The last plane flew out. Several hundred Americans remain in the country, some of them by choice. About 120,000 Afghans were flown out in a logistically miraculous operation. 13 soldiers died to make that happen.
Many supported the invasion to chase Al Qaeda out (they took refuge in Pakistan). But the “mission” went on, and on, and on, and on.
Can we finally accept as a nation that we have no right to play God with other societies? Shouldn’t we have learned that lesson from the last two-decades war? Can we pare down the military industrial complex?
More thoughts later.
Sohum Parlance II 
82 comments
Comments feed for this article
August 30, 2021 at 2:12 pm
Mitch
I plan on sending President Biden a thank you note for getting us out of there. We should have been out the day after President Obama eliminated Osama bin Laden, ten years ago.
August 30, 2021 at 2:52 pm
Just Watchin
We have 50,000 troops and military personnel in Germany. Why ?
August 30, 2021 at 5:42 pm
Anonymous
Trumpublicans tripping over each other with mixed messages right now.
On the one hand they’re anxious to portray Biden as shamelessly abandoned all our Afghan allies, but at the same time they want to portray him as letting anyone and everyone into the U.S. willy-nilly. Also, he’s letting too many in as a ploy to “change our country” so that Democrats will “never lose another election again.”
August 30, 2021 at 9:57 pm
Henchman Of Justice
Was written again and again and again…USA needs to go “isolationist”…
August 30, 2021 at 9:58 pm
Henchman Of Justice
We have 50,000 troops and military personnel in Germany. Why ? ~JW
so each soldier can grab a brick and build that wall…? LOL…
August 31, 2021 at 5:25 am
DataMinor
David Rothkopf/TheAtlantic, 8/30: Biden Deserves Credit, Not Blame, for Afghanistan
Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks.
“[Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators] . . all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.”
No, he wasn’t.
August 31, 2021 at 5:27 am
Just Watchin
PitiPAC….it’s not “mixed messages, it’s multiple messages. And Scooter didn’t just abandon Afghan allies, he abandoned Americans, just so he could crow that he met his own self imposed deadline.
August 31, 2021 at 5:38 am
Just Watchin
https://www.foxnews.com/media/critics-biden-abc-interview-stay-in-afghanistan-americans?fbclid=IwAR3OQaFBFjfId1rqNHyX_6XXWCjjcBv5D_lGK2624Vbkz-Regs12IKobuN4
August 31, 2021 at 7:06 am
Just Watchin
From an American citizen on CNN…..“They left us to whom? To those people who — they were always wanting to kill us?” Sara said. “And now I’m by myself here with 37 people? This is my fear. That if America could not help me when they were on the ground, how will they help me now when no one is here? That’s my question.”
August 31, 2021 at 7:41 am
John
Shameful we left Americans who wanted to get out behind, maybe 200 of them. Maybe if we beg hard enough the Taliban will let most of them out ?
In our (political) panic to get out we also left Afghanis who fought with us behind and even left some of our war dogs behind. There was a photo yesterday of one of them hanged by the Taliban from one of our Apache Helicopters. We abandoned even military equipment to equip a small army.
August 31, 2021 at 7:53 am
Henchman Of Justice
Ok, what about the Americans who chose to believe in politicians over troops or never had common sense to NOT believe politicians (well, The President) would ever stab them in the back…noooooooo, helllllllllllll noooooooo…
…so there is that…imho, Americans who chose to locate to Afghanistan are,
….DUMB, and fall under the category of likely to lose the “survival of the fittest” marathon…
August 31, 2021 at 7:58 am
Henchman Of Justice
As far as military equipment left behind…
…if people don’t know by now that it was a conspiracy to begin with between our government and the military industrial complex to continue fighting these battles over geography and other ideologies in order to spread better military equipment around the world so that military equipment makers have a reason to make more powerful military equipment to take around the world to repeat the same circular illogic for peace…
… some of the commenters on this site are fucking clueless…
August 31, 2021 at 8:00 am
Henchman Of Justice
… It Is by Design American military equipment was left behind and that decision was made before even 1 American soldier ever step their first foot on Afghan soil…
August 31, 2021 at 9:05 am
Eric Kirk
John – I’m not finding that photo anywhere, not even on right wing media. Can you please provide a link?
August 31, 2021 at 9:14 am
Eric Kirk
It looks like that may be an urban legend.
August 31, 2021 at 9:17 am
Eric Kirk
Yeah, looks like it was another bogus rumor on which some media went off half-cocked.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/pentagon-debunks-reports-claiming-us-155300960.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJ7JrVGVfdZpOrlkuskMa5lH9UuMsSk2NlKOob_i7ASmUop-eld-FgL4hCQE3uc1ZiOUIHuU22rm55nXnEMXsBvXhnQZiqV6fzmcCwa2V8efOitPXASVTryTlfg0j9TWbQH3tceNsr3NpCUoT0xWBSL9HugzaUAM-MzesI2CJxoZ
August 31, 2021 at 9:22 am
Henchman Of Justice
So no military dogs abandoned…cool, guess humans are lower on the totem pole…the humans actually abandoned who desired getting out…
August 31, 2021 at 10:08 am
Just Watchin
Eric…..your link debunks the stories that service dogs were left behind. This looks to be the video in question….
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/shocking-video-shows-taliban-hanging-man-from-us-black-hawk-helicopter-over-kandahar.html
August 31, 2021 at 10:14 am
Henchman Of Justice
USA, Russia, China…the Big 3 SUPERPOWERS providing military social services to the weak and poor, disadvantaged nations…
…got to increase supplies globally to increase demand for more supplies…a little economic gaffe for a more peaceful world…
August 31, 2021 at 10:32 am
Eric Kirk
According to Newsweek, it’s actually believed to be a Taliban soldier suspended. From the video it does not appear that the person is being hanged by his neck, but it’s really hard to tell.
https://www.newsweek.com/video-taliban-member-hanging-blackhawk-helicopter-viewed-2m-times-1624449
Of course the right wing media is reporting the man as being an interpreter, without citing any evidence or facts to support the conclusion.
August 31, 2021 at 10:54 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
“I plan on sending President Biden a thank you note for getting us out of there.”
Don’t forget to send one to Trump as well. No way in hell we are out of Afghanistan without Trump’s (right wing) populist contrarianism within the Republican Party.
Leaving Afghanistan,id prompted and carried out by a Democratic Administration would simply have been too great of political liability.
August 31, 2021 at 11:00 am
Mitch
While trump indeed surrendered, he did not get our troops out. Biden did.
August 31, 2021 at 11:02 am
Mitch
FWIW: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/opinion/trump-taliban-deal-diplomacy.html
August 31, 2021 at 11:26 am
Eric Kirk
I do indeed credit Trump for putting an end to the thing.
There were actually a couple of things I appreciated about his foreign policy, including his restraint with Iran after the missile attack which followed the assassination of Soleimani (which I did not support).
Trump was an authoritarian who pandered to hatred and intolerance, but he did have the sense to understand that war is bad for most business.
August 31, 2021 at 11:49 am
Henchman Of Justice
Trump was an authoritarian who pandered to hatred and intolerance, but he did have the sense to understand that war is bad for most business.~ EK
EK means that Trump hates bad people and their moronic ideologies, not good people…and in juxtapose, hatred for bad people is not beholden to any side of any aisle…it is natural to hate bad things, bad people…
August 31, 2021 at 12:23 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
The article explains how dishonorable the treaty with the Taliban was, something few on the conservative side of the aisle want to bring up. It doesn’t explain how the Washington foreign policy establishment planned on extracting US Troops in a sufficiently honorable way.
It’s OK to admit it, Trump was the only one with the political power structure that allowed him to surrender. No Democrat outside of Sanders could have done the surrendering themselves. Not even Warren.
And yes, Biden gets high marks from me for following through despite the obvious political consequences.
August 31, 2021 at 12:24 pm
Mitch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan#Casualties_by_month_and_year
Two thousand, three hundred and sixty one US military casualties in the war we conducted in Afghanistan. Thirteen under Biden, due to the airport gate suicide bombing during the US withdrawal. Sixty under trump.
August 31, 2021 at 12:27 pm
Mitch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)
More than 170,000 people killed in total. Remember, we entered Afghanistan to get Osama bin Laden, and President Obama got him a decade ago.
August 31, 2021 at 12:40 pm
Mitch
Meanwhile, more than five thousand Americans and more than a hundred thousand people airlifted out of the country in a couple of weeks. Yet, the spinners, many of whom are the fools who got us into the war, will spin. I am grateful Joe Biden is President and Commander in Chief.
August 31, 2021 at 12:43 pm
Just Watchin
Bin laden was killed in May of 2011, and yet Obama stayed in Afghanistan for another 5 and 1/2 years. Hmmmm…..
August 31, 2021 at 12:45 pm
Eric Kirk
Yes, he should have ended the war. Biden has a bit more political courage.
August 31, 2021 at 1:05 pm
John
Good news about the Military Dogs but we still left 200 Americans behind and some of the Afghanis who fought with us.
August 31, 2021 at 1:21 pm
Mitch
> Biden has a bit more political courage.
Biden is all white. Obama had to worry about being assassinated by our internal traitors.
August 31, 2021 at 2:14 pm
Just Watchin
Must have been getting close to nappy time….
August 31, 2021 at 2:23 pm
Anonymous
I think Jon makes a in noting that Trump shaking up the GOP conventional wisdom on foreign military adventures certainly made it easier for Biden to withdraw from Afghanistan.
I think it’s an exaggeration to say there’s no chance a Democrat would ever have withdrawn. But obviously Trump getting the surrender part out of the way made it a lot easier.
Of course now Trump is saying we should either re-invade or “bomb the hell out of them” if they don’t reimburse us for the cost of equipment we left behind. Which makes zero sense, but that’s hardly surprising.
In any event, credit to Trump for being willing to face up to the reality and negotiating a surrender…demerits to Trump for being too cowardly to actually follow through with the withdrawal and face the consequences.
August 31, 2021 at 2:36 pm
Anonymous
Sorry, that should have read “I think Jon makes a good point in noting…”
August 31, 2021 at 2:49 pm
Eric Kirk
John – for perspective, when the last American combat troops left Vietnam there were still over 7000 American civilians left in the country.
August 31, 2021 at 3:35 pm
Just Watchin
Eric….it’s not like they were abandoned like in Afghanistan. This from a USA TODAY article….”As the last American commander in Vietnam left, a force of 7,200 American civilians employed by the U.S. Department of Defense stayed behind to aid the South Vietnamese in their continuing battle with the Communist government in the North.”
But nice try…….
August 31, 2021 at 4:18 pm
Henchman Of Justice
Two thousand, three hundred and sixty one US military casualties in the war we conducted in Afghanistan. Thirteen under Biden, due to the airport gate suicide bombing during the US withdrawal. Sixty under trump.~ Mitch
Biden has a 3 year, 4 month credit on the death account…not fair!
August 31, 2021 at 4:29 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually, many of them felt they were abandoned JW, even as they tried to help the South Vietnamese government stay in power. You’ve pulled one cryptic sentence which greatly oversimplifies the mess at the time. There were also American civilians, some of whom remained in the country until 1976 by the way. Read Michael Lindt’s book. Or Jeff Record’s.
August 31, 2021 at 4:57 pm
Henchman Of Justice
Felt they were versus were… boy, that is a doozy… might need a family feud game show to hash out that difference…
September 1, 2021 at 4:43 am
Just Watchin
ATTABOY SCOOTER…….
https://www.aol.com/news/polls-americans-back-end-afghanistan-225600858.html
September 1, 2021 at 5:13 am
Just Watchin
The Clown in Chief says he takes responsibility, then proceeds to blame everyone else…..https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/31/biden-blame-afghanistan-508204
September 1, 2021 at 5:55 am
Just Watchin
Lindt’s book on Vietnam is described as a “reinterpretation”. In other words, one guy’s opinion. No thanks…..
September 1, 2021 at 6:30 am
Eric Kirk
I don’t even know what “reinterpretation” in this context means.
September 1, 2021 at 6:55 am
Just Watchin
It’s actually part of the title of Lind’s book. Did you not read it??
September 1, 2021 at 7:04 am
Eric Kirk
It’s been awhile, but I still don’t know what that means.
The book was basically a liberal argument justifying the war. He made some interesting points. Didn’t agree with them, but they were interesting.
September 1, 2021 at 7:05 am
Henchman Of Justice
WSJ scorching Biden when it should be scorching the voters who put Biden into office… but of course it won’t do that to its base… and the only reason why they’re scorching Biden is because that media Outlet knows he has dementia and is fucking brain dead, so it becomes okay at that point…
September 1, 2021 at 7:06 am
Henchman Of Justice
AOC scorching Biden for the good ole boy appointment of near high crimes perp Rahm Emanuel being appointed as Japan ambassador…
September 1, 2021 at 7:09 am
Henchman Of Justice
Biden getting scorched for closing Canadian border… this Is actually good for the country, but now if Prez, Dementia can reciprocate that at the southern border, then he won’t appear so confused…
September 1, 2021 at 7:21 am
Anonymous
Lindt was a right winger who wrote for the National Review before turning liberal in the 1990s. He was student of Buckley’s. This book sounds like a relapse.
September 1, 2021 at 8:12 am
Eric Kirk
It’s not that simple. There has always been an aspirational aspect of progressive ideologies which fuels “gunboat liberalism.” It’s not an inconsistency, but a different emphasis.
September 1, 2021 at 9:26 am
Just Watchin
The big question is…..will they be able to vote by mail….
https://www.aol.com/news/29-sacramento-students-stuck-afghanistan-120202872.html
September 1, 2021 at 9:46 am
Eric Kirk
I have to wonder about the parents who kept their children there that long. If I was an American in Afghanistan, I would have made plans to leave the minute the peace deal was signed. I mean, yes, we have to get them out, but WTF?
September 1, 2021 at 11:16 am
Just Watchin
Wow….just wow……
https://www.reuters.com/world/excerpts-call-between-joe-biden-ashraf-ghani-july-23-2021-08-31/
September 1, 2021 at 11:57 am
Eric Kirk
I skimmed it and will read it more carefully later, but other than calling President Ghani a brilliant and honorable man, what’s the criticism exactly?
September 1, 2021 at 12:09 pm
Just Watchin
Well….asking a foreign leader to lie, for starters…..
September 1, 2021 at 12:20 pm
Just Watchin
I just finished the article. Ghani told biden that the US needed to give his military a pay raise, to “rally everybody together”. Now that’s ballsy…..
September 1, 2021 at 1:00 pm
Anonymous
At least Just Trollin’ is now pretending to care about the small number of Americans “left behind,” rather than pretending to care about Afghan civilians, who died by the tens of thousands during the occupation without a whisper of concern from the hypocritical troll who pretends to live in Florida.
September 1, 2021 at 1:19 pm
Just Watchin
I moved PitiPAC. I now live in Georgia…..
September 1, 2021 at 1:36 pm
Eric Kirk
Good move! That may save your life, although Georgia isn’t faring all that well either.
September 1, 2021 at 1:51 pm
Just Watchin
Gonna move to New Jersey next week. Goin back to Cherry Hill. Gotta stay mobile. Given PitiPAC’s obsession with where I live, I’m concerned she might be stalking me. I’m triggered…..
September 1, 2021 at 2:42 pm
Anonymous
Stopped pretending to care about Afghan civilians, and stopped pretending to live in Florida, all in the same week! Bravo, well done!
Henceforth he shall be known as Just Trollin, the pathetic troll who used to pretend to live in Florida.
September 1, 2021 at 2:58 pm
Anonymous
Meanwhile in Florida…
Oops, DeSantis’ pathetic attempt to hide his Epic Failure on Covid with an accounting trick is….crumbling:
September 1, 2021 at 3:12 pm
Anonymous
Actual average daily deaths reported in Florida in the past 7 days: 262 per day.
Average daily deaths shown after DeSantis’ sleazy accounting trick is used to hide more than four fifths of them: 46 per day.
Number of states with higher per-capita hospitalization and death rates than Florida over the last two weeks: Zero.
September 1, 2021 at 3:18 pm
Just Watchin
Lol……this is from the article…”Deaths by date of death curve is the most accurate you can get,” Salemi said. “You know exactly when people died, you know how to construct the curve and exactly when we were experiencing surges in terms of deaths.”
Btw…..4 day moving average if Florida…….5 !
September 1, 2021 at 3:26 pm
Mitch
At the beginning of July, FL’s COVID 7-day average death rate was 25-30. At the end of August it was around 260. Heckuva job.
September 1, 2021 at 3:32 pm
Anonymous
And so once again we face the question: Is Just Trollin’ actually too dense to realize that with this method, “most accurate” only applies to the data shown weeks later when all the deaths for that day are finally in, while the leading edge of the graph — the numbers JT keeps clinging to — is always wildly inaccurate?
Or is he just pretending he doesn’t understand, in other words, lying?
I’m 99% sure he’s just lying, as usual.
But will admit there’s a 1% chance he really is that dumb.
It’s one or the other.
September 1, 2021 at 3:40 pm
Just Watchin
Please provide the link to that data mitchie
September 1, 2021 at 3:55 pm
Anonymous
Florida has the highest per-capita hospitalizations AND deaths in the country over the past two weeks. Currently the daily average is 16,117 hospitalizations and 262.7 deaths per day in Florida.
Highest case counts per capita:
Taylor County — 29% vaccinated
Hardee County — 31% vaccinated
Suwanee County — 29% vaccinted
All overwhelmingly Trumpublican counties.
Suicide by Trump Cultism. Sad.
September 1, 2021 at 4:09 pm
Just Watchin
The New York Times ! LMFAO !!
September 1, 2021 at 4:31 pm
Anonymous
Thousands a week dying in Florida, sociopath “laughs his fucking ass off.”
Because of course.
Not that it matters, but the NYT data comes from the Florida Dept. of Health. They just don’t apply DeSantis’ accounting trick to it.
September 1, 2021 at 4:44 pm
Eric Kirk
FYI, the NY Times covid tracker team won the Philip Meyers Journalism award.
But I guess they’re just part of the “liberal media” cabal.
https://www.nytco.com/press/i-r-e-honors-for-coronavirus-tracking-project/
September 1, 2021 at 4:45 pm
Just Watchin
Glad to see you are on board with the data from the Florida Dept. Of Health PitiPAC. Maybe you’re not as ignorant as I thought….
http://www.floridahealth.gov/newsroom/2021/08/083121-fdoh-sets-the-record-straight-false-data-claims-miami-herald.pr.html
September 1, 2021 at 4:53 pm
Anonymous
I read that immediately after I read the Miami Herald article. Nowhere in there do they address that the way they’re reporting now creates a fake “downslope” in the graph and gives the false impression of low/falling deaths even when deaths are high and/or rising.
The rest of the quote, which you cut off immediately after the part you liked:
Seriously, are you still trying to pretend you don’t understand this, or are you really this statistically illiterate?
Florida is free to present their numbers to the CDC in a misleading way, but neither the NYT nor anyone else is obligated to buy into this “statistical sleight-of-hand.”
September 1, 2021 at 5:04 pm
Anonymous
I guess it’s probably a good sign that Just Trollin’ is so pathetically desperate to try to pretend away hundreds of deaths a day in an effort to obfuscate DeSantis’ epic failure.
Means he realizes the political risk caused by DeSantis’ spectacularly failed policies…which are basically the same failed policies that have led to similar levels of public health disaster in Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, etc.
September 1, 2021 at 5:17 pm
Anonymous
Also left out by the lying troll who used to pretend he lived in Florida, and simply ignored by the Florida DOH “rebuttal” statement (which thus failed to rebut the main point of the article):
“If you chart deaths by Florida’s new method, based on date of death, it will generally appear — even during a spike like the present — that deaths are on a recent downslope. That’s because it takes time for deaths to be evaluated and death certificates processed. When those deaths finally are tallied, they are assigned to the actual date of death — creating a spike where there once existed a downslope and moving the downslope forward in time.”
Again, using this method means the “new deaths” numbers are always wildly inaccurate — namely they are always a massive undercount.
I’ve been following this since they first made the change. The leading edge of the “downslope” is always rock-bottom, as it only includes the cases that are both brand new *and* were reported immediately.
But as time goes on and as cases get added several weeks later, the “spike” behind the downslope keeps growing. The spike gets more accurate, but the leading edge of the downslope never comes anywhere near reflecting current deaths.
So it gives an accurate picture of what the situation was a few weeks ago, but a totally inaccurate picture of what’s happening now — the part DeSantis, and by extension the lying troll who used to pretend to live in Florida — are most desperate to conceal.
September 1, 2021 at 5:24 pm
Anonymous
Of course there’s a graph that makes this very obvious and clear, in the same article from which Just Trollin’ cherry-picked his misleading quote. It even comes before that quote, which means JT had to scroll past the graph to get there.
Which is why I continue to think there’s a 99% chance JT is just lying, and only a 1% chance he’s actually to dimwitted to comprehend the problem.
Of course DeSantis’ ploy is to try to fool those who actually are dimwitted enough to fall for his accounting trick, and JT’s job as mindless troll only concerned with toeing the party line is to pretend he can’t see the trick.
September 1, 2021 at 5:31 pm
Henchman Of Justice
Google voice to text is so f***** up Beyond repair just read the freaking s*** and see the capital letters that shouldn’t be capital letters… what people need to learn is how to hate liberals because it’s liberals that are controlling all the worst aspects of the world…
September 1, 2021 at 5:38 pm
Henchman Of Justice
“When you have big surges in deaths, the deaths by date reported will always show an increase while deaths by date occurred will go down,” Salemi said.
WRONG, deaths however they are reported, are accurate if the methodology is consistent… but what Florida governor was getting pissed off about was the fact that those reporting the death we’re delaying their reporting so that they could show a higher Spike whenever they decided they wanted to instead of just reporting the death on the date that the death occurred…
September 1, 2021 at 7:13 pm
Henchman Of Justice
https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-chris-hayes-biden-ghani-phone-call-afghan-withdrawal
Rachel Maddow’s twin sister posing as a man…the glasses are not fooling anyone…
September 2, 2021 at 3:52 am
Just Watchin
Looks like being confronted by the Dept. Of Health truth really got PitiPAC’s panties in a bunch. Settle down gurlie.!!