FBI to Arab-American Student – “Don’t worry, you’re boring”

October 10, 2010 in Uncategorized | Tags: civil liberties, Fourth Amendment | by Eric Kirk

That GPS thing which doesn’t violate reasonable expectations of privacy (according to current law) and has found its way into two local DA debates is in the headlines again. A student found one on his car and the FBI showed up afterward.

The story.

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42 comments

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October 10, 2010 at 5:53 am

Anonymous

So what? He said he hadn’t done anythiing to arouse suspicion. How many people downplay or lie about criminal conduct, get real.

They could be interested in this guy because of his friends or relatives. Who knows if he called, or was called, by s suspected terrorist.

It’s not like they’re bugging his phone and listening to him have phone sex with his gf/bf.

Do you actually think these kinds of tactics won’t be used in a socialist government? The more socialist leaning the govmit the more these types of tactics will occur. Of course the more socialist govmit the more the devices will be used for political and not criminal issues.

Don’t know about you Eric but I don’t want to ever see another terrorist attact in American. I hpe the FBI keeps up the scrutiny.

October 10, 2010 at 7:54 am

Here’s the original Reddit.com discussion started by the guy’s friend asking people what the device was. People had some pretty inventive ideas about what to do with it.

October 10, 2010 at 9:04 am

Ernie's Place

The wise thing to have done, would have been to leave it in place, don’t say a word, don’t do anything suspicious until it disappeared. Don’t ever get the attention of the cops. You can’t beat city hall!

October 10, 2010 at 9:28 am

huufc

Arab or American? Which is it? I prefer American.Or United States Citizen. If he isnt American I prefer he goes back to an Arab country. Now.

October 10, 2010 at 9:58 am

Anonymous

I seem to be at odds with most of the others here. To me this whole thing seems to be just a small step away from a microchip installed at birth. There needs to be some checks and balances to police powers. A judges review at a minimum. It was very interesting to hear that Gallegos has no problem with warrentless peeping by cops. I too believe we need to protect ourselves from terrorism but I’m not so sure that it is ok for cops to be able to follow me around via satelite just cuz they feel like it.

October 10, 2010 at 3:38 pm

Anonymous

Thank goodness people don’t have to shed their ethnicity to appease the PC police such as huufc. “Arab-American” does not refer to two nationalities.

October 10, 2010 at 4:16 pm

the reasonable anonymous

“…I prefer he goes back to an Arab country. Now.”

And I prefer that bigoted morons would go live on Mars.

October 10, 2010 at 4:26 pm

mresquan

“And I prefer that bigoted morons would go live on Mars.”

Mars did nothing to deserve being inhabited by racists.

October 10, 2010 at 4:38 pm

the reasonable anonymous

Good point.

October 10, 2010 at 7:26 pm

moviedad

“They could be interested in this guy because of his friends or relatives.”
“…don’t say a word, don’t do anything suspicious,”
What the hell? Are these Americans talking? Freedom isn’t for pussies.

October 10, 2010 at 7:28 pm

Eric Kirk

It is odd. For decades we referenced “Italian Americans” and “Irish Americans” with no objections. But the minute we started applying terms to swarthier groups, we saw charges of “divisiveness” or cultural exclusivity.

It reminds me of a story one African American student told me about a college experience back in the 1070s. A group of black students sat at a table and the white students looked a them like they were doing something wrong. But nobody questioned the numerous all white tables surrounding them, nor did they invite any of the black students to their tables.

It’s a question of perspective.

October 10, 2010 at 10:33 pm

Cristina Bauss

The 1070’s? You look good, Eric!

October 11, 2010 at 7:38 am

Mitch

Italian Americans were considered pretty swarthy, back in the day. The arc of justice etc…

October 11, 2010 at 11:32 am

Ernie's Place

“What the hell? Are these Americans talking? Freedom isn’t for pussies”

A wise man doesn’t let others pick their fights for them. Neither would I run into an airplane propeller just because it was in my way. There is no way that a private citizen is going to win a fight with the F.B.I. and it’s only foolish to think they can. (Survival 101)
Signed: Pussy

October 11, 2010 at 11:45 am

Anonymous

Darryl Cherney and Judi Bari’s family would have something to say about that.

October 11, 2010 at 11:46 am

Mitch

M E M O

Fm: Ernie
To: George Washington, Tom Paine, Thomas Jefferson:
Re: Wisdom

A wise man doesn’t let others pick their fights for them. Neither would I run under the wheels of a carriage just because it was heading my way. There is no way that a private citizen is going to win a fight with His Majesty and it’s only foolish to think they can.

Signed: Pussy

October 11, 2010 at 11:52 am

anonymous

Bravo, Mitch and “Anon”!

October 11, 2010 at 11:54 am

Eric Kirk

I don’t know that I would “fight” them. I would remove the device, call them up, and tell them to come and pick it up. And then I would write an indignant letter to someone high in the FBI and cc it to my representatives and perhaps the media. But then I don’t do anything which would make me feel vulnerable

October 11, 2010 at 11:58 am

Mitch

Not true, Eric. You conducted a one man vigil. That’s my definition of doing something that would make one feel vulernable.

October 11, 2010 at 12:07 pm

Eric Kirk

Oh, I meant anything that would make me feel vulnerable for anything the FBI enforces. Vigiling isn’t illegal. Not yet anyway.

October 11, 2010 at 12:59 pm

Ernie's Place

Mitch
“Re: Wisdom”

The war for independence was a winnable war, a wise war, and a war, with almost universal support from the populace. A good example of a good decision. One man fighting the F.B.I. is stupid. Surely, you can see that?

We are close to being in another war to take back the country. What side are you on? Or are we all going to wait until all the jobs are gone.

Signed: Wise Pussy

October 11, 2010 at 1:11 pm

Mitch

Here I go with the damn links again:

Signed: Lazy

October 11, 2010 at 1:42 pm

Ernie's Place

So… Where is “Tank Man” today? There is a theory that he was shipped to the United States… As cat food!

He looked good while it lasted. I don’t object to acts of great bravery, as long as they also display great wisdom.

October 11, 2010 at 1:57 pm

Jim Buoy

The war for independence was a winnable war, a wise war, and a war, with almost universal support from the populace. EP @ 12:59

Most historians will tell you that only about one-third of the population supported the American revolutionary goal of independence. Another one-third were loyal to the Crown, (Tories). and, like today’s so called Independent voters, the rest were fence sitters.
As to how winnable the American Revolution was it lasted seven years with only a handful of actual American victories in the field. And, if you look at what the British were able to do in New York and South Carolina, if it wasn’t for the French aiding and augmenting the American forces, both on land and sea, it would not have been won at all.

October 11, 2010 at 2:04 pm

Mitch

There’s a great documentary called “Tank Man” that’s been uploaded to youtube in parts. (Thanks a lot, Ernie, for destroying my day’s productivity.)

The point is, “tank man” is inspirational, while “you can’t fight the system” is not. Tank Man has led to changes in the world’s societies that are literally unmeasurable. He is a timeless example of what’s unconquerable about the human spirit. I doubt he asked himself whether it made “sense” to stand in front of a column of tanks. I’m glad he didn’t ask himself that question.

At the moment he stood in front of those tanks, he pointed out to the world, in a language that we all understand, that we consider some things more important than ourselves — at least at our finest moments.

October 11, 2010 at 2:11 pm

anonymous

Good points, Jim Buoy!

October 11, 2010 at 2:32 pm

Ernie's Place

Jim and Mitch
You make some awfully good points. I’m not without a sense of idealism myself. I was inspired when I saw the Tank Man on TV. But, I also had a feeling of deep dread, knowing that we would probably never hear of him again. It was almost a remember the Alamo moment. Where people fought against insurmountable odds. In the case of the Alamo they probably had no choice but to fight or die anyway. I don’t know of many people that wouldn’t fight to stay alive.

I’ll chose my fights, you chose yours. I’ll give you a win on this fight and live to fight another day. (Wink)

October 11, 2010 at 5:13 pm

Joe Blow

Eric, Ernie carries on like he’s some sort of expert historian then write this:

The war for independence was a winnable war, a wise war, and a war, with almost universal support from the populace. A good example of a good decision. One man fighting the F.B.I. is stupid. Surely, you can see that?

Better go back and take another look. It wasn’t a winnable war. Like all wars there was never any certainty. Yeah, they won, but it wasn’t because they were better and more powerful.

I’ve heard this “survival 101” bullshit all my life. No way to defeat the bully. I think there’s a lesson coming to these gutless bastards that cry “pussy.” By the way, Ernie, when I decide to reveal my identity, the first thing I’m going to do is visit you personally and introduce myself. Then you can tell Dave Stancliff exactly who I am. Then we’ll see what your “survival 101” tells you.

October 11, 2010 at 5:32 pm

olmanriver

Ok fight’s over.
This is just a sidebar.

For the record, Jimmy Carter’s “Hornet’s Nest: A Novel of the Revolutionary War” is a historical novel set in the south during the R.War… great for information, not a good novel. It provides a good counterbalance to the New England-centric versions most of us are taught in school. As Jim stated, we were getting our asses kicked in the north and south, then there was an American win in North Carolina, then the English got entrapped on a peninsula and a huge French prescence showed up at Yorktown, war over. No French, no America. What the colonial troops did was endure a long losing war til the French turned the tide…

Carter’s book fills one in on the Southern front, and is particularly eye-opening when it came to how brutal Americans were to other Americans, families against families, seizing lands, burning each other out, it was a very divisive time…and our school taught history is highly sanitized.

Read it a few years ago, this is what I remembered.

October 11, 2010 at 10:04 pm

Eric Kirk

Part of the story was the decency of the tank driver as well, but I don’t know of any visual which is more powerful than that one. One tank would have been stunning, but the whole line? And each of them incapable of leaving the line.

October 11, 2010 at 10:17 pm

the reasonable anonymous

Tank Man captured the imagination of millions around the world and inspired many us with his simple but powerful act of civil disobedience. He did all this armed only with a couple of plastic grocery bags and a few minutes of walking and gesturing, which fortunately was caught on film. Pretty damned amazing, when you think about it.

October 11, 2010 at 11:16 pm

Ernie's Place

Sadly, we will probably never know who he was because China knows that the rest of the world would make a hero of him. I’m guessing that he was apprehended and dealt with off camera. What do you think happened to him?

October 12, 2010 at 7:25 am

Joe Blow

olmanriver, What fight? Ernie unable to speak for himself? Just a reminder, there is a way to defeat a bully. That is why I NEVER fight. I didn’t involve Ernie. He did that all himself. Why is it that it’s always okay for the thugs and bullies to say and do whatever they want, but when someone tries to defend themselves against them, they are the one in the wrong and always vilified?

Maybe the French had an indirect influence, but what changed things for America is when the the British decided NOT to spend the money necessary to finish the war. In other words, they cut their costs. It was alway all about money. Just like the so-called “war on terror” is about the looting of America, both in money and Constitutional liberties.

October 12, 2010 at 7:25 am

Mitch

Eric,

My guess is that the tank driver was following orders through the entire thing. To have run the guy over would have been a blunder the Chinese government would not have made. They knew there were cameras that would leak despite their best efforts.

I think if the tank driver had made the decision on his own, he would have become an ex-tank-driver very quickly.

October 12, 2010 at 10:38 am

Ernie's Place

Nothing makes a better argument than success.

One third of the population being for revolt is a large margin, especially when only one third was against. The undecided get caught-up in it whether they wanted to or not, chances are that most undecided were caught up on the side of independence. The Indians were a factor. The Colonists tried to convince them to stay out of it, but they were drawn in anyway. Some fought for the Brits and some fought for the Colonials. The net result was a bunch of Indians got killed. The French got drawn in, maybe the Colonist anticipated that. Ya’ think?

I think the framers of the revolution made a good bet on a gut feeling the Brits would roll over and give up. Apparently the Colonists were right… They won, we are free, and we can put the revolutionary war together any way we see fit. The constitution guarantees that. It’s just possible that the colonists were smarter than we give them credit. They did win in the end.

October 12, 2010 at 10:43 am

Ernie's Place

All that I read leads me to believe that Tank Man was executed 16 days later. The Chinese government denys that.

There are also rumors the the tank driver was executed. Not verifiable.

October 12, 2010 at 12:39 pm

Eric Kirk

It’s certainly plausible Ernie, since nobody has ever scored an interview with anyone claiming to be either. On the other hand, in light of what has happened since, both might have an interest in keeping a low profile.

October 12, 2010 at 12:42 pm

PlainJane

We would all like to believe we would be as courageous as tank man, but sadly the overwhelming majority would follow orders whether they were to get out of the way or run him over.

October 12, 2010 at 12:59 pm

Eric Kirk

Wikipedia has some interesting anecdotes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

October 12, 2010 at 5:07 pm

Jim Buoy

EP@10:38

Wow, Ernie, you must have lain awake all last night to come up with this narrative to make your earlier comment yesterday, re the American Revolution being a carefully thought out risk/reward decision, the correct one after all.

The French got drawn in, maybe the Colonist anticipated that. Ya’ think?

So, the Colonists were clairvoyant as well as clear headed clever strategists. No amount of what I say will appease you, obviously, but, since you find the subject matter so appealing you might want to read more about the American Revolution and in particular, how the French entered the war, unofficially and officially, on America’s behalf. Caution. It’s a bit more complex than “Ya’think.”

I think the framers of the revolution made a good bet on a gut feeling the Brits would roll over and give up.

Here we go with you “thinking” again. So, they figured the roll over would take, oh, only about seven year and two months- almost to the day? Guts roiled slower in those days, I suppose.

They won, we are free, and we can put the revolutionary war together any way we see fit.

Are we free, Ernie? Are we really, really, free?

Yup. To hell with history books and school and facts. Just make shit up as you go along. The end justifies any old interpretation of how it happened.

You should read Bruce Brady’s Seven Games article that Eric put up because you have single-handedly proven that the demise of a public school education is now complete – without a ball involved, no less.

October 12, 2010 at 7:52 pm

Ernie's Place

Jim,
Submitted respectfully.
Actually my comments went a little deeper than you give me credit for. So, who’s version of “history” do you ascribe to. The pabulum you read in U.S. history class in grade school? I think that if you study just a little longer you will find that may versions of history disagree with each other. I think that Columbus day is a great day to be discussing U.S. history.

School text books are highly focused on patriotic events, and great hero’s. I freely admit that I am no expert on U. S. history, the fact of the mater is, I only highlight most historical events, but I’ve been around long enough know that many tales of historical events disagree. Long enough to know that if you read Ray Raphael’s book; “Founding Myths”, or Howard Zinns book; “A people’s History”, you will find many stories differ from the “U.S. History” that we were raised with. Do you really believe that the revolutionary war started the way the history books tell us?

Raphael tells us that the revolutionary war started in the “populace” long before it was discussed by the eventual “leaders”. Is it possible that “your” war started much differently than you think?

“Raphael points out that during the Revolution, ideas and events were discussed and debated “in every tavern and meetinghouse in the land” – not just by the “key” leaders, but by all the people. Our historical narratives today, he says, should reflect the same enthusiastic participation by all our citizens – because, he concludes, “whoever controls the narrative controls history.”

“Many recent polls and surveys have shown that Americans, as a whole, know little about their own history, and that much of what they think they know is wrong. Ray Raphael, in Founding Myths: Stories That Hide Our Patriotic Past, not only corrects some mistaken assumptions about the American Revolutionary era; he also explains why we cling so tenaciously to our founding myths.”

Jim, do you know that “The midnight ride of Paul Revere” is a Myth?

I know enough about history that I’m not going to say anything is right, or anything is wrong. But, I will keep an open mind.

I still say that the war stared much differently than the history books tell us. And, I think that the idea of independence was much more popular than history tells us.

I agree that we are not really free, and our political system has high-jacked by the wealthy and powerful. But you will be hard pressed to convince me that the war of independence wasn’t a winnable war. Even given the odds.

Bruce Brady is a wonderful writer. But, you must have been in his class.

October 12, 2010 at 10:48 pm

Jim Buoy

Ernie, I only take offence at your idea that the results of historical events, like the American Revolution, are calculated by an intuition of the participants. As if nothing else would have made any difference. There were too many personalities involved and too numerous circumstances that were completely unknowable. The stars sometimes have to be in the proper alignment, so to speak.

While the supporters of the AR, both the common and the heralded, must have shared a conviction that what they were doing was winnable, none of them could have known that for sure. The weather, actions of others, and even luck play a role in all great events of history.
Did Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee have gut feelings about the Confederacy? Did General McArthur have a gut feeling about an end run landing at Inchon and was it the same gut telling him to push split forces all the way to the Yalu? The same gut feeling can produce different results.

I believe what this tread was about was standing up for something you believe in regardless of consequences. You want to add: Only if it has a good chance of being obtainable or winnable by dictum of common sense or instinct. What’s rational for you may not be what is right for another and vice versa.

Yes, I have read one of Raphael’s book, People’s History of the American Revolution , and while I realize he is a celebrated local, I take issue with one undocumented assertion he made in it regarding the existence of a draft as a means of conscription during the AR. He got his American wars mixed up. A sloppy thing to do if your reputation hangs on exacting research. His and Zinn’s books are populist history. While presenting the way people actually lived, breathed and thought in any era is essential to understanding why stuff happened, the personalities of the era’s leadership can never be abrogated by what some might refer to as the will of the mob. Even the Tea Party needs a Sarah Palin and a Glenn Beck for some continuity if it is to succeed in their, (and your?) quest to “take this country back”. Back to where I wonder?

I grew up with every bi-monthly copy of American Heritage magazine that featured historians like Bruce Catton, Geoffrey Ward, Henry Steele Commager, Fawn Brodie and Richard Ketchum. I still have them. I agree with you that school history books are not a good source for real knowledge, especially when their content is usually dictated by some board of education with an agenda. Unfortunately, in today’s political climate even Joe the Plumber can rival the legendary midnight ride of Paul Revere, which, btw, he only half completed before he was detained. Was that Raphael’s big scoop? If so, that’s been known for quite some time.

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FBI to Arab-American Student – “Don’t worry, you’re boring”

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