Redwood Wonk – we discuss whether the Democrats are prepared for the chaos of the coming election campaign; the politics of the rule of law; and the academic left’s inability to talk to people
January 4, 2024 in Uncategorized | by Eric Kirk
January 4, 2024 in Uncategorized | by Eric Kirk
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January 5, 2024 at 4:23 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Hmmm, the left is unable to talk to others? Clearly the left is able to others and do it very well, there are plenty of example in media such as the Nation, Kacobin and Dissent and I can give great examples of some of the best out there if anyone is interested. I have no idea what specific example Eric is bait-clicking about but this might be an off-shoot of the complaint about social media impoliteness and/or the recent “screaming” left.
If you are in a lower class (ie poor) or working class (ie you time and labor is spent doing mundane or repetitive work with little to no intellectual value or interest and often little to no hope for promotion, especially to a higher managerial class and you don’t have what is needed to be a professional (ie the *working class* of the left) then you a) tend to get passionate or angry about politics because of how much it influences your and your family’s life and b) you might not have the education or social background of a white lawyer in Humboldt and c) you are being ignored and shunned by one party and pandered too by lying and racist self-interested boobs or cops in the other party.
When I call SoHum the #BastionOfNeoliberalism, this is a part of what I’m talking about. The comments from my dear fellow SoHum readers speak for themselves, and THEN we have this oft-recurring targeting of an ambiguous “the left” who is completely out of power and very little if any critique of the mechanism (ie money & it’s influence on the Democratic Party b/c, well, f*ck the GOP) and implementation (ie white & Judeo-Christian supremacy, war, policing & mass incarceration, inability or reluctance or ambivalence about passing national legislation at all- forget legislation that would cost the PMC and benefit the poor and working class, etc) of power.
Fine Eric, your bait click worked; I’m in, to listen to the other side, as I do Glenn Beck.
January 5, 2024 at 5:34 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
And let’s not forget something, Eric ran, and is a current member of the progressive slate of CA-ADEMs. Can we agree Eric that advocacy and solidarity are not your strongest suits?
January 6, 2024 at 11:52 am
Henchman Of Justice
Personally, the academic left does not have a problem, nor inability to “talk to people”… but the left does exhibit an inability to “speak to people” … cuz they be always only talking… like the right… talk talk talk…
…like air guitar playing…but the noise is mouthy, muttered and meaningless…
January 6, 2024 at 6:27 pm
Anonymous
1200 protestors arrested on Jan 6, and not one charged with “insurrection”, but that’s what libtards want you to believe Trump masterminded. Silly girls….
January 6, 2024 at 11:08 pm
Eric Kirk
Two Proud Boys were convicted of sedition, which is incitement to insurrection. The 1200 were just brain dead pawns who were played. The insurrection wasn’t just Jan 6, but also the attempt to stack the DOJ with flunkies, the fake electors, the threats against public officials, and all the other components of Eastman’s plan to have Trump hold power.
Maybe you should have paid attention to the Jan 6 Committee testimony.
January 7, 2024 at 6:14 am
Anonymous
The charge was “seditious conspiracy to obstruct”. No mention of “insurection”. No wonder you’ve never had any success as a lawyer. Maybe you should have studied harder in school…..
January 7, 2024 at 8:17 am
Mitch
Remember Trump getting upset that the Secret Service wasn’t letting people with guns come hear his speech that day? “They’re not going to use them on me.”
January 7, 2024 at 8:19 am
Mitch
I meant trump, not Trump.i know it’s silly, but not as silly as calling middle aged men girls.
January 7, 2024 at 8:50 am
Eric Kirk
From the American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, for the literacy challenged.
sedition /sĭ-dĭsh′ən/
noun
1. Conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of a state.
2. Insurrection; rebellion.
3. A factious commotion in a state; the stirring up of such a commotion; incitement of discontent against government and disturbance of public tranquillity, as by inflammatory speeches or writings, or acts or language tending to breach of public order: as, to stir up a sedition; a speech or pamphlet, abounding in sedition.
Bold of text added.
January 7, 2024 at 9:19 am
bolithio
Its the age of nuance. You can use terms to describe things, or argue against them depending on your beliefs. Some people see things happening before their very eyes and use the words to describe what they are seeing. Others will instantly argue with you that those words do not mean what they mean.
Also, I see your ‘left cant talk to people’ and raise you with ‘the center cant listen to people’.
January 7, 2024 at 9:26 am
Anonymous
Vang…. if you can’t understand the difference between “sedition” and “insurrection”, then I can’t help you….
January 7, 2024 at 11:21 am
Anonymous
Jon is using The Nation as a positive example of communication from “The Left”? Seriously? (I guess if you’re talking about the defend Russia at all costs no matter what Stalinist Left, then Jon may be correct.). Katrina vanden Heuvel’s tenure has been a disaster for The Nation, and what would have possibly ever made them want to keep her at the helm? Does she work for free, because I certainly wouldn’t pay her for a damn thing! Every time her condescending, self-righteous ugly mug appeared on ABC’s This Week over the past several years, my reaction to every one of her TV appearances was there’s 100,000 more votes for Trump…. Thanks Katrina!
January 7, 2024 at 2:41 pm
Eric Kirk
Anonymous – nor I you, since I just presented the dictionary definition, and the fact that they are equated in enforcement as a matter of law by 18 U.S. Code sections 2383 and 2384. The only practical difference is that sedition involves joint liability through a conspiracy. Insurrection is the lesser included offense if the jury does not find sedition.
Again, what Trumper suckers did wasn’t necessarily either. They just did what Trump told them to do – as they understood it.
January 7, 2024 at 3:04 pm
Anonymous
Yep, a real insurrectionist…..
January 7, 2024 at 3:59 pm
Eric Kirk
As it turns out, some people think actions, or lack thereof, are more important than words. And it was a dollar short and literally a day late. And he said this when McCarthy and other Republicans were still talking about holding him to account.
January 7, 2024 at 5:41 pm
Anonymous
Ironic that Former Eureka Police Officer is such a huge fan of this confirmed rapist, serial fraudster and insurrectionist. Apparently “law and order” is just for the little people, while billionaires, at least of the extreme right wing variety, can do whatever they want.
January 8, 2024 at 1:06 am
Anonymous
Sedition is insurrection. Duh.
January 8, 2024 at 4:54 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
A receipt worth remembering and screaming about…
For all those asking why there is no education in Gaza. We bombed them. That sucks. That’s how you will never become engineers anymore”
Israeli soldier standing afront Al-Azhar university.
https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1743411493813575711
January 8, 2024 at 6:21 am
Henchman Of Justice
rebel (noun) a person who rises in opposition or armed resistance against an established government or ruler.
verb
/rəˈbel/
rise in opposition or armed resistance to an established government or ruler.
Trump is innocent in this, even though Trump is a douche-wad hack…and definitely not no Robin Hood…
January 8, 2024 at 6:37 am
Henchman Of Justice
and fundamentally, insurrection is literally written into American society, for without insurrectionists, USA would not exist at all today… and if Insurrection is used to hop up the existence of America, then it (insurrection as a reasoning) argues to the same that insurrection can be used to bring down America when America has gone away from American fundamentals… It’s a culture thing and there are Caucasian people in America who desire to only sabotage America from within because they are not internally Caucasian, apparently… as the cast and crew prep for production podcasts and such… that America is White Supremacy…, no different than Africa is black supremacy or China is pale white supremacy… or Mexico is brown supremacy… lol… a skin tone will be supreme when population math dictates such!
January 8, 2024 at 7:11 am
Mitch
Wow! Proof that there’s a person serving in the IDF who was pleased with the destruction of a building. Alas, we will never know whether this person lost their fiance on 10/7, or their child, or their mother or father or brother or sister.
January 8, 2024 at 8:08 am
Henchman Of Justice
For Mitchboi Jew…
Wow! Proof that there’s a person serving in Hamas who was pleased with the destruction of a building. Alas, we will never know whether this person lost their fiance prior to 10/7, or their child, or their mother or father or brother or sister.
January 8, 2024 at 8:17 am
Henchman Of Justice
…understanding liberal dialect is to understand that liberals hate history that exposes liberalized hypocrites… explains why history studies are so frowned upon in public schools… in favor of liberal ebonics and immersion programs, and and and… lap-dances by queers upon youths in school settings.. although, the queer peer groupies had to ensure that the student’s school desk was replaced with a “prop chair”… FACTOID!
January 8, 2024 at 10:43 am
Eric Kirk
Henchman – henceforth anytime I see a post with the phrase “Nazi Jew” I’m zapping it. I can’t keep up with it all, but to the best of my ability, raw antisemitism will not be tolerated.
January 8, 2024 at 3:46 pm
Henchman Of Justice
EK, GFY!
January 8, 2024 at 4:39 pm
Henchman Of Justice
The Nazis aimed to unite all Germans living in historically German territory, as well as gain additional lands for German expansion under the doctrine of Lebensraum and exclude those whom they deemed either Community Aliens or “inferior” races (Untermenschen).
January 8, 2024 at 4:55 pm
Henchman Of Justice
Lebensraum (German pronunciation: [ˈleːbənsˌʁaʊm] ⓘ, living space) is a German concept of expansionism and Völkisch nationalism, the philosophy and policies of which were common to German politics from the 1890s to the 1940s. First popularized around 1901,[2] Lebensraum became a geopolitical goal of Imperial Germany in World War I (1914–1918), as the core element of the Septemberprogramm of territorial expansion.[3] The most extreme form of this ideology was supported by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany. Lebensraum was a leading motivation of Nazi Germany to initiate World War II, and it would continue this policy until the end of the conflict.[4]
Reads like the current day Semitic Agenda being acted upon towards Muslims… Palestinians…
…It is obvious Pro-Semitic supporters only desire gas chambers are not ever used on Palestinians, but all else is fine…
January 8, 2024 at 5:21 pm
Henchman Of Justice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
6 million jews murdered by Nazi Aryans, but also 6 million non-jews as well murdered by Nazi Aryans…
… Pro-Semitic supporters are like, “Whew, good thing Palestinians only number 5 million and are divvied-up already, segregated into 2 areas…won’t need to travel a quarter of the world to round them up and kill ’em…”
January 8, 2024 at 5:31 pm
Henchman Of Justice
The notion of the “chosen people” is very far from the idea of a “master race”. The descendants of 12 patriarchs who were sons of Jacob (İsrael), the son of Isaac, the grandson of Abraham, who initiated the covenant with God are depicted as anything but “The Master Race” and their chosenness is explicitly not because of any superiority. The Children of İsrael were rather picked only in honour of the few righteous people who had caught God’s attention.
God offered to Moses to destroy the entire nation at Mt Sinai and it was only spared thanks to Moses begging God not to do it and essentially saying “I know they are crap but they are my people and if you want to destroy them, start with me”.
And then there are the prophetic writings…… Honestly, as a Jew, if you want to feel all superior and full of yourself, don’t read the Bible! We do not come out of it looking so great.
Chosenness is a bit like being the rat chosen to get the experimental cancer drugs. God loves us apparently, but his way of showing it is rather unique. It is clear God does not not love other people either, especially if you read the prophetic litetature. Being Jewish just means you get to do extra chores and extra homework while your brothers and sisters get to go play in the garden and periodically give you a kicking.
So no. Being Jewish does not make you part of any “master race” it just means you get the dubious honour of being judge according to your performance of 613 commandments the rest of the world can happily ignore without consequence.~ Shayn M.
January 8, 2024 at 5:41 pm
Anonymous
Putin’s reaction to the Lloyd Austin story…..
January 8, 2024 at 6:15 pm
bolithio
Jon, this article by Seraj Assi sums up my feelings about this perfectly.
https://jacobin.com/2024/01/liberal-west-2023-joe-biden-palestine-war-gaza-israeli-nakba
January 9, 2024 at 12:04 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
Maybe Eric it’s time to give HOJ a time out if you can’t keep up? I can’t unsee 8:08 am yesterday but now one else should have to see it in the first place.
Bolithio, I’ll check it out. I can’t believe our country. I knew things were bad but I didn’t understand just how bad they were until now. I won’t lose hope but those on the left have a long, if righteous struggle ahead of use to change this country so it sees & protects the humanity common in all people, not just our friends.
January 9, 2024 at 12:14 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
Great piece bolithio! Thank you for sharing it. No lies detected and it speaks for me perfectly too. Hollow liberalism indeed, and never has it been so clear.
January 9, 2024 at 7:16 pm
bolithio
Have any of you read the South Africa Genocide Case Brief? You should. Especially all the undeniable, on-the-record hate speech coming from the top down of all of Israeli positions of power and media. There are pages and pages of this insane rhetoric in the brief. Its astounding. From what I have read, intent is often hard to prove in a genocide case. Israel from the top down has been extremely vocal with genocidal commentary and that – when combined with the reality on the ground and history leading to this current situation – makes the case very strong.
Click to access 192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
Biden, by doing everything to prevent a cease fire – and rushing a never ending flow of weapons to use on a civilian population – is complicit in this genocide.
January 10, 2024 at 5:13 am
Henchman Of Justice
If the United States of America is a separation of church and state society, then why are tax payers funding foreign judaism church religious wars?
Answer: TO BUY INFLUENCE, FUND OPPRESSION
January 10, 2024 at 5:27 am
Henchman Of Justice
Jonboi Turk wants Henchy timed-out… facts make the eyes suffer, as does the conscious “guilt by association” example references…
…JT needs to go find himself too… truthful equal opportunities for both MJ and JT… to organize their “wows”… after previously inciting the fact teller…
January 10, 2024 at 5:48 am
Henchman Of Justice
Any Americanized Jew whom supports the occupation and all else against Palestinians… could move back to the region to show their support, so the rest of America can be spared from their falsified cries of the foreign jewish culture… and spared from the Jekyll and Hyde personality disorders un-American foreigners display constantly…
… border politics be damned… America is a melting pot of social upheaval… where the rules are always changing depending on which culture gets their representative into the Congress at the federal and state levels…
…I was only raised and taught America has these values, but adulthood has proven childhood education was, in large part, a huge lie…
… the only honesty, it seems, is mathematics in form… no stories to tell that deviate… mistakes occur, but not because of numbers…
January 10, 2024 at 11:49 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
It’s not genocide bolithio, as judged by SoHum’s main dude and the liberals and right-wing/ conservative commenters. QED.
What’s next on the SoHum agenda? Maybe we could talk about Trump? Or the economy? Stay focused!
January 10, 2024 at 11:50 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Oh, and please lower your voice.
January 11, 2024 at 5:06 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Actual NYT Headline:
9 Israeli Soldiers Killed in a Single Day Underscoring War’s Cost
The Tweet…
This appalling @nytimes headline, which in an instant erases the 23,000 Palestinian dead in Gaza & the flattening of a metropolis as populous as South London, may win the Gold Medal 🏅 for most biased, insensitive and bigoted headline of the war, in a very, very crowded field.
https://x.com/dalrymplewill/status/1745275155343982681
January 11, 2024 at 7:15 am
Mitch
The actual headline is easy to find by googling on the text following Jon’s report of “Actual NYT Headline”:
Israel-Hamas War
9 Soldiers Killed in Single Day, Underscoring War’s Cost to Israel
I couldn’t quickly find out a way to add an image to a comment here, but the article was updated on 1/11, so it is (barely) conceivable that the headline was initially as Jon reports.
Personally, I’d consider it a firing offense if it was actually written as Jon’s shortened version indicates. But I think the more important lesson is how social media and personal laziness allow lies to spread rapidly, so that the truth rarely has a chance to catch up.
January 11, 2024 at 7:19 am
Mitch
And here is the text of the article, as it appeared at 7:17 AM 1/11/2024:
Nine Israeli soldiers were killed in Gaza on Monday in three separate incidents and at least eight others were seriously wounded, including an actor in the popular Netflix series “Fauda.”
It was a heavy toll for a small country where almost every fallen soldier’s life story is described in detail in news media reports, and where soldiers’ funerals are broadcast on television.
In the most deadly of Monday’s incidents, a truck full of explosives blew up in the Bureij area of central Gaza, during what Israeli authorities said was a military operation to destroy an underground rocket and explosives manufacturing facility. The blast killed six soldiers and injured at least eight others, including the “Fauda” actor Idan Amedi.
Although the exact cause of the explosion had not been determined by Tuesday evening, a preliminary investigation suggested that it was inadvertently caused by fire from an Israeli tank, said Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the chief spokesman for the Israeli military.
For safety reasons, most soldiers had been ordered to leave the site where a small crew of combat engineers was preparing the explosives, Admiral Hagari said, and a tank was stationed nearby to secure the area and provide cover. Then the tank identified what was thought to be a threat.
“The tank opened fire at the threat, and in a tragic outcome, struck an electricity pole nearby, knocking it over and igniting the explosives,” Admiral Hagari said.
According to The Times of Israel, the army was leading journalists on a tour of a Hamas rocket manufacturing plant not far from where the explosion occurred. A reporter with The Times of Israel said he heard the blast and saw an explosion burst through the air, capturing it on film.
The three other soldiers killed on Monday died in Khan Younis in southern Gaza, the army said, describing operations there as troops destroying dozens of tunnel shafts and underground “terrorist infrastructure.” One soldier was killed in fighting and two were killed by anti-tank fire, the army said.
Israel said its military was consolidating its hold on the region, but that heavy clashes ensued after dozens of Hamas gunmen emerged from underground tunnels as Israeli troops approached. The gunmen were met with gunfire and killed, the army said.
The army said its troops in Khan Younis had discovered “terrorist infrastructure” inside the Islamic University in Gaza, including caches of ammunition composed of AK-47 rifles and cartridges, as well as safes containing what it called “terror funds.” In searches of nearby areas, the military said it found storage facilities for weapons containing roughly 100 mortar shells, ready-to-use explosives, grenades, combat equipment and maps used by Hamas.
Gabby Sobelman contributed reporting.
— Roni Rabin reporting from Tel Aviv
January 11, 2024 at 7:33 am
Mitch
An attitude amongst the once-fringe far left seems to be that this war is happening because Israelis, or Jews, hate Palestinians. This is, as far as I’ve seen, absolutely false. As is the case with America, which is polluted by small bands of Nazis and KKK members, Israel is undoubtedly polluted by small bands of people who do not value the lives of Palestinians. But for the most part, Israelis do not want their children killed, and so will defend their country from attack, and due to the nature of what has been done to Gaza by Hamas, this involves a great many deaths of innocent Gazans.
It is the Gazan Palestinians’ misfortune to live in a territory whose government turned it in its entirety into a military asset that Israel needs to destroy for its defense. Reading that article, it looks as if the Israeli deaths were caused while attempting to dismantle a bomb and rocket factory, and while responding to gunmen who popped out of a tunnel, the sort built with the materials theoretically not available to Gaza except to satisfy civilian needs.
No country except Israel would be expected to leave a tunnel network in place in an enemy nation after it was used to launch a surprise assault murdering more than one thousand of its civilians and kidnapping hundreds. No warring party, to my knowledge, has used civilians in hospitals, schools, and residences as cover for military assets, as Hamas has done.
January 11, 2024 at 7:48 am
bolithio
“As is the case with America, which is polluted by small bands of Nazis and KKK members, Israel is undoubtedly polluted by small bands of people who do not value the lives of Palestinians.”
Yeh sure. The major difference with the US being Israel does virtually nothing to stop their “small” bands of KKK from killing, burning and humiliating people in the west bank. Also, the US has laws against discrimination, Israel has codified discrimination.
Over 100 Palestinians were killed via state and settler violence prior to 10/7 in 2023 alone. But unlike Israelis, who are some how given a pass to destroy the lives of millions of people in response to the hamas attack – People in Gaza or the west bank are not allowed to have a violent reaction to their lynching, killing, violent displacement and non-stop humiliation at the hands of their occupying force.
January 11, 2024 at 9:05 am
Mitch
While it’s not a completely appropriate comparison, the deaths of Palestinians in the West Bank can be compared with the rate of police killings in the United States, as both involve rule enforcement involving, potentially, violence. Of course, one involves professionally-trained armed people, while the other involves the IDF, an army drawn from the country’s general population. Here’s one number.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/06/us-police-killings-record-number-2022
January 11, 2024 at 9:56 am
Henchman Of Justice
Syria says Israel is involved in causing fights in it’s northwest region, along with US.
Yet another example of wasting USA tax collections in foreign culture civil wars… so that Syria won’t be “Islamic”…
…separation of church and state is a failure in America, so why should we believe separation even exists…anywhere🤷♂️
I support Syria’s position not to be culture cleansed by outsiders… not to become yet another dumping ground depot of Hebrew/Christian foreigners on their diaspora mission to be international despots… or Muslims being driven away from their occupied lands in Israel by the Jewish Gestapo, 3rd Reich types living inside Jewish bodies… history shows:
Jews originated after Judah was bequeathed land south of Jerusalem by his father Jakob… REICH ONE
Jews left their land ofJudea because of famine (not prime ag habitat), along with a small count of family cousins, uncles, etc… but hardly the whole extended family… then Jews (Judeans only) came back from Egypt whence they emigrated to during famine…
Jews came back to Judea, led by Moses to take jews back to the promised land… REICH TWO
Jews attacked cultures not worshiping a single diety named Yahweh… lost the battles, wars… problem was, jews had already been occupying land not their own outside of Judea… some of the cousin kingdoms took in their jew cousins from the south, but not all… as the other cousins born from their descedent slave mothers and aunts did not necessarily or solely practice hebrew religion… this is reality, fact… other religions were practiced north of Judea in the land of the Israelites…
Jews who occupied land north of Judea began a diaspora, as the other cousin kingdoms aligned against the Kingdom of Judea, this gave rise to Kingdom of Palestine… jews (judeans) left in several small waves when slave mother/aunt cousin kingdoms aligned at some point as non-hebrew kingdoms , Judea however was kept intact as a satellite client state when the rest of Israelite Kingdoms were destroyed… REICH THREE
[The Kingdom of Israel was destroyed around 720 BCE, when it was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire. While the Kingdom of Judah remained intact during this time, it became a client state of first the Neo-Assyrian Empire and then the Neo-Babylonian Empire.]
After more time, when the cousins in the north pushed out CTG, the Judeans were given permission by CTG to infiltrate Palestine yet again… likely because Cyrus was avenging his loss of power to the Palestinians who just beat his military campaign…
…then this begins the current day israelite territory fighting… one in which Jews (whom only originate from Judea) show their despot colors… long before Greeks and the next victims fought of jew attacks, that led to diaspora for jews up and around Palestine… into Eurasia, Europe…
… And we all should know by now how Europe did not like Hebrews, did not like anything about Jewish culture, except Poland Which had previously went on warring campaigns to take over as much of the lands just north of the former assyrian and babylonian Empires that it could in an effort to control what is now present day bits of Russia, chech republic, etc… essentially most of Europe…. Diaspora jews found a willing control mongor in Poland, so jews took root-hold as jew polaks…
…but years of mounting pressure led to conflicts, war, poland was lost… allied nations struck a deal to pawn-off polak jews back to the middle east… using para-military operations against palestinians… to force polak jews onto lands not their own…
…so today is a reflection of all the bad that crying wolf jews have exhibited over the centuries, when all jews had to do was admit that Judea is their only kingdom to control…
…jews need not attack their palestinian cousins for not practicing hebrew…
https://www.foxnews.com/world/slaughter-in-syria-assad-russia-take-advantage-war-in-gaza-most-violent-bombing-of-civilians
January 11, 2024 at 10:23 am
Anonymous
“Over 100 Palestinians were killed via state and settler violence prior to 10/7 in 2023 alone.”
So would that make the deliberate, organized murder of more than 10x as many Israelis, plus of course the organized gang rape, torture, and kidnapping of hundreds more, a wildly “disproportionate” response?
Or does the “disproportionate response” argument only apply to Jews, ahem I mean Israelis, when they’re the ones responding to the “lynching, killing, displacement and humiliation” of their citizens?
January 11, 2024 at 10:25 am
Henchman Of Justice
As if 23k palestinian deaths isn’t a cost
Actual NYT Headline:
9 Israeli Soldiers Killed in a Single Day Underscoring War’s Cost
January 11, 2024 at 10:31 am
Henchman Of Justice
Jews suffer from Stockholm Syndrome that’s been taught to them…
… It is why jews are trying to force palestinians into subservient client and satellite territories, but palestinians aren’t going for it…
… Jews really do live a life of do unto others as jews don’t want them to do unto you… It’s likely because Jews have been causing religious land fights for so many thousands of years now and other cultures are getting sick and tired of it…
January 11, 2024 at 10:32 am
Anonymous
“People in Gaza…are not allowed to have a violent reaction to their lynching, killing, violent displacement and non-stop humiliation at the hands of their occupying force.”
Israel pulled out of Gaza more than 15 years ago. Israel hasn’t been killing anyone in Gaza, except when responding to Hamas’ attacks.
That’s not to say that nobody in Gaza has been lynched, killed, displaced or humiliated. They certainly have…by Hamas, which has murdered hundreds of their political opponents, detained and tortured many more, shot people in the knees, and robbed the entire territory blind to build up their stores of weapons and rockets and their immense network of tunnels where their cowardly leaders hide, and in general ruled Gaza as the bloodthirty Islamic extremist terrorists that they are.
January 11, 2024 at 11:11 am
Eric Kirk
That’s not to say that nobody in Gaza has been lynched, killed, displaced or humiliated. They certainly have…by Hamas, which has murdered hundreds of their political opponents, detained and tortured many more, shot people in the knees, and robbed the entire territory blind to build up their stores of weapons and rockets and their immense network of tunnels where their cowardly leaders hide, and in general ruled Gaza as the bloodthirty Islamic extremist terrorists that they are.
In particular, I’m remembering a small group of people who protested Hamas early on in their reign, and they were arrested and I’ve never been clear as to their fate.
January 11, 2024 at 12:23 pm
Mitch
January 11, 2024 at 12:27 pm
bolithio
“Israel pulled out of Gaza more than 15 years ago. Israel hasn’t been killing anyone in Gaza, except when responding to Hamas’ attacks.”
Categorically false. 2,789 civilian deaths in Gaza alone between 2008 and 2023 (before October 7). This does not include the countless unnecessary and preventable deaths due to the blockade. You say its Hamas is fault – even though Israel is who backed them into power deliberately to divide the territories. Of course then there are the 1,300 civilians killed in the west bank during the same period where there is no Hamas.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
January 11, 2024 at 12:49 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
The screen shot is in the tweet I added. The source Will Dalrymple is reliable as a British (Scottish) historian. But then, Britain is a member of the non-US, non-Israel global community and may be anti-Semitic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dalrymple
January 11, 2024 at 12:50 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
Lies! Screaming, repugnant lies!
January 11, 2024 at 12:52 pm
Anonymous
“Categorically false”
>>>…except when responding to Hamas’ attacks. <<<
Categorically TRUE actually.
January 11, 2024 at 12:54 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
Even with …Cosr *to Israel* added. Is that much better? I KNOW there are Israelites that value human life and comparing 9 who happen to be Israeli to 23,000 is, well, mind numbing.
It’s why the draft is so important for America too. We should all have blood on the line if we want to go to war. Inhumanity doesn’t stop at borders.
January 11, 2024 at 12:57 pm
Anonymous
“in the west bank…where there is no Hamas”
Now THAT is an example of “categorically false.” Hamas most certainly has a presence in the West Bank (as do several other Palestinian terrorist groups). They just don’t hold absolute power there, as they did in Gaza.
January 11, 2024 at 1:07 pm
Mitch
Jon,
I’m sure no one has ever deleted some words from a headline and produced a graphic. There sure seems to be room there for “to Israel,” and a notable visual imbalance, but if that tweet is showing the real headline allowed by the NYT, I’m sure the Times will be heavily criticized for it, from people inside the Times as well as outsiders. I would condemn it. I’m very confident it’s not, but if I’m wrong, I apologize in advance.
January 11, 2024 at 1:16 pm
Anonymous
It’s actually a very good thing that Hamas has already lost thousands of their fighters in this war, while Israel has only lost a few hundred of theirs, and pretty impressive given that Hamas’s fighters spend most of their time hiding in tunnels and most dress as civilians when they do venture above ground.
Meanwhile it’s very sad that Hamas cares not one bit about Palestinian lives, and has wasted so many thousands of those lives, civilian and otherwise, while gaining nothing, big-picture, other than their own entirely predictable destruction.
But hey, some of them did get to gang rape a bunch of Jewish women, and torture, murder and kidnap a bunch of innocent Jews including elderly folks, kids and babies. So, was it worth it? To the sickos at the top of Hamas, sure, probably. To the average Palestinian in Gaza? I guess that’s for them to decide, but to me it seems like a very bad trade-off. Maybe in the future they should try NOT mass murdering, raping, torturing and kidnapping their neighbors.
January 11, 2024 at 1:17 pm
Anonymous
No one is afraid of the US anymore……
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-us-gave-the-houthis-a-final-warning-the-iran-backed-rebels-answered-with-their-biggest-ever-missile-and-drone-attack/ar-AA1mPkbc?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=83844b2fc9bf41c6fa713c2f142d9a9d&ei=21
January 11, 2024 at 1:20 pm
Mitch
Sure enough, the visual balance of the headline as displayed at the Times’ site makes it seem highly likely to me that words were deleted from the screenshot.
Regardless, the notable thing here is that that one tweet has been virally spread to more than a half million in a short period of time. The spread is due to the number of people whose preexisting attitudes enable them to view the headline and not go, “Wait, what? The New York Times, for all its flaws, wouldn’t do that.”
This is what wars now include, social media battles to produce populations which consume lies as fact. That may be more important than physical weaponry today, when various nations could destroy their enemies many times over without fearing an equivalent retaliatory strike, but are held back from doing so by fears of world reaction. Russia comes to mind, as would the United States were it led by trump.
January 11, 2024 at 1:32 pm
Anonymous
“comparing 9 who happen to be Israeli to 23,000 is, well, mind numbing.”
Which nobody is doing. Because that’s only one day of Israeli military losses and doesn’t include all those innocent civilians slaughtered, raped, tortured and kidnapped by Hamas on October 7th.
So of course it would make no sense to compare one day of Israeli military losses to three months of total Palestinian losses.
And of course Hamas, its supporters and their useful idiot allies never mention that thousands of those killed (8,000+ according to Israel) were Hamas fighters, and that none of the others would have died if Hamas didn’t start this war.
Nope, it’s only the useful idiots who would pretend that this headline somehow posits an equation with 9 Israeli soldiers on one side, and 23,000 innocent Palestinian civilians on the other. Mind-numbing indeed, but obviously some minds are already pretty numb.
January 11, 2024 at 2:29 pm
Mitch
I’ve emailed the Times, forwarding them your link and asking whether they can confirm that the headline never appeared in the way shown in that tweet.
I then went to Twitter to check William Dalrymple’s feed but I could not find the supposed posting. I confess that as an extremely rare user of Twitter, I just look through the post’s shown on somebody’s page, and there may be better ways to search. There were about twenty posts from 2017 through late 2023 showing, of which only one was “pinned.”
I did find this:
https://x.com/DalrympleWill/status/1712073716723789970
January 11, 2024 at 2:32 pm
Eric Kirk
Anonymous – we have no idea how many Hamas fighters have been killed. It could be thousands. Could be hundreds. Could be merely dozens. They have shelter whereas the rest of the population doesn’t.
January 11, 2024 at 2:35 pm
Mitch
One more thing which turned up during my search. Something posted today about the NYT and Gaza:
https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/01/11/new-york-times-corrects-widely-mocked-headline-that-exaggerated-gaza-death-toll/
January 11, 2024 at 2:38 pm
Mitch
Oh, and I just noticed what you can see for yourself if you scan back at the various postings. When I went to William Dalrymple’s twitter feed and copied from it, it shows as https://x.com/DalrympleWill…; note uppercase W.
your link has a lowercase w in will, so I assume someone created a false site to steal what for some will count as his credibility.
January 11, 2024 at 3:51 pm
Anonymous
Eric, Israel claims approx 8,000 Hamas fighters killed. I assume that’s inflated (just as I assume Hamas’ numbers for Gazans killed is inflated). But the idea that the number of Hamas deaths might only be in the dozens seems a little silly. It’s true there may be many dead in the tunnels that Israel can’t count, but some do pop out to attack and are killed, and Israel can count those.
What’s interesting is that Hamas’ non-verifiable numbers are widely quoted, and usually portrayed as the number of innocent civilians killed, as if no Hamas fighters are part of those numbers.
One thing is certain, and that’s that every Palestinian life lost in Gaza, Hamas fighters and civilians alike, are due to Hamas starting this war, and then cynically using Palestinian civilians as human shields.
January 11, 2024 at 4:03 pm
Anonymous
Not actually “funny,” at least not to me, but sadly a lot of truth in this. The selective outrage aimed at Israel is incredibly hypocritical.
January 11, 2024 at 4:34 pm
bolithio
On one hand they are hiding in tunnels where they cant be reached. On the other they are using “human shields”. On one hand hamas killings are unjustifiable. On the other hand killing 10,000 children is justifiable.
January 11, 2024 at 4:44 pm
Anonymous
Yes they hide in tunnels, and yes, they use the civilians as human shields. It’s not one hand and another hand, it’s two sides of the same cowardly terroristic hand.
But your need to defend and justify their murderous actions is duly noted, as is your remarkably poor reasoning,
January 11, 2024 at 4:52 pm
bolithio
“The selective outrage aimed at Israel is incredibly hypocritical.”
A classic talking point. Also totally stupid.
– If there was “selective outrage” – it doesn’t change the reason for the outrage or justify the actions of Israel.
– Unlike other conflict zones, they are not getting billions of dollars from the USA and using our weapons. Let alone at the level of destruction we have been witnessing.
– Are people not outraged at the Russia invasion? Currently, this is the only other nuclear armed super power fighting a asymmetrical war. Russia has killed 500 kids as result. You know Israel’s number. So yeh, ‘selective outrage’? Not a thing.
January 11, 2024 at 5:04 pm
Mitch
Hamas established a tunnel network whose size is still unknown but which is clearly large. Some estimates claim that there may be 500 miles of tunnels. Evidence is already available that they have tunnel access underneath hospitals and adjacent to schools, and this was commonly assumed even prior to 10/7.
In some areas, the tunnels may be too difficult to destroy by bombing from above, but this was Israel’s first approach.
Israel’s goal was to destroy as much of the network as possible while protecting its own soldiers lives by using a bombing campaign. Israel attempted to protect Gazan’s lives by explicitly notifying those in areas about to be bombed. I’ve never heard of any other military that has ever provided this sort of extensive notification, or any military which has hidden its command centers in hospitals and schools.
Other than bombing, there were no good alternatives. Now that Israel has forces on the ground in Gaza, they can now flood the tunnels, but that has the potential of seriously disrupting Gaza’s groundwater supplies. Other than that, Israel is forced to use approaches which risk soldiers lives by putting them in positions from which terrorists can pop up from unknown access points and kill them.
When your enemy builds such a network, and uses it to support the murder of a thousand of your citizens, and the kidnapping of hundreds, a government has a responsibility to protect its people going forward. Unfortunately, the nature of what Hamas constructed, and the way in which Hamas has prevented the movement of civilians, means a great deal of needless death and destruction for the civilians of Gaza.
To the extent that Hamas’ tunnels have survived the bombing campaign, Israel is now forced to risk its soldiers lives. If someone is so soulless that they want to praise Hamas’ engineers for their success, or blame those who are required to defend their populations from the demonstrated dangers of what Hamas created, they’ll do so and there is not a thing I or anyone else can do about that, beyond expressing my intense revulsion.
There is only one organization responsible for the leveling of Gaza, and it is not connected with Israel.
January 11, 2024 at 5:12 pm
Anonymous
Ukrainian soldiers didn’t invade Russia, murder 1,200+ people, torture and gang rape women, and kidnap hundreds of innocent Russians, then run and hide behind their civilians.
Hamas did do all these things.
Russia invaded Ukraine for absolutely no remotely justifiable reason.
Israel has a very good reason for going after Hamas.
So yeah, it’s quite a different situation.
The attempt to portray Israel’s actions as somehow being as bad or worse than Russia’s that is evidence of complete moral and/or intellectual bankruptcy.
January 11, 2024 at 5:33 pm
Anonymous
“Are people not outraged at the Russia invasion?”
Sure, plenty of people are, and rightly so. But you, not that I’ve seen, just a lot of blaming the US and NATO. So yeah, very selective and extremely misplaced outrage.
Russia started the war in Ukraine, by invading Ukraine in 2022.
Hamas started the war in Gaza, by invading Israel on October 7th.
I’m outraged by both.
January 11, 2024 at 6:53 pm
Anonymous
We’re you outraged when Russia took Crimea on Obama’s watch ?
January 12, 2024 at 3:36 am
Anonymous
Yes. And parts of the Donbas.
January 12, 2024 at 6:12 am
Anonymous
Looks like magoo is getting us in a third war….now Iran. BTW….if you file and owe additional taxes, please get that money in ASAP. There are a lot of countries depending on you.
January 12, 2024 at 10:39 am
bolithio
“But your need to defend and justify their murderous actions is duly noted, as is your remarkably poor reasoning,”
The only person defending and justifying murderous actions is you. Elements of the Hamas attack are war crimes. Elements of Israels response are war crimes. Both parties have been guilty of this since well beyond 10/7. If certain actions are war crimes – the law must be applied equally otherwise there is no point for laws.
The 10,000 children murdered by air strikes did not attack Israel. The 2 million people deprived of water, food, and fuel did not attack Israel. The hundreds of people murdered in the west bank following 10/7 did not attack Israel. The over 100 journalists who have been murdered did not attack Israel. The utter destruction of all elements of Gaza civil society, from schools, churches, factories, water treatment plants, wells, farms, health care facilities, and entire villages that have vaporized does not have any strategic purpose other than eradication of Palestinian life in Gaza.
Israel did not need to do all of the above to defeat Hamas. Their offensive could have been planned and executed in a manor that did not destroy all of Gaza, did not intentionally deprive millions of people of food and water, did not mass waste known civilian centers. To say otherwise is pure delusion.
The biggest threat to Hamas, or any radical group like them, remains: a cease fire and end of the horrific apartheid that has been inflicted on the entire population for 50+ years. Hamas would have no recruiting power if people were able to live with dignity. If people were not forced on a diet, if people were not killed every single year as the “lawn is mowed”, if there were not so many orphans with no future, no reason to live, there would be no force driving people to desperate, violent acts of resistance. The denial of a group of peoples ability to a free life, self determination and dignity is what drives people to violent, reactionary movements.
Your need to accuse me and other critics as “celebrating Hamas” or being racist, or what ever other strawman/ad homim stems from the fact there is no justification for the apartheid system, the conditions that Israel has created in Gaza and the west bank, or the undeniable terror and suffering they are inflicting on millions of people at this very moment.
January 12, 2024 at 10:54 am
Mitch
I’ve been waiting for a perfect or near-perfect example of confident idiocy, and here it is:
“Israel did not need to do all of the above to defeat Hamas. Their offensive could have been planned and executed in a manor that did not destroy all of Gaza, did not intentionally deprive millions of people of food and water, did not mass waste known civilian centers. To say otherwise is pure delusion.”
Note that what is missing is any “how.” Just “could have been,” followed by an assertion that to disagree with the unsupported statements is “pure delusion.” This is standard for the fringe left, which sees that there are problems associated with most necessary actions, and confidently and stupidly explains that the solution is to “solve the problems, fools.”
This might be called “whistling in the dark,” but whistling in the dark is sometimes done to give oneself courage, and here the person uttering the idiocy is encountering no danger and so need not summon courage. This should just be called “spouting while wearing a blindfold of one’s own design.”
January 12, 2024 at 11:23 am
Anonymous
Anti-terrorism expert General Bolithio should definitely offer his services to the world’s militaries. If only they realized how easy it really is, I’m sure they’d jump at the chance to put his brilliant insights into practice.
January 12, 2024 at 12:20 pm
Anonymous
Palestinian terrorists, and the Arab and Muslim dictatorships who arm and support them and share their goal of destroying Israel and replacing it with a fundamentalist Islamic dictatorship, have been attacking Israel and murdering Jews whenever and wherever they get a chance since the founding of the state of Israel, long before the occupation of the West Bank, or the occupation and later de-occupation of Gaza.
The simplistic notion that Palestinian terrorism aimed at murdering as many Jews as possible and destroying the state of Israel only exists because of Israel’s admittedly less-than-perfect responses to that terrorism is patently illogical and totally ahistorical.
The very things that Hamas apologists and their naive useful idiot allies point to as “causes” of Palestinian terrorism, such as the blockade of Gaza and walls and checkpoints between Israel and the West Bank, are in fact the *effects* of Palestinian terrorism, from which Israel has (imperfectly) attempted to defend against, and the “mowing the lawn” reference to Israeli strikes at Palestinian terrorists ignores the fact that these strikes have always been in response to “the grass” launching terrorist attacks and rockets at innocent Israeli citizens.
The alternative of persistently NOT attacking Israel with rockets and terrorist attacks remains completely untested, and the idea seems never to even occur to Hamas apologists and their naive useful idiot allies.
January 12, 2024 at 1:07 pm
Anonymous
Imagine if, when Israel pulled out of Gaza more than 15 years ago, the residents of Gaza had chosen to elect competent, moderate leaders who channeled the many billions in economic aid that have been funneled into the territory, into a myriad of productive endeavors, rather than an army of terrorists, a warren of military tunnels, and a massive stockpile of rockets and other weapons.
Imagine if instead of putting their efforts and resources into firing rockets indiscriminately at innocent Israeli citizens and preparing for the orgy of atrocities they carried out on October 7th, they had instead spent those years building up their civil society, improving their internal security, economy and democracy and proving that an autonomous Palestinian entity could and would be a good neighbor to Israel.
With no major threats coming from Gaza, no terrorist groups allowed to freely operate there (much less to rule the territory), there would have been no reason for Israeli strikes, Egypt would likely have allowed much greater access at their borders, and in time Israel would have had much less concern about weapons smuggling and thus the (obviously very incomplete) “blockade” would likely have been further eased and eventually lifted.
Meanwhile, Palestinians in the West Bank and peace-seeking Israelis alike, would have been able to point to Gaza as proof that given the opportunity to govern themselves and control their own territory, Palestinians would prove capable of suppressing the extremists among them, and focusing on actually making life better for Palestinians, while building trust with their Israeli neighbors. “Look, you pulled out all your military forces, and dismantled the ‘settlements,’ and…it worked!”
Instead, Gazans elected a terrorist group whose charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and which has used its time in power to do everything possible to demonstrate that given the opportunity to live peacefully side-by-side with Israel, they will instead choose to continue their campaign of murder and mayhem in pursuit of their goal of destroying the state of Israel, killing or driving out all the Jews, and replacing it with a brutally repressive fundamentalist Islamic dictatorship akin to those of their most ardent sponsors like Iran and Syria.
January 13, 2024 at 8:16 am
bolithio
Thanks for explaining your orientalist fantasy and why you support collective punishment.
January 13, 2024 at 8:47 am
Anonymous
Thanks for checking in from Nonsenseland with your meaningless drivel.
January 13, 2024 at 8:48 am
Mitch
Below, I’ve copied an important article from The Guardian. I went from reading this to the transcript of St. Goodman’s interview with Baruchin, and I noticed something interesting in both this article and the interview conducted by Goodman; neither include descriptions of the pre-October-7th posts Baruchin made, which led him to be dismissed as a teacher from one school system.
They may have been completely reasonable, as I believe his after October 7th posts were, as described. Or they may not have been.
But it strikes me that even when Baruchin brought them up, Goodman did not ask the most obvious question. Perhaps the answer would have been inconvenient. Perhaps the questions were asked and answered, but (gasp) edited out “due to time constraints.” Or perhaps not.
Assuming the police had no reasonable expectation of finding weaponry at Baruchin’s home, this is a disgraceful overreach, and is a sign that, as in the United States, all is not well in the world of Israeli policing.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths
January 13, 2024 at 9:37 am
Henchman Of Justice
Jonboi might be conflicted knowing Turkey joined the fascist USA allied NATO group of misfits… but then Erdogan took over and now Turkey has calls to be thrown out as a Russia defender…
…then, with Palestine, Turkish government switches away from historic neutrality to start military campaigns in Iraq and Syria to support Turkey’s invasive actions to attack other cultures… because Turkey has SUPERPOWER SYNDROME on-the-mind…
Turkey and Nazi Israelites are attempting to overthrow the region into absolute bitter chaos beyond anything the world has seen in 75+ years…
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-sultans-ghost-erdogan-and-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict/#:~:text=The%20Turkish%20public%20has%20always,its%20future%20great%20power%20position.
January 13, 2024 at 9:56 am
Henchman Of Justice
In USA, more than 25% of eligible voters quit voting long ago… the remainder voters are lost and need to find themselves…
January 13, 2024 at 10:10 am
Henchman Of Justice
If USA was a neutral State, and the borders were closed, Americans would not be fighting each other over other cultures’ problems… ya’ll know this to be fact!
January 15, 2024 at 4:52 am
Anonymous
Yep….magoo has really put the fear of God in them…..
https://www.aol.com/news/yemen-houthi-rebels-fire-missile-024444213.html