Ryan Burns reports that he’ll be running for Mayor of Eureka next year.
He’s run two election campaigns for city council and won both times, actually trouncing Rex Bohn the last time around despite the plastering of Bohn signs all over the city which had some Kerrigan supporters demoralized until election day – which is when I learned that the frequency of signs in Eureka aren’t a good measure of support given that more conservative landlords on the main arteries seem willing to impose their politics on their tenants by placing signs on the lawns.
Kerrigan won each time by walking every neighborhood in the city, and I hope he repeats that strategy, because we don’t just need progressive wins. We need a discussion.
It bodes well not only for local progressive politics. Kerrigan’s campaign could represent the last gasp of any efforts to prevent Humboldt County from defaulting to a retirement community.
Now we need some candidates for city council. And we need to talk district election reform.
Photo comes from the NCJ, and they got it from Facebook.
Addendum: He was interviewed on KHUM today.
Sohum Parlance II 
263 comments
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December 13, 2013 at 9:25 am
Questions aplenty
Other than good hair what does this kid have in the way of qualifications? Not that it matters to most of you.
December 13, 2013 at 9:26 am
Eric Kirk
How about eight years on the city council? That must count for something.
December 13, 2013 at 9:44 am
Anonymous
Does he have any work experience outside politics?
December 13, 2013 at 9:45 am
Native Elf
Best qualification – he’s not Chet Albin.
December 13, 2013 at 9:56 am
Fred Mangels
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but has he ever had a job in the private sector?
December 13, 2013 at 9:57 am
Fred Mangels
Then again, I don’t think Frank Jager has had one, either.
December 13, 2013 at 10:04 am
Joe Blow
Qualifications? To start with, how about an established and provable life’s experience of honesty, integrity, decency, self-worth and a capacity to think beyond their personal beliefs? Someone that possesses a tried and tested moral and ethical foundation – not lawless nor corrupt, but principled and rooted. Someone not feckless nor juvenile. Then for good measure, make sure he’s actually a mature adult man or woman capable and able to be one.
December 13, 2013 at 10:06 am
Eric Kirk
I don’t know for certain, but I believe he’s had private sector work before, during, and certainly after his time in office. But we’ll learn all about that as the campaign moves forward.
December 13, 2013 at 10:32 am
liberal jon
Hooray! Fred, I’m going to guess you will be voting against Chris this November, just a guess. We’ll see if I’m right. I’ll be voting for him. Why? I’ll try to explain over the next 11 months.
December 13, 2013 at 10:34 am
Joe Blow
What value is “private sector work” or for that matter 8 years on the City Council as far as worthwhile qualifications for hold office? Years in the City Council could indicate a compromised individual. But, then if that’s what everyone wants…
December 13, 2013 at 10:40 am
liberal jon
Elf – I’m with you on Chet, but chances are Mr Albin won’t be running for Major, yet. He’ll probably be running for 5th Ward Councilperson as that is the position he will be filling soon due to Councilman’s Lance Madsen’s having to step down for health reasons.
If Mayor Jager decides to run again, it should be an incredibly interesting race with very important and clear political dividing lines drawn. I obviously think this is winnable for Chris. 2014 just became even more interesting and important for Humboldt’s future.
December 13, 2013 at 11:25 am
LoCO Guest
Didn’t he work at or own a campaign strategy group or some such thing?
And work as a paid person on a democratic campaign in another state?
December 13, 2013 at 11:30 am
Eric Kirk
He did have a consulting business for awhile. I don’t know if he was paid, but he did go to Iowa to work for John Edwards – probably not something he wants to advertise so much at this point. But I think he took a break from politics for awhile and got into some other things as I vaguely remember from a conversation when I met him on the street. But he’ll have his biography and resume trotted out when everyone’s interested, so we don’ have to depend on my hazy memory.
December 13, 2013 at 12:46 pm
suzy blah blah
-oh how nice, sitting by the fire, but the hair is a jfk ripoff, and the subliminal peace sign crotch message is way too obvious dude.
December 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm
Eric Kirk
Okay, the sleeze campaign has already started. I’ve just blocked an anonymous post with unsourced claims about Chris. Definitely somebody feels threatened!
December 13, 2013 at 2:07 pm
Dave Kirby
He did work for Estelle the first time she ran. He authored a hit piece on Roger Rodoni that was published under my name . Johanna called me one morning to voice her displeasure at the letter. By coincidence Roger was killed that same afternoon.
December 13, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Fred Mangels
He authored a hit piece on Roger Rodoni that was published under my name .
Apologies if I don’t recognize your name, but why would your name be on something Kerrigan wrote?
December 13, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Liberal Jon
ugh. Chris did support Supervisor Fennel.
http://redwoodreality.blogspot.com/2008/02/estelle-kicks-off-her-campaign_27.html
And Kim Sallaway is mentioned who was quick to denounce EK’s verbiage in a recent thread. Just fyi for newbies like me.
This should make for more interesting HCDCC meetings in the near future assuming Chris will be joining again.
I have a question now for LoCO’s coverage.
December 13, 2013 at 2:34 pm
Joe Blow
Eric says:”I’ve just blocked an anonymous post with unsourced claims about Chris.” – “You know it when YOU see it,” HUH! Eric? Think it will help if I change my online name to Chris?
December 13, 2013 at 2:45 pm
suzy blah blah
-i doubt if this society will ever be able to climb so high and see this clear, but the only totally fair way to handle politics is for the candidates in public elections to run anonymously. Of course the winner would have to reveal their identity to take office, but only after the votes are counted.
December 13, 2013 at 3:12 pm
suzy blah blah
-congrats babbleonjon, you are improving your batting percentage, and i can see that you’re hot on the trail of the bad team’s quarterback. Picking up that clue that Kim snapped Estelle’s picture is key, i think you should next investigate what other likely suspects he has photographed. If you can only find a picture of Estelle dressed in camo –THAT would knock ‘er outa the park.
December 13, 2013 at 3:18 pm
LoCO Guest
Did Estelle Fennell know about and approve the letter hi jinx between Chris K and David Kirby?
December 13, 2013 at 3:26 pm
suzy blah blah
-suzy couldn’t find any pics of Estelle in camo jon, but this may help your cause. It’s the leader of the group that flevitan and bolithio were obsessing over yesterday. Photo by, you guessed it, Kim Salloway:
December 13, 2013 at 3:34 pm
suzy blah blah
-while searching i did find this. It’s a photo of Lee Harvey Oswald wearing camo. And here’s the kicker, i saw Estelle in Murish’s once and she had a jacket on that was almost the same identical pattern. Did suzy say pattern? –follow the dots.
December 13, 2013 at 3:34 pm
suzy blah blah
December 13, 2013 at 3:41 pm
babbleon Jon
When I’m not bringing the ball up the field, eluding team camo’s players with my fancy footwork*, I do need to point out the backgrounds and interests of other’s on team camo. You of course are an important player with very particular and unmalleable views which of course I now realize. (just like me btw – but of course I wear the business suit or working-class suit that befits a moronic clone instead of the camo)
Kim S’s “Thieves have never abided by laws.” is very reminiscent of the right’s refrain on guns – “when guns are outlawed blah blah”. I also found it surprising that someone I had never heard from before came in so soon and so strong on something I just assumed we would all agree on. So her mention in that article was very noticeable to me.
Yes, I share Erik’s concern on that story, and the contents of that thread, notably your contributions, made me if not more concerned, more saddened.
* (self-deprecating humor, I don’t find this to be true literally as I was not an adept player or figuratively as you do a great job sbb of dicing up my comments.)
December 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Eric Kirk
Dave, some of us on Clif’s side of that first election interpreted Chris’s involvement in her campaign as backing from Richard Salzman, who had split from Local Solutions a couple of years earlier. Local Solutions was backing Clif and so we saw this as yet another progressive turf rivalry which had split the cause in the Eureka city council elections two years earlier. At the time everybody assumed that Estelle’s politics were consistent with the progressive camp, but some of her debate question responses provided clues that maybe she wasn’t going to fill that mold.
I believe he had Clif’s ear in the last election, but I don’t know how active his role was.
It would be great if he draws some young people into Eureka politics. Maybe even some young people to run for city council and help Linda Atkins out for her last two years.
December 13, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Eric Kirk
Whoa! Just went to my “dashboard” and learned that this thread is drawing a big string of hits. Eureka city politics – maybe they just woke up!
December 13, 2013 at 4:43 pm
Dave Kirby
Loco….Estelle was not in that loop. Chris called me and read the letter over the phone and asked if I was comfortable with the language. I said it was O.K. with me. As I was Estelle’s campaign manager he asked if he could use my name and I said yes. The fact is if Roger Rodoni had lived he would still be the supervisor. Clif garnered less than 40% of the vote and Johanna ran a strong second on a write in vote which is almost unheard of in politics.
December 13, 2013 at 4:46 pm
Jon for Chris Kerrigan 2014
Again, ugh.
http://samoasoftball.blogspot.com/2008/08/local-solutions-and-hcdcc-in-cahoots.html
So much lost potential from infighting on the left. It exists to this day which is why when JB says this “Without agreement they starve.” It’s very true.
I don’t know the dynamics of the HCDCC vote in 2008. That was pre-HumCPR if I’m doing my math right (2012-3=2009) so Estelle may not have had or expressed her right-wing property rights views. I hope Chris can be extremely clear on this and the nature of the missteps on the County GPU. I would imagine he will be under pressure from Matthew Owen and Supervisor Bass to share endorsements and come back to a more conservative HCDCC. Again, all this will be very interesting and consequential for Eureka’s and Humboldt’s political future for 2014 and …
I don’t know Chris and I look forward to meeting him, but I think he represents the one prominent local-lifer (ie young old-guard) who could or would have been so proudly progressive in his politics that he would have supported the progressive rhetoric of the (pre-slimeball) presidential candidate John Edwards.
From this corner of the internet if I could given any advice to Chris and other progressives, and liberals and non-Palin and/or HumCPR liking Democrats – Can’t we all just get along? Seriously, we’ve dropped the ball in 2010 and 2012 (with the notable exception of Linda Atkins) We have to lick our wounds and listen to the wise words of Rodney King. (importantly while electing actual progressive candidates – Richard Marks – I’m looking at you right now)
December 13, 2013 at 5:08 pm
suzy blah blah
-jon, as you should know i detest our trashy culture because of it’s influence on society. Not politics, culture has the biggest influence on where we’re going. Like John Lennon said long ago, “the Beatles are more popular than Jesus”. And they were more popular than whoever was president back then too. Today, with all this electronic “writing” pouring out into the culture more and more each day, it needs to be directed. And so I feel the need to reply to what others say, i don’t just like to let them slide. Suzy has an answer.
When i was a kid having an answer was called talking back. “A child should been seen and not heard” etc. The more they said i was talking back the more i acquired a self esteem problem. Until i grew up and realized, i shouldn’t keep these thoughts to myself —i should share them with the world! And i started to do this. Sometimes others thought i was Bogarting the mic. But i knew i was right. Yep, not fair, but right.
You see, suzy’s not a player in your fantasy about teams and sports, i’m parodying that in case you still don’t get it. I am here to play, but not as one of your strawmen on one of your fantasy teams. And so you see i am not under those rules of yours. And don’t have to reply as one of your inventions. That doesn’t apply to me. In fact suzy is not under any rules, or colors, or whatever you may dream up. I don’t play by the rules, period. Get it?
And don’t try to tell me that’s unfair. There’s too much fairness in our trashy culture. People try to fall over themselves to be culturally correct. There’s way too much democracy in the culture, there’s no doubt about it, that’s why we have such a dumbed down populous. It’s unnatural. It’s out of balance. Treating everyone as an equal begins when you get to school. And it continues to be emphasized throughout life. It’s one of the major lies you are told very early on in order that you be a good little easily controlled clone like everyone else.
So, jon, good culture is not about equality or democracy. In culture there is a natural aristocracy that needs to be recognized and expressed. A few people have talent, everybody doesn’t, only a few people are smart, not all, sorry. This idea of democracy is poison as far as culture is concerned. A few people are writers, but most are readers. That’s all.
December 13, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Blue Team waterboy
“Care again with Kerrigan”
vs.
“Meister Jager— He knows where all the dead bodies are”
December 13, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Eric Kirk
Again, Local Solutions was backing Clif. Richard Salzman was, or seemed to be, backing Estelle.
I disagree Dave. There was enormous dissatisfaction with Roger, and I think in the three way race Clif would have won with the 40 percent. If it had been between Clif and Roger, Clif would have taken Sohum by a storm, and won in Fortuna proper where he was and is very well liked.
But, we’ll never know.
Chris’s campaign could reunite and reinvigorate Eureka’s progressives, coming off a couple of close but nice wins.
December 13, 2013 at 5:39 pm
Fred Mangels
Someone wrote, “I hope Chris can be extremely clear on this and the nature of the missteps on the County GPU.
Once again dumbshit can’t keep on topic. The Eureka Mayor’s office has next to nothing to do with the county’s General Plan Update.
A hint, Jon: Keep in mind the old saying- It’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you’re a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
December 13, 2013 at 6:41 pm
LoCO Guest
“Apologies if I don’t recognize your name, but why would your name be on something Kerrigan wrote?” Dave Kirby AND Chris Kerrigan got some splainin to do. Something is fishy.
December 13, 2013 at 6:52 pm
Jon for Chris Kerrigan 2014
“In fact suzy is not under any rules, or colors, or whatever you may dream up.”
but you are – that’s my point. They aren’t my conjuring, I’m simply trying to find a way to describe them to you and I realize I’m doing a ham-fisted job. There are ideas behind the irrelevant colors and teams nonsense I go on about. Ideas that are reflected in many ways including our nation’s political parties.
“It’s unnatural. It’s out of balance. Treating everyone as an equal begins when you get to school. And it continues to be emphasized throughout life. It’s one of the major lies you are told very early on in order that you be a good little easily controlled clone like everyone else.” I’m sorry, this is itself another talking point from the right (exhibit X) The right hate, hate, hates participation trophies and craves children to experience loss as a life lesson in success and failure.
“In culture there is a natural aristocracy that needs to be recognized and expressed.” EXACTLY! (exhibit y) (sorry!) An extremely conservative notion – almost the definition of conservatism as I understand it via Thom Hartmann who often brings up Edmund Burke. Burke’s wiki page has this
“Burke was a leading sceptic with respect to democracy. While admitting that theoretically in some cases it might be desirable, he insisted a democratic government in Britain in his day would not only be inept but also oppressive. He opposed democracy for three basic reasons. First, government required a degree of intelligence and breadth of knowledge of the sort that was very uncommon among the common people. Second, he thought that common people had dangerous and angry passions that could be easily aroused by demagogues if they had the vote; he feared the authoritarian impulses that could be empowered by these passions would undermine cherished traditions and established religion, leading to violence and confiscation of property. Third, Burke warned that democracy would tyrannise unpopular minorities who needed the protection of the upper classes.”
I fundamentally disagree – but that doesn’t mean I’m right and you are wrong – or my ideas are good and your’s are bad. This is one of our fundamental disagreements. It’s pretty standard. And I do apologize for the repetition of the sports analogy, but their are basic ideological differences that are extremely complex, but out of necessity break down to two political parties that have and have had any chance to change the county, the country, the world.
“i should share them with the world!” You should and you do a great job imho (no snark), but I would add these bits of advice – be honest, be honorable, be kind, work hard and be awesome.* If you do that, your thoughts will have more purchase and in the end, more effectiveness. Guns and force are very persuasive, but kindness and love can be even more persuasive. That’s my opinion, and I’m sure we might disagree.
“So, jon, good culture is not about equality or democracy. In culture there is a natural aristocracy that needs to be recognized and expressed. A few people have talent, everybody doesn’t, only a few people are smart, not all, sorry.”
Interesting you use “smart”. I disagree and I thought you would too (ie heart v mind). In a strong democracy, people will find their intelligence and their associated role. Most of the time that will have to be involved with money somehow – but not always. Often their passion will overlap with their employment, but not always – maybe not even often. Many believe, including myself that our country has decided, that we will do our very best to make sure that everyone will have an equal say. Not just men, not just whites, not just landowners, not just the successful, all of us. Other’s disagree for the exact reasons you bring up – thing is, they have learned they can’t say that out loud and win elections.
Anyway sbb – thanks for the candid comment.
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_BtmV4JRSc
December 13, 2013 at 7:32 pm
Liberal Jon
Awe, thanks FM. I must have hit a nerve as the sweary words have come out to play.
This HCDCC holds a wide variety of people and ideas right now. Everyone from Republicans that can no longer tolerate the Republican Party to Liberal Libertarians with extremely conservative ideas on property rights. The GPU is a clear demarcation of our county’s priorities as defined by those who believe that “protecting natural resources” full stop are worthwhile.
While I’m very concerned about Eureka issues, and I look forward to both Chris and Frank’s idea’s, I think Chris’ opinions on the HCDCC will be interesting and potentially influential to the direction of the HCDCC. His previous support for Supervisor Fennel is a concern given how right-wing (ie pro-private interests) she has demonstrated herself to be, especially on the point of adding the language “honoring landowners” to the Guiding Principles. Chris’ endorsement or lack of endorsement for Supervisor Bass (as she will be the one running in 2014, not Supervisor Fennel) and visa versa will be a significant waypoint on the course of Democratic politics in Humboldt.
Which, if you haven’t noticed, people are beating down doors to join – even Conservative and Tea Party liken’ people like Chet Albiin (D since July 2012) and smooth talking DA candidates like Arnie Klein (D since July 2013). So where the candidates stand on each other starts to matter. Especially when Chris Kerrigan reappears with his strong progressive credentials and his strong family ties and network in HumCo. Something that is lacking in the current crop of progressives I’m sad to say – including me.
So Fred, btw, when are you joining the Dems? Common! Everybody is doing it. If a Sarah Palin fan can, I see no reason why a Ron Paul fan can’t. At least with Ron Paul, we would agree on most of his foreign policy.
December 13, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Anonymous
After Jager’s appointment of Chet Albin, and following his earlier appointment of Melinda Ciarabellini, now 2/5ths of the current city council will be appointed, not elected, to their positions. And Newman was only elected with a plurality, not a majority. So of the current City Council, only Marion Brady and Linda Atkins were actually elected by a majority of those who voted.
December 13, 2013 at 8:28 pm
Joe Blow
What’s agreeing and disagreeing got to do with anything substantive?
jon totally disregarded your advise Suzy – He’s totally clueless about individuality.
December 14, 2013 at 2:23 am
suzy blah blah
-those are minor league arguments jon. Another easy win for suzy–ding!
December 14, 2013 at 10:44 am
Dave Kirby
E….First of all it would have been a head to head contest between Rodoni and Clif if Roger had lived. In the 2008 June primary Roger defeated Clif by a handful of votes having been dead for over a month. Roger had more rural support than you give him credit for. His repeated vote against accepting C.A.M.P money had endeared him to many.
December 14, 2013 at 11:11 am
Anonymous
Wrong, 817pm. Melinda was originally appointed, but ran and won last election. Unopposed btw.
December 14, 2013 at 12:40 pm
Joe Blow
Democracy working at it’s best.
[December 13, 2013 at 8:17 pm – Anonymous:
“After Jager’s appointment of Chet Albin, and following his earlier appointment of Melinda Ciarabellini, now 2/5ths of the current city council will be appointed, not elected, to their positions. And Newman was only elected with a plurality, not a majority. So of the current City Council, only Marion Brady and Linda Atkins were actually elected by a majority of those who voted.”]
How do you plan on overcoming that obstacle, Eric? With the likes of a Chris Kerrigan? They’ve already stacked the deck with their City Manager and Police Chief.
December 14, 2013 at 1:45 pm
suzy blah blah
jon totally disregarded your advise Suzy – He’s totally clueless about
individuality.
-he doesn’t understand individuality because he fails to be an individual himself. But he won’t accept this failure, he projects it onto others and sees it as a failure of the things that he doesn’t like in the world. Then he hates and attacks those projections. It’s an old story.
December 14, 2013 at 2:21 pm
Oh No! Its Mr. Bill
Multiple choice- One Answer
a) Trees
b) Cannabis/EGO
c) Wind Turbines
d) none of the above, forward on to Death…
December 14, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Just Watchin
Jon Yalcinkaya is a proven liar, and he attaches his name to a candidate. Run as fast as you can.
December 14, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Anonymous
Well, this is interesting. It looks like the first three issues Eureka’s newly-appointed city councilmember, Chet Albin will get to vote on, are:
#1 following Arcata’s lead on an excess electricity usage tax (aimed at indoor residential growers),
#2 following Arcata’s lead on a ban on single use plastic bags at grocery stores, and
#3 spending up to half a million dollars on a food waste composting program.
http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_24723754/eureka-city-council-vote-5th-ward-appointment-excessive
I’m guessing they’ll move forward with #1. Not so sure about #2 and #3.
December 14, 2013 at 2:43 pm
Joe Blow
So, a viable qualification for office would be the quality and character of one’s associates and apologists.
“…a proven liar, and he attaches his name to a candidate. Run as fast as you can.”
December 14, 2013 at 2:56 pm
Joe Blow
Have you noticed, Suzy, that there are very few legitimate individuals around? The Good Citizen Project employed and enforced upon this country through the education system since WWII has almost obliterated that quality from American Society. In fact, legitimate individuals find themselves to be a living pariah. Even so, legitimate individuals are the only people that know and experience true freedom.
December 14, 2013 at 3:00 pm
Anonymous
Just Watchin said: “Jon Yalcinkaya is a proven liar”
I don’t remember seeing that. What did he allegedly “lie” about, and where is this proof you speak of?
December 14, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Proven Liar Jon
For those that care, I do prefer to keep my actual last name, which JW did get right, out of the comment zone. Thank you for your consideration.
btw, anon here is where my lyitude was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, finally, to my eternal shame *hangs head* *
*(sarcasm of course) – but what can you do with trolls and concern trolls? A: nothing. Just don’t let them get you down and try not to let them curtail what you have to say. If you do, the trolls win. Or at least that seems like something wise GWB might say on the subject.
December 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm
Anonymous
So, picking up on an earlier point, between the current council and mayor, only Jager, Brady, and Atkins actually won a majority of the votes cast in an election (Ciarabellini and Albin were appointed, Newman won by a plurality in a 3-way vote).
Given that Eureka voters vote for city council members on an at-large basis, not just for the city council member in their own ward, that implies that some of the same people who voted for Jager and Brady must have also voted for Atkins.
I think it’s a pretty safe bet that Kerrigan will be able to garner the votes of most of those who voted for Atkins and also voted for the opponents of Jager and Brady in the last election. And it seems unlikely that Kerrigan will win very many votes among those who voted for Atkins’ opponent in the last election. So among those voters who voted in the last election, the ones who seem most up for grabs would be those “crossover voters” who voted for Atkins last time around, but at the same time also voted for Jager and Brady the last time around.
Of course there’s also the potential to register new voters, and to turn out more of the voters who skipped the last election. But Kerrigan is no fool, so he’s sure to realize that if he wants to win the mayoral race, he probably can’t afford to cede those (presumably somewhat middle-of-the-road) “crossover voters” to his opponent. So it’ll be interesting to see how he tries to woo those voters, while at the same time reassuring his base that he’s not moving too far toward the middle of the road. Because he needs his base to do more than just vote for him, he needs them to help him mine for new voters and infrequent voters.
So I suspect what we’ll see is a two-pronged approach, where Kerrigan will look to activate his base and try to increase voter turnout, on the basis of his position on issues like increasing Eureka’s minimum wage, while at the same time selling himself to more middle-of-the-road “crossover voters” on the basis of being a younger, more optimistic, more forward-looking, more charismatic leader than Jager.
It seems like that last part shouldn’t be too much of a stretch, given that Jager has about as much charisma as your average doorknob. 😉
December 14, 2013 at 3:53 pm
suzy blah blah
legitimate individuals find themselves to be a living pariah
-here’s jon’s “vision” of what you’ll run up against if you don’t take the blue pill like he did: Notice the equality 😉
December 14, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Joe Blow
Anonymous blandly says: “I don’t remember seeing that. What did he allegedly “lie” about, and where is this proof you speak of?”
I’d probably conclude from that statement that this particular “Anonymous” mostly only reads jon’s posts. From jon’s point of view or verbose opinion he believe he does not lie, he only makes assumptions. Which are self-defined worthless opinions. His source of power and value comes from getting you to either overtly or covertly agree with him. Which is his sole reason for existence. I’d have to say, after reading jon’s many, many verbose comments, this particular Anonymous is either blind or brain dead.
December 14, 2013 at 4:25 pm
suzy blah blah
-suzy lies too sometimes, but at least i’m being honest about it. Opinions? fuckinaye! Judgments? You better believe it, dude. Assumptions? damn right.
Do you agree with them? I don’t care. Will you buy the book when it comes out? Of course you will because the publisher will advertise it to your color coded demography and you won’t have any choice.
December 14, 2013 at 4:35 pm
Joe Blow
I’d say that qualifies you as a prime choice political candidate, Suzy. What office are running for or chasing after? Eureka City Council? Honest candidates seem hard to come by these days.
December 14, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Just Watchin
Lyin Jon Yalcinkaya poses as an “Anonymous”, then figures that no one remembers his lies. LMAO!!
December 14, 2013 at 5:03 pm
Just Watchin
And btw jonboy…..it was on the other thread where you pined for that Daniel Mintz guy as an “anonymous”
December 14, 2013 at 5:04 pm
Anonymous
Oh I see, you made an assumption, and declared it “proof.” Thanks for clarifying.
December 14, 2013 at 5:11 pm
suzy blah blah
-i’m running on the chameleon ticket, Joe. I plan to steal the election.
December 14, 2013 at 5:21 pm
Anonymous
Would that be Karma chameleon, sbb?
December 14, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Joe Blow
Eric Kirk says, as if this is some sort of badge of honor: “Ryan Burns reports that he’ll be running for Mayor of Eureka next year.”
Had a group of decent, responsible community oriented people gotten together and persuaded this guy, Chris Kerrigan, to run for this elected position, I might consider him and his candidacy something of merit. This way, it’s just another compromised political hack begging for agreement – votes.
You’d probably do better than the status quo, Suzy.
December 14, 2013 at 7:44 pm
Anonymous
So a narcissist, a hypocrite, and a blowhard walk into a bar. And the bartender says…”Hi Joe.”
December 14, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Anonymous
“Blah for Humboldt 2014!”
Forest Queen, Chief Legal Advisor
Joe Blow, Director of Communications
December 14, 2013 at 9:24 pm
queenoftheforrest
. . . not for all of the king’s horses and all of the king’s men, they couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again
December 14, 2013 at 9:42 pm
Eureka Booster
Liberal Jon lies. He is not interested in hearing Frank Jaeger or even Chris Kerrigan ideas on anything.
One is a Democrat and one is a Republican and that alone will determine Jon’s vote.
December 15, 2013 at 5:43 am
Lyin' liberal Jon
Awe, Eureka Booster, I notice your non-partisan comment in the other thread and was trying to think of a way to respond thoughtfully, but now I see that isn’t necessary.
It’s not that clear cut is it? Or else why would I be against Supervisor Bass? I vote for policies. Policies that consider the immediate and the long term. I don’t believe we are in a continual battle to cut, cut, cut, we do have a wonderful city (or county) that is worth boosting civically, culturally, etc. kudos to you for that.
The non-partisan argument is an effective one, but it is often insincere – especially by those who use it as their main argument. I think your use of JW’s epithet that I acquired ironically, but tellingly, when JW was trying to hide his mistake tells me a great deal.
And btw, to put money, the one thing whose value that we all by necessity agree on down here, on the line. I’ll donate $100 (once gainfully employed) or 40 hours of my time to the volunteer organization of your choice if anyone can find an instance of me using “remand”. I still don’t know the meaning of remand so couldn’t have used it except inappropriately by an iOS autocorrect and I don’t know where the # is without looking so I would never unconsciously use that in a list. So I’ll put money on the line on this if anyone cares to do the work. It’s actually very easy, just go to each thread and hit control f and to search for ” remand”.
Or you could continue repeating a very effective debating technique, one that the empty and counterproductive ideas of the right demands. I still don’t mind you all calling me a liar, it tells me a great deal about you as you are trying to describe me.
December 15, 2013 at 5:59 am
Lyin' liberal Jon
Oops, I removed one of the tells that the writer wasn’t me but forgot to remove the explanation, it’s early, give me a break. I am pretty sure I would never use the # in numbered lists, but I don’t know if I want to stake 40 hours on it. Even for a good cause.
Also, for those of you who might not follow every thread like the rest of us ( the nerve!) the item in question was an anonymous writer which JW and friends gleefully attributed to me just as I was saying I was stepping back. (Which I still am sbb, yesterday’s comment not withstanding). It wasn’t me, but JW said it was and now apparently can’t admit he is wrong, so instead he has to double and triple down on the rhetoric including the use of my last name which he knows I’d prefer to keep out of these discussions.
JW, just noticed I was speaking about you in the annoying 3rd person. Apologies. Hi JW!
December 15, 2013 at 8:42 am
Mitch
Off topic, but fun quiz:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/1221/Are-you-smarter-than-a-Fox-News-viewer-How-about-a-CNN-viewer-Take-our-quiz-to-find-out
December 15, 2013 at 9:36 am
suzy blah blah
@ Anonymous 5:21 pm
-communicating with Jon would be easy if his colors were like my dream –red, gold and green. But suzy’s without conviction and doesn’t know. Jon said blogging is an addiction, he had to go. But every day is like survival, jon’s just another blogger, not my rival. But he’ll find out in the end that suzy is good at selling a contradiction. Karma karma karma
December 15, 2013 at 10:33 am
queenoftheforrest
‘When Democracy trumps liberty, the seeds of tyranny are sewn.” Jefferson
AUthority derived through the mass meeting or any other form of “direct” expression, results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic –negating property rights. Attitude toward policies, labeled law, is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, or impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences; results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent and anarchy –which is where the awakened ones are now. Discussing policy politics and politicians is yesterday’s out-dated ideas. It ain’t working, so let’s keep doing it?
suzy @2:43 – “The only fair way to handle politics is for public elections to run anonymously.” Now there’s an idea whose time has come. No fantasy labels for the ignorant masses to cast their uninformed beliefs on. Simplify. Anonymous #1, Anonymous #2, etc. Questions to the would-be contestants: What is your mission statement? What vision do you hold that will be a positive forward step for the community as a whole? How do you plan to implement this? And a time frame to accomplish it. Whoever gets the position has one term in office –less if she or he can’t meet the vision mark that they set for themselves.
Please. A few basic principles before we assume government activity is advisable:
1) Monopolies (government being a prime example) lead to higher prices and poorer service.
2) The free market’s price system is consistently directing resources that the desires of the consumers are served in a least-cost way in terms of opportunities foregone.
3) Government, by contrast, cannot be “run like a business.”
4) Without the profit-and-loss test, a government agency has no idea what to produce, in what quantities, in what location, using what methods. Their every decision is arbitrary.
In other words, when it comes to government provisions of anything, we have good reason to expect poor quality, high prices, and arbitrary, wasteful resource allocation.
The market is the arena of voluntary interactions between individuals, and deserves the benefit of the doubt over the State, and is why we ought not assume the State is indispensable.
1) The State acquires its revenue by aggression against peaceful individuals.
2) The education system, which governments have come to dominate, encourages the people to consider the States theft, labeled taxation, as morally legitimate, and the world of voluntary exchange morally suspect.
3) The government is dominated by concentrated interests that lobby for special benefits at the expense of the general public; while success to the private sector comes only by pleasing the general public.
4) Governments teach their subjects to wave flags and sing songs in their honor, thereby contributing to the idea that resisting its extortion is treason.
People may not understand how law, which they assume must be provided in a top down fashion, could emerge without the State.
December 15, 2013 at 11:08 am
Mitch
Carl S(a)gan, 1996:
http://www.upworthy.com/a-science-icon-died-17-years-ago-in-his-last-interview-he-made-a-warning-that-gives-me-goosebumps-5?c=fea
December 15, 2013 at 11:25 am
suzy blah blah
-well said forest, thanks for bringing us back to reality.
December 15, 2013 at 11:37 am
Joe Blow
Fred Hints.
“A hint, Jon (in all his semi-anonymous incarnations): Keep in mind the old saying- It’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you’re a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Sometimes Forest Queen outdoes herself.
Forest Queen quotes: “‘When Democracy trumps liberty, the seeds of tyranny are sewn.’ Jefferson” — and says: “People may not understand how law, which they assume must be provided in a top down fashion, could emerge without the State.”
So, what’s the solution, Forest Queen? How does law emerge?
December 15, 2013 at 11:51 am
suzy blah blah
AUthority derived through the mass meeting or any other form of “direct” expression, results in mobocracy … Governments teach their subjects to wave flags and sing songs in their honor
-from an early age the individual contents are replaced by the mass idea which allows response without personal responsibility.
When Democracy trumps liberty, the seeds of tyranny are sewn
-ie, when the mass trumps the individual.
December 15, 2013 at 11:59 am
Joe Blow
A good example of what you say, Suzy, “-ie, when the mass trumps the individual” is expressed and enforced right here on this blog. Which I say are the origins of such a Jeffersonian condition, demagogic tyranny.
December 15, 2013 at 12:05 pm
queenoftheforrest
Joe,
“How does law emerge?” Not from Fiction that’s for sure.
From the grass roots -we the people, of course. South Carolina recently came together and said “No” to GMO. Alaska and Hawaii said nay, nay, to the Patriot Act and Homeland Security when they were passed around. Five states won’t grant any authority to the U.N.s Agenda 21.
http://consciouslifenews.com/nullify-nsa-every-other-tyrannical-government-agency/1168696/
December 15, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Joe Blow
Suzy, this goes to the heart of my question to Forest Queen, “-from an early age the individual contents are replaced by the mass idea which allows response without personal responsibility.”
How is this condition of juvenile justification overcome? You see what happens here when we try to hold liars personally responsible for their lies and false accusations.
December 15, 2013 at 12:16 pm
Joe Blow
Suzy’s assessment of the “grass roots” “-from an early age the individual contents are replaced by the mass idea which allows response without personal responsibility.” is what government and their 1% rulers are capitalizing on right now to enforce the tyranny. Look at how blase everyone is over Snowden’s reports. It seems to me the “grass roots” needs to find some “leaders” that meet predetermined standards and qualifications as viable individuals first.
December 15, 2013 at 12:45 pm
liberal jon
Following Mitch!’s lead, here is more Sunday reading… a new article* from Mother Jones on, ugh, the potential for a genetic basis of team red vs team blue? If they only had been following Sohum threads they might have added “Libertarian” or “Weed Inc.” to their final sentence? I don’t know. (I got 8 out of 10 on the test btw missing the GM and Afghanistan questions which in retrospect I understand – actually I think I got the Chamber of Commerce one wrong too, but I accidentally answered it correctly so 7/10 – but I now agree with that answer too)
*
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/12/genetics-twins-politics-religion
December 15, 2013 at 1:48 pm
queenoftheforrest
There is nothing more manipuable than geniusness that is not streetwise. We’re past focusing on the knots . .. unraveling is the focus for now.
A government without the consent of the governed, is not government.
Nullify the tyrannical government agencies:
The Calif. Coastal Commission with its $19 million budget (and this is a low incoming year of “funds”) knows NOTHING about the last 60 years of “Fracking” in 23 wells (illegally “permitted” by the FN Feds) off of the coast of California!!! How is that even possible??
There’s a Bill going through the Legislature now that would grant authority to the CCC to impose fines (Judicial Branch). In 1987 in Nollan v the Calif. Coastal Commission, the Supreme Court ruled that a regulation by the CCC was a “Taking” of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. I don’t think that the people have any idea just how insane and obscene the “Taking” is of the many, many, many, agencies that spun-off of the Federal Coastal Zone Management Act of 1972: The Calif. Coastal Commission, The Calif. Coastal Zone Conservation Commission, the Calif. Environmental Quality Control Act, the Office of the Coastal Zone Management, Certified Local Coastal Program, the Calif. Dept. of Conservation, the Coastal Act of 1976, the Calif. State Assn. of Counties, Coastal Counties Regional Assn., the CSAC Institutite for Excellence in County Government, the CSAC Finance Corp., and the list goes on.
Fracking, An Inconvenient Truth:
December 15, 2013 at 1:58 pm
suzy blah blah
…from an early age the individual contents are replaced by the mass idea which allows response without personal responsibility.”
How is this condition of juvenile justification overcome?
-by turning away from the ignorant masses, embracing chaos, and individuating. One person at a time.
“If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away.”
Thoreau
December 15, 2013 at 2:54 pm
queenoftheforrest
The World Bank
Circulate this far and wide:
December 15, 2013 at 5:51 pm
suzy blah blah
-JW, how many points is Vegas giving on the next red and blue game? Two to one? Or more than two? I looked at film from the recent threads and there was a sequence where Jon Smith intercepted a forward pass. He then set a screen for Smith who handed it off to Smith. Then Smith took a shot but he didn’t make it or Smith would’ve been credited with the assist. But Smith got his own rebound … but then Smith took the ball away from Smith and then Smith traveled. Then Smith tried to throw a curve ball but JW picked it off and suzy kicked through the gold posts even though i was double teamed by Smith and Smith.
I’m gonna call this broker guy who is said to be working for Weed Inc. See where he thinks the money’s going.
December 15, 2013 at 6:40 pm
liberal jon
I agree with qotf’s concern about fracking. So, is the solution then to starve government which is in cahoots with the corporations, the system will fail and the will no longer be a chain of production large enough to maintain industrial scale fracking equipment and/or the demand for fossil fuels would have slowed to a crawl because of the lack of production of automobiles etc? I’ll provide an alternative solution in the previous thread.
December 16, 2013 at 4:25 am
Jane
Just a few reminders. Never get in the way of the SoHum underground’s favored candidate it is pretty clear she is going to face a hard challenge the next election. If these guys are jumping all over it already I’m assuming maybe Chris isn’t as fond of Estelle as the limited, questionable, background provided would suggest. But that is my quick-dried opinion. Maybe there is a little dirt behind that history which may come forth eventually. Not that this thread isn’t dirt laden all ready.
The straw man argument always sucks Jon but it means you are a threat if they all are making you the bale of straw to jump on… so you must be doing something right. It appears to be more important to get you than Chris at the moment. I find that interesting.
I’ll start on a spreadsheet of voting history so we have some tangible history to go on. That is helpful as long as we have all candidates with a voting history of some sort. It’s that or we switch over to popular items like the better polo shirt or designer attire to elect our candidates.
*One other note–Marian may be elected but there has been some debate about what party ideology she truly represented to get elected. Just sayin’.
December 16, 2013 at 5:26 am
Liberal Jon
Jane! Yes that’s public knowledge. The HCDCC will be following up on the by-law that says thou shall not endorse against a HCDCC candidate in its January meeting. Marian is quite clearly amoung the three as is Melinda for their public endorsements of Fullerton. The by laws are clear for elected members, which is why Supervisor Bass did not publicly support John as she stated in the last meeting (but the implication was of course that she would have endorsed him if she could have). The by laws are not as clear for associate members – we’ll see.
Let us know about that spreadsheet. Scribd is an easy way to post documents to the interwebs if you are not familiar or if you don’t have another way.
I’ll be busy today, but I’m really curious about the specific policy answer to halt fracking. It goes to the heart of my concern about regional planning. Isn’t it clear that we are part of the problem – all of us – with our outsized energy use. Somewhat unintuitively city dwellers can have a tiny carbon footprint. This is not to say that rural shouldn’t be, it’s only to say that we need to start encouraging development in town to start lessen and even quite possibly zero out our fossil fuel needs.
We do live in a capitalist society which is a good thing if we have a public sector that can help save capitalism from itself. We are part of the problem on fracking, are we not?
December 16, 2013 at 8:25 am
queenoftheforrest
Jane,
The psyop works this way: label all criminal machinations deigned to make the rich richer and the poor poorer “capitalism.” The objective? Increase the power of government and its’ allied corporations to control the means of production and the distribution of goods and services.
Do you recognize that the persons you speak of are extorting the wealth and value of the people here?
You’re laggin’ Jane . . .From conspiracy to anarchy.
Autarchy – rule of self by the self; the act of self-ruling.
The refusal to recognize the legitimacy of the existing political institutions and its embrace of pre-figurative politics is anarchistic in nature. The ideas around working together, horizontal organization, and voluntary cooperation are all central to anarchist thought. Jesus was an anarchist.
There can be no freedom in an Administration @System@.
Government is not civilization. It’s slavery and the State is its firing squad.
Is it any wonder why the people are losing their rights? No. This is deserving of a true idiotic society that can’t govern themselves.
December 16, 2013 at 8:42 am
queenoftheforrest
(fill-in blank) Jon,
ditto.
December 16, 2013 at 9:18 am
suzy blah blah
Anarchists – 10; Socialists – 2
December 16, 2013 at 9:36 am
queenoftheforrest
Fitb Jon asks;
“Isn’t it clear that we are part of the problem?” No. “with our outsized energy use.”
Energy is. Energy can’t be created or destroyed. No one can tell you what electricity is. PG&E does not produce anything. They label what they do, “transmission.”
Fossil fuel -Huh? As in dinosaurs? Let’s dispense right now with that wrong-headed pattern of thought. That’s only more of the “scarcity” lie to invoke fear. Remember when “Peak oil” was broadcast continuously? Then “transparency?” (sic).
The devastating damage that “Fracking” does, and all that that implies, plus the costs of bringing that debilitating thought into the material, outweighs any benefit. 145 miles out off the coast, 98% of all of the ocean floor that was surveyed, has a layer of dead sea creatures on it. This idiotic move is just more harm, injury and death that’s being sold to the people in the guise of “energy.” Let’s hear it for all of those STATE agencies working so hard, at the unknown expense, for we the people!
If you believe government, you’d better check your beliefs.
December 16, 2013 at 9:55 am
Liberal Jon
energy.
i see.
that’s the (another?) disconnect.
energy is a real measurable thing. If you understand energy, real energy, the kind that consumes fossil fuels, then you might understand my concerns and why i distinguish chevron, say, from the public sector. chevron et. al. is the one holding the cards right now and we are all struggling to regain the reigns of power from them in our deliberative chambers.
the disconnect(s) continue to get clearer every day.
so again, we agree on the problem, off shore fracking, what is the solution qotf or cheerleader sbb? That is the question. That is one of the reasons I care so much about regional planning. Solutions are often separated from the problem by several degrees.
what can we do about the fracking? Send out 8 blokes in camo with rifles? They try that btw in Algeria to verging degrees of success. If we do send out that vandalism squad, don’t you think the companies will have the resources to build a more effective defence?
The other alternative is to vote for leaders who see the wisdom in strengthening the Coastal Commission, instead of weakening it.
December 16, 2013 at 10:10 am
suzy blah blah
energy is a real measurable thing
-another lie that was embedded in brainwashedjon’s head.
December 16, 2013 at 10:11 am
Joe Blow
One solution is to personally hold the people that empower these corrupt so-called “leaders” responsible and accountable.
December 16, 2013 at 10:30 am
suzy blah blah
-Joe, but we can’t even get lyingjon to be accountable. How are we gonna get any responsibility out of his leaders?
December 16, 2013 at 10:56 am
Joe Blow
Good question, Suzy. Maybe change the rules.
December 16, 2013 at 11:00 am
Liberal Jon
“energy is a real measurable thing
-another lie that was embedded in brainwashedjon’s head.”
This is just wrong no matter what you call me. This is a fundamental thing to understand. It’s measurable. PG&E and the gas station have units of energy they sell to you to power the vehicle your friends picked you up in and the item you are using to power your interwebs input device.
You may be referring to another use of the word, but when discussions fracking, which was qotf’s post it has a very specific meaning, which when understood, instead of willfully ignored, can help you to understand why I am so concerned about regional planning. See you at the GPU meeting today?
December 16, 2013 at 11:15 am
queenoftheforrest
Boy, Jon, maybe it’s easier all around if you stay myopic.
~i point out what I think we should all be aware of –aquatic life, Humboldt, California and the senseless havoc, fraud, deception, and theft that’s being committed upon us/nature, all to line the pockets of but a few greedy, in-human, non-caring persons involved in the “Taking” with no accountability and/or duty to their employer(s) -we the people . . . who pay their bills.
Solutions: always begin with self –since we/people hold the fix-solution. Only when we know who we are can we expect freedom ‘-the way’ to be realized. We have everything we need to create the world we choose –and this has always been available to us.
We have to do what we came here to do –transform. In order to bring ‘transform’ within a safer, home-realm, the STATE employees gots to go –the cost for their incompetence is borne on the back of the people. The CCC is a STATE façade, in-place for Public Theater. Financial records don’t lie.
Answer my question Jon. Define ‘regional.’ The virus is the illusion of communication.
December 16, 2013 at 11:16 am
Joe Blow
“***’ says: “See you at the GPU meeting today?” And accomplish what? Make some sort of worthwhile difference? I just love all these recent residents to this area who are all “so concerned about regional planning.”
December 16, 2013 at 11:24 am
suzy blah blah
-sorry conservativeJon, but you are not going to get suzy on board your fucking fracking platform no matter how you try to narrow, trap, and enslave the meaning of words, or how many statistical units you can copy down on your nerdy plastic clipboard.
December 16, 2013 at 11:36 am
Joe Blow
This got lost in all the noise. Suzy quotes my question:
…from an early age the individual contents are replaced by the mass idea which allows response without personal responsibility.
How is this condition of juvenile justification overcome?
“-by turning away from the ignorant masses, embracing chaos, and individuating. One person at a time.”
Have you had much success in your lifetime, Suzy? Find anyone willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, give it all up, to be truly free? Besides yourself, that is.
December 16, 2013 at 11:36 am
queenoftheforrest
Joe @ 10:11,
The persons we can hold responsible mainly are the ones who took an oath. (No Jon, not stagph). Power always remains with the people, we grant authority to elected officials to ‘exercise’ our power. Authority once delegated cannot again be delegated. Here’s a big bump in the path. Supes. (country-wide probably) re-delegate authority to, seemingly, the custodian. Thus relieving any responsibility. That’s why I explained what a “Commission” is. No one knows the limits placed on their position. The line that exists in the ‘Separation of powers’ is crossed over on a continual basis by anyone wearing a uniform, a robe, or dressed for a State, labeled County/City, Board show.
Unraveling.
December 16, 2013 at 11:41 am
suzy blah blah
I just love all these recent residents to this area who are all “so concerned about regional planning
-tell it like it is Joe. I gotta wonder where cultureclubjon came from, San Francisco, LA? He had the nerve on the other thread to tell suzy to get out of Humboldt Co. Did you notice that? I was born in soHum on the land under the full moon. But jon doesn’t understand the land, or nature. With him it’s measured in acreage and dollars. I’ve traveled extensively to several foreign countries. I’ve taken innumerable trips across the states. But why bother telling jon about what i saw and learned, with him the truth is measured in statistics. How many units of gas was used between Albuquerque and Oklahoma city, never mind the rest of it. Never mind suzy’s take on the Grand Canyon. Okay, if it that’s the way he sees it, the lines are drawn.
December 16, 2013 at 11:46 am
suzy blah blah
Have you had much success in your lifetime, Suzy? Find anyone willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, give it all up, to be truly free? Besides yourself, that is
-yes, suzy’s had success, although it wasn’t easy. Again i refer to the Thoreau quote:
“If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away.”
Thoreau
my emphasis.
December 16, 2013 at 11:59 am
Joe Blow
Suzy says: -yes, suzy’s had success, although it wasn’t easy.
In my book that is what has merit and value, because your solutions are rooted in life’s experience. Not some cockamamie idea floating around in someone’s mind reinforced by their morbid beliefs.
December 16, 2013 at 12:09 pm
suzy blah blah
reinforced by their morbid beliefs
-or worse, reinforced by numbers on a stat sheet.
December 16, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Liberal Jon
Chevron, Mobil, BP, et. al. is thrilled by your esoteric take on energy I’m sure. Hey, just like our local mortgage brokers and property owners are thrilled by your take on the GPU. It is exactly the take a well placed aristocrat would.
Don’t measure, don’t regulate, we got this.
December 16, 2013 at 2:26 pm
suzy blah blah
because your solutions are rooted in life’s experience. Not some cockamamie idea floating around in someone’s mind
-thanks Joe for the recognition. I think you understand where i’m coming from. I go by the irrational facts of experience, not the logical rationalizations that society hands down to us. My attitude is not made from social conditions, or from social conditioning coming from schools or media (no matter how hard jon wants to try and convince someone i am on the same page as Rush Limbaugh or the mormon dude, neither of whom i’ve ever even heard, LOL, or that he knows my take on the GPU, maybe he’ll tell me so i can take notes ). I don’t direct my life based on information that comes from within society.
Suzy is not a function of society, or the State, or whatever you want to call the abstraction. Suzy has another reference point from which to make judgements and decisions. Or that is to say, i have a reference point. The officially accepted version of reality, or what you call “cockamamie ideas bouncing around in someone’s mind” is NO reference point. It’s like chasing your tail to try and straighten out your body. Even a dog knows better.
December 16, 2013 at 2:27 pm
Thirdeye
What a plethora of off-topic, verbose, and rambling nonsense in this thread. People seem to love just seeing a bunch of their own words on the screen. Remember Keep It Short & Simple. Next!
December 16, 2013 at 2:44 pm
suzy blah blah
your take on the GPU. It is exactly the take a well placed aristocrat would.
-i think jonboy must be all high from the meeting he went to or something. Where does he get this crazy shit. Next he’ll be calling for the guillotine.
December 16, 2013 at 2:49 pm
Joe Blow
It’s because of that kind of blatant crap that he’s be come known as a wanton liar, thug bully.
December 16, 2013 at 3:14 pm
Jane
I rest my case counselor.
December 16, 2013 at 3:57 pm
Liberal Jon
“In culture there is a natural aristocracy that needs to be recognized and expressed.” Sbb
December 16, 2013 at 4:04 pm
suzy blah blah
-and your point?
December 16, 2013 at 4:08 pm
queenoftheforrest
Well know-not Jon who spreads untruths beecause you take a position on something that you haven’t spent time learning to KNOW the basics required to enable communication, i.e., ergo, linguistics that the rest of us share an agreed upon, scientific based terminology of. After your brain-not-engaged opinion of ‘energy,’ you can keep your version of what the word ‘region’ means to yourself. Kinda like the words ‘lawful,’ ‘legalize,’ ‘decriminalize,’ ‘code violation,’ ‘offense,’ ‘crime,’ and ‘felony’ huh?
The GPU has an esoteric take attached to it? Huh? Mort-dead, gage-chains. Broker -third tit.
“The right of self-government does not comprehend the government of others.”
Jefferson. Don’t try to wrap your head around this statement Jon. It’s ‘esoteric.
Like i’ve said, you beLIEve that you’re communicating in here. How can that be possible when you bring in words that mean one thing to you, and another thing to the rest of us? Communication breakdown.
December 16, 2013 at 4:23 pm
queenoftheforrest
~oh oops, Jon’s ‘esoteric’ he applied to the word ‘energy.’ Won’t make a dime’s worth of difference i’m sure.
December 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm
Liberal Jon
I would love to discuss energy, but the one I understand quite well is the one found in the darn textbooks, and on that energy it is less about opinion and more about what is. You know, left brain stuff. I’m not sure that’s interesting to the sohum p. crew. But the thought of it and the discussion so far here demonstrates to me what I assumed to be a common area of understanding is not. I think the best course for all would be for me to post thoughts on energy elsewhere.
“Regional “depends on scale. For county BOS that would entail the whole county, for the state, mabey a handful of counties.
December 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm
suzy blah blah
you beLIEve that you’re communicating in here. How can that be possible when you bring in words that mean one thing to you, and another thing to the rest of us?
-amen.
December 16, 2013 at 4:45 pm
queenoftheforrest
Liberal Jon @9:33,
~yeah that’s just what i was thinkin’ -strengthen one of the many $TATE drains labeled the Calif. Coastal Commission with ‘leaders’ who see the wisdom in it.
You’re from where?
December 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm
Liberal Jon
Btw, the GPU is goin back to Lee, Bob and crew from what I can tell. There seems to be hesitancy based on a new Harrison, temblador, hunger ford, and johnson letter based on their concerns (and presumably the HBE’s) concern on mineral resource element concerns.
The amount of power the private sector has in the process is amazing to me. It’s so ironic that spent half the day today speaking about so called “public participation” only to have a power play by this or that group change the whole GPU schedule again.
Ugh.
December 16, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Joe Blow
Forest Queen says to “***”: “you beLIEve that you’re communicating in here. How can that be possible when you bring in words that mean one thing to you, and another thing to the rest of us?”
Is this not one of the definitions of aristocracy, elitistism and exceptionalism? Really! It’s like this guy is from another world or another time.
December 16, 2013 at 5:41 pm
Joe Blow
Thirdeye: What a plethora of off-topic, verbose, and rambling nonsense in this thread. People seem to love just seeing a bunch of their own words on the screen. Remember Keep It Short & Simple. Next!
If this funny person is talking to jon, he’s wasting his time. Besides, this blog can only handle one wannabe pissant god at a time.
December 16, 2013 at 5:57 pm
Joe Blow
“***”jon says: The amount of power the private sector has in the process is amazing to me. It’s so ironic that spent half the day today speaking about so called “public participation” only to have a power play by this or that group change the whole GPU schedule again.
Kind of proved my point.
Joe said : “***’ says: “See you at the GPU meeting today?” And accomplish what? Make some sort of worthwhile difference? I just love all these recent residents to this area who are all “so concerned about regional planning.”
“Public participation” in any government venue has proven to be nothing more than a meaningless “public placation” – a smoke screen and a fraud. I’d say the jokes on jon and his ilk.
December 16, 2013 at 8:51 pm
suzy blah blah
-jon, what i don’t think you got is that suzy wasn’t talking about society, i was talking about culture. In society, yes, more democracy is needed. In culture, no, it’s fucking things up bad. This culture we are living in is a cheap noisy circus. My point is that there’s no reason to have more democracy in the culture. The culture is about how talented you are. How good you are at doing something. Hence my quote that you plucked, “there needs to be a recognition of a natural aristocracy in the culture“. Get it?
Take something like writing. Writing isn’t about, anyway it shouldn’t be about, having more democracy in the field. “oh, now with self-publishing, and internet, and blogs, and all, everybody has a chance to be a “writer … isn’t that awesome?” NO, that’s too much democracy for it’s own good. It dumbs down the culture. The idea that anybody can be a writer, anybody can be an artist, anybody can cut their own cd, is supposed to be good for culture? … I say, if you are no good, if you have no talent, please shut up. This democratic opportunity, this “fair chance”, is a waste of time and energy for you and for everyone else. What you have to say clogs up the stream. It’s valueless.
December 17, 2013 at 7:27 am
liberal jon
He had the nerve on the other thread to tell suzy to get out of Humboldt Co. Did you notice that?
I didn’t notice that. Where did I say this? It a) would have been extremely rude and b) is not what I believe, so a source would be nice.
“But jon doesn’t understand the land, or nature. With him it’s measured in acreage and dollars. I’ve traveled extensively to several foreign countries. I’ve taken innumerable trips across the states. But why bother telling jon about what i saw and learned, with him the truth is measured in statistics. How many units of gas was used between Albuquerque and Oklahoma city, never mind the rest of it. Never mind suzy’s take on the Grand Canyon. Okay, if it that’s the way he sees it, the lines are drawn.”
I welcome reading about your experiences if you care to share. Grand Canyon?
Qotf’s post on fracking was fortuitous. I actually have a fair amount of heart and mind knowledge on the subject (Imwo) and that post has spurred me to write more about it. It’s actually more that any other reason why I feel so strongly about the GPU. (Don’t worry, not here unless on topic)
“What you have to say clogs up the steam. It’s valueless”
Good timing!, i’ll take you up on that but not because of your opinion, I will not be a victim myself. I will (continue to)step back because I need to focus elsewhere so at least we agree on the action, if not the reasons for the action.
To be clear, I’m still here, I’m still reading and interested, but I realize the disconnects more than I did before, some on my part, some on yours. I’ll just be doing more reading than interactive writing with you sbb and qotf. I really don’t hold any bad feelings or grudges. I’ve enjoyed and learned from the conversation and understand that despite the rhetoric, from me too, there is a great deal there we agree on. The nature of blogunication is we tend to focus on what divides us, it seems to be more interesting.
This is not a moratorium a la JB (hi Joe!), just another step away. And so you won’t be surprised, in absolutely no way am I going to be a victim and be pressed to shut up my valueless, pissant opinions, you will still need the mouse to scroll down past all the carefully numbered words occasionally.
What I can’t do is continue to carry on each conversation or defend every slight or untruth and that means, to be fair, that I can’t (or won’t? ) comment on your writings unless you make it clear that you do care about or would like my otherwise valueless take on this or that.
And, final point! Fairness IS important to us humans I don’t think we can deny that. Culture, society, economy, whatever tries to teach us it’s not, but our understanding of this is often, not always, instinctual. If there is conflict between us or anyone for that matter, it’s important to view eachother of opponents (like in sports). If we view eachother as enemies we may forget about our human instinct for the golden rule…. And this… “Good people divided by politics and religion”
December 17, 2013 at 7:28 am
Mitch
Oh my. Ms. Blah thinks the opportunity for individuals to cut their own CDs or publish their own books is a waste of time and energy. In fairness, it’s only a waste of the time and energy when it’s done by those who Ms. Blah had decided have no talent and are no good. But Ms. Blah, like record company executives, publishing houses, and art critics, knows quality and will happily serve as gatekeeper. Thanks, Ms. Blah. I’d been worried that I’d be stuck listening to music and reading people’s books even when they lacked quality.
Eric, Jon, Jane, Unk John, Bolithio, moviedad, anyone else out there with two synapses left talking to one another… consider clipping Ms. Blah’s last post as a reminder to pay her no further attention.
December 17, 2013 at 9:37 am
queenoftheforrest
Well, well, well, if it isn’t Mitch chiming in with his predictable 3-week rant about one of the commentors.
“Bodily decay is gloomy in prospect, but of all human contemplations the most abhorrent is body without mind.” Jefferson
Corporations- 0 anarchists – 10
December 17, 2013 at 10:23 am
Joe Blow
I thought Eric had a problem with Nazi’s advocating on his blog. What Mitch said is what happens when you go to a so-called “public participation” meeting and try to have your say as one citizen to another. None of it is about the right to free expression of one’s legal rights – it’s all about kissing some worthless bastard’s sorry ass.
December 17, 2013 at 11:28 am
suzy blah blah
In fairness, it’s only a waste of the time and energy when it’s done by those who Ms. Blah had decided have no talent and are no good
-well, it it was certainly a waste of everyone’s time and energy when Mitch tried to write Heraldo’s blog.
December 17, 2013 at 12:13 pm
HUUFC
Ouch!
December 17, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Tyler Durden
Democrat Jon, Liberal Jon, Get-A-Life Jon,
Before you start to get a stirring in your loins for Chris Kerrigan, you may want to ask him about the May 2005 incident in question:
http://www.northcoastjournal.com/051205/news0512.html
DUI FOR FORMER CANDIDATE: Charlene Cutler-Ploss, a member of the Eureka Design Review Committee and Redevelopment Advisory Board and a former City Council candidate, was arrested May 1 on suspicion of driving under the influence, Eureka police said. Cutler-Ploss, 38, who was reportedly returning from a Planned Parenthood fund-raiser with Councilman Chris Kerrigan, was in the driver’s seat of a Volvo at 12:08 a.m. in the 800 block of Henderson, police said. The parked car, which was running with its lights on, attracted the attention of a neighbor, who called police to report a “suspicious vehicle.” The officer who responded to the call spoke to Cutler-Ploss and subsequently arrested her, whereupon she refused to take breath or blood tests, police said. That refusal earns Cutler-Ploss an automatic one-year suspension of her drivers’ license by the Department of Motor Vehicles, beginning in 30 days, police said.
There are three EPD officers who have been waiting for Kerrigan to poke his head out of his hole and run for office so they can tell the voters exactly what they witnessed.
Could be the reason he went to campaign for John Edwards. They both have a lot in common.
Contrary to Erik Kirk posting “unsourced claims about Chris”, there is the source for story.
And there’s more.
Ask Kerrigan about the time the EPD went into his home as neighbors were complaining about drug use. With a house full of drug paraphernalia, Kerrigan actually told the officers, “That’s not mine. I don’t know how it got here”.
To which the officers replied, “Don’t you live here?”
Be sure to ask Kerrigan what he has been doing with his life these past five years.
Does “progressive” mean unemployed, having mom and dad still pay the bills when you are in your 30s?
Salzman has his work cut out for him here. This isn’t going to be like 2004.
December 17, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Eric Kirk
So Tyler, basically, you would disqualify him because he was a passenger in a vehicle driven by someone else who might have been intoxicated, and he and/or his housemates smoked marijuana. Given all the baggage that’s on the Board of Supervisors for much more recent incidents involving either their own behavior or that of people close to them, do you really want to go there?
I get the feeling that somebody is really afraid of Kerrigan, because this smells pathetically desperate.
December 17, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Just Watchin
Looks like we got us a real pissing match in the making!
December 17, 2013 at 5:03 pm
Anonymous
I doubt there’s going to be a whole lot of swing voters who will give a rat crap about Kerrigan being in Cutler-Ploss’s vehicle during her DUI, or for that matter about the completely unproven insinuations that go along with that story. Good for stirring up the base maybe, but that’s about it.
December 17, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Joe Blow
“Looks like we got us a real pissing match in the making!” Maybe, if all you’re interested in doing postulating for the dishonest and the corrupt.
December 17, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Fred Mangels
Just more partisan crap. Deal with any issues that arise, not whether someone was fooling around in a car. Sleazebag stuff that Tyler’s bringing up, although character is an consideration. Issues are what should count.
Lest anyone think I’m letting the lefties off the hook, nope. They’ll be doing the same thing when they get the chance.
December 17, 2013 at 5:24 pm
HUUFC
I just want to know what the heck he’s been doing since 2005. Working for private industry? Pole dancer? Peace corps?What?
December 17, 2013 at 6:42 pm
Anonymous
Cabana Boy.
December 17, 2013 at 7:25 pm
Joe Blow
Character IS the issue, Fred. Until you understand that truth you’ll just keep on voting in corrupt lawless people hoping they do the right thing – a virtual impossibility.
December 17, 2013 at 8:14 pm
suzy blah blah
-first rule of project mayhem, you do not talk about project mayhem. Second. rule of project mayhem, you do not talk about project mayhem
December 18, 2013 at 1:31 am
liberal jon
This is the politics of the Right writ tiny. Character assassination when you can’t speak about policy, just remind everyone the guy or* gal is human. I didn’t know anything about this, but thanks to many anons and even FM’s either insincere or ironic and inept defense I know do. Also I can never unknow it regardless of the …. accuracy. And, no I’m am not interested any further innuendo.
Instead what we get from the right are politicians with exactly the same pinch of human to them, maybe just expressed in different ways, AND they don’t give a crap about the public sector.
This tactic becomes particularly stomach-turning when one knows the people involved. I hope other voter’s resolve are similarly buttressed they hear crap like this.
Btw, something I never wrote about but was said to be said during canvassing was this particular horrid lie… that Lisa Ollivier was a single Mother. She’s not of course, but the right NEEDS something, ANYTHING other than policy to get people motivated to make it all the way to the polls. (Nothing wrong with single mothers which is the other edge to this lie, but there is a large segment of our population who would still hold such a thing against a woman)
*in this case the conjunct is “and” guy AND gal, doubling the effectiveness and value of this nasty and unethical (or amoral if you prefer) innuendo-meme.
December 18, 2013 at 1:52 am
liberal jon
And notice how similar this is to the ‘hit’ narrative of the other thread. The story itself says nothing about the extra curricular activity, until of course FM chimed in (and anon 503) with his buried (and unreported) headline (while concern trolling about such bs!?) What the hell Fred? Feel free to delete my posts EK if you delete Fred’s. I find this slimy politics bs, but exactly par for course.
December 18, 2013 at 9:40 am
Joe Blow
Being “human” does not equate to being naturally “corrupt.” Naturally corrupt, liars, dishonest, murders, etc. equate to “naturally corrupt murderers.” This belief that you can separate the character from the so-called “issue defined politician” is a pipe-dream conjured in some séance with dead people. “Nasty and unethical, amoral innuendo” is blatant filthy corruption on its face. It is something jon does constantly. You’re the last person that should be running their mouth and trying to justify their right to lie, slander and malign. It is kind of funny, though, seeing jon get a dose of his own salts he so liberally hands out to everyone he “disagrees” with on these blogs.
December 18, 2013 at 10:34 am
Anonymous
I guess Jon didn’t notice that during the last supervisorial race, Bohn was the subject of anonymous rumors about illicit activities he was alleged to have taken part in “back in the day.” And perhaps Jon has forgotten how anonymous commenters tried to make Estelle’s personal life an issue, including in the comment section right here on Sohum Parlance. Do either of those things make “Tyler’s” sleazy line of attack any more justifiable? No, of course not. But they do demonstrate that even here in Humboldt, this kind of mudslinging is by no means unique to “the right,” Jon’s usual selective indignation notwithstanding.
December 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Just Watchin
Ponder these quotes from LyinJon:
“I respect Chris even more given his support for Edwards.”
“character is not critical for my vote for a political leader. ”
WOW…….
December 18, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Joe Blow
Schmoozing with jon and the propagation of his ongoing contagion – the perversion of integrity.
Anonymous said…
Wow John I don’t even know what to say your kind of like debating with a person that can’t hear and keeps repeating the same mantras government goooood I hope your naive ness works well for you I’m sure it’ll help keep your blood pressure and stress level down anyway debating the subject anymore would just be a waste of both our time cheers and good salutations
THC Copied from Fred’s blog.
Maybe it’s called “Self Isolation” or maybe it’s give a man enough rope and he’ll hang himself. Schmoozing can be dangerous to your health.
December 18, 2013 at 12:43 pm
liberal jon
JW – why don’t we get it over with and just get a figurehead – say royalty or a president (with a prime minister who would actually do the work) to cover the right’s fetish with character? The quote you chose is perfect – character isn’t critical. How could it be – especially today when we know every last facet of an individual’s life. That’s new you know. How do you think Lincoln would have fared? Washington? We know that Kennedy, FDR would have failed. What the right is looking for is a saint – someone like saint Reagan’s image discounting his first wife and all that pesky Iran-Contra stuff.
My favorite barber in town is a great guy and a Republican. I think the world of him. I was in the room when a customer and him were waxing nostalgic about Reagan after the customer’s tour of Reagan’s California Ranch. The discussion was all about what a great guy Reagan was – great to his staff, friends, etc. I think the right focuses too much on that at the cost of policy. The Good Man is required, the Leader. He, always he, must have executive experience, he must have worked in private industry, he better be straight, Christian, God fearing.
Why don’t we just get over all this and have royalty so we are not as focused on human failings? That could be our connection to the divine and leave the dirty work of politics and policy to the humans. (btw, I am NOT for this – I do think the Right should be though)
I’m glad Weiner didn’t win, I wouldn’t have voted for him if there was another liberal alternative. I would have voted for Spitzer- he was very effective at what he did, Weiner wasn’t. If it was Edwards vs. McCain I may have voted for McCain – what Edwards did to his wife was beyond the pail – however another commenter mentioned that what McCain had done wasn’t that much different.
That’s the problem. When it comes down to it we are all human and if we are seeking perfection I think we will too often be disappointed. Oh, also, the Right really loves this focus on character because they have no policy other than drowning government in the bathtub and reducing taxes. With the major problem facing the United States being inequality, those policy initiatives will not win. So, you like our local right will continue to focus on anything but policy – even when we have to stray a little a a lot from an accurate narrative – it’s more important to further the narrative of the angry, amoral, and simply unAmerican liberal, progressive or Democrat.
Yes, I’m a little tired of that and I think the electorate is too. If in doubt, look no further than the 2012 Republican Presidential Primary – no one could stand up to that kind of scrutiny. You all went though them all until the last one standing was an upstanding patriarchal citizen who also happened to be the creator at the state level of the Right’s single biggest issue.
Aren’t we supposed to save casting the stones for someone who can?
Chris Kerrigan was 20 when he first entered office. What were you like at 20? Don’t you think that the microscope our tabloid media places on politicians and our insatiable appetite for those stories is over done? Where would you suggest drawing the line? We can never go back to the days when the media did not report indiscretions. What do we do? Realistically.
A 10:34 (always anon)- I would decry such politics from the left equally. Not during election season (say 1 to 3 months before an election) because that would not be fair to those people on the left trying to win fairly, but after the election I think it is time to decry slimy politics from my own side too. But lets be clear this is not a both sides are doing this equally issue.
December 18, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Joe Blow
Ever hear a rapist try to justify his right to violate his victims? Same kind of thinking.
December 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm
suzy blah blah
-when i choose who to vote for, character always trumps policy. Character is deep, policy superficial, character is the rock that the house stands on, policy the curtains which adjust the amount of light that comes in. Character remains, policy can change on a whim or a phone call. I think Estelle has a lot of character. I haven’t made up my mind on Kerrigan. But just cuz he was a passenger in a car means nothing to me. The fact that he had some bongs on the table strikes me as a positive, concerning character. Lovelace is another story, that is one crude dude … but that’s enough for now. I’ll give my character assessments of other politicians when i have more time. Basically, the best politicians have character. The others, not so much.
December 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm
Anonymous
liberal jon said: ” I would decry such politics from the left equally. Not during election season (say 1 to 3 months before an election) because that would not be fair to those people on the left trying to win fairly, but after the election I think it is time to decry slimy politics from my own side too.”
Fascinating. What tangled webs…
December 18, 2013 at 4:32 pm
liberal jon
Try it A. It’s not as easy when you are not an anon and fairness is a concern.
December 18, 2013 at 6:38 pm
Anonymous
I fail to see the “fairness” of giving your own side a free pass on sleazy campaigning. That seems like the exact opposite of “fairness.”
December 18, 2013 at 8:27 pm
Forest Queen
U.K. protesters block entrance to Fracking site with a 1 ton turbine blade.
Tap of fire -Fracking in Texas -gas in drinking water:
December 18, 2013 at 8:43 pm
Forest Queen
Tax-avoiding, consumer-exploiting -big business largely responsible for these abuses:
http://consciouslifenews.com/7-rip-offs-corporations-wealthy-dont-about/1168821/
December 19, 2013 at 8:59 am
Just Watchin
Seems that people have been lighting their water taps long before fracking. Don’t feed the hysteria….
https://www.mackinac.org/19050
December 19, 2013 at 9:03 am
suzy blah blah
-thanks for bringing us back to reality again, forest. While the conservatives are busy wasting energy arguing about what energy is, and the flag wavers concern themselves over the latest news from the PTA on who slapped who’s butt in the locker room, we need to continue to move steadily ahead networking with others who have awakened. Let the yin shine 😉
December 19, 2013 at 10:01 am
Forest Queen
~thanks suzy. And also for your ever-present synopsis H&K
December 19, 2013 at 10:07 am
Forest Queen
J.W.,
~from the west coast; thanks for all of your support.
Two categories of cognitive biases: 1. biases that compel us to see PATTERNS where there aren’t any, or attribute MEANING to meaningless patterns, and 2. biases that interfere with our ability to properly weigh evidence (e.g. confirmation bias).
December 19, 2013 at 10:42 am
liberal jon
Anon 1:47
“I fail to see the “fairness” of giving your own side a free pass on sleazy campaigning. That seems like the exact opposite of “fairness.” ”
Give you an example of what might have been if not “sleazy” something close.
I’m curious about the timing of the ACLU lawsuit. I wonder if it could have been filed before the recent school board election where a pretty clear conservative was running against a pretty clear liberal or progressive. I’m certainly glad the suit wasn’t filed before the election wasn’t for the integrity of the election itself. I don’t think it would have been “fair”, to file the lawsuit within a month, two or possibly three before the election. One’s first concern has to of course be the urgency of filing for those it is mean to protect of course, so I could conceive of a need to file before the election. However, the fact that it was filed afterward and the highly charged discussion started after the electorate had a chance to make it’s choice I think is appropriate.
And, if, say Mr. Fullerton had won and people on the left or right were upset with the Board’s role in the allegations and started to demand a recall, I would not have been a supporter.
There is probably a better word for it than fairness, maybe it’s integrity of the election, or something, but fairness gets the point I’m trying to make across reasonably well. (if not perfectly)
I do believe in non-partisanship in the sense that we should respect a certain level playing-field (sorry sbb). This isn’t a feud, it’s about policy, it’s about deciding on policies and even some ethics that are going to be best for our shared future. The slime that I learned, ironically from Fred when he was trying to decry the slime* is going to be a part of our politics probably forever. What we have to do is try to somehow deal with it.
One of my personal tactics or strategies is what I tried to do in the “incident” thread. Focus on accuracy and preventing those who wanted to move the incident to promote their fanciful narratives whatever they may be. It’s complicated and not everyone is going to understand what I’m doing. Even if I state it clearly – which btw, is not a matter of not being able to understand what I’m saying as much as it is not wanting to understand – there is an important difference.
* I don’t know if he did that intentionally or not – I’m not sure if he would even know.
December 19, 2013 at 10:58 am
liberal jon
Instead of “preventing” in the last paragraph, I should have written “trying to prevent”. Big difference.
December 19, 2013 at 11:02 pm
Forest Queen
l jon @ 10:42 says;
“It’s difficult and not everyone is going to understand what I’m doing.”
Obedience is not a virtue.
December 21, 2013 at 4:18 pm
moviedad
You’re wasting your time Jon. You can’t use logic and actual English definitions of words with this crew. These anonymous Mullahs have their own definitions. I’m sure they have their own ‘math’ as well, they wouldn’t lower themselves to use the math and science of us “sheep.”
December 21, 2013 at 4:55 pm
liberal jon
I’m getting there moviedad. I might actually finally be there. Our general agreement on the problem of fracking and the ensuing conversation on definitions and solutions was eye opening and I kinda wish I started on June 4th with the question. Can everyone pretty please write how they understand energy. It would have saved a great deal of heartache.
December 21, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Joe Blow
You’re preaching to the choir, moviedad…
Or did that fact miss your acute perception of reality? Kind of hard to miss all the sleazy, slime trails running all over everyone and everything though.
December 22, 2013 at 9:01 am
suzy blah blah
-the meek little Banana Slugs are appreciating each other more and more today due to advanced speed slime excretion recognition software, really really soft, and it is written that as they find each other and join together they will inherit the earth. The way we, er, they find each other is by following the slime trails ………..
Slimy BS – 19
Dry Choir – 0
.
December 22, 2013 at 8:29 pm
moviedad
Incomprehensible.
December 22, 2013 at 9:21 pm
suzy blah blah
-well, it’s difficult and not everyone is going to understand what I’m saying.
December 22, 2013 at 9:41 pm
queenoftheforrest
~way too many are desensitized to being oppressed -already defeated. A conquered slave, voting for the status quo. Don’t vote, it only encourages them. If voting could change anything it would be illegal. A vote is your consent, and if you consent it isn’t rape when they phuuk you.
December 23, 2013 at 5:52 am
liberal jon
moviedad – it’s entirely comprehensible if you read closely. The message is don’t mess with the cool revolutionaries you squares. You with your measurements and your propaganda and your concern about avoiding a collapse of civilization. We do not want to subject our own ideas to the light of day as that often has undesirable consequences, so it’s best if we attack the messengers. If we do that eventually people will give up – it’s inevitable with the mind-knowledge folks, they are all rational in the end.
sbb – hi sbb – in the score sbb is referring to the absurdity of comparisons of sports to politics. In the slime and slug I think sbb, you are referring to JB’s slug slime poop analogy. In the ‘join together’ suzy, you are referring to the gall of you, moviedad, and I commiserating or daring to speak to one another without them being involved. suzy, I’m pretty sure the 9:21 quote is one of mine that would probably seem a great deal less offensive if in context.
moviedad – what this is about. It’s about power. If you can’t get it through the ballot box, josie* is here. and josie is not familiar with the golden rule, or at least she will be the judge of who deserves the privilege of that rule.
And part of power is communication. That’s why both the Libertarian/anarchist/revolutionaries (liberarchonuciaris?) in HumCo can unite with a conservative like JW and various anons to just troll the heck out of valuable, thoughtful and contrarian web sites like Sohum P and Heraldo. (Yes, liberalism is contrarian in HumCo, whether the Sohum Weed Inc. Libertarian likes to admit it to themselves or not – they are the heart of HumCo’s reactionary, conservative politics right now – the Tea Party is gone.)
The Liberarchonuciaries are often funded by Weed Inc (directly or not). and they are THE political force right now in HumCo buttressed by a pliant development crowd that can’t be too over-the-top because they are busy pretending to be Democrats so they can actually stay in office. It’s complicated and not everyone is going to understand what I’m saying.
(oops, *josie is a famous anti-government outlaw that qotf, you, posted a couple of weeks ago)
And, btw, the reason the contrarian or thoughtful websites are important is the for-profit media cannot tell the stories that need to be told. They are dependent on money too. That leaves only the blogs and smart people like sbb (and JW) understand the power of blogs and do a great job of monkeywrenching many ideas or conversations.
December 23, 2013 at 10:52 am
suzy blah blah
desensitized to being oppressed
-oppressed by evil they become that evil. Subjugated from above they become the oppressor of those they perceive as below them. Not being able to be free, they hate those who are free. And their hatred is their source of power.
December 23, 2013 at 11:08 am
queenoftheforrest
Tjon,
Your ‘feelings’ about the conclusion carry no argumentative weight. They’re irrelevant to the argument.
FYI – Liberty is a form of ‘energy’ as well as being a right.
December 23, 2013 at 11:24 am
queenoftheforrest
Tjon on the 19th @10:42 says;
“This isn’t about a feud, it’s about policy, it’s about deciding on policies . . “
“Policy” uncertainty is just a portion of the regime uncertainty paralyzing the economy. Public “Policies” based on the pretense of knowledge, backed
by coercion, are neither intellectually respectable nor a guarantee of improvement, however frequently or adamantly such promises are made.
Knowledge of cognitive biases is commonly used to manipulate public opinion (as i recently posted on HoHum).
Get rid of all that has brought us to this place of despair.
December 23, 2013 at 11:35 am
Joe Blow
Hello Folks. How many of you still believe Jesus Christ will return soon or in the near future? Well, I am here, shouting to the world, the returned Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, is right here LIVE in Humboldt County!
He does not call himself Jesus Christ, but it is him just the same. Like Jesus, though, he already has a litany of names. It is Jesus alright. He walks and talks and spews his profligate religious, albeit, political Words of God with the proselytizing fervor only akin to a perfected, righteous and Holy Biblical Jesus Christ. He “knows” how you think, what you believe, what kind of a person you are, what your religion is, what your political beliefs are and anything else you might wonder about. His wisdom and personal advise is glorious! And if you should express the temerity to disagree, he has his two-edged sword waiting for you. God’s Judgment is Absolute. Just look at the proof on this blog alone, it is monumental. A current example par excellence is the one above dated : December 23, 2013 at 5:52 am. PLUS he already has some of his Apostles and many disciples doing his apologetic bidding.
Some might confuse this incarnate Jesus Christ with the Biblical prophesied “Man of Lawlessness” because of the self-righteous, idolatrous, corrupt thinking and apologetic beliefs. [2 Thessalonians 2:3 CSB – “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For [that day] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.”] He would say that confusion is only because you have not developed further along in your spiritual, I mean, progressive, liberal thinking and practices. You need to perfect your worship at the Temple of Demonstrated Democracy.
So, all you believers and non-believers alike, you get down on your knees in reverent obeisance and pay your required homage to your Returned Lord and Master. You can be assured of your reward; he and his many disciples will carry you off into heavenly bliss – whatever the hell that is.
December 23, 2013 at 11:36 am
queenoftheforrest
~oh oops -my comment about ‘cognitive biases’ is up above here on the 19th @10:00, just above yet more of misguided ‘feelings’ jon.
Give it a re-read and see if you “get it.”
December 23, 2013 at 12:35 pm
suzy blah blah
He “knows” how you think, what you believe, what kind of a person you are, what your religion is, what your political beliefs are and anything else you might wonder about
-he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you’re awake, he knows if you’ve been good or bad, so … do you think he knows where suzy’s millions of dollars are buried?
December 23, 2013 at 12:47 pm
suzy blah blah
-will they be replaced by a democratic lump of coal?
December 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm
queenoftheforrest
suzy,
“Will they (millions) be replaced by a democratic limp of coal?”
~ten doll hairs on ‘yes.’
December 23, 2013 at 1:51 pm
suzy blah blah
-a liberal lump of coal is one thing, but what i’m really afraid of is how the know-it-all dude dwells so democratically on the golden rule. I sure the fuck don’t want an old fart with a red nose and bad breath showing up on christmas eve and trying to do unto me what he’d like suzy to do to him.
December 23, 2013 at 4:36 pm
Just Watchin
Sbb….I know where my millions are…….
December 24, 2013 at 7:44 am
liberal jon
Thought (admission) sbb for Christmas Eve – dichotomies are a useful tool for us to understand stuff (heart/mind, left/right brain, red/blue, oil/water, night/day, man/woman, heaven/hell?) There is truth in the existence of the dichotomy, but it isn’t always that simple. I hope you know I realize this – and I hope you realize this – especially with heart/mind
Regarding mind knowledge and “know-it-all”. I can remember the exact moment this thought first occurred to me. I was prone to enjoy my free time in a library. I love the nooks and crannies and the limitless knowledge that was there (this was pre-internet). I was browsing some obscure section and realized when I picked up a book on something I really wanted to learn – but then looked at all the similar interesting books, and then looked down the corridor of books that I would never be able to know it all or even anything remotely close.
It’s a simple concept, but “not everyone is going to understand what I’m saying” because not everyone either innately gets it or has experienced it. JW may not have experienced it. Either he knows for sure that anonymous poster was me, or he does an excellent job of selling that narrative to either himself or us.
If you forget the mind completely, which I know you don’t, that is probably either you sowing chaos or just making a complicated point simple (like I try to do with red/blue) – if you forget the mind, you might not have learned that the more you know about something, un-intuitively it turns out what you don’t know increases too, so in a weird but very real way you actually know less than you did when you started learning. It can be frustrating.
So, I don’t know it all, and I would never say I did, I know a lot because I enjoy learning, but that also makes me so aware of how much I don’t know – and that is a whole shit-load more.
Anyway, not coming back in, just a little Christmas thought for you this Christmas eve.
qotf – Merry Christmas and special thoughts to you too. I may not always respond, but more often than not I really enjoy your posts. You are the most courageous commenter in Sohum, imho, bar none and I appreciate your voice a great deal even though I almost always disagree with you.
on patterns – ” biases that compel us to see PATTERNS where there aren’t any” – I’ve been documenting the existence of that pattern so it’s there for all to see. They are there if you care to see them – check ’em out by searching for “exhibit” in previous threads. I tried to label them alphabetically but wasn’t paying close enough attention to always do so perfectly.
December 24, 2013 at 7:53 am
liberal jon
One other thing – EK’s show on Catholicism was awesome last week (Thursday night talk). Speaking of not knowing it all, EK managed to forget that (title?) Benedict is still alive and kicking. It was a great show though with a bunch of insight into EK’s college daze and more importantly the Catholic Church from Eric’s and his mother’s perspective – really awesome. And Pope Francis? Wow. Taking on Rush Limbaugh and talking truth to power on inequality? – JW you know I’m down with Pope Francis.
It’s one of the reasons I like Stephen Colbert so much. He manages to get just the right balance on the Catholic Church. It is so clear if you pay attention how much he loves the Church and how important it has been to his life. He still manages to sock it to them when they deserve it – while pretending to be very religious. Again, it’s complicated, not everyone is going to get it.
December 24, 2013 at 11:00 am
Anonymous
blah, I really don’t think anyone would have sexual desires towards you if they read any of your postings. Especially Santa.
December 24, 2013 at 12:55 pm
queenoftheforrest
Jon,
“If language is not correct then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant then what remains undone remains undone.
If this remains undone, morals and art will deteriorate. If justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence, there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything.”
Confucius (551-479 B.C.).
Along with the absolute, all-encompassing total corruption of our political agencies by big business, apathy is the biggest obstacle to change. We can’t change the former without removing the latter. Reach beneath the stagnant routine to the omnipresent truth within.
Total revolution of consciousness and our entire social, political and economic system is what interests me, but that’s not on the ballot.
Thank you Jon for your kind words ~and a Merry Christmas to you.
December 24, 2013 at 1:19 pm
suzy blah blah
‘In that case we start afresh,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘and it’s my turn to choose a subject —’ (‘He talks about it just as if it was a game!’ thought Alice.) ‘So here’s a question for you. How old did you say you were?’
Alice made a short calculation, and said ‘Seven years and six months.’
‘Wrong!’ Humpty Dumpty exclaimed triumphantly. ‘You never said a word like it!’
‘I thought you meant “How old are you?”‘ Alice explained.
‘If I’d meant that, I’d have said it,’ said Humpty Dumpty.
Alice didn’t want to begin another argument, so she said nothing.
December 24, 2013 at 1:31 pm
Joe Blow
Forest Queen has a rather homeopathic
view of “omnipresent truth within.” She seems to think that this,
“omnipresent truth” coexists with “absolute, all-encompassing
total corruption” of who? PEOPLE. Not “political agencies” or Government. In this case “political”
people. She goes on to say: “Total revolution of consciousness and
our entire social, political and economic system is what interests
me, but that’s not on the ballot.” I ask, Why not? These political people do not operate in a vacuum.
Is it because she cannot separate
people from policy? Or lawless ingrained corruption from the Inner
Being? “Total revolution of consciousness” – I have yet to see how
this is accomplished when Truth is rejected. Yet, Truth is what it is. Take a look ForestQueen.
December 24, 2013 at 1:40 pm
queenoftheforrest
Anonymous @ 11:00,
That’s just plain mean. Clue in: truth and beauty are one in the same.
December 24, 2013 at 4:35 pm
queenoftheforrest
Joe,
~i had a reply to your 1:31 post all typed in here . . . linked to your above “Take a look Forest Queen” and managed to lose my comment.
So at least let me thank you in here for the recognition, so nice ~really sweet.
December 24, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Joe Blow
You are welcome. Happy and safe holidays.
December 25, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Joe Blow
“‘Alice’ didn’t want to begin
another argument, so she said nothing.” – à la Suzy
Silence gives consent.
If you do not object to what someone says or does, you can be assumed to agree with or condone it. [ http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Silence+gives+consent
]
“…and peace on earth to people He favors!” – Luke 2:14 CSB
This is where I made an unforgiving assumption in my business and personal life a longtime ago. I am a man and I think like a man. My business partner was a male that thought like a woman. There is a difference. So when we were negotiating some aspect of the
business and the partner could not sustain or justify his argument, he would just go quiet. From a man’s perspective, that meant he had acceded or agreed to my position or determination and we would proceed forward accordingly. All he did, however, was just stop what he considered “arguing” and bring “peace” to the relationship. However, when it came time to operate or enforce our agreed upon determination, he would refuse. He said that would mean he had conceded and agreed when he did not. When that happened when negotiating a new
contract with another business, to say the least, not only were you
screwed, but so was the whole business venture. Was I in business with a liar?
Men understand that when negotiations move from talking to doing, you move from the Way of Peace to the Way of War.
My business partner, it seemed, was more interested in being justified or “right” than making the business operable and profitable. He did this by being able to thwart my efforts in a critical situation, where I “believed” based upon his actions, that we were operating from the same position. He made sure that, ultimately, it either went his way or it went the way it
went in spite of me regardless the outcome. The outcome? Obviously, failure and bankruptcy. Either way, he obtained and retained control, but at what cost?
And that my friend is exactly what the Republican and Democratic Oligarchy and the so-called Democratic President Barack Obama are doing to this country with their looting to sustain the 1%.
December 25, 2013 at 1:52 pm
queenoftheforrest
http://humboldt.granicus.com/GeneratedAgendaViewer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=783
Go down to (C) Consent Calendar and click on 3) Approval of Board Orders
~turns my stomach.
Richardson Grove
Remote Sales Tax (say huh?)
Reduce Voter Approval
Direct Marketing Program Modernization (private Farmers/Farmer’s Mkts.)
New Court Funding
and on, and on, and on, and on.
Basically, 53 pages of horse shit – i.e., ergo -Taxation Without Representation.
These Supes. need removed and preferably hung. Illegally expanding Federal
jurisdiction into the state. Anyone recently read the Constitution these criminals and thieves took an oath to? What a sorry group of five ~poor excuses of human beings. Greedy, self-absorbed bastards!
December 25, 2013 at 2:53 pm
Joe Blow
The problem is NOT these Supervisors, Forest Queen. It is the people that voted them into office. They are merely an extension – an obvious part of the problem.
You must be a God-fearing person of honor and personal integrity to place your hand on a Bible or Sacred Holy Book and “swear” an oath and have it mean anything. When and where was the last time you met such a person worthy of your trust?
December 25, 2013 at 5:20 pm
Anonymous
blah likes Supervisor Fennell FQ.
December 25, 2013 at 5:51 pm
queenoftheforrest
Obvious enough that given the correct filings we can remove them. Point being, ‘we’ have to have the new guards in place. This is, to me, but a starting place. It’s our Duty Joe, and there ain’t no shirking it! i’m not suggesting that we aren’t part of the problem, that ‘we the people’ haven’t been blinded brain-dead for the most part of our lives, but that was then, and this is now. Everyone i know has access to the Internet . . . .undeniable evidence. How else would you suggest we deal with criminals and thieves? The only crime mentioned in the Constitution is Treason . . . for warring against the law of the land. How else would you suggest we deal with a runaway STATE slash FED. monster?
Many have given their lives for liberty,isn’t it time we renewed The authors of the Declaration, the American Constitution, and the Bill of Rights (first ten only) must be rolling in their graves. Federal land in a state -for forts, magazines, post offices and postal roads. How many acres does the Dept. of Defense OWN
in California?
i have five good friends who i completely trust.
December 25, 2013 at 9:55 pm
queenoftheforrest
suzy can like whom ever she likes, i only have control of my self.
December 26, 2013 at 10:51 am
Joe Blow
Your solution presupposes that a corrupt, lawless people will produce a workable system. The truth is staring everyone in the face; Barack Obama is the prima facie example. A rotten tree produces rotten fruit. This experiment, “Declaration, the American Constitution, and the Bill of Right” has run its course. The American people have had more than 230 years to grow up; to become a mature nation worthy of acceptance among the World of Nations as an adult among adults. It is an abject failure.
Until you are willing to accept that reality, all else is mere semantics. You can’t cure a disease treating the symptoms.
You say you have five good friends who you completely trust. Am I to assume then that they meet the criteria for my trust as well? Are they first and foremost “God-fearing people of honor and personal integrity”?
December 26, 2013 at 11:03 am
suzy blah blah
blah likes Supervisor Fennell
-bzzzzzzzzzt! … sorry dude, wrong again.
Saying someone has character is not the same as liking them –duh.
December 26, 2013 at 2:37 pm
Just Watchin
Thank you JB….all this time it was right in front of me, and I didn’t see it. ALL HAIL JESUS JON !!!
December 26, 2013 at 5:04 pm
queenoftheforrest
Joe,
~my solution isn’t about replacing the present rulers with more rulers. To adopt an attitude of defeat before freedom loving men and women have exhausted all potential remedies for this mind control is inexcusable. It’s time for this horrendous open secret to end. You say that this experiment (Constitution/Bill of Rights) is an abject failure, when we haven’t bothered to make use of what we have at our disposal to use, is premature. We have the ability to secede, we have the ability to remove the vermin, we have the ability to replace the vermin, we have the ability to claim our endowed rights. We have all the power we need to create all the changes we choose.
Standing for common law is the only functioning example left on Earth for a de jure government. The mentality is kind of like a street fight, where it’s all or nothing. You have to have that mentality, that you are fighting with absolutely every ounce of energy that you have.
Corruption isn’t the problem. The acceptance of the corruption is the problem.
All systems that flourish based on dominion and enslavement of others shall be made to fully disappear from the face of creation.
December 27, 2013 at 6:26 am
liberal jon
That’s another classic right-wing meme JW. Stupid angry, unstable, violent, liberal elitists, with their disagreements and thinking they are God’s gift to humans. The first rule of white patriarchy, don’t disagree or have a strong defensible disagreement with white patriarchy. The nerve! Who do you think you are for God’s sake?
December 27, 2013 at 7:19 am
Just Watchin
JON OF NAZARETH HAS SPOKEN !!!
December 27, 2013 at 8:01 am
liberal jon
If you all want to come in from recess, there is a good book on Jesus of Nazareth here*. I’m now even more motivated to read it because Reza spoke about the importance of Nazareth in his extended interview on the Daily Show. I recommend the interview, and based on the interview, recommend the book.
*http://www.amazon.com/Zealot-Life-Times-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/140006922X
Sorry if I pull a Michael Dukakis and refrain from taking the bait of an obnoxious question (or accusation). But you all should get back to class. It should be a good class today as the teacher is going to discuss how to best survive a walk home with skittles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF9gSyku-fc
December 27, 2013 at 8:12 am
Just Watchin
Simple answer JON ( jon of Nazareth….get it)?……if you’re a punk looking to jump someone, bring more than a bag of skittles.
December 27, 2013 at 8:53 am
liberal jon
Woah. You must have already attended this class. Carry on then JW.
December 27, 2013 at 9:36 am
Mitch
Senator Warren on government:
http://www.upworthy.com/a-senator-gets-mad-about-the-shutdown-and-starts-naming-names-about-time?c=reccon1
December 27, 2013 at 9:47 am
liberal jon
Man, I hope she runs for president. Her time is now. She knows what is going on, she is smart, and she has taken on the big boys and won.
December 27, 2013 at 10:05 am
Joe Blow
Another rotting corps offered up on the alter of Demonstrable Democracy.
December 27, 2013 at 10:06 am
Just Watchin
Naming names? Even the wording of the link is misleading. I didn’t hear her name anyone. Words are cheap. If you like those words, you can keep those words……period!
And did you hear the latest? Seems that the Liar in Chief now remembers meeting his illegal alien uncle.
December 27, 2013 at 10:57 am
Mitch
I’m not as optimistic as Senator Warren, but I know she must measure her words more carefully than those of us who just sit back and spout on blogs, and I have every confidence that she knows how rotted our system has become.
Her main point in this speech is, IMO, absolutely critical: the radical libertarian right wing has sold a very false story of what government is and must be.
Many have swallowed this story hook, line, and sinker, and have predictably chosen to blame those who actually get themselves dirty trying to solve problems. Those who want control of things to remain in the hands of the thousand families that own most of the world’s wealth are extremely skilled at presenting a phony message, and they have sufficient funds that they can easily buy whatever sellouts they need to convey their messages. Others, who for their own emotional reasons feel the need to separate themselves from the ongoing disaster, choose to blame anyone who steps up to the plate instead of joining them in whining. And the whiners are absolutely correct, those who are trying to create change are not and will never be 100% good and pure and successful.
Because the problems are, in the end, insoluble, being due to human nature, the people working to reduce them will never be able to declare complete success. Those on the sidelines can reduce their self-loathing, or try to, by blaming those doing their fighting for them.
December 27, 2013 at 11:11 am
Joe Blow
Regarding December 26, 2013 at 5:04 pm. I guess when I look at my generation and the ones following me, I don’t see the same things you do, Forest Queen. Sometimes you and I don’t operate from the same word definitions – tends to create confusion. When I speak of “corruption” I see a devalued populace that is primarily corrupt in their thinking and way of living as a consequence of their beliefs and belief systems. While they believe we live in a country ruled by law, they daily practice lawless anarchy, then wonder and whine about why they can’t get justice in the Courts. At the same time, they are neither able or willing to accept their inherent reality – hoping somehow the long lost Biblically prophesied Messiah, Jesus Christ, is going to miraculously appear in Israel and carry all the saved “Ones” off to Heaven and leave people like me here on the Earth to burn.
You say, “Corruption isn’t the problem. The acceptance of the corruption is the problem.” Maybe not, but the corrupt people are and they want their own natural kind.
You also say, “All systems that flourish based on dominion and enslavement of others shall be made to fully disappear from the face of creation.” That is my hope too. How do you propose this will happen when the majority of mankind are incapable of exercising dominion over their own individuality?
You have the essence here: “Standing for common law is the only functioning example left on Earth for a de jure government. The mentality is kind of like a street fight, where it’s all or nothing. You have to have that mentality, that you are fighting with absolutely every ounce of energy that you have.”
December 27, 2013 at 12:34 pm
queenoftheforrest
Nazareth? It’s a place?
December 27, 2013 at 12:42 pm
queenoftheforrest
~since it looks like a mish-mosh day of posting, let’s discuss Debtor Prisons -that we all have been led to believe are non-existent.
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/06/our-future-in-chains-for-profit-debtors.html
December 27, 2013 at 1:18 pm
suzy blah blah
Nazareth? It’s a place?
-yep, it’s actually a geographical place, but its major significance to us is spiritual or symbolic in that it was where Jesus stayed. Eg, Nazareth represents the soul. When Jesus is going to Nazareth he says to the disciple “follow me”. That represents the idea that following Jesus is the way to the soul. The disciple who questioned that he was the messiah said famously, “but can any good come out of Nazareth”, which represents the majorities thinking at the time (and today as well) and was/is a profane assumption about the soul. That has nothing to do with the present day physical location though.
December 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm
liberal jon
Mitch – we fundamentally disagree on this “have every confidence that she knows how rotted our system has become.”
She could not speak with such conviction or really continue if she did. At least in my opinion. She has worked her way up from a modest background through the financial sector taking on big challenges and making real differences. She is an living, breathing example that the system does work and it just needs more people that believe in it. It would be super awesome if both parties believed in it too and if the one that doesn’t … didn’t continue to double down on the disaster rhetoric and gun purchases.
December 27, 2013 at 1:57 pm
queenoftheforrest
Mitch @ 10:37 says:
“Her (Senator somebody) main point . . . .absolutely critical: the radical libertarian right wing . . .” STOP. Are there agreed upon terms of a ‘radical libertarian right wing?’ i want to know who to blame. Can i spot them walking down the street? Do they look a certain way? Carry placards, or what?
“ . . .separate themselves from the ongoing disaster” Yeah, I can see how that could be. Not.
“And the whiners (?) are absolutely correct . . those who are trying to create change are not and will never will be 100% good and pure and successful.” Source? Or just you saying something we all already know?
Winner and loser? There will never be 100% elite victory –they aren’t self-sustaining.
Unlimited State (power) is ineffective at convincing the masses. Social cooperation and ethic of productivity is what maximizes wealth. Public opinion will determine victory or defeat.
Do not fear contradiction or be offended by it. Life is contradiction. Revel in it, make it your friend. For in the cognitive dissonance, between expectation and experience, we find the truth.
December 27, 2013 at 2:01 pm
queenoftheforrest
~thanks suzy.
December 27, 2013 at 3:42 pm
suzy blah blah
the majority of mankind are incapable of exercising dominion over their own individuality
-because they’re too straight:
December 27, 2013 at 4:15 pm
Joe Blow
Well, at least Suzy understood the comment…
December 27, 2013 at 5:00 pm
suzy blah blah
-ding! The gnarly old curmudgeon gets the double-you. Cheers and huggles Joe.
December 27, 2013 at 5:25 pm
Mitch
Jon,
Perhaps rot is not the right word. What I refer to is straightforward: the fact that most investment bank executives are still walking free, the fact that the oil industry continues to be provided with unlimited thugs and police services for free, the fact that the Koch brothers are allowed to buy elections with anonymous donations, the fact that the supreme court issued a decision in Bush v Gore that it urged not be used as a precedent, yet people still pay attention to the court, the fact that a supposedly democratic nation continues to freely elect politicians who favor the startling and continuing simultaneous increase in income inequality and poverty. All these things point to what I’d consider a rotted-away democracy.
Perhaps it’s not that our democracy has rotted away, perhaps democracy itself is simply incapable of responding to the new-to-civilization difficulties that science and technology have brought upon us. The clock is ticking on planetary collapse, yet no action remotely near the scale of the necessary change is taking place via the US government — phasing out incandescent light bulbs is apparently our edgy idea of great, controversial sacrifice, and subsidies for renewable, sustainable power is still a bleeding-heart-liberal concept that is thought in apparently respectable circles to dangerously interfere with the free market.
Warren is fighting the good fight and I admire her for it; I don’t believe she fails to see any of the facts I mention above. I would never claim that things won’t turn around, but I don’t see any reason to think they will. Warren is smart enough to know that election requires optimistic talk.
December 28, 2013 at 6:56 am
liberal jon
Mitch. You make a strong case for despondency in your first paragraph. I think if Roberts did not allow the ACA to stand (even with the poison pill he added) there would have been push back against the Supreme Court from the grass-roots level. I think it would have been so clear that the “activist court” meme was an empty debate tactic. The truth is that the court is a group of 9 partisans – at least when the rubber hits the road like it did on the ACA, Bush v Gore, and Citizens United. The ancillary truth, at least to me as a partisan, is one group actually believes in a functioning and strong public sector to include a justice system. Regarding optimistic talk – yes – all politicians are guilty of this – some are more cynical about it than others.
People like Senator Warren and Senator Franken and on occasion President Obama do speak to the fundamental needs of our society that you outlined quite effectively. (and depressingly) I don’t think SOS Clinton does this as well. In other words. I foresee an economic team of Clinton’s to continue the Summer’s/Geitner/moderately Wall Street trend that I was very disappointed to see President Obama continue. However, I’m confident that a Warren Administration would be hiring people like Robert Reich as an economic and financial advisor instead of simply a labor advisor.
Our democracy is what we make it. That’s why I bother to struggle down here at the bottom of threads. It will be a reflection of who we are. If we believe in *(definition 2, not 1) our democracy it will be reflected in the majority of the voters voting. Unfortunately there is a concerted campaign to diminish peoples’ opinion of our government, despite the clear evidence that it is one of the more successful governments in world history.
And btw, what other alternative is there? If we want to change the democracy this too can be best done through the @system@ we have.
“The clock is ticking on planetary collapse, yet no action remotely near the scale of the necessary change is taking place via the US government — phasing out incandescent light bulbs is apparently our edgy idea of great, controversial sacrifice,”
a) I can’t go there on the planetary collapse, not because I don’t necessarily believe it, but because it does promote fear and anxiety. I also believe that we can address many of the problems if we address the problems. It’s important to the process that people not vote out of fear, but out of a promise of a better or more responsible future.
b) This is why I’m so interested in regional planning as I’m sure you get. Regional planning is the sort of step we need to be taking (in addition to conservation via LED bulbs, photovoltaics, and Energy Star appliances). Maybe we should take a song out of the conservative’s hymnal. Why can’t we have good local planning? The only reason is that I can see is we are not getting the message out there. People need to understand what is going on and as you can tell in Sohum Parlance comment zones, the other message is so well ingrained into our collective minds that it’s going to be a long, long process.
But I think reality is on our side, so it’s just a matter of continuing to plug at it year after year after year. I don’t see any other option.
* Believe in…(from Google)
1. have faith in the truth or existence of.
“I believe in ghosts”
synonyms: be convinced of the existence of, be sure of the existence of More
2. be of the opinion that (something) is right, proper, or desirable.
“I don’t believe in censorship of the arts”
December 28, 2013 at 7:46 am
Mitch
Jon,
And btw, what other alternative is there?
Yes, that’s the ultimate question.
I can’t go there on the planetary collapse, not because I don’t necessarily believe it, but because it does promote fear and anxiety…[not] a promise of a better or more responsible future.
I think I understand where you are going here — that when voters vote out of fear, they tend to favor demagogues offering phony, easy solutions, often involving scapegoating. And, on a more pragmatic level, it appears to me that only politicians offering optimism are able to win elections.
However, planetary collapse is what we are witnessing. That brings us back to the ultimate question.
Philosophers like to use “trolley” examples to explore the way people react in moral conundrums. So here’s a trolley example. Two trolleys filled with children are headed straight for one another, on the same track. The drivers have both fallen asleep, lulled by wicked witches. The trolleys will hit, killing all the children, unless the electricity to the third rail is turned off, in which case the collision will only kill a third of the children. To turn off the electricity, you have two options: fax a petition the electric company, or encourage the Board of Supervisors to conduct an analysis. Which do you choose?
December 28, 2013 at 9:16 am
queenoftheforrest
Joe yesterday @ 11:11,
~when I say ‘corrupt’ i’m referring to the System –NOT the people. True enough, when the foundation is corrupt whatever is erected on it will also be corruptible.
“They say this is a country of laws, well, when the law itself is lawless by application and when the intent of the law is for extortion of wealth or reprisal over protection of the people, then the letter of the law itself becomes mute and the application thereof a crime in itself to be repudiated.” WJB (i don’t know who). What i/we do has always been here to be learned by anybody who wants to discover it. It has nothing to do with time or place.
Justice in the courts. The ‘court’ is one’s correctly prepared, signed/sealed, notarized, and delivered Affidavit PERIOD. Say it. Write it. Be it! What you refer to as ‘court’ is an Administration Room with a robed Pirate Administering Codes. There are only two ways to lose –1) testify against yourself or 2) hire an attorney.
All systems that flourish based on dominion and enslavement of others shall be made to fully disappear from the face of creation . . .How do i propose this is going to happen when the majority of mankind are incapable of exercising dominion over their own individuality? For me, the solution has to be primarily spiritual and secondary the body politic. By spiritual i mean the acknowledgment that our connection to one another and the planet must be prioritized. “To make the world work for 100 percent of humanity in the shortest possible time through spontaneous co-operation without ecological offence or the disadvantage to anyone” –Buckmaster Fuller. This implies the dismantling of our entire socio-economic machinery. Can this be achieved when we are enslaved by old ideologies?
“Profit” is the most profane word we have. On its pursuit we have forgotten that while individual interests are being met, we as a whole are being annihilated. We have to see that these are connected. We have succumbed to an ideology that is 100 per cent corrupt and must be overthrown. The maintenance of this system depends on our belief that “there’s nothing we can do.” But we are far from apathetic, we are far from impotent. i take great courage from the groaning effort required to keep us down. Our young people need to know there is a culture, a strong broad union, that they can belong to, that is potent, virile, and alive.
How is Christ’s death and transcendence relevant if we do not resurrect our consciousness from the deceased, morbid mind of our obsolete ideologies and align with our conditions? If like the native people of America we believed God was in the soil what would our intuitive response be to fracking?
When we are given the correct information in an engaging fashion, we will stir. We have to be inclusive of everyone, to recognize that our similarities are more important than our differences and that we have an immediate ecological imperative. We require a change that is beyond the narrow parameters of the current debate, outside of our current system.
We can’t be led by people who have never struggled. Time may only be a human concept, and therefore ultimately unreal, but what is real, is that this is the time to wake up. The revolution of consciousness is a decision, decisions take a moment.
December 28, 2013 at 9:25 am
queenoftheforrest
for Eric:
Global March Against Chemtrails January 25, 2014
http://aircrap.org/schedule-january-25-2014-global-march-against-chemtrails/338667/
December 28, 2013 at 10:02 am
liberal jon
Kobayahi Maru? (Star Trek reference!)
Cut the electricity?
Thank you (sincere) for elucidating my thought – the demagoguery was my point and is my concern when fear of a collapse is used.
If your question implies put your faith in the private sector or the public sector – it’s a moot question. The answer is obviously both. If you are trying to point out both parties are missing the point – I don’t disagree with you. What I would say is join a party and change it from within. While you are doing that, you could also maybe make some changes that would allow for more than two parties.
I think my answer would be this – send someone to cut the electricity, have someone else fax the power company and have someone else start to petition the BOS. It’s going to take a team (ie a party or a movement organized over time) to solve our problems. AND, if we are not successful, we have to learn from our mistakes, and fix what went wrong so it will never happen again. We have the science, technology, and educational, institutional, and physical infrastructure to do this if we as a society wish too. It isn’t the time to give up.
Oh, then start some witch trials to get rid of the witches. KIDDING! That would be the conservative response. – but the individual witches would obviously have to be found, tried and sentenced.
One more thing – planetary collapse is by no means a sure thing – at least not in the next 300 to 500 years. Nature and human beings are both amazingly resilient. We will find life and possibly even a reason for being under the most trying of circumstances. Also, the right does have a point when they bring up the geologic time-frame extremes in climate. It’s a matter of our country (and others) have the capacity to observe, understand, and make decisions and policy based on reality.
December 28, 2013 at 10:36 am
Mitch
Jon,
Good and beautiful movie: http://www.chasingice.com/
We disagree about the likelihood of planetary collapse, at least if it is defined, as I define it, as a severe reduction in the quality of life of human beings due to an enormous increase in the difficulty of finding the resources necessary to live in a way that one considers comfortable.
Alas, unless we are living in a computer simulation, the physical realities are the physical realities, and inertia is part of reality. So no Kobayashi Maru solution — in which one cheats the simulator — exists. As in my trolley example, there is no good outcome. The best that can be hoped for is that more people rather than fewer will find a willingness to work to mitigate the damage. But at this point it is completely clear that the damage will not be stopped, just, at best, mitigated. And our political system has not demonstrated an ability to move seriously in the direction of mitigation, not since the public was sold on Reagan (an actor purchased by General Electric) over Carter (a centrist former nuclear sub commander propagandized as a wimp, who told us the truth about the challenges we faced, and admitted to being human).
December 28, 2013 at 10:52 am
Eric Kirk
Global March Against Chemtrails January 25, 2014
http://aircrap.org/schedule-january-25-2014-global-march-against-chemtrails/338667/
Yeah, I think I’m going to miss that one. As it turns out, there’s going to be another march at the same time, protesting Big Foot’s involvement with imprisoning aliens at Area 51.
December 28, 2013 at 11:01 am
Fred Mangels
Eric wrote, “…protesting Big Foot’s involvement with imprisoning aliens at Area 51.”
Finally something we can agree on! Can’t make the march, though.
December 28, 2013 at 11:24 am
liberal jon
This is the key to understanding politics imho. If you get this, you get “it”. “And our political system has not demonstrated an ability to move seriously in the direction of mitigation, not since the public was sold on Reagan (an actor purchased by General Electric) over Carter (a centrist former nuclear sub commander propagandized as a wimp, who told us the truth about the challenges we faced, and admitted to being human)”
Mitch – Yes, absolutely right. The challenge is still to defeat the false optimism sold by Reagan build on temporary fixes such as a severe and disastrous reduction in the top marginal tax rate and a concurrent increase in military spending in effect buying us a decade of glitter while putting us on a path of becoming a third-world nation of enormous inequality.
I became politically aware around 1980 so I get it. Yes, Carter with his solar panels, his 55 mile and hour speed limit and his metric system is a hero of mine – Reagan not so much. We’ve taken a step back, a huge step back, but there are reasons for optimism. Senator Warren is one, the democratization possible and occurring with the internet and smart phones are another. I’m hoping we can continue to take back the narrative.
If we do this time, we will have the good sense not to impose a fairness doctrine. The fairness doctrine worked great until it was removed, then the populace, believing the tabloid, faux-populist baloney of GE and other multinationals as sold by Reagan then Rush. To deal with this Republican populism the Democrats thought they had to triangulate at first to win as Clinton did – and we still are out of necessity (Romney’s health plan instead of single payer) – but I have to believe we are on a one-way track back to rationality.
The Reagan-Rush era was an accident of time based on a reaction to the counter culture AND the conversion of the South from a racist democratic stronghold to a racist Republican stronghold.
This is what I believe – we can be a factor of 10 times more energy efficient if we choose as a society to AND have the same of better quality of life. It just takes planning – sometimes that is public planning and that is not a bad thing. If we get there, we can live comfortably and economically mostly off of the power of the sun – it’s possible if not probable.
I remember when that movie came out – I never did see it. I’ll check it out. Thanks.
December 28, 2013 at 11:45 am
suzy blah blah
All systems that flourish based on dominion and enslavement of others shall be made to fully disappear from the face of creation . . .How do i propose this is going to happen when the majority of mankind are incapable of exercising dominion over their own individuality? For me, the solution has to be primarily spiritual and secondary the body politic. By spiritual i mean the acknowledgment that our connection to one another and the planet must be prioritized. “To make the world work for 100 percent of humanity in the shortest possible time through spontaneous co-operation without ecological offence or the disadvantage to anyone” –Buckmaster Fuller. This implies the dismantling of our entire socio-economic machinery. Can this be achieved when we are enslaved by old ideologies?
-you evaded Joe’s question about dominion of individuality. Anyone following an ideology is not an individual. They are “owned” by the ideology. Individuals are the alternative to ideology. So replacing old ideologies with new ideologies won’t be a basic enough change. The dilemma we’re in is itself caused by ideology (singular). That is the root of it. It’s not just old ideologies that are the problem, it’s all ideologies. When you say, “For me, the solution has to be primarily spiritual”, what do you mean by spiritual? Ideologies are not only the opposite of true spirituality, they are anti-spiritual. As long as people continue to follow ideologies we will continue as we are going with nothing changing but the deckchairs on the titanic.
Most people don’t understand or care about what it means to become an individual. An individual is someone who is undivided, eg, they have integrated the various parts of themselves. Most people never do this and their full potential is left unconscious. But the unconscious is active and alive. It won’t stand for being ignored. So what happens when people ignore the unc and don’t bring the cut off parts of themselves into consciousness? The unconscious contents get projected out into the world. This is the case with the vast majority, their projections, having been unresolved within, now exhibit that not-integrated situation in the outer world. And that’s what we’ve got. A world divided against itself. And not realizing that the divided world stems from a group projection most people are prime for being picked up by some ideology. And so it goes round and round never breaking the cycle.Nothing is spontaneous about ideology. Ie, Bucky’s “spontaneous co-operation” will not happen via ideology. The only way this will happen is through people individuating.
December 28, 2013 at 11:45 am
Just Watchin
You have to be smoking the really good stuff to hold Carter up as a shining example of success at ANYTHING. Pitiful.
December 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm
Eric Kirk
I would say that the Camp David Accord is something – a peace that’s held up for 3 and a half decades now. No other President has even come close to an accomplishment like that in the Middle East.
December 28, 2013 at 1:26 pm
HUUFC
Yep, Carter bought off the Egyptians with billions of dollars we don’t have,quid pro quo. And had to give Israel the same. Even though muslim military is no match for other countries.Israel just got tired of beating them. Of course he started the decline in the USA’s influence in the Middle East by giving the Shah of Iran safe haven in our country,that resulted in the take over of our embassy and the imprisonment of hostages for 444 days. Those wild and crazy muslims.
December 28, 2013 at 1:27 pm
Joe Blow
Suzy at December 28, 2013 at 11:45 am – I couldn’t have responded to Forest Queen better had I wanted, so I won’t. On the other hand, I am always amazed at how people can deconstruct what you say or write. Your comment, however, was right on.
What happens when you take an ideology as defined by a documented life’s example and make it your own – a practical and real life’s experience? I’ll tell you what you do, you “proof” it. So, how do you “proof” life? The same way you “proof” sourdough bread. You use your “starter” to mix with flour and water to make bread dough. You put it aside in a warm environment and wait so see if there is a change in the dough. You “proof” the dough. After a period, you look to see if the unseen ingredient in that “starter” has made a physical change in the body dough. If there is, then you beat the dough up some to see if it will rise the occasion, come to life again or resurrect itself. If it does, you beat it up some more and mold it into the shape and form that suits you and then give the dough the test of fire to see it is worth eating and perpetuating and sustaining life. To test out its fitness, you cut it up into pieces and offer a piece to everyone around you to try out. You might say this is the final “proofing.” Some will look you right in the eye and throw the piece on the ground, then step on it. Others will smell it then hand it back. But, still others will eat it. Some will love its taste and texture, others will ask for more and still others will share some of theirs with others.
Any ideology only becomes of value when “proofed.” And so it is with life. A person only becomes of value when they become practical and real, an individual. Such people will never vote for the corrupt, lawless, compromised, worthless opinion – a proven dead ideology. Like it or not the only people to survive this pending mess are the individuals.
December 28, 2013 at 1:40 pm
HUUFC
Of course the muslim terrorists in Iran had fun with the hostages, they even staged a mock execution for all remaining 52. They were rousted from from sleep, blindfolded, stripped naked, made to kneel on the floor, and then? It was a joke. The terrorists cocked their weapons and ejected shells onto the ground and then let the hostages get dressed and go back to bed. Muslim comedy, very funny to them. BTW, Carter is no longer the worst President in United States history the current occupant of the White House has taken that spot. Carter is safe at number 2.
December 28, 2013 at 4:05 pm
queenoftheforrest
Joe & suzy,
~looks like I did jump around Joe’s ‘individual’ question. Fortunate i have such an excellent back-up. Thanks again suzy. “When we are given correct information in an engaging fashion, we will stir.” i used to wonder what it was going to take that we’d rise together and gather our pitchforks and cythes to attend a town hall meeting. In better days we would have done that long before now.
53 pages! 53 pages! of Agenda 21, passed in December, at a Supes. meeting, without any public input (I’m guessing) –how does that NOT raise one’s blood temp? What in the hell are they thinking? Not about you and me, not about Humboldt. Bonds, and FED Funding, and Taxes = control and puts future generations in debt paying for their today’s greed and arrogance. The Supes. are FN we the people in every possible way. Maybe it’s like Eric’s and some of the other boy’s denial of chemtrails – don’t look and come to your own individual conclusion, just deny. Global genocide, so funny, makes me chuckle.
December 28, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Mitch
Jon,
The Reagan-Rush era is no accident. The 60s were the accident; the Reagan-Rush era is typical. That is probably the one significant disagreement we have. The post WWII situation in America was unique, where no matter how much we screwed up, we remained showered with gold because we were the only game in town. Returning veterans had saved the world, knew it, and had to be bought off by the plutocracy with the creation of a true middle class. The kids of those vets had enough material goods and idealism that they were able to spend time creating meaningful alternatives.
That party is over.
There continue to be periodic waves of idealism, a la Occupy Wall Street. That’s nice. It’s just not nearly enough, in a society where every ad exec knows how to co-opt any counterculture, and the cutting edge social statement is not voting.
December 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm
HUUFC
Mitch, what did the ocutards accomplish besides leaving feces behind?
December 28, 2013 at 5:09 pm
Mitch
Our local ones? Absolutely zip, except uniting people against them.
December 28, 2013 at 6:47 pm
queenoftheforrest
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetuate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
The DiCK wavers are back. Not much, if any, further than you guys were a year ago.
December 29, 2013 at 9:20 am
liberal jon
HUUFC muslim military is just as meaningless as christian military. And saying mm in this country would be just as wrong as calling the US or France part of a christian military. Who do you think would be using that terminology in the Middle East? Who do you think would use the equivalent of “wild and crazy christians”? I know for a fact that not all do. If we want to minimize the polarization world wide it is best to act and speak responsibly. If we do, who knows, we could minimize the conflicts going forward.
Mitch and HUUFC – unfair and wrong imho. Occupy members are still active in the community – one is here on SP and doing great, unrecognized work, another is with Eureka Working Wage folks, and I saw another at the early December GPU meeting. Occupy did great work. It may be polarizing, but nationally it helped change the dialog and locally I don’t think their work is done.
Mitch – you know of course we agree much more than disagree, I think most of our disagreement comes down to glass half full or half empty disagreements.
This is a thought I just had. Think of what women thought of this country’s @system@ pre 1918 and African Americans pre 1863 and pre 1965. Both still works in progress of course, but we are in the process of changing world history for the better. Same can be said for same-sex couples and the environmental movement.
The current problems are the biggest ones. Inequality and climate change (and species and habitat loss and over-development and over population, etc) require behavioral changes that are tough and we will have to overcome significant narratives to get there (ie the red scare narrative and the nanny state narrative – there are hundreds of them) But I think we can. Their is a problem, there isn’t enough water in the glass, but it’s still half full.
December 29, 2013 at 10:55 am
suzy blah blah
What happens when you take an ideology as defined by a documented life’s example and make it your own
-taking an ideological position presumes you have an accurate modal of reality. That you understand reality. Hello?!!! Anybody can see how ignorant that is. If the blind follow the blind both will fall. Joe, if you read what i said above you can see that i already answered your question: “Ideologies are not only the opposite of true spirituality, they are anti-spiritual”. In Christian terms –anti-christ. In psychological terms, anti-individual. In street terms, a suckers game. All and any ideology is toxic. Not on the face of what they propose, but in their inherent form. Ideology is a lie, it turns one away from your own living soul. The alternative? –real experience.
December 29, 2013 at 11:13 am
Mitch
Jon,
Simply, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I hope you are right, but I think you are wrong.
As for the local occupy movement, I don’t doubt that some individuals who became associated with it might be doing something useful independent of the “movement.” But if the Koch Brothers had hired an acting troupe to pretend to be “leftists” and alienate the public, they could not have done a better job than that done for free by the local ocutards, as HUUFC accurately called them. Just my opinion, as always.
December 29, 2013 at 11:55 am
liberal jon
Mitch! – not down personally with ocu*****, that’s me. Thing about occupy, was it was it’s message. You can’t separate those who are completely forgotten by the system from the movement and that was a large part of the problem with the optics. I see your point, and you may be right, but, such is life. I think if the movement picked up tomorrow I would be as supportive now as I was then. Occupy didn’t have a clear political objective or a way set up to achieve it. It was making a statement in a way that pushed the boundaries. I think the Occupy movement was more successful ,for example, than, what were they? The Seattle protests that also shared a similar message of angst against the @system@. What I appreciated about Occupy was the …occupying. It was there for the long term and it required commitment. I wasn’t as excited about the hand waving and all that as you might imagine. There was also a anarchic vibe that was largely gone by the time I arrived for the short periods I did. (I can’t say I was an active member, more like a tourist)
One other thought on the counterculture from a previous comment. I think our difference of opinion on that is probably a reflection of our age difference. I was a child of pre-hippie parents. My mother was in med school and having me when the movement was getting started.
My take is this. It was a mixed bag. There is a great deal that obviously came from the counter-culture of the sixties, but I am a little miffed that so many of them were so quiet during the eighties. I think the we vs me works well here and this is my simplistic narrative to help explain a HumCo culture I don’t know or understand. Many of the back-to-landers were focused on the “me” what can I do to live spiritually, in tune with nature, etc. That is important, in fact it’s critical, but it forgets the rest of society. It’s base philosophy has to be to each their own which won’t work in the end. We can’t run away from the rest of society, we have to be it and become it.
And to sbb’s point, it is still important to be an individual AND it is important to share your vision with the rest of the culture too. It’s not possible anymore to go to the ends of the earth to find peace and quiet unfortunately. There are too many of us and the last frontier was occupied about 150 years ago now. And I think there are still people alive in HumCo who remember when the resources were seeming limitless and it’s inhabitants endlessly regenerative. It may take another generation or two for the actual realities to sink in, but they will. (I hope.)
Sorry, had to ramble/rant – feel free to disregard – thanks for the back-and-forth.
December 29, 2013 at 12:06 pm
Mitch
Jon,
No, I don’t think the back-to-the-land movement’s base philosophy “ha[d] to be to each their own.” I confess my ignorance, but I’d always hoped it consisted in large part of people realizing that to solve large problems, they had to start with the small issues they could control, like how they lived, as opposed to how everyone else “should” live.
My father worked as a letter carrier and my mother worked as a secretary for the New York Public Library. He was to her left, but she ended her life in amazement that people were accepting what had happened to things.
I think Occupy Wall Street was (is?) a wonderful sign that people know something is wrong. In many of the encampments, you saw wonderful people doing wonderful things to unite their community within and without. Here, you saw a bunch of drunks, bums, and mentally ill people being coddled by our local, hopeless, left. I went once or twice — it was painful to watch. I keep thinking to myself how much worse things would be if the ocutards were actually in power, and how little self-awareness they must have if they think they would be better than what exists now.
December 29, 2013 at 12:30 pm
suzy blah blah
And to sbb’s point…
-what point, Jon?
December 29, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Just Watchin
This guy Kerrigan better hope he can hold the public’s attention better than he has on this thread. Only eleven days since his name was mentioned.
December 29, 2013 at 1:21 pm
liberal jon
Mitch – I’m ignorant on the subject to – those are meta observations that could be way off.
sbb – the individual primacy over the straw man “the collective”. or for my simplistic mind of dichotomies and slogans – we vs me.
December 29, 2013 at 1:27 pm
Anonymous
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who thinks it’s clever to attach “-tard” to the object of their derision has just announced to the world that they are lazy, immature, insensitive, and (ironically) not too bright themselves.
December 29, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Just Watchin
Agreed Anonymous. Given their tendency for leaving behind feces, they should be referred to as “occuturds”.
December 29, 2013 at 1:50 pm
HUUFC
You forgot “racist” LOL.
December 29, 2013 at 2:00 pm
suzy blah blah
-jon, show me where i made a point about “we vs me”. Here’s what i said:
-taking an ideological position presumes you have an accurate modal of reality. That you understand reality. Hello?!!! Anybody can see how ignorant that is. If the blind follow the blind both will fall. Joe, if you read what i said above you can see that i already answered your question: “Ideologies are not only the opposite of true spirituality, they are anti-spiritual”. In Christian terms –anti-christ. In psychological terms, anti-individual. In street terms, a suckers game. All and any ideology is toxic. Not on the face of what they propose, but in their inherent form. Ideology is a lie, it turns one away from your own living soul. The alternative? –real experience.
Furthermore, how is this a response to it? It’s not possible anymore to go to the ends of the earth to find peace and quiet unfortunately. There are too many of us and the last frontier was occupied about 150 years ago now.
Or this? And I think there are still people alive in HumCo who remember when the resources were seeming limitless and it’s inhabitants endlessly regenerative.
December 29, 2013 at 2:14 pm
Joe Blow
Suzy, when are you going to get the picture with jon? It is not about what you actually said. It is about what he says you said.
Which reminds me of something an old Republican crew boss I once worked with used tell us when he couldn’t get anywhere with a Democrat: “You see, you can’t reason with an idiot.”
December 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm
Just Watchin
Sbb…. Jon of Nazareth gets diarhhea of the keyboard, and starts typing stuff that only makes sense in his own mind….things that you really wouldn’t want to understand. Quantity over quality.
December 29, 2013 at 2:24 pm
liberal jon
Suzy, I was speaking in general, pattern stuff, I’m not involved in the parallel discussion. I peek, but it’s often not my territory especially right now.
December 29, 2013 at 2:44 pm
suzy blah blah
-he’s “speaking in general” LOL, “pattern stuff” Rof. A fucking liar is what you are, jon. Sbb’s point my ass.
Having diarhhea is one thing JW, but when he ocuturds suzy with it … shoooosh! What a mess!
Joe, you can’t reason with him, you can’t talk to him coherently, because there’s no one there (except maybe a sticker-lable until the wind blows it away).
December 29, 2013 at 2:46 pm
Joe Blow
Suzy, do you know of anyone that has done this? “What happens when you take an ideology as defined by a documented life’s example and make it your own.” Anyone that has defined an ideology by their documented life’s example?
Ideology is defined in part: 1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
December 29, 2013 at 3:58 pm
suzy blah blah
-love you Joe and i am no way trying to tell you how to live etc. But just trying to express my viewpoint. Okay,
As to a guide –if one is not moving, a guide won’t help you to get anywhere. What i mean is that spirit, or whatever it’s called, christ, the light, krishna, god, etc. is what gives movement and direction. Once you are going somewhere, have direction, are moved by spirit, pulled by a calling … only then can a maxim, or a collection of them, a doctrine or a myth, a belief, a wise person, a perfect person, and so forth, be useful –as a map to look at and maybe refer to if it shows symbols of places you recognize from experience, but not as a direction giving signpost. If i’m already going somewhere i don’t need a sign to tell me to go there. If one is initially moved, inspired, motivated, etc, by a map, or by an ideology, or a person that exemplifies an ideology –good luck and happy trails, but suzy doesn’t have time for that.
December 29, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Joe Blow
So you do know someone Suzy and that person is you. Nothing wrong with that. That was my question. Is it not what it means to “proof” individuality?
December 29, 2013 at 4:54 pm
suzy blah blah
-Joe 🙂
-and as for jon, he had diarrhea when responding to my imagined “points” and now he’s constipated when it comes to answering responses to that bs except to say that “in general” it was a response to an imagined point , that he, with no referenced links, claims i made that “we vs me” … meaningless box-score sputtering about imaginary beings but apparently that’s his wet fart of a reply. Initially he said:
“And to sbb’s point, it is still important to be an individual AND it is important to share your vision with the rest of the culture too.”
Reply to what? Where did i say otherwise? He goes on:
It’s not possible anymore to go to the ends of the earth to find peace and quiet unfortunately. There are too many of us and the last frontier was occupied about 150 years ago now.
What does that have to do with sbb’s imagined “point” anyway? Just pure babbling. And again in the same paragraph:
And I think there are still people alive in HumCo who remember when the resources were seeming limitless and it’s inhabitants endlessly regenerative. It may take another generation or two for the actual realities to sink in
Yet more babbling that he frames as a reply to some unknown obscure point that he later calls “me vs we “. With jon i think it’s a game of “he vs his imaginary phantoms.”
December 29, 2013 at 9:47 pm
Mitch
Anonymous 1:27,
You are right. I apologize.
December 30, 2013 at 10:38 am
HUUFC
Those wild and crazy muslims are hard at work again, practicing for the winter Olympics. Most people use skis and stuff like that. Just a suggestion.
December 30, 2013 at 12:46 pm
liberal jon
Not sure how this became your personal religion bashing thread HUUFC.
a) terrorism is a crime against humanity and should be treated as a crime.
b) we are not going to get anywhere by making this a clash civilizations. Your gratuitous humor leveled at an entire religion instead the few who abuse commit atrocities like this* in some twisted version of the religion demonstrates a great deal of ignorance in my opinion.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/30/russian-terror-attacks-could-be-chilling-prelude-to-olympic-violence/
March 2, 2014 at 9:54 am
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