blah blah
-sorry Narrator you had your chance.
Jon — http://forestqueen2020.wordpress.com/
May 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm
Just Watchin
FQ was a freakin nut.
May 9, 2014 at 2:34 pm
suzy blah blah
-no matter what excuse Eric came up with Forest was banned because her extensive knowledge of the law embarrassed him. His sophomoric understanding and half-baked claims were compromised by her insightful pronouncements and challenged by her by her in depth research .
May 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm
Narration
Er, what chance was that, suzy, perchance?
I like Forest’s site – it’s pretty, has those sort of Chinese chesspersons, and lays out some of her points very clearly.
Maybe it can let her more personal self back in here, having taken care of that.
Because it’s nice to know a person, and appreciate their friendly side, which we did….and do…
Hope it’s as nice today up there for each of you, including Eric and John, as it is down here.
May 9, 2014 at 4:57 pm
suzy blah blah
Er, what chance was that, suzy, perchance?
-the chance to see that you are a slave. To see the prison that surrounds you and keeps you locked in. But you didn’t want to see it, Nar. You wanted suzy to explain it to you instead.
May 9, 2014 at 6:53 pm
Narration
Suzy, I’m afraid you’re a bit out of your tree here, and you would think so also, if you knew anything about my life or lives, past or present.
Understanding the needs to be kind does not mean we have fallen in a pit.
Very complicated beings, each of we humans, and worth in individually appreciating that.
May 9, 2014 at 7:29 pm
Eric Kirk
Forest Queen was banned because I received about half a dozen complaints from people telling me offline that they no longer come here because she dominates every thread and dilutes every discussion with incoherent nonsense, apparently just for kicks. I gave several warnings.
The last straw was a thread in which there had been a very interesting discussion which dissolved when she made about 7 or 9 straight nonsensical posts – the discussion was dead.
I don’t actually remember anything she posted about law. I’m sure she did, but nothing that struck me as anything intellectually memorable.
There are plenty of other blogs for her to play her games on. She can start her own.
May 9, 2014 at 7:57 pm
A
“Forest was banned because her extensive knowledge of the law….
LOL!
Here is a comment from another blog, that was directed at another commenter, but it’s a great description of FQ’s “extensive knowledge of the law.”
May 9, 2014 at 8:01 pm
A
“There are plenty of other blogs for her to play her games on. She can start her own.”
She did, quite some time ago. But she kept coming here to dump her batshit crazy rants, because, not surprisingly, no one was going there to voluntarily subject themselves to her batshit crazy rants.
May 9, 2014 at 9:07 pm
Narration
Eric, thanks for informing. I don’t know if the glossolalia is something she can grab hold of and control, or not.
I do think there’s very definitely a person in there, as there always is, and I like that person, have talked enough to know many times.
I can appreciate your response to persons who are not understanding, and you have to look out for the chance for the many to feel free to speak. It’s sort of like the rest of life out there.
Here, many people do speak who would not be listened to outside. Some because they rant, or come across as under one influence or another, or who are hyper-rational, which is just the other end of a spectrum.
Nice and a contribution that it can be so, however far actually works. I remember the burning out of a nearby webhost or two, so good on you for recovering from how you were sounding on it a few months ago.
I even forgave you about that lawyerly response concerning the cirrus 😉
Take care
May 9, 2014 at 10:31 pm
suzy blah blah
I received about half a dozen complaints from people telling me offline that they no longer come here
-there’s been no proof shown of any such complaints having been made. Nothing at all, just EK’s word. I call bullshit until I see the evidence. It sounds to suzy like nothing but another flimsy lie from a 2nd rate lawyer trying to protect his client (his ego). Because when it comes to the government and the law,
especially constitutional law along with its tangential pursuits of, with, and including US history, Forest has a grasp on nuanced details embedded within the form of these documents and events that are beyond EK’s comprehension. This from the 1700s right up to the present. There’s something to learn in that direction, but one has to think outside of the box first.
May 9, 2014 at 10:41 pm
Anonymous
These lengthy exchanges over chemtrails illustrates how “changing one’s mind” is a painful process that can expose stubborn, blinding prejudices from individuals compelled to reflexively denigrate uncomfortable possibilities as “wacko”.
This is one reason our nation’s very real and deadly experimentation upon the public has been recurring in our recent past with each occurrence preceded by similar denials and accusations of “crazy wackos” which, logically, should give everyone pause for concern over repetition.
The lessons we learn from history is that the lessons are never learned…
Knowing recent history demands the prudence of deep concerns over the undeniable fact that, for years, scientists have been developing scenarios for chemtrails without any consideration of health impacts expressed during their geo-engineering seminars.
Maybe this time, if we withhold criticism, berate the “wackos”, deny history, and leave the scientists alone….it will all go away?
May 10, 2014 at 7:38 am
Mitch
I’m not sure what Anon10:41 has in mind. Since the Tuskegee experiment has already been mentioned on the thread, perhaps that’s a place for a hyper-rationalist to start.
For the sake of comparing Tuskegee with chemtrails, here are a few questions that a person who doesn’t completely dismiss rationalism might ask:
1. How did this experiment come to start?
2. What was it’s purpose?
3. How many people were involved as experimenters and as subjects?
4. How was the program kept secret?
5. How was it exposed?
6. With what evidence was it exposed?
7. How long after the evidence was presented did the program continue?
8. Who benefited financially, or would have had the program continued?
I’d invite anyone (especially anyone who views Tuskegee as providing supporting evidence for the possibility of chemtrails) to look at Tuskegee through the lens formed of the eight questions above, and decide for themselves how similar or relevant it might be.
I’m surprised at Narration’s comments on the “hyper-rational” but I’ll leave it to him or her to extend them or clarify them, if they are so inclined.
When it comes to determining matters of fact, I don’t see a spectrum from rational to, what?, “emotional?” as being one in which the moderate middle is the best spot.
Emotion is critical to deciding where one might place one’s attention — but once the attention is placed, and the choice is to determine whether a fact is true, I view emotion’s job as done, and would seek to isolate emotion from the fact-finding process.
May 10, 2014 at 9:26 am
Not A Native
Whatever Eric’s weaknesses and failings might be(and I call him out on them), he is guiding this blog in a way that appeals to others. By and large, the topics he chooses are coherent and consistent with his stated charter, local politics and culture. And he presents them in a rational and sometimes even intellectual manner.
Personally, I don’t have time or interest to deal with the administrivia of blog management. Especially one devoted to HumCo centric concerns which I mostly find uninteresting. But, when I feel a desire to know what is occupying some local minds, I refer to this blog for diversion. Seeing long, repetitive and rambling rants whose purpose is haranguing or glorification of the writer harshes my high and lowers my self esteem for associating with individuals who at best need mental treatment and at worst are selfish egotist attention seekers.
May 10, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Joe Blow
After blocking Forest Queen my tolerance for Eric Kirk’s in-your-face hypocrisy and his unAmerican supporters’ hyperbolic justification tanked. Promised myself if ever had anything to say I’d publish on my own blog, but this is unreal. Whatever Eric Kirk thought to do and now justify is really amusing, not to mention so ever satisfying to witness his exposure. You shit in your own bed Kirk and don’t even know it.
Has anyone bothered to take a look the the extent of this blog thread (alone), as of this writing 421 comments, with its extensive, “dominating and diluting” massive blather, “with incoherent nonsense,” and compare it with Eric Kirk’s reasons for banning (censoring Forest Queen)? While at the same time promoting himself as a champion patriot, defending the rights and freedoms consistent with or to a democratic society. You couldn’t ask for a more perfect example of a “dead thread” totally unrelated to the original blog posting. Talk about rank, rotten hypocrisy – the stench permeates my offices so bad I had to turn off the computer.
“What goes around always comes around,” Kirk, and that is the real reason people stopped associating with you. You, actually, did us all a favor, in particular Forest Queen.
May 10, 2014 at 1:38 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually Joe, what I noticed is that when the threads were no longer perpetually dominated by nonsensical posts from you, Forest Queen, and Suzi, participation from everyone else actually picked up.
May 10, 2014 at 2:17 pm
Narration
Hey, Mitch. Seems that jibe hit a wrong target, surely, as I certainly wasn’t thinking of you. Also the dichotomy would not be emotionalist vs. rationalist.
Giving us both a little break from a late-night comment, here’s a thought I had today after skimming rapidly through a large spectrum of web out-take, via a feedly set. The way people talk who talk bearing agendas really stands out.
What came to mind a little later was the idea that this kind of particularly American kind of one-noteness has to do with the symbol-referent problem, or at least its recognition in 20th-century European thought.
How is kind of two-step. The first is how symbols are never clear in their ability to stand in for what they intend to describe. The second is in how the opposing mistake occurs: the endless grinding on about symbolic issues (i.e. gun control, right to grow pot, opposition to any government program that clearly helps people), in the mistaken hope that any of this actually achieves something in a primary and systemic point of pain the speaker feels. Like poor rich me, they want my money; what I really want is the universe to treat me as I dream I was treated as a child; that the ‘moral’ economic arrangement I believed in is now exposed as incorrect and insubstantial to the real challenges following it for a while has wrought
In short, that much about our lives in a complex world has moved on, and that the challenges now are fresh and very real. Symbolic words and so forth offer very little substance for the dealing we have to do with this. Though keeping well in mind their mistake and its tendencies may have a lot to do with keeping us sharp and engaging as we really need to be.
Back to moderate middles – this isn’t anything I conceive or believe in, but maybe thinking so has something to do with responses here.
I do favor senses of balance — but they are in the realm an individual faces among the very real extent of the ‘heavens’ that for example Asian philosophy reckons are with each individual at all times and in every day. Maybe certain Judaic ones as well – Steinbeck made an interesting substitution of one for the other to allow people to think of his point in the novel East of Eden.
To describe this view, the universe even on one planet is immense; all nature and human and further? tendencies and forces constantly in presence and in play. This is a description of a real ecology, isn’t it? And the (aware, educated-presumed in old texts, informed-presumed in today]s) person lives in every moment’s awareness of this whole, the one that constantly shifts and moves, aiding and threatening, intent or benign, where s/he will consider and act with continuity and honor, for humane cause.
I hope that opens better doorways, and then would say what the juxtaposition of ‘hyper-rational’ was about.
You have persons here who speak often in a manner of kindliness, yet with prophet-like issues in mind, and who get banned for speaking (admittedly sometimes) too much, which I hope is the only reason.
What in Thornton Wilder’s Our Town would have been ‘The Crowd’ as I remember then champs in and vociferously agrees that such persons are ‘irrational’, in their ways of putting it, and therefore definitely non grata.
Some of those with judgmental attitudes clearly consider themselves to be very educated, and/or in defense of what the more correct ways of speaking and being heard should be.
Thus you can see why I would be inclined to group them just where they belong when behaving this way, on the same psychological continuum and therefore of the same kind of disruptive taste with the ‘irrationalists’ who they want to despise.
That was all, and we now return you to normal programming on Kunsoo 😉
Cheers, Mitch; always nice to hear from your own careful views.
May 10, 2014 at 4:49 pm
Narration
I went back and read through the Our Town’s script, and found no The Crowd greek chorus as I had remembered it. But I do remember very well the enjoyment, even of some specific individuals, in speaking such a part in our class reading.
Maybe it was not that play, though I think it was. Maybe it was an invention of the very thoughtful teacher we had that year, one of the unusual ones, so that the many could participate, using the speeches of the Stage Manager.
Conventional wisdom, though, was in almost every cowboy epic of the day, and it was in the many, the townspeople, who needed a gunfighter — or an artist or a good teacher — to raise up their sight, and therefore their moral courage.
May 10, 2014 at 5:35 pm
Eric Kirk and His Brownshirts | The Joe Blow Report 2
[…] May 10, 2014 at 1:38 pm […]
May 11, 2014 at 10:18 am
suzy blah blah
glossolalia
May 11, 2014 at 10:39 am
Narration
Well, it’s not always going to be about you, suzy.
But Happy Mother’s Day anyway, I think 😉
And yes, that was my point, that we all participate in the partial looniness that is to be human….
May 11, 2014 at 10:43 am
Narration
And of course, the same day’s wish to Forest, wherever you are, my dear 😉
May 11, 2014 at 11:18 am
suzy blah blah
-what can one say?! suzy had a great night. suzy’s feeling good, suzy’s head is clear, suzy’s soul is renewed. And, suzy, being vibrant and alive on this fine spring morning, a lovely mother’s day, feeling the breeze, smelling the grass, viewing the clear blue sky, posts with a link — connecting the herd to the earth’s message and the fine vibrations of Gaea’s love– all with good intentions and intent awareness of the harmony that surrounds us –for those who have eyes to hear … ❤
But what does suzy get back? It seems that Narrator couldn't wait to be insulting to me again, Oh well suzy's used to hearing bullshit from ignorant fools. It comes with the territory of being a true dissident and revolutionary. We seem to always be censored, banned, insulted, and now suzy's taking guff from a slave and prisoner of his own mind who can't see beyond the box or hear in the right way to be able to understand the fine wisdom that suzy expresses freely. For what is “nectar to the enlightened seems poison to the ignorant”: Rumi
May 11, 2014 at 1:45 pm
Narration
Hey, Sparkle Plenty, you have to understand better when someone’s being gentle with you…
Do look in a quiet moment and realize you gave lip, I think.
Thanks for your description. It really made me think of a nice day in Humboldt. And yes, the freedom and free spirit in the quiet, very much a part of it.
Nice advantages up there, and nice to hear you enjoying them.
May 11, 2014 at 2:44 pm
suzy blah blah
-“gave lip” LOL! Don’t you wish. suzy was merely pimping glossanailia That’s all.
May 11, 2014 at 2:54 pm
Narration
Ok, fair enough, and you’d see I was too 😉
Here’s a tidbit I thought of for you before seeing your reply here, the usual shower thinking-room. I don’t know if I picked the right one, but it had the phrase I remembered. Out of a book off poetry I wrote in one of those lives, living out in the Columbia Gorge, with the winds from east or west,, dry or damp, changing the voices of my instruments in fifteen minutes, and reminding me deeply of special friends.
This one is from the Eastern Oregon side, La Grande. A nice place to go when you can. The Írish face’ was a young woman who rode a 40 square mile cattle ranch, a real cowgirl. It was interesting both the way and the talk with her, full of that quiet.
So quiet now, and the green hills are finally dark
The soft warm winds are beginning
Playing in the violet golden glow of aftersun clouds
Coming to this place
It’s like returning to the home of a past love
Full of auspicious moments of feeling
And knowings beyond words
Even the rodeo’s commotion is hushed, neighbor warm
There’s an Irish face beside me, the taste of honey
Wild roses abound, though aren’t they simple flowers
Delicate with freckles, sunshine glowing cheeks
In the quiet, the wind begins again
May 11, 2014 at 9:04 pm
Anonymous
“For the sake of comparing Tuskegee with chemtrails, here are a few questions that a person who doesn’t completely dismiss rationalism might ask:…” (Mitch)
It’s instructive to point out that few Americans could answer any of your 8 rational questions if applied to the 2008 economic collapse. For those that seek-out information, your 8 questions are still not easy to answer despite the largest looting of public wealth in U.S. history.
In fact, when Brooksly Born, chair of the USCFTC testified to Congress in 1999, that OTC Derivatives needed to be regulated or would implode with devastating consequences…her office was promptly de-funded and she resigned.
Fear, conventionality, cover-ups with endless critics crying “prove it” enabled Tuskegee to continue, paving the way for the plutonium tests on indigent citizens, followed by nuclear test fallout, and countless toxic industrial experiments and accidents enjoying government collusion and cover-up, (among the known incidents of human-experimentation and disregard).
Knowing this history is the prescient point of my comments and my disgust over the numerous and reflexive (outrageous) condemnations of those concerned over chemtrails in this long string. This is especially outrageous when considering that geo-engineers have been developing chemtrail scenarios for years, revealed in their seminars lacking any human-impact content.
Your 8 questions are excellent.
Too bad journalists are not covering these seminars and asking these questions so that concerned Americans could, at least, insist that geo-engineering account for human impacts and the moronic “witch hunters” could give their dismissive, harmful and irrational “Big Foot” and “mind control” comparisons a rest.
May 12, 2014 at 7:28 am
Mitch
endless critics crying “prove it”
That’s not my understanding of what happened at Tuskegee, but I could be missing a lot. My understanding is that someone finally went to the press and the gig was up within six months. If you know otherwise, I’d be interested.
May 12, 2014 at 7:39 am
Mitch
As for the financial collapse, Anon 9:04, here are my answers, and I don’t think they’re hard to find — just hard for many people to hear.
1. How did this experiment come to start?
Clinton and maybe one or two bushes supported deregulation and turned banks loose with other people’s money.
2. What was it’s purpose?
To make bankers happy and get their support or at least prevent their active opposition to any other Clinton programs — they pretty much have a veto. Anyone sentient at the time of Clinton’s election will remember how he was Republicanized by “The Bond Market,” which always controls today’s government because it can lead to economic success and reelection or economic pain and subsequent defeat.
3. How many people were involved as experimenters and as subjects?
Approximately a billion subjects, maybe 10,000 experimenters.
4. How was the program kept secret?
It was not.
5. How was it exposed?
The banks overgambled other people’s money, faced bankruptcy, and instead the government gave away the taxpayer’s money to rescue them and give their leaders bonuses.
6. With what evidence was it exposed?
It was in the open. Completely in the open.
7. How long after the evidence was presented did the program continue?
It continues today.
8. Who benefited financially, or would have had the program continued?
The bankers and those who benefit from the rising income inequality. Basically, the 0.01%.
None of this is secret, though for some reason the idea that it is kept secret feels satisfying to some, because it allows a comforting sense that “if only people knew” they’d do something. People know. People are too busy living their own lives within our system. People enjoy watching TV. People will not take action until they are literally hungry — even then, few will take action. Many will blame the hungry for “sucking up all government money” and this, perhaps, is an opinion that the media actively pushes. But I’m not sure the media is all that necessary in the process — throughout human history, many people prefer blaming those they view as on the bottom over blaming people who appear successful.
On another topic entirely, thanks, Narration, for the reply.
May 12, 2014 at 8:03 am
Mitch
One more thing, which I hope will gladden Eric’s heart by returning momentarily to his actual topic.
To hear one person’s reaction to changing his mind, you could go here:
http://features.slashdot.org/story/14/05/11/2258257/interviews-stewart-brand-answers-your-questions
I’ll cut and paste Stewart Brand’s answer:
Brand: Interesting question— where is the pleasure and where is the pain in taking a public heretical position?
For me the main delight came with rethinking my previous knee-jerk opposition to nuclear.. Once I decided to research the topic on my own, I had the pleasure of finding out that EVERYTHING that most environmentalists and liberals thought about nuclear energy was wrong— radiation risk, finances, waste storage, Chernobyl, etc. I discovered the same thing with GMOs (though as a biologist I had been mildly for them anyway; once I studied the subject I became fiercely for them.)
May 12, 2014 at 10:45 am
suzy blah blah
-ew, Narrator, i s’pose you have the right to think about suzy when you shower but, please, keep it to yourself dude. You are disgusting!
May 12, 2014 at 11:43 am
Narration
suzy, it was the phrase ‘in the quiet, the wind begins again’ that I thought of.
In the shower.
For far off, peaceful places, like the one you described and reminded me of, on Sunday.
May 12, 2014 at 12:06 pm
Narration
Hey, Mitch, you’re welcome, and it was fun writing it.
I’ve been interested on your own ‘other topic’ and what you find to say on it. I recently ran across a quite unusual book, which I like for its recognizing of what drove whole cultures into provoking the current mess, and for outlining real future paths we could take.
The eyes Alpert sees with notice what I saw and wanted to do something about — and then got stranded by the tidal wave while preparing. In the end, I guess such stories lead to interesting things in a personal world, and then you will see differently about how an individual might possibly contribute. Anyway, I do and did 😉
I don’t of course instantly agree with all Alpert says, but it is very interesting reading, I think, and I like the flavor of his approach, then get to think of what it may mean for a future of us, all also individuals.
Cheers, Mitch
May 12, 2014 at 12:07 pm
Narration
Yikes. I should know better than to use Amazon’s links raw…
May 12, 2014 at 12:38 pm
Mitch
Narration,
One of the book’s reviewers at Amazon suggested starting with this earlier paper — http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/NAF–The_Way_Forward–Alpert_Hockett_Roubini.pdf
So I’m looking that over; as far as I can tell, it completely ignores the sustainability issues that shadow any increased consumerism. Maybe it will turn up in a few pages. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, and don’t worry, I don’t feel coerced by seeing a buy button.
May 12, 2014 at 1:13 pm
Narration
Thanks, I’ll read that. And I suspect you might be right, at least on the surface, that Alpert hasn’t gone much into any of the area about sustainability, if I seem to remember he did green a little.
His proposals really are on the macro level, if I like the framing because he delves into what I think of as the really ecological nature of economics itself. He also understands what it is to deal with people at an agreements level across cultures. and what might be needed to successfully do that now.
My first take would be that as we invent the more workable sustainability ideas, those ought to fit right in – especially since many of them are going to be creating jobs, if were smart about it.
Hmm. Considering that last phrase… ;;) You’ll understand. But if the plumbing is there so the narrow-heads see how money would work, concepts might work, mightn’t they…
May 12, 2014 at 3:20 pm
Narration
Mitch, I was leafing through Alpert’s book over lunch on my way to the library new books section to return it.
In the chapter ‘Rebuild and Reform’ there’s as much sustainability as I think you could ask for, if delivered in a carefully balanced framing that those who have undue influence could listen to. He clearly is, as he said at the chapter’s beginning, a pragmatist.
Thus he has green jobs as the fastest growing area (they like growth); he allows them their current shale fracking natural gas treat, but reminds how this is a very short- lived ‘solution’, and how they need get going now if not before on true sustainability.
Here he brings out Germany, who I was going to mention to you, who is building absolutely at a gangbusters rate on this, as they don’t prefer nukes, while do prefer to be free of the Middle East and Putin’s machinations.
Sweden too, who one might suspect to be one of the logical suspects. Little hints that there’s no reason we want to be left behind on this.
Alpert brings the paper you handed to me into this, while the chapter moves on from it, pretty clearly another footstep on a trail. Jobs and an open, rather American idea on the value, ‘even’ to business if they had their heads on straight, of everyone having enough to spend are front and center, so that he’s a sort of Teddy Roosevelt progressive in flavour. He wants to see a lot of public works to reignite this, and that fits very well into a green agenda if you want it to,
And, he talks very alertly and sensibly about what Europeans and Asians, notably but not only Chinese and Japanese and Indians, want, need, and might agree to if we want to to recognize other people for who they are, individually and in societies, in a future. There, he really caught my ear, and I’ll want to think through further the ways he proposes.
May 12, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Mitch
Narration,
I found the paper disappointing. Yes to infrastructure development, yes to a real safety net in developing countries. But I think the authors fail to recognize the extent to which everything has already been so corrupted by income inequality that you can’t just get the players to shift investments.
China seems to be on the right track, and it has been increasing its formerly microscopic consumption economy.
America needs some way to invest in infrastructure that won’t simply reward the existing players. I think Occupy, for all its failure, was more on the mark towards that than these guys. There are a lot of people that need to be thrown in jail, or at least out of power. Only then can we seriously hope for America to begin investing in appropriate infrastructure.
Honestly, things like “speeding goods to market” doesn’t seem to me to make much difference. America needs to increase the efficiency of its use of energy and needs to recognize the value of real education (which it now considers dangerous).
The most critical thing of all is probably something these folks consider unrealistic — recognizing that once you’ve got extreme income inequality, money is not going to flow where it’s needed in a capitalist economy — it’s going to flow to money instead of people. Lots of money for yachts, not much for subways. And it’s going to be that way regardless of who’s in charge, until the people with the money are scared they’ll lose it all, perhaps along with their lives. That’s where we are stuck today.
May 12, 2014 at 6:31 pm
Narration
Well, I think income equality is exactly what he’s on in the book. Maybe it seems too abstract to talk about international affairs, commodity corporrations, etc. in regard of this, but it’s too evident that the problem starts there.
There are what, 6 billion people in the ‘economically developing’ segment of the world, 1 billion maybe in the one we think of as ours? We’ve already got 1 billion of the 6 working in some regards of our own economies. Without getting/letting them to improve, and especially to operate within their own circles, rather than treating us as the big buyer club, I don’t think you can do anything about income inequality pressures here ‘at home’.
I don’t think youi’re going to find the relevant information in the paper, Mitch, judging from what you’ve said. I’ll read it, but am working right now.
May 12, 2014 at 11:14 pm
Anonymous
“As for the financial collapse, Anon 9:04, here are my answers, and I don’t think they’re hard to find — just hard for many people to hear.” (Mitch).
It is astonishing how you condemn “people” for “inaction” because you claim they are amply informed, and yet, you join the “ridicule party” in this string by condemning those that are concerned (for years) that geo-engineers have been, in fact, developing chemtrail scenarios without human impact considerations! Actual tests may, or may not be happening, but it’s hardly a far-fetched possibility.
For someone claiming easy access to information how can you know so little about the effects of the most powerful propaganda machine this world has ever known? This is a nation starved for relevant news! There are dozens of books on the shelves documenting the truth about American media and the self-censorship epidemic.
For example, who are you or I to say how local citizens might react about the continuing 2008 collapse if our local media had a weekly report, since 2008, of the record number of foreclosures and bankruptcies taking place in our own neighborhoods??
We don’t know because it has never once been reported, and yet, you condemn “people” for their disinterest and inaction? That hardly seems rational.
I challenge you to test your own theory by asking anyone you happen to run into who Brooksly Born is, or what the USCFTC or OTC’s are. If they missed the 3AM airing of the PBS Frontline episode “The Warning”, or if they actually subscribe to the NY Times and WSJ, but missed the single article on Born, it is unlikely they’d read about her anywhere else.
in 1999, Born was widely condemned, ridiculed and effectively eliminated for threatening regulatory action of financial instruments that were the center of the worldwide 2008 economic collapse.
The Born story is critical to understanding exactly how powerful information and journalism are to civilization. In their absence, we have fear, conventionality and self-censorship keeping people from taking risks to right a wrong, even for the “doctors” that observe the torture of innocents, or the “scientists” behind the wholesale spraying of neighborhoods with DDT, subjecting indigent Americans to untreated syphilis, plutonium or nuclear fallout, extraordinary prison sentences and solitary confinement, and on and on…
My point, again, and again, is that it is irrational and harmful to ridicule those that are rightfully concerned over any group of “scientists”, including the geo-engineers, that remain oblivious to the human impacts of their executable scenarios.
This string exemplifies how you, and so many others, simply took enjoyment from the repeated act of ridiculing others, the antithesis of inspiration that could “change minds”.
May 13, 2014 at 6:24 am
Mitch
Anonymous 11:14,
I suppose we are excellent examples of the difficulties involved in changing one’s mind. I don’t believe I ridicule those who are concerned that the government might be researching techniques to counter climate change. I’m one of them. I ridicule — out of, I believe, an otherwise unbearable sadness — those who are incapable of weighing evidence in a way I believe is basic to common sense.
The chemtrails folks think the proof of a major government operation is in front of our eyes, daily. You are their precise opposite — you condemn me for thinking the reality of government economic operations is in front of our eyes daily, when you are convinced it must be hidden, or people would be doing what they obviously are not.
We have different worldviews, and I can see I will never, ever be able to convince you. You presumably already know that about me.
May 13, 2014 at 6:28 am
Mitch
Narration,
Yes, he views income inequality as something which is problematic. What mystifies me is his apparent expectation that those who think they are the beneficiaries are going to allow it to change. The change might come from the 0.01% if they suddenly doubled their average intelligence. Otherwise, it’s going to come from the 99.99%, will probably be extremely violent, and will mostly involve the deaths of people who have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual problem (“illegal” immigrants, Jews, “Asians”, “liberals”, etc…).
May 13, 2014 at 12:04 pm
Eric Kirk
I will say that as I was driving up the 101 safety corridor this morning I saw above the Arcata hills 4 contrails. It’s obviously a major flight path (or major “geoengineering” site), because most mornings I see at least one or two trails in the same area. This is the first time I’ve seen four.
May 13, 2014 at 12:36 pm
Anonymous
It’s a major flight path, as I provided ample evidence for upthread. If you had been by a computer and saw a contrail in the process of being created, chances are you could identify the specific plane using this website:
http://www.flightradar24.com/41.32,-121.81/7
Flights seen heading in a NNW or SSE direction, flying over (roughly) the Fickle Hill area are mainly flights to and from the airport in McKinleyville, headed to or from the Bay Area or Sacramento.
Flights seen heading in a NNW or SSE direction, flying over (roughly) the Northern Mendo / SoHum / King Range / Mattole Valley area and the Ferndale / Eel River Delta area are generally flights to and from LA, going to and from Asia, and in some cases Anchorage, Alaska. All of this has been discussed in more detail above.
May 13, 2014 at 2:41 pm
Narration
Hi Mitch – well, see again what I think is the amplification of the book over the paper, several years later.
For my view, he is very straightforwardly explaining to the 0.01% (that many?) (and as well as anyone else who’d like to know) why they actually do want to get involved, and how it can be done in the languages and strata and futures they think they understand.
Hence my interest, and especially as I quite agree about the situations of persons likely to occur in the alternatives, as history would tell.
I don’t know, I could be wrong in my take, but again I’ve sort of been around the processes by which new is created, and where such people take a view, and so far I feel there’s something in his approach that really appeals to a long-constructed common sense about what works in such things.
We’ll have to see, if he gets any traction, not that many of the favored few would admit to it am sure.
May 13, 2014 at 4:34 pm
Anonymous
Eric, the consistency of that flight path, over the arcata hills, is the same I refer to as over the fieldbrook/bluelake area, though probably closer to titlow hill and east, as those planes are high in the sky. I watched two planes flying north to south this morning after twho had already dropped trails. No planes for the past several days, now today @ very high temps, lots of them. If you’re in arcata or mckinleyville and have a 360 degree view of the sky, every “cloud” you see was manufactured by airplane contrails. Most of the polanes flew over between 7am and 9:30am (9:38 was the last morning plane) and a few mid afternoon. I can’t see what I’m typing, by the way…anyway, this is after several days of zero planes flying overhead.
Comprehend that: every cloud in the sky is the direct result of airplane emissions. Again. And it will happen again and again this year, probably this month. Who’s in a position to watch it happen? Everybody I work with watches and comprehends this. We all have lives to live. Just sharing the info, for you to dismiss as tinfoil etc. Realize, perhaps, that the time for “geoengineering experimentation” has passed, and the time for action is now, and that action is being taken now…and nobody’s telling you about it.
May 13, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Eric Kirk
Comprehend that: every cloud in the sky is the direct result of airplane emissions.
All right, I’m trying not to be sarcastic, but that’s a huge jump of logic and patently silly. Every cloud in the sky is NOT the direct result of airplane omissions. It’s not even physically possible. The cirrus clouds behind the contrails were very apparently much higher than those trails, which were low enough such that I suspect they were headed to the McKinleyville airport as the other anonymous suggests. There is no rule of physics which would allow these trails to ascend and expand in every direction – even if they can defy gravity, the wind can only be blowing one way.
May 13, 2014 at 4:49 pm
Mitch
Meanwhile, http://mentalfloss.com/article/49786/how-much-does-cloud-weigh
May 13, 2014 at 4:58 pm
Eric Kirk
Cirrus clouds, however, are made primarily of ice slivers, as are contrails.
May 13, 2014 at 5:10 pm
Narration
well, the wind does blow differently in different layers as you go up, Eric. I remember friends taking movies of it when personal videocams were new.
That’s a good article on clouds, Mitch, brought up my spirits nicely.
May 13, 2014 at 5:14 pm
Anonymous
“All right, I’m trying not to be sarcastic, but that’s a huge jump of logic and patently silly. Every cloud in the sky is NOT the direct result of airplane omissions. It’s not even physically possible. The cirrus clouds behind the contrails were very apparently much higher than those trails, which were low enough such that I suspect they were headed to the McKinleyville airport as the other anonymous suggests.”
Those clouds look low, but they’re high. North to south flight path. Yes, we watch the planes fly overhead leaving contrails and those clouds became every bit of “cloud” you see right now if you’r in arcata or mckinleyville. This is where you start to draw blanks, you’re just not comprehending this fact. YUnderstandable, you didn’t see it happen, you’re not watching it happen.
May 13, 2014 at 7:18 pm
Eric Kirk
The clouds were lower than the cirrus clouds because the trail obscured the cirrus clouds, not vice versa. They were lower than the clouds. And since the planes which left them were landing in McKinleyville,, I suspect they were considerably lower.
As for “all the clouds” being created by contrails, it’s a physical impossibility unless those planes are carrying the weight indicated through Mitch’s link. Do you know how much a cloud weighs? Did you hit his link?
Lastly, when I was in the seventh grade, my science teacher taught us that in the coastal climate – the Half Moon Bay area of California – there were fewer than 20 days out of the year where clouds took up less than ten percent of the sky. So, if “all the clouds” were created by contrails, then what happened to the natural clouds? Did the synthetic clouds chase them away?
May 13, 2014 at 7:48 pm
Anonymous
“No planes for the past several days, now today @ very high temps, lots of them…this is after several days of zero planes flying overhead..”
There are planes fly both the major flight paths over Humboldt every single day. Just because you don’t see contrails doesn’t mean there were no planes flying. Again, atmospheric conditions have to be within the right parameters at the altitude the planes are flying at for contrails to form.
Today (as most weekdays) there were 6 flights from Arcata/Eureka to San Francisco, and 2 flights from Arcata/Eureka to Sacramento. Not surprisingly, there was an equal amount of air traffic back in the other direction: 6 flights from San Francisco to Arcata/Eureka and 2 flights from Sacramento to Arcata/Eureka.
So, not even counting all the flights passing over us on the way to Alaska and/or Asia, that’s 16 flights per day in and out of our humble little airport in McKinleyville. But again, there’s no need to take my word for it, you can go to United.com and check out their timetable for Arcata/Eureka. You can identify them in real time when you see them overhead by using the flightradar24.com website. Or you can just go to the airport and listen to the announcements of arrivals and departures and talk to the people getting on and off the planes, and watch the planes take off and land “with your own two eyes.”
So again, 16 flights a day and that’s only counting the ones to and from our airport, and when conditions are right for contrails to form, they would be visible from pretty much anywhere in the Humboldt Bay area, and even well beyond — and would certainly be quite visible from Blue Lake, as these flights often pass more or less right over Blue Lake, and always within contrail-sighting range from Blue Lake.
So, having been given this information — and been given several different ways of confirming the veracity of this information on your own — I will ask again: What is it that you are seeing that you believe cannot be explained by the simple, easy to confirm realities of commercial air traffic over Humboldt, combined with the well-established science on the formation and behavior of contrails?
May 14, 2014 at 12:02 am
Anonymous
“I ridicule — out of, I believe, an otherwise unbearable sadness — those who are incapable of weighing (chemtrail) evidence in a way I believe is basic to common sense.” (Mitch).
First, you condemn “people” for being uninformed in a society of unparalleled propaganda and misinformation, and them you condemn “people” for (right or wrong) suspecting chemtrail testing.
It is these comments of yours that are “unbearably” sad, and irrational.
Ridicule is certainly no model of common sense, it is a form of pointless hostility, a primitive, instinctual desire to relieve the pain one feels by inflicting it on others, a well-researched behavior and common dysfunction of self-injuring alcoholics. (And an especially curious indulgence by someone that has made numerous posts on chemtrails, yet, laments the “public distraction” caused by chemtrails!).
COMMON SENSE requires consideration of a recent history brimming with examples of human experimentation, amid official denials and the ridicule of skeptics as “absurd” or “wackos”, and the fact that science in the U.S. remains unencumbered by consideration of human impacts.
Thus, rationality requires pause. Ridicule is vile and intolerable, even in children.
“Man is most vile when he tries to justify his vileness” (H.L. Mencken).
May 14, 2014 at 12:08 am
Anonymous
Give it a rest, George.
May 14, 2014 at 12:20 am
Eric Kirk
HL Mencken would have had a field day with chemtrail conspiracy theorists!
May 14, 2014 at 6:41 am
Anonymous
Eric, you’re either just stringing me along or not even trying to comprehend what I’ve written. Looking outside right now, I’m watching trail #3 form to the east, slightly different elevations or distances, hard to guage from here, the first two already starting to appear like your precious circus flatulous clouds. Yesterday, the ONLY clouds in the entire 360 degrees of visible sky minus a few degrees off sea level were formed in the wake of contrails. That’s become frighteningly common, and has NEVER been any type of normal around here until the last few years. It’s already happened a few times this month. Are they commercial planes? I dunno! But that doesn’t change the facts of the matter. Are they spraying nanoscopic radioactive particles to cause chain reactions of precipitation? I dunno! But that doesn’t change the facts of the matter. It’s not normal, it’s never been like that until now. Please, re-read the last few posts I’ve made and apply the “critical thinking” tag to your rusty gearbox.
May 14, 2014 at 6:59 am
Mitch
HL Mencken on newspapers: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1914/03/newspaper-morals/306219/?single_page=true
May 14, 2014 at 7:42 am
Eric Kirk
Anonymous, I just came to my Arcata office from Samoa and saw three contrails, one of them in progress. Above them I saw three varieties of cirrus clouds, and now from my office window I’m looking south at two levels of cirrus clouds over Eureka, or what appears from my office to be over Eureka, one formation fibratous (higher altitude) and one cumulous (lower) – and no clouds with even a remote possibility of generating rain.
There is nothing in the sky now that I haven’t seen all my life. I took great interest in science as a kid, and did a great deal of sky watching both during the day and at night. I don’t remember all the names of the types of clouds from my seventh grade lessons, but everything in the sky right now looks relatively normal.
There is a very definite flight path which seems to move north or northwest with the trails east of the Arcata hills – they appear to be over Bayside, but distances can be really deceiving. They could be much farther away.
May 14, 2014 at 7:45 am
Eric Kirk
And here’s my old post on Mencken.
May 14, 2014 at 8:14 am
Mitch
Wow, Eric. There were active trolls amongst your readership even in 2006!
The cynicism of the Mencken essay I linked to is breathtaking — I am bewildered by his ability to do a 180 by the end, and declare newspapers useful after all. It’s also breathtaking to hear him lament that 6,000 words is all the peasants can handle — today it would be between 250 and 500.
I’m going to pull a 250 word excerpt for those who won’t do the extra click; I’m not sure if he’s talking about Ford, Carter, or Obama:
May 14, 2014 at 8:17 am
Mitch
Hey, Eric, you even had trolls in 2006!
The Mencken essay I linked to is breathtakingly cynical, and I don’t know how he manages to end it on an approving note. Maybe the most astonishing show of how things have changed is where he complains that the largest essay the people will read is 6,000 words — today he’d have to say 250-500. So here’s a quote from the link that’s about 250 words.
May 14, 2014 at 8:47 am
Eric Kirk
I had trolls by my third posting Mitch. Almost makes be believe in original sin.
May 14, 2014 at 10:15 am
Unk John
“I ridicule — out of, I believe, an otherwise unbearable sadness — those who are incapable of weighing (chemtrail) evidence in a way I believe is basic to common sense.” (Mitch).
First, you condemn “people” for being uninformed in a society of unparalleled propaganda and misinformation, and them you condemn “people” for (right or wrong) suspecting chemtrail testing.
Okay, Anonymous @ 12:02, I am not here to defend Mitch, as he needs no help from me, and I am not here to ridicule you or anyone else who suspects the government of spraying us all with chemtrails. I would simply like to point out that, in my view, Mitch’s statement was far more gentle than you evidently perceived.
It doesn’t seem to me that in that statement he is ridiculing anyone for suspecting government nastiness. He has a problem with what they use as “evidence” to prove it. There is a big difference there. I think that most, if not all, people on this blog or any other blog believe that the government is never to be trusted. That is not unusual, and your statement about COMMON SENSE is one that is probably accepted by most everyone here. The only problem is that it is quite broad and offers no reason to suspect chemtrails in particular.
If you are the same Anonymous as Anonymous @ 6:41am, you appear concerned about things you see in the sky that are vastly different from what you recall are normal conditions. I don’t know that what you say is normal in the sky is, in fact, normal in the sky. I don’t even know if what you say you saw is really what you saw. Furthermore, you mentioned to Eric something about his “precious circus flatulous clouds” (sic). If you are the same as Anonymous 12:02, then I suggest you reread the second to last line in your post. This can only lead to more of the same.
Anonymous 6:41 also asked Eric to read some of his/her previous posts. I don’t know for sure about Eric, but as for me I might do that. However, there are a lot of posts attributed to Anonymous. I can speculate as to which ones are yours, but I can’t be sure. I would need some verification.
May 14, 2014 at 7:23 pm
Anonymous
“There is nothing in the sky now that I haven’t seen all my life.”
You’re (only recently and only briefly and only occasionally) looking at a completely new phenomenon and behavior in the sky above your head and it resembles your relatively vague memories. You simply haven’t been paying attention. You haven’t witnessed the transformation. You literally don’t know what you’re talking about. Not that anybody would expect you or anybody else to have been paying attention, and it’s very obvious that very few have genuinely been paying attention. And even fewer go out of their way to say anything about it. Only the word of the institutions to which you’ve come to subscribe your beliefs will change your mind at this point. I encourage you to keep your eyes to the skies and really pay attention.
May 14, 2014 at 7:29 pm
Anonymous
“If you are the same Anonymous as Anonymous @ 6:41am, you appear concerned about things you see in the sky that are vastly different from what you recall are normal conditions. I don’t know that what you say is normal in the sky is, in fact, normal in the sky. I don’t even know if what you say you saw is really what you saw.”
Well if you’d have been paying attention to the sky above the eureka/arcata/mckinleyville area for the past 15 years you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. I’m just some guy as are you to me, telling it like it is. Take it or leave it, I’m not concerned about you or eric either way. It’s all very Orwellian. How’s the weather?
May 14, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Eric Kirk
We really need a new renaissance of science in this country. The educational system has really failed us. Or maybe it’s the anti-intellectualism of the culture in this country. Either way, it’s really depressing.
May 14, 2014 at 10:21 pm
Eric Kirk
May 14, 2014 at 10:53 pm
Anonymous
Yes, Unk John, you are combining the comments of 2 diff. Anons.
I am the Anon that is perplexed by local, known individuals like Mitch and Eric, among many others here, struggling to sound intelligent while simultaneously joining in mob-mentality by ridiculing and mocking concern over chemtrails, comparing them to “crazies” (Mitch), “mind-control” (Mitch) and “conspiracy theorists” (Mitch).
Obviously, intelligent people that believe as Mitch and Eric purport to, would never respond at all to such “craziness”, let alone, week after week happily dismissing, exaggerating, mocking, and ridiculing others. For those that are clearly concerned by chemtrails, I would ask that you reevaluate your assertion that Mitch, or Eric’s comments are “more gentile than you perceive”.
Early in this string someone posted videos of geo-engineer seminars reflecting years of actual chemtrail research devoid of human-impact considerations. This should have eliminated any illusions of “conspiracies”. No one disputed this fact, however, instead of outrage over the proposed continuation of scientific models unchanged in U.S. history, (human experimentation on native people with untreated small pox, and uranium poisoning, exposing indigent Americans to untreated syphilis, plutonium, DDT, nuclear fallout, etc), they chose, instead, to engage in endless ridicule.
This is not the choice intelligent people would make.
Actual tests of existing chemtrail research is hardly in the same league as “crazies, mind-control, Big Foot, Ancient Aliens, crop circles, space elevators, etc”.
Again, ridicule is vile. It is a form of aggressive hostility. Attempts to conceal vileness behind a pathetic excuse of being “sad” is beyond belief.
It is conceivable that, by the 500th comment, the neurosis on tour here can be extinguished by asking how we allowed very mean, small minded people to indulge their psychosis and distract us from “changing our minds” about chemtrails as a frightening continuation of “science” fully prepared to being the next unaccountable mass-experiment.
May 15, 2014 at 6:20 am
Mitch
Space elevators are being investigated by reasonable people.
I’m guessing our local chem-trails are due to a combination of preppers who moved to Humboldt and children who’ve been home-schooled by people with no critical thinking skills.
I still remember a seemingly normal prepper explaining how the clock rollover in 2000 would disable our society completely. It was a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. They knew about clocks in embedded systems, but didn’t realize what they were for, and so didn’t realize most such systems didn’t track a date.
May 15, 2014 at 8:37 am
laughing or crying, I haven't decided
I am hostile to paranoid conspiracy nut jobs.
But educate us chem trail people, what are they spraying on us and why?
May 15, 2014 at 8:47 am
Not A Native
Eric,I’m probably the only commenter here who earned a degree in a STEM field so my question to you is are your children likely to do that? If anti intellectualism troubles you, I’m puzzled because you knowingly chose to be in a locality whose ethos is well known for that and takes great pride in that reputation. Or is it that it wasn’t a voluntary choice?
Unk John, if you closely examine the gravatar of the posts, you can differentiate the identities of anonymous posters. In this instance the 12:02 and 6:41 posters aren’t the same. Yep, it would be easier if everyone used a pseudonym or login, but Eric has decided(probably to encourage more posts) not to require it….
As to the content of 12:02, I agree with many of the points made. In particular the underlying hostile and coercive intent behind ridicule. I also do it on occasion but only to demean those who I feel have displayed a mean spirit or insincerity. I think Mitch uses ridicule reflexively, as a way to dismiss those whose arguments he is ‘sure’ are incorrect but can’t cite facts in a rebuttal. That circumstance should cause Mitch to question his certainty but instead evokes aggression. And did you notice that one tiny reference in passing, to Mencken resulted in Eric and Mitch ‘tripping’ on that while studiously ignoring the main point of 12:02, addressed only by you?
My one disagreement with 12:02 is it calls for serious consideration of all novel claims because novel claims have been validated in the past. At a local talk a while back in defense of atheism, Victor Stenger presented the principle “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. I think that’s more appropriate than 12:02 position because the status quo has a degree of inherent legitimacy by the simple truth of our being here and alive to debate it. Our existence shouldn’t be taken lightly or for granted.
May 15, 2014 at 8:48 am
Eric Kirk
Anonymous 10:53 – If you’re that sensitive to ridicule over a particular issue, it suggests a bit of insecurity around your position, which is actually to your credit. Otherwise, the ridicule would be of minimal concern to you. If you’re truly in the right, it shouldn’t matter what the rest of us think or say about it. That you take it so personally suggests that maybe you recognize how silly the position appears to most people.
The problem here is that you’re going to see what you want to see based on your ideology of grand government conspiracies. Your view of the sky fits your view of everything else, but you have enough common sense to understand how it looks. So you get angry when it’s pointed out.
I’m ridiculed for all sorts of my positions from people who disagree with me, as you will find in abundance if you read many of the threads here. I don’t see their ridicule as “vile.” I see it as part of the discussion.
And I’m sorry, but when someone claims he’s seen something in the sky that is abnormal, and is presented with overwhelming evidence that it’s really nothing special, and that what he sees is easily explainable with a little bit of scientific knowledge, and he stubbornly refuses to even address the actual science, he opens himself up to ridicule. You can go to dozens of sources which with photographs of the cloud types complete with explanations found in textbooks dating back decades or even hundreds of years. But that’s no fun. It’s much more fun and satisfying to believe that your in some elite clique of people who “know” what’s really happening because nobody else notices what’s going on in the sky above him. It helps him to feel smug and superior, and more importantly special. He will see what he wants to see, because the pieces all fit together for him, and everything he sees will only reinforce that picture he desperately wants to maintain. He will believe that all of the clouds in the sky are man made, even if it contradicts not just basic rules of physics and chemistry, but common sense – a cloud cannot move against the wind, and the wind only blows in one direction at any given location. He will cite no peer-reviewed studies that these materials can even possibly create clouds, but that’s of no matter to him, because these scientists with their journals are all part of a cabal which seeks to control the truth. He doesn’t need actual empirical evidence. He just knows, because he “sees.”
That self-deception is at the core of risks of every pursuit of truth and that grand theories require grand evidence just doesn’t occur to him.
That’s extremely frustrated to those of us to do make some effort to recognize our ignorance, and when we make a simple request for such a thing of photographic evidence of an occurrence which supposedly takes place twice a month and the request is rejected as game playing, well, it fits into a pattern of the pseudo-scientist who doesn’t realize that you need an incredible amount of work to arrive at even the smallest of a truth. You need to eliminate all variables, or as many as possible. You need to look to the most simple of explanations before running wild with the most exotic.
The pursuit of understanding is not an easy path. i understand that. But if you’re going to persist in lazy approach and be righteous about it – I’m probably going to ridicule you, especially if I see enough people jumping on a bandwagon so that it’s an actual problem – a detriment to any real hope for positive solutions to real problems. And if you can’t handle the rough and tumble of lively discussion, then this is probably not the forum for you.
May 15, 2014 at 8:56 am
Eric Kirk
Eric,I’m probably the only commenter here who earned a degree in a STEM field so my question to you is are your children likely to do that? If anti intellectualism troubles you, I’m puzzled because you knowingly chose to be in a locality whose ethos is well known for that and takes great pride in that reputation. Or is it that it wasn’t a voluntary choice?
NAN – My kids are very interested in science, and they may very well pursue such a career. As for anti-intellectualism, it’s everywhere. It may even be a product of human nature, we are after all really just a large pack of smart monkeys. If even a few moments of our existence can transcend the natural tendency for easy and emotionally rewarding answers, then we can call that “enlightenment.” And the community actually does have a large number of very smart people, who think critically. I’ll have two of them on the radio tonight
I’m in Eureka now, and the culture in Eureka has its own trappings. Sohum is really no different from anywhere else, no better no worse. It just has its own unique packaging.
May 15, 2014 at 9:22 am
Mitch
Obviously, intelligent people that believe as Mitch and Eric purport to, would never respond at all to such “craziness”,
Add the words “most non-masochistic” and we’ve got agreement.
May 15, 2014 at 9:36 am
Anonymous
NAN said: “In particular the underlying hostile and coercive intent behind ridicule. I also do it on occasion but only to demean those who I feel have displayed a mean spirit or insincerity.”
For several years it seemed like 9 out of 10 comments from NAN were little more than vitriolic attacks on other commenters, but every so often there was a real gem, hinting at a potential that was unfortunately not often realized at that time. Then NAN seemed to be taking a break from commenting for quite a while, and since his or her return NAN’s commentary has become MUCH more civil and constructive, especially in the past few months. I now look forward to reading what he or she has to say, and when I do read them, I find a lot of insightful observations and careful analysis. I don’t always agree, but I really appreciate what I’m reading,
Nice to see a commenter make such a dramatic change in a positive direction.
May 15, 2014 at 9:49 am
suzy blah blah
-Anonymous, you never sent us any photos of the evidence you say you have. That’s the main reason your claims have dissipated. As for the mocking that you now make your main point, it’s of suzy’s opinion that people like you yourself, or lack of self, are the root cause of the neurosis you say you are observing here. And i’d further add that i believe that’s the cause, in part, of Eric’s depression, which you are now reaping the effects of the affects of via his, and brown-noser Mitch’s, snarky replys … see how that works?
Until you do something about the chemtrails you believe in you’re just blowing air and making flatuous sounds.
May 15, 2014 at 10:13 am
Mitch
Eric,
I just adore your website.
sbb,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Horowitz
May 15, 2014 at 11:09 am
Not A Native
Eric, you have your reasons to be so baldly disingenuous in your writing. However, though not recently, you used to often wax rhapsodic about San Francisco(and been accused of surreptitiously recreating aspects of it here) as an aspirational model.
But now, its all what it is. Your middle age epiphany is that SoHum and Eureka, while uniquely ‘packaged’ are otherwise no different from NYC, Cambridge, Chicago, LA, London, and Modesto? I don’t think so…….
May 15, 2014 at 11:42 am
Ask Suzy
-ding! right on cue, Mitch’s perversion, the talent for observing and breathing in flatulence before it dissipates, now in the advanced stages of hyper-rational obsessive/compulsionism, manifests it’s sad ugly nose once again. Sniff sniff sniff.
To mitigate the masochism, suzy recommends the patient drink more fluoridated water and make sure he’s getting the proper amount of gluten..
May 15, 2014 at 11:43 am
Anonymous
“Your view of the sky fits your view of everything else, but you have enough common sense to understand how it looks.”
Here, yet again, you draw a blank. Conspiracy? Obviously of some sort. I’m simply stating the physical fact of the matter: a lot more planes, a lot more chemtrails over a very short period of time. Days at a time when there would otherwise be no cloudcover over the city were it not for those immediately formed int he wake of contrails. Dig? You’re really speaking for yourself with that comment, as you haven’t seen the change in air traffic behavior, and only think you believe it’s normal. T. Th Googling your reality,at this point, and being that you’ve only just started (maybe) paying attention, it’s a little late to know the real before and after. Keep watching…tell us what you see over the next ten years, Mr. Knowitall.
May 15, 2014 at 12:32 pm
Just Watchin
I think someone just got called a fart smeller !
May 15, 2014 at 1:02 pm
Unk John
@ Green anonymous at 12:02 and 10:53.
I didn’t say that his commentS were gentle (Actually, I wish I had written “gentile”, as you did). I was speaking to that specific statement you quoted.
You see, I would like to see us all take a more civil tone with each other. Mitch, with whom I agree, can at times be a bit aggressive, but I can understand it. On this thread, in the 11th post from a somewhat light blueish gravatared anonymous contained some name calling. After that, all hell broke loose.
Of course, I understand that this is a spill-over from other threads and I am not of a mind to try to find out who started it. I don’t give a rip.
This thread started out with a wonderful thought and was an excellent topic. What makes people change their minds? It evolved.
It seems to me that light-blue anonymous is passionate about what he/she sees in the sky, but the response to every question as to what, specifically, is new, is usually to look at the sky and all will be revealed. Mitch and others have pointed out some reasons for what is seen that are science based and the response goes off into how they somehow are government loving fools.
It takes its toll. People get unnerved. If Mr./Ms. light-blue gravatar is really concerned and would like to get everyone to understand why he/she believes we are all at risk, then it doesn’t make any sense to treat them like idiots.
NAN, thanks for reminding me about the gravatars. I forgot about that.
May 15, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Ask Suzy
“If a fart is let in the forest does it make a sound?”
-maybe not. But the worst smelling are the silent ones. .
May 15, 2014 at 2:57 pm
Eric Kirk
NAN – I love SF. I love what it was 30 years ago more, but even what it is can be pretty cool. I wouldn’t want to live there at this point. Too many people in one place. Yes, it has a lot more culture and science to offer, but we’re down there all the time. We’re in a university town locally, which offers much to differentiate it from, say, Redding or Crescent City. I also want the kids to have access to the open spaces, and more of a sense of long term community than the larger city offers. And the cities have their own versions of provincialism. They might be dressed in more intellectual garb, but they can be just as skewed towards the limitations of their adherents life experiences.
I think Humboldt County offers a nice balance actually. If we could get decent dim sum here, I’d be happy as a clam.
But you’re right – chemtrail believers are probably one part in a thousand there rather than one part in a hundred.
May 15, 2014 at 3:22 pm
Ask Suzy
I’m simply stating the physical fact of the matter: a lot more planes, a lot more chemtrails over a very short period of time
-you are confused if you think that your seeing something makes it a “physical fact” to the rest of us. That doesn’t cut it here. No matter how many times you state it. If you want to have a valid discussion on this forum i suggest you show us some real photo evidence instead of continually repeating non-provable claims, half-lies and innuendos.
May 15, 2014 at 7:25 pm
Anonymous
Eric, this was posted above concerning my correspondence…
” but the response to every question as to what, specifically, is new, is usually to look at the sky and all will be revealed.”
Have you been comprehending what I’ve been communicating well enough to answer what, specifically, is new? I’m not trying to woo anybody into submission…it seems more like tinfoilers like eric and mitch keep bleating “concede”. WTF, I’m just telling you what’s actually going on. Do you know why I wasn’t posting any of this in 2010? Because there weren’t chemtrails over eureka/arcata/mckinleyville like there are now. And five years before that, there were practically none.
“If Mr./Ms. light-blue gravatar is really concerned and would like to get everyone to understand why he/she believes we are all at risk, then it doesn’t make any sense to treat them like idiots.”
But they’re idiots.
May 15, 2014 at 7:34 pm
Anonymous
“But you’re right – chemtrail believers are probably one part in a thousand there rather than one part in a hundred.”
Believers? Witnesses. You’re just now looking, and what you’re just now seeing isn’t what was there even five years ago. Yeah, it looks like something you might have seen once in awhile ten or more years ago, but it’s suddenly become a regular thing. A big change has occurred and you haven’t noticed it. Yet?
May 15, 2014 at 8:12 pm
Anonymous
In response to Eric 8:48 and others, thank you for the amusement, for example, seeing me as a believer in current chemtrail tests when I am not, and have stated so repeatedly. (I guess we all see what we want…whether it’s up in the sky or right in front of your face).
Instead, the point I have made over an over again is conveniently ignored for the sad convenience of defending gratuitous and continuing ridicule of those that are concerned that chemtrails are actually being tested.
Instead of incessant ridicule that appears to serve a personal need in defiance of sanity, an intelligent observer would share alarm that geo-engineer “scientists” have already prepared the groundwork for America’s next human experimentation atrocity. (Space elevators and Big Foot pose no such broad threat).
I understand that being honest here will further dismantle the legitimacy of the immense energy wasted on endless, pointless and harmful ridicule, however, be honest, will any of you be surprised if there has been some chemtrail research tests?
May 16, 2014 at 1:43 am
Unk John
Light-blue anonymous: Yes, I comprehend what you are saying in your posts. My problem is that I disagree with your interpretation of what we all see in the sky. I hope you don’t think less of me for that.
I am in no position to disagree with the idea that our government would consider such actions if there were big benefits and they figure a high probability of getting away with it. There could be other factors, but these would be high on the list.
May 16, 2014 at 6:26 am
Mitch
Anonymous 8:12,
If by “chemtrail research test” you mean government weather modification efforts, here is your proof that states and counties are already conducting such tests — http://www.weathermodification.com .
If by “chemtrail research test” you mean government spraying of mind control chemicals, here is a program I was warned about by one of my professors in the late 1970s — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra .
If by “chemtrail research test” you mean planes leaving white trails from their wings, I don’t view that as a chemtrail research test.
Space elevators are only awaiting an order of magnitude improvement in materials science, which may well take place during my lifetime. If you google “space elevator competition” the first result will be a $900,000 award given out by NASA in 2009 to a team participating in their Space Elevator Games. The impact of such a technology would be huge.
I’m a fan of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, which both spend most of their efforts on ridiculing the ridiculous. I’m not comparing my own efforts with their brilliant comedy, but if you feel like the butt of ridicule, it’s because you are ridiculous.
May 16, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Not A Native
Eric, I decided to let your 2:57 comment be the last word because you made a small concession. But I thought you glibly vastly understated the relative prevalence of anti intellectualism in HumCo.
Well coincidentally Ryan Burns at LoCo has posted facts that support my opinion. Any anti vaxers in the audience? Eric, care to revise your HumCo vs. SF statistic?
http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2014/may/16/vaccine-paranoia-rise-humboldt/
May 16, 2014 at 4:03 pm
Ask Suzy
-i am beginning to believe there will be an insider that will crack the Chemtrail case wide open soon. I talked to someone while i was getting an icecream at the drivethrough today who is planning to do that very thing. He told me he was saving up to go to go to flight school and get a job as a pilot to investigate things. From the inside! He said all his heroes were whistleblowers. I didn’t get a chance to hear any more about his plan to disclose the chemtrail conspiracy however because the car behind me was rudely beeping its horn. This is part of the problem with this culture today, everybody’s in too much of a hurry for suzy. I gave the impatient creep the finger but i don’t why i bothered. The message won’t sink in to that thick skull anyway. Then when i got my change suzy gave the server a big smile and i handed him a big tip to put in his pilot’s education fund. That’s what gets things done and that’s what i support –action.
Yet talk is all we have for now and until that day of revelation comes suzy will continue to offer advice to people on how to think about the issue. And also on how to feel about it, no matter what you think. That’s the important thing –switching one’s focus from the brain to the new paradigm.
May 16, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Eric Kirk
NAN – a radio show on vaccinations is in the works, particularly as the anti-vax hysteria is now becoming a health policy problem, and diseases like polio are making a comeback. The last time polio made a comeback in this country was when Reagan cut back on funding for inner city vaccinations – with Dr. Helen Cauldicott screaming about it. Seemed like an easier fight in those days.
May 16, 2014 at 4:59 pm
Anonymous
POP QUIZ! Eric! Mitch! Tell us this week’s airplane/contrail behavior over the eurcatamac area! Or are you talking out your asses again?
May 16, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Eric Kirk
I saw some contrails. There are airplanes in the sky. Saw them last week too. And the week before that.
May 16, 2014 at 5:49 pm
Anonymous
Eric didn’t pay attention! Once again he’ll point to the internet to describe what he didn’t see. Mitch?
May 16, 2014 at 5:56 pm
Anonymous
“they figure a high probability of getting away with it.”
They ARE getting away with it, in broad daylight! Eric’s looking right at it and thinks it’s kinda like what he might have seen once in awhile way back when. It’s weird that nobody was pointing out day’s on end of sustaining contrails that formed the only cloudcover over the city prior to this decade, eh? Seems really weird to me, considering it’s suddenly happening often enough that it IS “normal”.
May 16, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Anonymous
“I hope you don’t think less of me for that.”
Are you emotionally invested in the internet?
May 16, 2014 at 6:50 pm
Mitch
I didn’t look up this past week, so I don’t have a clue what chemtrails were being laid down. Remind me, is the sky mostly yellow?
May 16, 2014 at 8:33 pm
suzy blah blah
-green anonymous, instead of wasting your breath whining on about being ridiculed, if you’re interested in immunity from perceived threats, try looking into the effects of sound on the human brain. My advice to you is to try listening to the birds. Catch a single bird’s song when it starts, if you can, then listen til it stops. Then notice the other birds. Notice the timing as well as the sound. If you are able to concentrate you can learn something about natural rhythm and penetration from them that is very profound. Their timing has led me on a path of incredible discovery and the frequencies have affected my pineal gland in amazing ways. Of course i know that people like Mitch and Eric won’t believe that til physics, being the imperfect field that it is, learns more and is able to explain to them in very precise terms the phenomena which is taking
place in suzy’s brain. A phenomena which is not understood by science today but i believe will be uncovered before the end of my lifetime.
But, on a lighter note, i have to admit, i’ve never heard of “space elevators”. Must be cuz i was home-schooled. I suppose i should try to find out what they are and everything but i’m not gonna google it. I’d rather wait for Flatmo to do a mural to explain it to me. He’s the main source for my knowledge of Bigfoot you know.
,
May 16, 2014 at 9:24 pm
Mitch
The 31 Hz of sea lion mating calls has a terrific cleansing effect on my left kidney. Also, the 60 Hz of power lines doubles sperm production in my right testicle. Modern science can explain neither of these effects, but I feel them with complete certainty. Sadly, Western medicine’s instruments are blind to both effects.
Space elevators are explained in Jack and the Beanstalk.
May 16, 2014 at 9:50 pm
suzy blah blah
-sigh, if only it were your right nut, also, hey … work on it Mitch. But did you know that suzy’s heard that the whale’s tonal vocabulary has at times been found to describe what could only be seen and understood by the best minds as a ridiculing structural format/motif. Of course i know as far as circumstantial evidence goes the whales don’t have a leg to stand on, neither do the minds. But it’s been said that the mocking sounds travel for thousands of miles through the water.
As for trading a cow for an magic elevator, well that’s the story of science and technology, isn’t it?. Luckily suzy stole the hen from the giant and chopped down the cell phone tower just in time 😉
May 16, 2014 at 11:24 pm
Anonymous
“I am in no position to disagree with the idea that our government would consider such actions…” (Unk John).
It appears that we are not in good company here.
Thank you for being the only one to respond honestly, made easier by having the intelligence to refrain from digging a hole of ridicule too deep to see outside of. (In for a penny…in for a pound).
Civilization has long-sought to “change people’s minds” by holding them publicly accountable for the injurious ways people think and act.
I must thank Eric for providing that opportunity.
In this case, holding individuals to account for their 500+ posts of frequently immature, self indulgent, childish mockery, insult, and scorn, offering equally puerile excuses to justify their petulance, for example, out of a “sadness for people’s lack of common sense” and now, out of the “comedic value”, (NOTE: chemtrails are not a popular comedy subject beyond the “comedians” here, nor do actual “wackos” merit this much attention day after day).
“Sadness” and “comedy” are desperate excuses, offered only after being called-out on a peculiar pleasure derived from gluttonous ridicule that not only injures those that feel concerned, but is a harmful distraction from the public reality of actual scientific models and seminars.
The geo-engineer seminars documented early in this post, and also on Tom Sebourn’s blog, remove chemtrails from the realm of “conspiracy nuts” and into the undisputed reality and continuing legacy of U.S. “science” devoid of human impact considerations.
So far, this is all I have learned to trust on this subject and it merits legitimate, healthy and vociferous suspicion, it does not merit the derisive, satirical buffoonery that appears here and that seems to fill a very dark hole in a few individual’s psyche.
It appears that only Unk John and I would not be surprised if this “science” were actually being field-tested.
May 17, 2014 at 6:57 am
Mitch
Thank goodness for Tom Sebourn’s blog.
May 17, 2014 at 7:02 am
Mitch
I’m fairly confident that whalesong consists largely of the mournful repetition of “how, oh Lord, could you have given *them* opposable thumbs, and not us?”
But it’s enough for my personal peace of mind to know that islands within the sacred oceans of my body are responsive to the harmonies of sea lions and PG&E.
Uh-oh… I feel accountability coming on.
May 17, 2014 at 7:17 am
Not A Native
Well, Eric, my point was to show that for one issue at least, HumCo anti-intellectualism is much greater than one in a hundred. The data show seventeen in a hundred. That has social implications and also political ones. The effect of that many is more than enough to determine any county wide election.
As for a radio show on the issue(or any anti intellectual opinion), you should be very careful. If your intent will be to sway minds, ‘pounding the facts’ as a lawyer in court would, is not effective.
From the LoCo post:
“What’s most infuriating to medical professionals is that providing vaccine opponents with scientific data can actually be counterproductive. According to a recent study, if parents who have mixed or negative opinions about vaccines are presented with information debunking the autism myth, they become less likely — not more — to get their kids vaccinated.
“Surprising as this may seem,” one of the study’s authors recently wrote in the New York Times, “our finding is consistent with a great deal of research on how people react to their beliefs being challenged. People frequently resist information that contradicts their views, such as corrective information — for example, by bringing to mind reasons to maintain their belief — and in some cases actually end up believing it more strongly as a result.” “
May 17, 2014 at 7:19 am
Not A Native
Oops, its not seventeen in a hundred. Its twenty seven in a hundred.
May 17, 2014 at 11:03 am
suzy blah blah
-Mitch, you know that i’ve offered many findings here on subParlance that i’ve
discovered through the chemical research tests i’ve conducted over the years.
Like the time i got trapped in an elevator for an hour while coming on to LSD. Or the time i dropped a little bag of green chemicals on the sidewalk to see if the handsome dude walking behind me would pick it up and return it. Or the time i stitched together the fractured sole of Sasquatch’s stolen mock-a-sin with toad stool venom. But we have yet to see any photo evidence of your alleged “thumb”. Or why you have to be so opposable.
May 17, 2014 at 11:13 am
Mitch
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0QVKGOaC8fr-cia-1GCIRqN4I7ytsayEDGE5EwmhyeTeodQlFPsg0a4lU
May 17, 2014 at 1:09 pm
suzy blah blah
-one of the major leaps in human’s evolution is due to switching from the finger to the thumb.
May 17, 2014 at 1:53 pm
Eric Kirk
NAN, if you’re right then we’re talking about 4000 people in the county who believe that the government is spraying chemicals into the air in front of everybody, but nobody is noticing because meteorologists are either complicit in the conspiracy, or they just never really learned what the sky is supposed to look like.
I note that I was at Fortuna Union High School for a track meet this morning, and looked to the east to see three north-south contrails above the hills on the horizon. Silly, me, but they looked like they indicated the same flight path of the trails I’ve seen towards the east of Arcata. And I saw almost directly above me a contrail in process of creation. By late morning there were no contrails, and few clouds. There was fog to the west, which generated a bit of a wind down at our level. Anyway, I saw the contrails at about 9:30 a.m. No contrails and few clouds by noon as my son was running the 200 meter (he took 4th against some pretty long legs, but really proud is his dad watching him throw the shot put – last week he threw it 18 feet 8 inches in his first competitive attempt ever. Today he threw 22 feet, four inches, and placed fifth in the seventh grade division (the winner, a monster as tall as I, threw it over 26 feet). Poinct being, I wasn’t watching the sky the entire time, beut I did get a few glances in. No contrails by early afternoon.
May 17, 2014 at 8:09 pm
Not A Native
Not that I care but here’s a NOVA website about global dimming that has a great image of ‘chemtrail’ like clouds. The interactive sequence has a lot of info. BTW, global dimming is attributed to human caused release of sufate aerosols, largely from burning coal. Speculate onward…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/understanding-global-dimming.html
May 18, 2014 at 12:01 am
Anonymous
”NAN, if you’re right then we’re talking about 4000 people in the county who believe that the government is spraying chemicals into the air in front of everybody, but nobody is noticing because meteorologists are either complicit in the conspiracy, or they just never really learned what the sky is supposed to look like.” (Eric Kirk)
If chemtrails were being field-tested meteorologists would not necessarily know about it.
I was traveling on a plane to Japan and was sitting among members of California atmospheric scientists headed to Mongolia. Because of climate change, megatons of wind-swept Mongolian dust travels across China, collecting the worst pollutants from coal exhaust that descends on Japan and is occasionally viewed off the California coast as a massive and toxic yellow haze. They said that their research is well-known within their field; it has been happening for years, it can be seen by the naked eye, but is rarely reported by media.
It’s fascinating how you and others feel tormented by “anti-intellectuals”, formerly referred to here as “crazies” and “wackos”. Is this a softening of the ridicule, or more personal pleasure in finding another way to persist in demeaning people you judge stupid?
Either way, it distracts from the more important context of chemtrails as part of geo-engineering research that omits human-impact considerations, a horrifying continuation of our U.S. “science” legacy of unaccountable experimentation.
No doubt you would be surprised to see an “ancient alien”, or a “big foot”, however, would you be as surprised if you learned that chemtrail field-tests were taking place?
Can you be honest?
May 18, 2014 at 8:05 am
Anonymous
” but nobody is noticing because meteorologists are either complicit in the conspiracy, or they just never really learned what the sky is supposed to look like. ”
Nobody’s noticing, Eric? People all over the world are noticing because they know what the sky has looked like for their entire lives prior. You offer no explanation as to the newness of this phenomenon, but to say that I’m either a liar or crazy. You’re among the people glancing at the sky now and then saying “yeah, looks kinda normal, I think, let me check the internet for an explanation of why it’s day three that airplanes have been spraying contrails that spread out across the whole sky after a couple hours. Yep, says right here: normal!”.
May 18, 2014 at 8:37 am
Anonymous
“Poinct being, I wasn’t watching the sky the entire time, beut I did get a few glances in. No contrails by early afternoon.”
Face it, you’re never really watching the sky and you’ve never really paid any genuine attention. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You have no frame of reference yet you’ve convinced yourself that what youi’re seeing now is what you’ve been seeing your entire life. It’s not, dude. You’re wrong, and that’s that.
May 18, 2014 at 8:43 am
Anonymous
“meteorologists are either complicit in the conspiracy, or they just never really learned what the sky is supposed to look like.”
Read the World Meteorologist Organization’s statement on climate change, 2007. Do you think that’s fake? Your entire approach is not only unscientific, it’s based on strong bias. You are so wrong it’s pathetic, and are the type who will increasingly refuse to open up to that fact because you’d have to admit so to a group you blanket ridicule.
May 18, 2014 at 12:15 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually, I don’t really care either way. If the government is experimenting with sulfur dioxide in the stratosphere, I actually have no problem with that – volcanoes spew it up all the time. But they wouldn’t conduct that over Blue Lake by generating a grid of long plumes of it, and it wouldn’t generate white fluffy clouds.
Here’s some actually science on the subject if you’re interested.
The WMO has made many statements about warming, and I don’t contest what they have to say.
There’s a reason you open yourself up to ridicule, and the zealousness of your commentary – the absolute black and white conclusions you draw with very little information save your own interpretation of your own perceptions of the sky – that’s what opens you up to ridicule. You have yet to link to one peer-reviewed study or analysis which even supports the basic premise of your theory, which isn’t even coherent – you’re all over the place looking at the sky and all over the Internet for confirmation, because one day about 15 years ago you looked up at the sky for the first time in your life for more than a few seconds, and armed with something you read on the Internet you cooked up a whole narrative which has been slow-cooking ever since.
For the past month now I’ve paid really close attention to the sky on the chance that there might be something to what you’ve said. When I reported seeing 4 contrails at once, you seized on that as conclusive evidence of something – I’m not quite sure what, and actually got angry at me because I didn’t draw the same conclusions. You came up with a theory that is physically impossible, namely that the contrails can generate the cirrus clouds which cover the sky several hours later, in all directions from the contrails – requiting that the statospheric and upper tropsosheric winds carry the material or effect in all different directions. Not physically possible.
I asked you for photographs of what you’re talking about, and your response was to tell me to photograph what doesn’t exist, namely a twice a month “grid” and after a month I have yet to see more than two contrails even intersect.
My suggestion to you, which I doubt you will positively respond to, is to read the science. Not pseudo-science from an internet site with an agenda, but atmospheric science. Learn what the various clouds are – what causes them, how they evolve in a given day. Learn about the different conditions which generate clouds, and shape them. There are all sorts of mysterious looking formations that make people wonder when they see them for the first time. In the old days, they were seen as signs and visions in the absence of scientific explanations. We have some information and knowledge now. You should make use of them.
I’ve said the same thing about the truthers. They should learn something about engineering, and read the actual engineering association reports on the event – and there’s a whole slew of them rarely mentioned by the truther crowd except to cherry-pick for data useful for their narratives, or to slam because an authors second cousin twice removed once worked for a company employed by the ex-boyfriend of someone who has a clerk job at the Pentagon. Read the peer-reviewed science on water fluoridation, vaccinations, and yes, gmo’s, before you watch the youtube documentaries. You can always reject the science, but learn it first.
Again, is there some experimentation somewhere as to testing reactions and reflective capabilities of sulfates in the upper atmosphere, or more effective means of cloud seeding, or something of that order? Perhaps, I don’t know. But before I believe they’re doing it over Blue Lake, and before I become concerned about it such that I can be outraged or demand from the government more information, I want more information than the word of an anonymous blogger that he has been looking at the sky for 15 years and sees “huge changes” he can’t really describe, and gets testy when asked for specific details because after all, “you all can see it for yourself.” Well, if it was that obvious, why did they choose the air over Blue Lake to conduct it? Seems like given the vast open spaces over water and land, they could experiment without discovery.
And why isn’t the media on it? Even the alternative media? Democracy Now? Why nobody whose job it is to look at the sky and document even minor changes in patterns? Surely some grad student somewhere has published a reviewed thesis about it and reported on it from a pure science perspective.
I’m looking at the sky now. Fluffy rain clouds and blue. No contrails above. Can’t make out any cirrus clouds above,. Doesn’t mean they aren’t there, I just can’t see them at the moment.
May 18, 2014 at 2:56 pm
Anonymous
” You came up with a theory that is physically impossible, namely that the contrails can generate the cirrus clouds which cover the sky several hours later, ”
There was a day, it’s recorded here somewhere in this post, during which if you, a human being of sound mind and vision, witnessed a three hundred and sixty degree vision around you sans a few degrees of the horizon, the sky carried nothing but clouds formed in the wake of airplane contrails…that’s what I’m saying. And I’m saying those events have been increasing in frequency during my twelve years of paying attention to the term “chemtrail’. It used to be “the chemtrail conspiracy” to me as well, but the number of chemtrails around here has increased very noticeably over the last few years. It’s that simple. You haven’t noticed because you haven’t been paying attention, and that’s okay. Nobody’s mad at you, dumbass.
May 18, 2014 at 6:53 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
I remember seeing those white lines spewing out of jets in the sky since I was a child. Forty years or more I have noticed these jets spewing over San Diego. May be due to the close proximity to Mira Mesa (Miramar Air Force Base) & The Naval Base at Coronado and Point Loma area.
May 18, 2014 at 8:43 pm
Anonymous
Eric:
There is to merit or purpose in ridiculing others, and the next time I see you in town I will tell you in person that I find your display here grotesque, and certainly anti-intellectual. Same for Mitch.
Chemtrails is in a different league from “crazies”, “wackos”, “big foot” and “ancient aliens” because:
A) Years of geo-engineer models remove it from the realm of fantasy.
B) There is already a legacy of unaccountable experimentation in the U.S. making it no surprise that testing might occur without notification or reporting.
Focusing your attention on people that think they are frequently seeing chemtrails in order to mock and ridicule them not only detracts from the larger uncomfortable reality of a nation that continues to allow science to ignore human impacts, it illustrates the point of this post and a cause of inflexibility of human thought.
May 18, 2014 at 11:24 pm
Eric Kirk
I think some bigfoot enthusiasts would feel the same way about your categorization. There are many more reportings of Bigfoot, all across the country, than chemtrails, and they’ve been going on for many more decades – some reportings as far south as Florida. Not so much in Nevada though.
http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/2013/07/is-there-a-correlation-between-missing-persons-and-bigfoot-2454812.html
May 19, 2014 at 12:31 am
suzy blah blah
-sigh, for those who have eyes to see, the merit of ridicule is in it’s satirical value. It is a form of expression often used in criticism. And the criticism’s purpose is corrective. But if the satire is not recognized, then its “grotesque anti-intellectualism” goes unappreciated. Then it’s attempt at levity becomes perceived as a personal attack. Boom! And then one gets the pleasure of being approached in town and getting a good finger wagging. And suzy predicts that in Eric’s case the fingerwagger wags a finger at the sky too.
some reportings as far south as Florida
-evidence of global cooling.
May 19, 2014 at 12:38 am
suzy blah blah
@ Oh No! Its Mr. Bill –
May 19, 2014 at 10:39 pm
Narration
Completely enjoyed that video; no need to suggest whys 😉
May 19, 2014 at 10:45 pm
Anonymous
“I think some bigfoot enthusiasts would feel the same way about your categorization.”
You’ve been intensely mocking such things for a week, so your satire is quite dull.
Revealing your obsession for ridiculing others as a form of self-amusement has earned a defense from your nemesis “Blah Blah” and probably some pity, as I am beginning to feel for you.
Between you and Mitch, I’ve seen nothing like this on local blogs by individuals that might consider themselves “educated” or “intellectuals”.
If you believe that geo-engineers and their models for dispersing megatons of aluminum and barium particles are staged seminars…just say so.
The inability to divert you from your narrow focus speaks volumes of the inflexibility and irrationality of average human minds and the point of this post.
May 20, 2014 at 6:36 am
Mitch
Anonymous 10:45,
I consider myself well-and-fully criticized.
If you wanted to be taken seriously, here’s a pathway: state a specific concern and one or more pieces of evidence on which you rely for that concern. Then, people will be able to either agree with you or disagree with you or ignore you. I tried to get you to do that a while back — didn’t work.
But, so far at least, I continue to feel that ridicule is the most appropriate response, next to none. (There have been plenty of non-responses from me.)
May 20, 2014 at 8:29 am
suzy blah blah
22 feet, four inches
-well put.
May 20, 2014 at 10:16 pm
Anonymous
This is the best post I’ve read thus far on So Hum, an excellent premise, a definitive demonstration of an answer, and probably the most visited post on this blog.
The obsession you share with others engaged in self-gratifying mockery and ridicule have blinded some to assume that I must be “one of them” (a believer) despite my own protestations!
I’ve merely repeated a point that none of So Hum’s resident adjudicators of “sanity” have contested. (Assuming that anything truly “crazy” merits such lengthy ridicule day after day).
Blinding obsession has proven an effective resistance to changing one’s mind, in this case, the flexibility to simply concede that, in fact, there are lettered geo-engineers that have spent years developing models of dispensing megatons of aluminum and barium particles to deflect the sun’s rays without considering impacts on water, soil and dependent life…a U.S. legacy and context to chemtrails that deserves public outrage.
You were the only one to directly respond to my point, thus: “Thank goodness for Tom Sebourn’s blog”. Is Sebourn “crazy” too…by association?
If you can show me that documented geo-engineer seminars are staged events and that these “scientists” do not actually exist and their research fabricated I will show you how an actual flexible mind works.
Meanwhile, do you honestly believe that the possibility of chemtrail field-tests share equal possibilities with “mind-control”, “Big-Foot” and “space aliens”?
An HSU professor recently quipped, “when I hear something that sounds ridiculous and harmful to the environment, economy or society I want to see proof that it isn’t already happening”.
Based upon the sole observation and evidence provided in this string, I suspect that you and Eric are capable of digging this hole much deeper, I look forward to So Hum’s future posts on Big Foot.
Sincere Thanks.
May 20, 2014 at 10:34 pm
A
Have their been seminars on geoengineering? Yes.
Is there any evidence that the contrails we see in the sky are connected with geoengineering in any way and/or that they are really “chemtrails” containing anything other than normal engine exhaust and mostly water vapor? No.
Next?
May 21, 2014 at 7:07 am
Mitch
What A said.
May 21, 2014 at 10:02 am
Eric Kirk
An HSU professor recently quipped, “when I hear something that sounds ridiculous and harmful to the environment, economy or society I want to see proof that it isn’t already happening”
Therein lies the problem. The statement is completely contrary to the scientific method.
May 21, 2014 at 10:45 am
Anonymous
I heard the government has been breeding and brainwashing genetically modified canine alien sleeper agents at Area 51, and implanting remotely-controlled explosive devices in them and selling them though pet stores in order to build a nationwide network of exploding alien dogs that can be mobilized in the event of an invasion, terrorist attack or insurrection.
Since this sounds ridiculous and harmful, I want to see proof that it isn’t already happening.
Signed,
Perfesser Poopypants.
May 21, 2014 at 11:38 am
A
I love how the aggressively ignorant light blue anon “chemtrail” true believer thinks he can tell that there wouldn’t have been any clouds on a particular day if not for the contrails that he saw that day.
Of course the basic fact of contrail formation is that they persist (and given the right wind conditions, spread) when the relative humidity at that altitude is approaching the saturation point. So, not surprisingly, this is often when atmospheric conditions are in the process of changing to those that enable cloud formation.
But the aggressively ignorant light blue anon just assumes that it was the contrails that somehow created all of the cloudcover on their own, as opposed to the changing atmospheric conditions that enabled formation of both the persisting/spreading contrails and the rest of the cloudcover.
May 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm
Eric Kirk
I’m still waiting for an explanation as to how the perpetual stratosheric winds can push the contrail effects in all directions. The winds are pretty consistent – I think easterly in the summer and westward in the winter, but I could have those reversed. And they’re heavy winds, sometimes as high as 150 miles per hour. So I’m amazed that the contrails in the eastern portion of the sky can overcome those winds to spread their effects over Arcata and Eureka, generating “every single cloud” (quoting a poster here) in the sky. I was hoping someone could explain the physics to me, but I guess it’s too complicated for my mind to grasp.
May 21, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Anonymous
Breaking News: Chemtrail spewing geoengineer caught in the act!
May 21, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Anonymous
More Breaking News:
Dateline: Blue Lake, California, May 21st, 2014
“Massive formations” of contrails forming a “huge grid” — finally the smoking gun photographic evidence we’ve all been waiting for!
May 21, 2014 at 8:34 pm
suzy blah blah
-Anonymous, without higher investigative channeling suzy can’t say who wins this extended debate. We’ll just have to wait until more evidence comes around. But while we’re waiting, consider the prospect that you may be looking too far for the price of your glasses.
May 21, 2014 at 8:35 pm
suzy blah blah
May 21, 2014 at 10:24 pm
Anonymous
“Therein lies the problem. The (professor’s) statement is completely contrary to the scientific method.” (Eric: May 21, 2014 at 10:02 am)
No, therein lies your problem, you have no sense of humor, despite endless displays of self-indulgent mockery! The professor was being sarcastic…it was intended to be tragically funny considering a U.S. legacy of unaccountable experimentation on U.S. citizens.
“Have there been seminars on geoengineering, (producing models of dispersing megatons of aluminum and barium particles without consideration of human impacts)? Yes.” (A :May 20, 2014 at 10:34 pm)
aka chemtrails
Remarkably, after many days and hundreds of comments only two have illustrated a capacity to momentarily diverge from ridicule to show a modicum of mental flexibility.
Bravo. two out of 6 ain’t bad.
Now, let’s take the next step together.
Yes, there will be painful feelings of guilt and remorse not unlike any other withdrawal, in this case, from the addictive tunnel-vision of ridiculing others that you believe are afflicted with the tunnel-vision of seeing chemtrails everywhere.
Considering that there is actual “science” and executable models behind chemtrails, and considering this nation’s history of unaccountable “scientific” experimentation, how surprised would you be if there were actual trials taking place with this “science” utilizing the geo-engineer’s models?
Honestly?
May 22, 2014 at 7:54 am
Mitch
Secret trials spraying chemicals over Humboldt? I’d be extremely surprised, shocked, and alarmed. I’d expect the EPA and California environmental departments would be as well, along with various people at the weather service and HSU, and people trying to grow oysters in the bay, and so on…
Do you have any evidence this is happening, or was that just a hypothetical question? Would you list one piece of evidence, if you have it? That way, we could check for ourselves and come to a decision about how trustworthy the single piece of evidence might be. Then, we could listen to any additional pieces of evidence. But it would be easiest to start with just one piece of evidence, so would you please choose the best you have?
May 22, 2014 at 7:59 am
Mitch
Oh, and most disturbed of all would probably be the Humboldt Made people, who want the area to have a reputation for happy cows and organic pot.
May 22, 2014 at 11:09 am
Eric Kirk
Well, apparently they’re only doing it over Blue Lake.
May 22, 2014 at 1:03 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
If this is not proof enough our government is lying to us I dont know what is. This is the son of JFK born July 10th 1963 in Santa Rosa, CA
May 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Here is a photo of his mother one mistress of JFK
May 22, 2014 at 4:46 pm
Anonymous
Eric, where are you getting the chemtrails over bluelake bit? I’ve said they could be much further, probably titlow hill or beyond, and that it’s hard to guage because of altitude, etc.
Also, Eric, can you tell us the major changes in aviation/chemtrail behavior that have occurred the past couple of weeks? Any clue whatsoever? Do you continue to pay zero attention to the sky while telling everybody what’s happeining int eh sky?
May 22, 2014 at 5:13 pm
Anonymous
“But it would be easiest to start with just one piece of evidence, so would you please choose the best you have?”
How about we go one better and talk about the actual events taking place right over our heads. There is no “theory” involved, however neither you nor eric make yourselves privy to the best “evidence” there could possibly be. Have you been paying attention the last couple of weeks? What big change have you noticed vs. the occasional spray days? Both you and eric blow tinfoil whistles at the very notion, but are totally talking out your asses, faces stuck to some computer screen.
May 22, 2014 at 11:11 pm
suzy blah blah
Humboldt Made people, who want the area to have a reputation for happy cows and organic pot
-now is the time that we the people can manifest a healthy future together. It’s just a matter of convincing the spray planes to use only organic aluminum.
Happy-trails everyone!
May 22, 2014 at 11:57 pm
Anonymous
“Secret trials spraying chemicals over Humboldt? I’d be extremely surprised…”
This is a great first step Mitch, only 11 more to go!
Next, let’s replace “Humboldt” with Anywhere USA, and let’s not confuse “shocked” by mixing it up with “surprised” that happens all the time.
For example, try using “shocked” in the following sentence repeated to yourself 3 times: “I would be shocked to see an actual ‘Big Foot’, ‘ancient alien’ or ‘mass mind control experiment’, however, no one has been typing chemtrails in quotes here because it is an existing Geo-engineering model that may, or may not have been tested somewhere”.
You see Mitch; there is a huge difference between “The X-Files” and chemtrails whether or not you chose to honestly concede it.
Are you ready to take another stab at honesty?
While I am unconvinced of chemtrail tests, history demands prudence before assuming that government funded Geo-engineers have, somehow, learned to “never again” design or test their research without human impact considerations, as they have already been doing for years with “cloud seeding” and now with the design of sun-refraction technology, (chemtrails), that, in fact, merits your outrage.
I feel we have made good progress Mitch and we should proceed from a mutual place of agreement with your point:
“Wacko conspiracy manipulations can divert attention from real issues.”
The same can be said for the week-long addictive, self-indulgent ridicule and mockery being illustrated here that diverts attention and energy from the public reality behind actual chemtrail models. This distraction can only contribute to the difficulty in “changing one’s mind” about the continuation of a horrific legacy of U.S. “science” devoid of consideration for human impacts.
It is perplexing how “intelligent” and “educated” individuals can become enthralled day after day, by demeaning others to a point that a larger, more important context is completely overwhelmed.
In Step Two we will further explore how outrage can be more appropriately and effectively redirected to addressing the continuing horrific legacy and excesses of U.S. “science”.
We’ll begin by identifying the things you cannot change…like other’s personal beliefs that annoy you and that you probably cannot change.
May 23, 2014 at 12:42 am
Anonymous
So in other words no, you don’t have even one piece of evidence to point to that it’s actually happening. Okey-dokey then.
May 23, 2014 at 5:53 am
Mitch
Asked for one shred of evidence, got a lecture. See the problem?
May 23, 2014 at 6:32 am
Mitch
After re-reading Anonymous, I found myself wondering how I’d come out with the odd phrase he quotes from me — “wacko conspiracy manipulations.” I used my browser’s search but can’t find any such phrase used by me or anyone.
Now, yes, I did point out above that, in my more paranoid moments, I wondered whether the more wacko of the conspiracy theorists were paid by the government to divert attention from serious problems. And blah,ever helpful, did point out that I probably meant the capitalists, a point I happily concede.
But usually, the quote marks are used to surround quotations, and I know I appreciate that courtesy.
May 23, 2014 at 8:13 am
Eric Kirk
How about we go one better and talk about the actual events taking place right over our heads. There is no “theory” involved, however neither you nor eric make yourselves privy to the best “evidence” there could possibly be. Have you been paying attention the last couple of weeks? What big change have you noticed vs. the occasional spray days? Both you and eric blow tinfoil whistles at the very notion, but are totally talking out your asses, faces stuck to some computer screen.
Check the sky every day now. Still nothing unusual.
May 23, 2014 at 9:33 am
Mitch
What big change have you noticed vs. the occasional spray days?
I believe you, Anonymous. I believe you watch the sky and see patterns. But when you or another Anonymous were asked to offer photos, the Anonymous replied that they didn’t want to, and that taking photographs was not their job, or words to that effect.
So, by all means, I have faith in your sincerity. I just sincerely think you’re wrong. Now both of those things are just fine.
But if you wanted to convince other people, which I would think would be why people bother to insist about chemtrails on Eric’s blog, you’d need to come up with a piece of evidence that other people could examine. Then other people could change their minds, or choose instead to refute your evidence.
For example, you could do what someone suggested upthread and take contrail samples. Or you could present a series of photographs that would enable someone to examine the patterns you see — someone did that at one of the debunking sites and others had differing explanations for the patterns that the poster asserted were due to a grid of chemical spraying.
So, we’ll just go on as we have. I’ll be alternating between ridicule and requests for evidence; some others will be offering alternative explanations; the one nutcase Anonymous will continue writing his essays complaining that no one acknowledges that the US government COULD be flying invisible inflatable pigs, instead choosing to request evidence of the pigs (which are, after all, INVISIBLE, you idiots!), and other Anonymi will continue explaining to us that the chemtrails ought to be obvious because they expand to cover the entire sky.
It’s all interesting, if a bit redundant, and the joy of blogs is that nobody needs to participate once they decide it’s not worth their time.
May 23, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Anonymous
“Check the sky every day now. Still nothing unusual.”
Right! Suddenly no planes at all (FAA suddenly changed all those flight paths! From over ten planes in a single morning to zero!), and the few that are visible do not form clouds in their wake (back to the old fuel?!). Did you notice today, three planes between 1 and 2:30, forming three large clouds? They’re a complete haze at this moment, 5:47pm. Looks totally “natural”. There are occasions when a battery of planes flies overhead over a matter of a few hours and they all leave chemtrails of some sort, and the otherwise totally clear sky becomes cloudy. Watch for those days and tell me something else is going on (I already know you will!). It happened during the course of this discussion and you were all like “wha? duh! look what google says!” You’re not ridiculing me or anybody, you’re making a fool of yourself.
May 23, 2014 at 5:29 pm
Anonymous
Mitch, you and eric are daddy’s boys. Neither of you will change your mind unless some gubmunt institution or similar tells you to.
May 23, 2014 at 6:23 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Last year 2013 was the fifty year anniversary of JFK murder, Alfred Hitchcock The Birds and Zachary Hitchcock fifty years old.
May 23, 2014 at 11:07 pm
Anonymous
Here’s your quote Mitch:
“For every sane-sounding person trying to point out the obvious, the cameras will move ten feet to find five crazies explaining how chemtrails are government mind-control.” (Mitch 5/514 2:31).
Mitch, you’ve spent a week ridiculing people for “seeing things that don’t exist” and yet, you claim that half of media reporting is distracted by “crazies”? I’ve never once seen chemtrails featured on mainstream news media.
Are you seeing chemtrails too???
I’m sorry that the 12-step program for addicted “demeaners” wasn’t right for you.
I would only ask you to reflect upon the stupidity and irrationality of claiming chemtrails are a distraction from obvious, serious and real issues…during your week-long self-indulgent mockery and ridicule that is a distraction itself from the obvious reality of Geo-engineering research behind chemtrails that merits your outrage. (Due to a continuation of the U.S. “scientific” community’s omission of human consequences as a critical part of science).
Thank you for the irony.
If you are still secretly interested, and serious about the healing process, STEP 3 of “Demeaners Anonymous” is understanding how ridicule and mockery are forms of hostility with chronic addiction an indications of a repressed conscience, rendering victims unable to care about consequences, distractions, rationality, or flexibility of thought.
May 24, 2014 at 6:47 am
Mitch
Thanks, Anonymous, but I’m afraid you misunderstood my point. The words that go inside the quotation marks are supposed to be the words the person wrote, in the order they wrote them, and without any extra words.
You seem like such a literal-minded person, Anonymous. You’ll find that literal-mindedness works really well in understanding the proper use of quotation marks.
Here, I’ll quote you, to make it clear…
Nutcase Anonymous, asserting that my week-long self-indulgent mockery and ridicule is a distraction, once again warned that geo-engineering research merits outrage. In a parenthetical comment, he (oh, please not she) explained the outrage is merited “[d]ue to a continuation of the U.S. ‘scientific’ community’s omission of human consequences as a critical part of science.”
This statement appears to ignore the many instances in which the scientific community is very focused on human consequences, often to be completely ignored by the public. It is consistent with the pattern he’s displayed on everything else — an inability to weigh evidence and an insistence that his few facts lead to conclusions which few people see as following from his few facts at all.
May 24, 2014 at 8:06 am
suzy blah blah
an inability to weigh evidence
-Anonymous –go fly a kite, LOL! Just kidding. But seriously, i think you need to be a little bit more experimental. For instance, you could take after Ben Franklin and his discovery of electricity. But where Ben attached a key and a leydon jar to the kite, you replace it with a turkey bag and a digital scale. Then you can catch the chemtrail and weigh the evidence. Simple as that. Suzy’s personal advice though, is that you bypass ridiculous clowns like Mitch and take the results straight to Alex Jones. Go for the big money down in the city. And, if there happens to be any lightning bolts in the sky the day you’re weighing your chemtrails, put some vinegar on the kite string, insulate it with tinfoil, and you’re good to go.
May 24, 2014 at 11:01 am
Anonymous
“This statement appears to ignore the many instances in which the scientific community is very focused on human consequences, often to be completely ignored by the public.”
However, once again, your statements completely ignore the many instances in which a federally operated scientific community is very focused on human consequences (among other objectives) yet fails to tell the public whatsoever that they’re being exposed to said instances. You completely ignore the scientists that concur something is going on. You completely ignore the pilots who concur something is going on. You completely ignore researchers themselves. You completely ignore the fact that this is a brand new phenomenon, being witnessed by countless people of sound mind all over the world. First and foremost, you ignore the very phenomenon itself, preferring to stare point blank at a computer screen describing like it’;s the sky itself. The “contrails” in question blanket the sky with cloudcover. That’s never been normal, especially here in Humboldt. Totally counter to reason, you refuse to even suspect something is going on despite all the proof that something is going on, centered around a very rapid and dramatic change in our own localized climate. It’s escalating fast, something needs to be done, and something is being done right over our heads. You completely ignore common sense.
May 24, 2014 at 12:03 pm
suzy blah blah
“Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin’ around
You should be made
To wear earphones
Because …
You’ve been with the professors
And they’ve all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You’ve been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald’s books
You’re very well read
It’s well known
But –something is happening here
And you don’t know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?”
May 24, 2014 at 10:54 pm
Anonymous
“Thanks, Anonymous, but I’m afraid you misunderstood my point. The words that go inside the quotation marks are supposed to be the words the person wrote, in the order they wrote them, and without any extra words.”
I quoted your paragraph exactly as it is referenced above.
Since you didn’t contest my interpretation of your quote you must concur that a week-long mock-fest is an abysmal waist of time and, more importantly, a distraction from the only uncontested fact, (and relevant context of chemtrails), in revealing Geo-engineering’s disgraceful example of U.S. science ignoring human impacts.
Yes, there is science that considers human impacts.
This is not one of them and, therefore, it merits your outrage.
Yes, it is ironic when you distract yourself from outrage by mocking others that you claim are distracting the public from…outrage…
Having followed your comments, I understand why you cannot answer honestly whether or not you would be shocked if this “science” were discovered to be field-tested somewhere. Due to your OCD-ridicule, it would be a painful act of contrition.
Thank you for re-entering the 12-step program for addicted “demeaners”.
STEP 4, asks that clients explain what purpose they feel addictive ridiculing and mocking serves.
STEP 5, utilizes examples of your behavior to inspire some accountability, mental flexibility and emotional maturity.
For example:
“My understanding is that someone finally went to the press (Tuskegee) and the gig was up within six months. If you know otherwise, I’d be interested.” (Mitch, 5/12/14 7:28).
Diminishing a human atrocity that was the result of secretive “scientific” experimentation costing dozens of lives was not a “gig” that was “up” just because the painful murders ceased.
If you have information that anyone was held accountable, adjudicated and sent to prison for Tuskegee, or for the poisoning and killing of hundreds of other indigent (mostly black) Americans by injecting them with plutonium, or the millions exposed to fallout from the Nevada nuclear tests, or the millions exposed to DDT sprayed door-to-door for years, (need more examples?), I’d be interested.
A prudent student of history could never be shocked to learn that chemtrails might actually have been, or is being field-tested somewhere without any worry of either discovery, or once discovered, accountability.
Journalists aren’t even reporting on the inhumane Geo-engineering seminars and toxic sun-refelctive models, despite your outrageous assertions that chemtrail “crazies” are distracting us from the “obvious” news.
Really??
May 25, 2014 at 7:41 am
Not A Native
This month’s Scientific American has an article about cloud seeding. There’s nothing new scientifically, its topical only because of current droughts.
Bottom line is that cloud seeding tests are very difficult to replicate so their results are still anecdotes, not data. It does mention that the chemtrail idea reduces public support for further tests.
May 25, 2014 at 8:50 am
Mitch
Nutcase Anonymous wrote: “I quoted your paragraph exactly as it is referenced above.”
Yes. You quoted a paragraph correctly in your response to my complaint of being misquoted. That would cause most of us to recognize I must have complained of an earlier misquote. It was three words, one of which I hadn’t used.
Nutcase Anonymous asks, sort of: “If you have information that anyone was held accountable, adjudicated and sent to prison for Tuskegee, or for the poisoning and killing of hundreds of other indigent (mostly black) Americans by injecting them with plutonium, or the millions exposed to fallout from the Nevada nuclear tests, or the millions exposed to DDT sprayed door-to-door for years, (need more examples?), I’d be interested.”
This is several questions, one of which is based on a real experiment that we all agree, one of which I haven’t previously heard of, and two which everyone knows about. To aid in clarity, I’ll split my answers so that each responds to only one expression of interest.
* * *
1. Tuskegee. The timeline here might be useful: http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm
To my knowledge, no one went to prison. Without specific knowledge, my suspicion is that, given that 127 black medical students were rotated through the study, a decision was made that it would be ridiculous to prosecute the low level medical students. Although I don’t know the details, I agree that the official in charge should have been prosecuted. But there were hearings, and perhaps information at the hearings explains why he was not. There was a $10 million reparations fund set up.
2. Plutonium injections. This was new to me, but appears at a quick glance to be well-documented. It’s a cold war tragedy, certainly. I have no information that anyone was adjudicated or sent to prison for these tests. I’d imagine that, in the hysteria of the time, the tests were considered absolutely necessary for “national security.”
3. Exposure to fallout from nuclear tests. The nuclear tests were not a medical experiment, though perhaps medical experiments were conducted in connection with the fallout. If the nation was going to test nuclear bombs and cause fallout, it does not strike me as unethical to conduct tests of the effects of the inevitable fallout. The nuclear tests I view as military in nature, perceived as an absolute necessity given the attitudes of the time. No one was adjudicated or jailed.
4. DDT. Again, DDT was not sprayed for purposes of medical experimentation — it was sprayed because it was thought at the time to be of use. It is hard for me to understand how anyone can connect DDT exposure to chemtrails. No one was adjudicated or jailed.
* * *
If your point is that the government has done bad things, you will not find anyone here who disagrees.
I’d imagine if your question was whether the government is doing bad things today, the answer from everyone here would be either “yes” or “most likely.”
But the question is whether there is any evidence for chemtrails. My answer continues to be no.
Your insistence on mixing the issues and ignoring everyone else is the reason I find you ridiculous. Your continued responses are the reason I ridicule you, along with whatever quirks of personality make me take the time to try to create humor out of your overflowing outrage.
May 25, 2014 at 9:37 am
Anonymous
Mitch, what’s with your overflowing outrage? You totally miss the point, but that’s no reason to get upset about it.
May 26, 2014 at 12:18 am
Anonymous
“It was three words, one of which I hadn’t used.”
Pray-tell Mitch…how did my paraphrase specifically alter the meaning of your paragraph?? (If it had, you might have a good point).
“But the question is whether there is any evidence for chemtrails. My answer continues to be no.”
Thank you for conceding that there is a question!
In addition to CRD, (Chronic Ridicule Disorder), you are also a chronic sophist, ie, repeatedly ignoring/misstating/dodging my actual question to suit your convenience, appease your ego, and justify your ridicule addiction, each one capable of exacting a huge cost of inflexibility of thought.
For days this question is unchanged and only one person answered honestly (above) by admitting that actual chemtrail field tests would be far less of a shock to learn about than all the outrageous exaggerations it was being compared to: Bigfoot, ancient aliens, mind control, etc…All quite shocking, if proven true!
We can certainly concur on your research of “science atrocities” which merely prove that prudence, not ridicule, is the logical and intelligent reaction to the possibility that if Geo-engineer’s models for chemtrails are being field tested somewhere, it would not be shocking considering other recent unaccountable human experimentation and unaccountable “science” excesses.
If you must keep repeating the STEPS, I must seriously reconsider continuing you in the 12-STEP “Demeaner’s Anonymous” program. “Nutcase”??
STEP 4: Most people would agree that actual “nutcases” and “crazies” do not merit the extraordinary distractions and ridicule you, Eric and a few others have displayed this past week. Endless ridicule and mockery are hardly “humorous” or merely personality “quirks” and I have offered several more likely and logical explanations days ago.
ANONYMOUS 9:37
Mitch faces the dilemma of either purposely “missing the point”, or conceding it.
NOT A NATIVE:
Thanks for the tip.
If history is any indication, we’ll learn in a decade or 5 that some of that cloud-seeding occasionally contained aluminum and barium particles that no one had the resources, ability, or the will to check.
What fool would be shocked?
May 26, 2014 at 3:15 am
suzy blah blah
-Anonymous, i want to bravely step forward to go on the record with the other commenters in agreeing with your question: yes, there may be something fishy going on. Count me in, i’m not too proud to change my mind. But the obstacle we run into in trying to follow your line of reasoning and considering your theory of chemtrails in the sky is that there isn’t any solid evidence. Just your conjecture. And the possibility of that being real is dismantled by the fact that the activity isn’t recorded on satellite camera archives. At least not that anybody has shown suzy up to this time. Now don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying that that there might not be a conspiracy going on like your people are convinced of. I’ll honor that evidence when and if any may come forward. But you need to come up with solid proof to show us here, you see, like the evidence that showed up on Google Earth last week of this hidden government/UFO/ made underwater tunnel to area 51 created by aliens 6.66 miles off the California coast:
http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/2014/05/massive-underwater-entrance-discovered-off-the-california-coast-2469318.html
This is real graphic news, verified by the people at the link. What you have is just a pipe dream of your own and a few other tin-foilers with their heads in the clouds. A nice hobby for you. But you show even more outstanding talent in your pseudo physiological Nazi styled profiling and obsessive interrogating of poor Mitch.
May 26, 2014 at 7:22 am
Mitch
Nutcase Anonymous,
When you paraphrase someone, please do not use quotation marks.
You may not have changed my meaning, but you came up with three words that don’t quite fit as English as I understand the language. Also, you removed some context, as the statement you misquoted followed the qualifier “[d]uring my more paranoid moments”
Also, sometimes people don’t understand what someone is trying to express, especially when humor is involved, so when they paraphrase the person, or remove surrounding context, they miss the person’s point. Then the person might find themselves trying to defend something they never actually said.
Here’s what I actually wrote:
Do I believe that the US government is funding the more wacko of the conspiracy theorists? The answer is no, I think that is unlikely. However, during my more paranoid moments, I wonder if some people in the CIA might actually be crazy enough to do that. They’ve done similarly idiotic stuff often enough that it is just barely conceivable.
May 26, 2014 at 11:30 am
Anonymous
I forgot the CIA wasn’t part of the government, and that they’re not responsible for far more fucked up shenanigans than propogating disinformation.
May 26, 2014 at 9:24 pm
Anonymous
While Mitch continues to rewrite my question to suit his “personality glitch”, (more accurately observed as a massive ego), here’s another noteworthy example of Mitch’s inflexible mind unable to comprehend his own stumbling into another irony:
“My understanding is that someone finally went to the press (Tuskegee) and the gig was up within six months. If you know otherwise, I’d be interested.” (Mitch, 5/12/14 7:28).
Mitch proceeds to dutifully cut and paste his own believable sources of Tuskegee and other past human experimentation, completely oblivious to his own discovery that no one was ever held accountable for these recent human atrocities….ie, the “gig was (NOT) up within 6 months”.
For those that need a reminder of Mitch’s last magnificent irony, he condemned chemtrails as a distraction from “obvious” real news, thus, “meriting” his week-long ridicule that is, in fact, a distraction from actual chemtrail models developed by Geo-engineers lacking consideration of human impacts.
I have no idea if these models are actually being tested, I’ve never claimed they were.
Again, only 2 of the posters on this blog appear to have enough mental flexibility to concur that it would certainly be no shock to learn if actual field-testing of chemtrails were taking place somewhere and that the existence of these models merit outrage due to their omission of human-consequence consideration.
Week-long obsessions ridiculing and mocking individuals that are equally obsessed by concern, is merely a distraction from an unacceptable “scientific” legacy proven to continue today.
There’s no “humor” here outside the self-indulgent excess of individuals enjoying sharing the discomfort of their own lives being projected via ridicule and mockery onto others.
May 26, 2014 at 9:54 pm
Eric Kirk
It’s a vicious circle man!
May 27, 2014 at 6:30 am
Mitch
Thank you, Nutcase Anonymous, for being accurate in your quote.
May 27, 2014 at 6:39 am
Anonymous
“There’s no “humor” here outside the self-indulgent excess of individuals enjoying sharing the discomfort of their own lives being projected via ridicule and mockery onto others.”
Funny, no. I, personally, get to see the various ways two absent non-witnesses can describe the scene of the crime incorrectly. There are much more profound changes of mind than conceding to chemtrails, like deciding to move to a new city, or a big change in wardrobe. Chemtrails are a material phenomenon, viewable by all. While obviously very few people have the time or place to really pay attention to the various patterns of behavior going on in the sky, from migrating birds to weather patterns to airline flight paths and the planes that are definitely dropping contrails over our heads now and then, neither eric nor mitch will admit that they’re not among those few. Yet, they’re experts. It’s just so darned implausible that controlled climate stabilization is in full effect, globally. Want evidence? The dramatically changing climate in Humboldt and the chemtrails in Humboldt and the global talk of just such projects. Pay attention. Eric Kirk is on skywatch day twelve or so? I’m on skywatch day several thousand.
May 27, 2014 at 6:46 am
Mitch
Nutcase Anonymous wrote: “the existence of these models [should] merit outrage due to their omission of human-consequence consideration.”
I don’t think the existence of various “hail Mary” weather modification models merits outrage. In fact, I believe very much the opposite. I also believe they take human consequences into account, or at least attempt to do so.
Our political processes have shown themselves to be incapable of responding with sanity to what we are doing to our planet via the continued burning of fossil fuels in amounts that overwhelm our planet’s handling capacity. Therefore, I think it is appropriate to work on what to do if our political processes remain incapacitated.
I understand that there are reasonable people out there who feel that by creating alternatives, those who work on the “hail Mary” approaches are weakening the pressure buildup needed to convince people in power to do the sane things now necessary. I understand their point of view but due to my pessimistic attitude towards today’s power systems, I think they are wrong.
That’s weather modification. I’m not sure if that’s the kind of chemtrails NA is talking about. If he’s referring to mind-control chemtrails, I’m all for those as well, and hope some clever guy who cares about the future is able to spray DC with 100% coverage.
May 27, 2014 at 8:57 am
suzy blah blah
-now suzy’s distracted! And you can blame Mitch’s “humor” for it. Dang! There’s really no way to stop the distraction either because they’re putting aluminum right into the tinfoil now. Who’s “they” you ask? –the corporations –duh. So i’m gonna run my car’s engine in the yard all day and hope the exhaust fumes will rise up to counter the bad effects coming down on us from the sky. And next time it hails i’m gonna test the hail mary stones by putting them in my bong water. That’s real. I don’t see any of you others doing anything to save the earth except your toxic daily blog modification programs.
May 27, 2014 at 9:22 am
Mitch
Just yesterday I recycled.
May 27, 2014 at 9:22 am
Mitch
Two ! cans.
May 27, 2014 at 10:48 am
suzy blah blah
-but isn’t recycling aluminum cans into chemtrailis part of the problem? If all the aluminum dissipates in the air what will suzy have left to drink from?
May 27, 2014 at 11:25 am
Anonymous
“If he’s referring to mind-control chemtrails, I’m all for those as well,”
They’re controlling your mind, that’s for sure. Sheeit, you haven’t even been watching the skies yet whenever anybody even says the word “chemtrail”, you uncontrollably wax tinfoil. Congrats, you’ve been pwned by misinformation.
May 27, 2014 at 12:05 pm
suzy blah blah
-a new informative study shows that the wackos who are watching the sky all the time for chemtrails are having their minds controlled by subliminal messages.
I myself noticed several trails this morning that spelled out the message “buy gmo food”, but by the time i finished my coffee and got my camera out they had dissipated leaving no evidence. Once again everything was back to “normal” –except the hidden directive now buried deep in the minds of the innocent.
May 27, 2014 at 12:16 pm
Mitch
Anonymous,
True, blah has no evidence to offer at all. S/he’s up front about that.
But based on what you know of the gubmint, won’t you admit that what she suggests COULD be happening?
Confess. Confess! CONFESS!!!!
May 27, 2014 at 12:25 pm
suzy blah blah
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRw3_PUrcNdrjM2BxtspZ6qmLrazCmrmuPzF1b3RrmF2Ge81XIK
May 27, 2014 at 12:35 pm
Mitch
Dayum!
May 27, 2014 at 1:14 pm
suzy blah blah
-since it’s time for confessions, Mitch, i want to once again confess to my part in stealing the trustafarian’s Nikes. But it really wasn’t due to any self indulgent excess on my part, or even to projecting my discomfort onto someone else. I swear to you on suzy’s good name it wasn’t –it was the chemtrail’s subliminal messaging that made this poor girl go and be so bad.
May 27, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Anonymous
“Anonymous, True, blah has no evidence to offer at all. S/he’s up front about that. But based on what you know of the gubmint, won’t you admit that what she suggests COULD be happening?Confess. Confess! CONFESS!!!!”
I don’t read what bla writes. Why the fuck do you?
May 27, 2014 at 5:59 pm
Anonymous
A few years ago, what must have been a huge truck took out an entire streetlight on the intersection a block away from my place, and dumped it in the middle of the my street as it sped off. I’d heard the truck driving up fast, dragging something heavy and metal, and a couple seconds later a loud clanging right outside. By the time I made it outside well enough to see the streetlight lying in the middle of the road, the truck was hauling ass way down the main street. This was after midnight. So I moved the pole to the side of the road. It had broken into two main components: the upper portion which had the “walk/don’t walk” light, and the bottom portion which was most of the pole and two standard crosswalk button boxes. I’d never guessed either portion would have weighed as much as they do. Also, the “walk/don’t walk” light box is much larger than I might have modeled one to be had I never seen one up close. I guess we’re used to only paying attention to them from across the street before wiping them from any scope of focus. In my mind’s eye they appear small, and it was a revelatory experience to realize their substantial bulk. It’s gotta be like that with chemtrails for eric and mitch. They’re late in the game. They’ve never payed any attention and they know it. They aren’t talking about the same phenomenon countless sane people are talking about. They’re talking about the internet.
May 27, 2014 at 11:27 pm
Anonymous
“I don’t think the existence of various “hail Mary” weather modification models merits outrage. In fact, I believe very much the opposite. I also believe they take human consequences into account, or at least attempt to do so.” (Mitch May 27, 2014 at 6:46 am).
You will not be the last to confuse weather and climate, (or feelings for thoughts).
Early in this post, a documentary featured Geo-engineers describing models of dispersing megatons of aluminum and barium particles (chemtrails) for the purpose of reflecting the sun’s rays away from Earth in an attempt to effect climate change. During two separate seminars these “scientists” are specifically asked if their research included human impact considerations. They admitted that they had not.
And that, Mitch, merits outrage. Especially considering the U.S. legacy of human experimentation atrocities that you dutifully researched.
However, I understand how painful it might be for an ego of your prominence to allow the mental flexibility of conceding how past atrocities become future atrocities when there’s no outrage. To be sure, outrage must permeate this culture to sufficiently begin to address this nation’s excesses.
You are capable of outrage, as we see in another justification for your ridicule: “Your insistence on mixing the issues and ignoring everyone else is the reason I find you ridiculous”. (Mitch May 25, 2014 at 8:50 am). Needless to point out, you have wondered far from the point of this string while I have referred many of my posts directly to its premise, “a flexible mind”.
And still, you type volumes to avoid answering a very simple question that was honestly (reluctantly) answered by 2 others, plus SBB, days ago.
How many more shameless dodges will you suffer yourself through, before you admit that it would not be as “shocking” to learn that the U.S. was field-testing chemtrails somewhere…than to see an actual “ancient alien” or “Bigfoot”?
The results of your sophist-charade are ten days of posts that are unanimously imbecile, ironic and pernicious in that their only effect is to make what was bad a whole lot worse by distracting a serious issue with endless self-serving ridicule.
Each of your “nutcase” epithets is another sad reminder of what is being felt by its author….
(Thank you Eric, if this had been “Heraldo” I would have been censored long ago after a defiant “FU”).
May 28, 2014 at 6:06 am
Mitch
Thanks, 11:27. You’re the guy who had the multiple ID’s at the Herald which you used to agree with yourself. OK.
You’re right.
May 28, 2014 at 6:52 am
Mitch
Mitch, May 16, 6:26 AM:
A, May 20,
Mitch, May 21,
But you are right, Nutcase Anonymous, I have not directly responded to your question. Would I be as shocked to learn that CLIMATE modification efforts were being conducted by the government as I would be to discover Bigfoot. I would not. That’s because they are not secret. Look at the references in this Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation_management
They include Nature and New Scientist, a widely read journal and a widely read magazine in the scientific community, but also Wired magazine, a general interest consumer publication.
Or try wikipedia for “Cloud reflectivity modification” or list of proposed geoengineering schemes and look at their references. Here’s one from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/6354759.stm
But it’s coming back now. You think my belief that various things are completely in the open, and that it is the public’s fault for not caring is a case of “blaming the victim.” That has made me, in your mind, an awful person, because it doesn’t fit with your dogma of how good “the people” are:
(1) if only they knew how outrageous X is, they would rise up against X
therefore:
(2) people do not know about X
because
(3) the media is hiding X (or, when X receives coverage, the coverage does not make clear how aful X is, or, when X receives coverage, it is not enough, or, Nutcase Anonymous’ precise sense of outrage has not been successfully conveyed, no matter how many times X is mentioned in the media.
As I’ve said upthread, I understand why some people believe climate (OK?) modification research is a bad thing, offering political leaders the fig leaf of a fallback position for what they will do once their inaction has basically irreparably damaged the lives of a few billion people. As I said upthread, I disagree. I think it’s vital for some people to research the fallback position, because I don’t see your sainted public having risen up in the 1990s, when it might have helped. It’s probably because of The New York Times not covering the issue enough, right?
May 28, 2014 at 7:15 am
Mitch
May 28, 2014 at 9:48 am
suzy blah blah
Thanks, 11:27. You’re the guy who had the multiple ID’s at the Herald which you used to agree with yourself. OK.
-such a flexible mind!
May 28, 2014 at 1:18 pm
suzy blah blah
the “walk/don’t walk” light box is much larger than I might have modeled one to be had I never seen one up close
-exactly, and what’s looming large in the sky doesn’t really seem so big to Mitch and Eric when they see it on their little 12inch screens. The danger is real, there’s no doubt about it. But you’ll be safe if you can remember that when you come to a broken “Walk/don’t walk” sign, you can always look to the heavens for direction. If you see chemtrails making an “X” –you know not to cross.
May 28, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Mitch
Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin, The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe:
May 28, 2014 at 7:13 pm
Anonymous
Eric wrote: “I’m still waiting for an explanation as to how the perpetual stratosheric winds can push the contrail effects in all directions.”
Jeebus, how did I miss this? Eric wants to tell me about how clouds work yet this is how limited his knowledge is? The picture I took of the myriad of chemtrails above the eur/arc/mck area shows two currents, one more east/west, the other northeast/northwest. Was that the day you said you only saw two contrails in the sky? It’s somewhere in this thread, eric says he saw two contrails on a day I sw over eight. And eric’s also admiutted he’s never seen contrai;s cross. Duh. Eric Kirk has never paid any real attention to the sky whatsoever. Tell you what, I’ll sell you the pics for a mere hunnert dolla! Cuz I’ve never been trying to prove nuthin to nobody about this.
May 29, 2014 at 12:21 am
Anonymous
It took many days but Mitch finally conceded that people obsessed with chemtrails are incomparable to people obsessed with “Bigfoot, mind-control, or ancient aliens” among other exaggerations. It’s an admission that proves that his, and others, week-long mock-fest merely serve to gratify an apparently insatiable pleasure harvested from ridiculing and mocking others, if hundreds of posts by 6 people are any indication.
Worst of all, (also dodged for days), is the video evidence provided early in this string showing visibly uncomfortable geo-engineers describing how human impacts were not considered in their chemtrail models.
Any altruistic-minded student of historic human atrocities would be outraged in seeing this legacy continuing today by geo-engineer “scientists”. Instead of outrage, (and embarrassment in distracting from this issue with his ridicule), Mitch’s fallback position is to simply dispatch any concern for human impacts by fabricating a “necessity-clause”, not unlike the machinations that take place to justify every other atrocity in history.
Following his week of degrading chemtrail-worriers, Mitch makes the case for its use! (Mental flexibility, or convenience?).
No sane person is capable of enduring another week trying to get Mitch to further concede that he was also wrong about: “the gig was up in 6 months at Tuskegee” or, for that matter, any of the other known human atrocities where no one is prosecuted.
Maybe Mitch can research which historic human massacres were justified, I would be interested to know.
Mitch is not a “bad person” but his display here betrays his sanity, further illustrated by another OCD admission in Mitch’s need to isolate the identity of individuals making comments in an anonymous venue! For all I know, every other post on this blog, except for Eric, is Mitch. If “another Mitch” appears to support Mitch and his reasoning seems sound I might chose to respond, and I might not… Get it?
I don’t mind a megalomaniac here and there complaining about and condemning a communication medium they cannot avert their gaze from…but the ridicule and malevolence displayed here is sickening. Yes Mitch, why not just mock the whole damn race with “sainted public”??
You have no idea how the public would respond if they were routinely kept informed of issues relevant to their lives, nor can predict that the public would refuse good jobs or accept buckets of heroin if they were generously provided.
May 29, 2014 at 6:15 am
Mitch
“Mitch’s fallback position is to simply dispatch any concern for human impacts by fabricating a “necessity-clause”, not unlike the machinations that take place to justify every other atrocity in history.”
Exactly, NA. Exactly. No true reader could miss that.
May 29, 2014 at 11:15 am
John Graebner
Warning to Anonymous posters:
You’re “debating” a loon that exaggerates or dismisses the same issue to feed his ego:
Mitch
May 13, 2014
12:03 pm
“Do you not think it’s even worth mentioning that this (climate change) is estimated to take place over the next 1000 or more years, with millimeter sized annual impacts for a century or so?”
May 29, 2014 at 6:15 am
Mitch
“As I’ve said upthread, I understand why some people believe climate (OK?) modification research is a bad thing, offering political leaders the fig leaf of a fallback position for what they will do once their inaction has basically irreparably damaged the lives of a few billion people. As I said upthread, I disagree.”
Considering human impacts as part of science is a no-brainer.
May 29, 2014 at 12:17 pm
suzy blah blah
-you can lead em to tartar, but you can’t make em clam up.
May 29, 2014 at 12:17 pm
Eric Kirk
Jeebus, how did I miss this? Eric wants to tell me about how clouds work yet this is how limited his knowledge is? The picture I took of the myriad of chemtrails above the eur/arc/mck area shows two currents, one more east/west, the other northeast/northwest.
No, that is absolutely false science. At the upper tropospheric and stratospheric level there are not two currents that could act on the same contrail except possibly at around Latitude 30 where equatorial winds may differ. These winds are geostrophic – there aren’t many local conditions which can alter them. Another exception is at the poles where there are sometimes vortex winds, particularly in the winter. But at our latitude it is extremely unlikely that you’re going to find distinct wind currents at that altitude, even in the winter. Even in the lower troposphere, it’s very rare that you will have two discernible currents which could affect one cloud. But at the higher levels, they pretty much travel east for one half the year, and west for the other. Even jet streams are hundreds of miles wide and several miles thick vertically, and they don’t often run against currents in the opposite direction, but simply run faster than the surrounding winds.
No, if you saw a contrail spread out east and west, the only possible explanation is physics-defying magic. It might look like it’s spreading east and west, but the whole thing has blown one direction and you simply don’t have a reference point to see it.
Magic. That’s your only argument.
May 29, 2014 at 12:32 pm
Mitch
John Graebner also feels the need to misquote me:
“Do you not think it’s even worth mentioning that this (climate change) is estimated to take place over the next 1000 or more years, with millimeter sized annual impacts for a century or so?”
See the phrase “climate change” in parentheses? That wasn’t the subject, now, was it? The subject was the topic of the misleading TE headline, the shearing off of an Antarctic ice shelf raising ocean levels, independent of other factors, including other climate change factors. The TE headline left the implication that at any moment, sea level was about to jump by a few meters. That’s simply not the case. It’s the equivalent of Fox News.
I’m one of those people who thinks that instead of taking every story that, if misunderstood, could possibly help sway people to your side on an issue and trying to make it even more alarming than it is, it is better to try to tell people the truth about an issue. In the case of climate change, the truth is alarming enough, and smart people have a tendency to feel betrayed when they discover — as they will — that you’ve been shoveling your own brand of shit because your cause is so important.
Not sure what to say to you, John Graebner. Thanks for using a name.
May 29, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Mitch
For anyone curious, feel free to test out your reading skills: https://tuluwatexaminer.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/bayshore-mall-target-and-101-part-of-the-bay/
May 29, 2014 at 5:41 pm
Anonymous
“Magic. That’s your only argument”
For a mere hunnert dolla, I’ll send you the pics and you tell me what’s going on. I’m looking at the pictures again for the first time in awhile and yeah, the chemtrails really just became a flat haze, pretty hard to discern but looks like two directions, primarily east/west. Last month we watched a chemtrail formed above the natural front that immediately fell below it within minutes, and continued to drop until it was just an omnipresent haze. Seen that a few times the last couple of years. The pics I took show a clear criss cross of chemtrails that dissipated and covered the sky in a matter of a few hours, and whereas I thought I had a timelapse of five pics, it’s only four. All pics show chemtrails being formed. Look at timelapse pics on the internets. Ignore the video soundtracks and the hippy dippy talk. That didn’t happen here before. Now it’s happening. You haven’t paid any attention. You’re lame.
May 29, 2014 at 6:54 pm
Anonymous
What Graebner said…
May 29, 2014 at 7:40 pm
Anonymous
…was a misquote.
May 29, 2014 at 9:26 pm
suzy blah blah
-so after loosing the argument NA decides to continue on with the insults and smack talk anyway. This time under the name John Graebner –LOL! I can’t really say suzy’s shocked.
May 29, 2014 at 9:50 pm
Anonymous
And once again, despite the misquotes, the point(s) made by Mr. Graebner and myself are unchanged, thus providing our eager sophist his next predictable, convoluted dodge.
Mr. Graebner correctly points out how Mitch DIMINISHED the urgency of rising tides, a critical component of climate change, in order to criticize the Tuluwat Examiner, without ONE WORD about the human impacts already being suffered around the globe from rising tides!
On the other hand, Mitch is now compelled to EMPHASIZE the current urgency by FABRICATING “a few billion people…irreparably damaged” in order to suit his assertion that chemtrail research is “vital”, yet, stopping short of conceding that this “fig leaf” effort ignores the human impacts and long term casualties that are well-within the capability of scientists to estimate.
Mitch is forced to ignore Mr. Graebner’s concluding point, “Considering human impacts as part of science is a no-brainer.” Otherwise, Mitch would have to further concede that intelligent judgments on chemtrail “science” is impossible without it.
How long did it take Mitch to concede that chemtrails are incomparable to “mind-control” and “Bigfoot”?
It takes an ego of psychotic proportion not to smell the stench of his own “brand of shit”, an unbridled ego that caused the evacuation of a beloved blogsite and its enduring epitaph: “Murdered By Hern Bloginator”.
May 30, 2014 at 12:23 am
Anonymous
Once again, no one on this thread has pointed to any evidence whatsoever that the contrails we see in our skies are “chemtrails” or have anything at all to do with geoengineering…Mr Big Mouth’s endless onanistic blatherings notwithstanding.
May 30, 2014 at 6:12 am
Mitch
What a shame that the media hasn’t told people about climate change. If they only knew, they’d take action.
May 30, 2014 at 12:19 pm
Eric Kirk
I bet that you didn’t know that militant atheists are using chemtrails to poison angels in Heaven!
http://harddawn.com/are-militant-atheists-using-chemtrails-to-poison-the-angels-in-heaven/
May 30, 2014 at 10:22 pm
John Graebner
How surprising that Mitch condemns the public for diddling in the face of climate catastrophe as he delves deeper into 13 days of belittling flapdoodle.
May 31, 2014 at 7:56 am
Mitch
John Graebner,
Sorry. The Nutcase Anonymous stuff wore me out, so the only thing I have remaining strength for is to complement your new ID for coming up with “belittling flapdoodle.” Not bad at all.
Try a few more new IDs and I’ll probably just melt like the Wicked Witch of the West.
June 1, 2014 at 11:44 pm
Anonymous
Indeed, it must be exhausting!
“It’s the fault of a ‘nutcase anonymous’, (that I cannot ignore).
No wait; it’s the fault of ‘multiple identities’, (that I cannot ignore).
No wait; it’s ‘all that vitriol’, (that I cannot ignore on Heraldo).
No wait; it’s the ‘chemtrail hoax’, (that I cannot ignore).
No wait; it’s those ‘trolls’ that are the worst, (and that I cannot ignore).
No Wait; it’s irrelevant misquotes (that I cannot ignore).
No wait; it’s the ‘sainted public’ that are to blame! (Not I).”
My sincere condolences for all the unpleasantness you suffer upon yourself, may you never deplete your scapegoats.
June 2, 2014 at 6:20 am
Mitch
Yeah. Thanks for the empathy.
June 2, 2014 at 6:43 am
Anonymous
Mitch, I’m begging you, please, I BEG YOU PLEEEEEZ! Please mitch PLEASE!!!!! PLEASE try to imagine yourself growing up a black kid in a ghetto. PLEASE. YOU NEED TO CONSIDER WHAT IT”S LIKE FOR REELZ.
June 2, 2014 at 9:32 am
Mitch
6:43,
I’m glad you get it. You might be surprised if you ever checked out how many people do not.