And most media framed the vote as totally political, Democrats v. Republicans with an eye towards the next election. Absent the current Republican candidate most would likely have passed the bill with as little thought as naming a rural road in Arkansas.
…..”All 49 Senate Republicans signed on to a statement released later Wednesday reiterating their support for the fertility treatments, saying they “strongly support continued nationwide access to IVF.”
Pretty sad state when the troll provides what seems to be a more accurate and current assessment with a quote but the guy on my side provides nothing, no context, no links, nothing.
Clearly if you vote for woman’s reproductive & health rights you vote Democrat & against Republicans, that’s not at issue, what is at issue is providing information fairly to allow what is so important to you Eric, critical reasoning.
It’s great to say you support something and then vote against its protection when your party is working to deprive access to it in multiple states the day after the Southern Baptist Convention declared embryos to be human life.
The Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too. If they are for IVF then they should be willing to protect it. Otherwise it’s just words.
It’s political because Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too.
Trollin – that bill would have allowed states to ban IVF by indirect means – in other words allow Republicans to act like they’re supporting IVF, but allowing the crazies in places like Alabama to deny it to residents there. They could have some facilities receiving federal funds which don’t offer reproductive health services at all, and then ban all reproductive health services from provide IVF. It’s a sham.
Once again, Jon demonstrates that he’s the perfect Democrat…for Republicans.
Collapses at the first whiff of gaslighting, eagerly self-flagellating as he credulously laps up the generic GOP trolling narrative du jour, then scolds his fellow Democrats for failing to be as gullible as he is.
Once again, Jon demonstrates that he’s the perfect Democrat…for Republicans.
I have no idea what Eric means and I still don’t. What bill did they vote against? Why is he only concerned about those with elections this year?
Also, why would I be a perfect Democrat for Republicans if I vote for Democrats? Shall I not criticize? Shall I not fight to make us better and extricate ourselves from meaningless bickering or Cultural war b.s. and focus on issues, and as Mitch would call it “education”?
I don’t watch MSNBC or know or care who the Meidas Touch guys are. I am awash in right wing propaganda because I find it fascinating and I want to learn who they are and most importantly how to persuade.
Access to abortion and the morals (religious right) and ethics (the rest of us) around it such as when life begins is OUR issue after Dobbs and should be garnering us at least 5 points in federal elections across the nation in perpetuity until federal protection for access to abortion is passed.
Our goal should be simple, to explain what voters are getting when they vote for us. If we want to point out hypocrisy then at the very least please provide links or an explanation because, as I said the troll did. Do better, that’s all, and if you don’t have the time, fine, just expect there shall be some windging from below. Also know you aren’t persuading anyone but instead simply serving up red meat. But maybe that’s the point, feeding the beast inside of us hungry to pass the blame to others.
One more question, why only Senators on this list, what about House Republicans?
Also, why this on the same day that SCOTUS unanimously gave the abortion pill the green light for now? A big and related victory (with unanimous conservative judicial support) the same day that I didn’t see or notice he covered.
The Supreme Court upheld recent F.D.A. guidelines for distributing a commonly used abortion pill by mail and telemedicine, finding that the plaintiffs did not have standing to sue.
I mean the answer seems simple enough to me, but I guess we assume everyone on our side understands.
“Yes we had a great reprieve today on SCOTUS, but we remain behind the 8 ball and we need the Senate to pass national legislation or at the very least protect ourselves from the crazies despite what they say.”
Also, Republicans seem to have the edge for the majority in the Senate and this is likely making Eric cranky and/or desperate.
I have no idea what Eric means and I still don’t.What bill did they vote against?
LOL at “I still don’t.” You could have googled the answer in seconds at any time. Try typing “Republican Senators vote against IVF” into your search bar. I did, and it took less than 10 seconds.
Instead you decided to assume and assert that the troll had provided a “more accurate and current assessment,” while not making the incredibly minimal effort it would have taken to get the information needed to make a comparison.
Unless you’re incapable of typing five words into a search bar, Eric didn’t deprive you of the opportunity to engage in “critical reasoning,” you simply passed up that opportunity in favor of endorsing the troll’s narrative, and whining about Eric not spoonfeeding you a link.
I just did anon, why those nine? All Republicans (minus Murkowski voted against it.)
And what do you know, JW’s quote brought up the same non-story.
And there is more, someone should tell Eric about this…
Another push related to reproductive rights fell short in the Senate last week, when Democrats tried to advance legislation protecting access to contraception, with most Republicans opposing the measure. The two votes come as part of an effort by Democrats to highlight reproductive rights this month, with an eye toward the November elections, which Republicans have criticized. But Schumer argues that the votes aren’t mere messaging votes, they show Americans who their senators are.
For Eric this was explicitly a vote, with a known outcome, to try to highlight politics rather than, you know, passing legislation. You know, after at least 7 years of this bs way of faux messaging through legislation about which team is better, how I feel about this. How about this, pass legislation, and if you can’t find allies that will vote with you, or else you know, we get the same old stagnant federalist bs coming from Washington.
What this is really about then is just like I said, the nationwide senate vote this November. Remember, we vote for only 1/3 of Senators each 2 years. My guess is that structurally we have a tough hill to climb and rather than explaining all that Eric & apparently all the Senate Dems would prefer to put on a show vote and cry hypocrisy.
Whatever, I’m not sure who you are persuading, but at least for myself, when I click on something I’d like there to be content and it’s disappointing that it comes from a troll, one btw in another thread you all are doing everything you can to point out the narrow focus of his Biden clips, which is true I’m sure for that one, but we all know what we see and what we are doing and why we are doing it.
A: nominating someone who is too old for this job and has an above average possibility of dying in office in the next 5 years, we are doing it because he didn’t step down as many hoped or expected, likely because no one believes Harris can do better, and we are risk adverse because of the stakes with people feeling like Trump is the end of the Republic.
It’s that kind of thinking that allows us to be likely to lose the Senate in 2025 and no, playing tricks to make Republicans seem like they are against IVF when they say they are for it won’t help.
What they are against, as Eric explains here, is Federalism, something a pro Democrat anon on here went toe to toe with me for a week or more years ago arguing that they too are federalists.
Trollin – that bill would have allowed states to ban IVF by indirect means – in other words allow Republicans to act like they’re supporting IVF, but allowing the crazies in places like Alabama to deny it to residents there. They could have some facilities receiving federal funds which don’t offer reproductive health services at all, and then ban all reproductive health services from provide IVF. It’s a sham.
This is what Ted Cruz said, is he wrong?
To the best of my knowledge, all 100 senators in this body support IVF
Because, that is the implication of Eric’s headline. Rather than make it about wether of not a Republican is lying, what Democrats can simply say is we support and will vote for legislation that will nationalize IVR protections, even in to use Eric’s words, the crazy places like Alabama. That’s what we could and should do, but I think you see the problem with that messaging anon. A: we can’t sell ourselves as big or better government, we can only sell ourselves as not Republican, the lying liars that they are.
“playing tricks to make Republicans seem like they are against IVF when they say they are for it.”
Tricks? LOL!…again, such an amazingly gullible mark for even the most transparent and absurd GOP spin.
When politicians say they’re for something, and then turn around and vote against it, most people rightly conclude that the actions speak much louder than the words. That’s not a “trick,” and there was no hidden poison pill or other subterfuge involved in this bill. The vote was not rigged, most Republicans simply don’t support IVF protections, so they voted against it.
Meanwhile, I find it bizarre that first you complain about Democrats holding a “show vote,” in the Senate, then conclude by saying what the Democrats should be doing is…
What Democrats can simply say is we support and will vote for legislation that will nationalize IVR protections, even in to use Eric’s words, the crazy places like Alabama. That’s what we could and should do, but I think you see the problem with that messaging anon. A: we can’t sell ourselves as big or better government
That’s literally what Senate Democrats just did — voted for legislation that would nationalize IVR protections! And Republican senators voted against it.
There’s nothing “tricky” about that, it just revealed the unfortunate reality of where these GOP senators actually stand, notwithstanding the obfuscatory spin that you so easily and predictably fell prey to.
Is Ted Cruz’s statement accurate when he says that all 100 senators “support IVF?” Maybe some hypothetical version IVF where no embryo is ever discarded. But that’s not the reality of IVF. So as it relates to the real world, no, it clearly is not accurate, and is in fact highly misleading.
It’s kind of hilarious that you seem offended by the notion that anyone would dare suggest, or even imply, that Ted Cruz might not be telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. What a shocker! Fetch the fainting couch and the smelling salts!
Imagine, for a moment, if Democrats in the Senate didn’t hold a vote on IVF protections.
Then what you’d have is Democrats saying that they support IVF protections, and Republicans like Cruz claiming that all Republicans do too — and yet no bill being voted on!
This would create an obvious question for Democratic leadership: Why on earth aren’t you taking a vote on national legislation to protect IVF, since everyone says they support it!?!?
Fast forward to: “Sure, it may be Republicans restricting IVF in the states, but Democrats in Congress could easily have prevented all of this by passing national protections, and they didn’t even bother to take a vote — even though all 100 senators support IVF !!!!!!!”
Yes, one reason to take votes, is to provide clarity as to who is actually blocking the adoption of a given policy. Failing to do so enables all manner of lying, misleading and obfuscating.
Imagine, for a moment, if Democrats in the Senate didn’t hold a vote on IVF protections.
I don’t know who you are talking about but it’s not me. I know who Republicans are, I vote against them every chance I get. We lost the House in 2022, we will not pass any meaningful legislation, not as far as I’m concerned, nothing significant to extricate ourselves from this ongoing Reagan era of limited government while we optimize & incentivize markets IF we hope to change behavior.
When it’s Democrats voting against legitimate & popular legislation then yes, I will be complaining if we don’t call the vote. You did get that part right.
That’s literally what Senate Democrats just did — voted for legislation that would nationalize IVR protections! And Republican senators voted against it.
Did you have any hope, any, that the legislation would pass? Of course not, for one we have gotten rid of the filibuster so need 51 votes, AND we don’t hold the House.
The rhetoric surrounding abortion is critical to Republicans and in vitro fertilization, with fertilized human eggs stored in a lab calls into question the entire right wing rhetoric behind abortions because it requires nuance when none is allowed. That is a line Republicans can’t cross. On the other hand, as humans, it’s very likely they support couples (especially the male half of heterosexual married couples) who can’t otherwise conceive.
What are we doing here? Are we pointing & shouting “hypocrite!”? Is that the goal, or is the goal passing IVR legislation. If it’s the latter, than pointing and shouting “hypocrite” is not how we win elections, the Republicans are better at us than that and they have a 24/7 story-telling infrastructure that we lack.
If Republicans are for IVF then they should vote to protect it. It’s not that complicated – except when you’re winking and nodding to extreme constituencies.
It’s amazing that you never tire of concocting new faux outrages to be mad at about, when there are so many real issues you could direct your attention to if you wished.
Republicans aren’t going to pass national IVF protections. To win on that policy, as on so many others, requires electing more Democrats. Electing more Democrats requires letting the voters know what the stakes are on a whole variety of issues, including IVF.
If you allow Republicans to falsely portray themselves as pro-IVF when they aren’t, by declining to hold any vote on the issue, that would conceal from voters what the stakes are on that issue. This, of course, is exactly what Republicans would have preferred — no clarifying vote that makes it harder for them to obfuscate their unpopular position.
This weird notion that it’s somehow a bad thing to require elected lawmakers to go on the record, is just plain silly.
democrats rally to protect babies that are a result of IVF, but when naturally conceived, they can’t wait to kill them in the womb. Quite the paradox……
I counted 7 seconds, and he might still be standing there if Barry hadn’t led him away. But you may have created a new game….”How long will magoo be a statue:…..
LOL, “sometimes the president stands still for a few seconds” is really the best the troll can come up with?
Gotta love it when they inadvertently reveal both how little material they have to work with, and how desperate they are to spin it into something it’s not.
At least the Beavis clip is kinda funny, though equally meaningless.
It’s amazing that you never tire of concocting new faux outrages to be mad at about, when there are so many real issues you could direct your attention to if you wished.
Republicans aren’t going to pass national IVF protections. To win on that policy, as on so many others, requires electing more Democrats. Electing more Democrats requires letting the voters know what the stakes are on a whole variety of issues, including IVF.
This is exactly right and exactly backwards. This thread is an example of a faux outrage. We are not angry at 9 Senators but the fact we can’t pass legislation. Yes that lies largely on Republicans, perhaps (or if you prefer, absolutely) entirely on this vote, but our inability to pass federal legislation, to trust & allow government to govern, falls on us too.
It’s not just Republicans who have upped the ante in the use of the filibuster, and there is a very smart anon who spend many a word with me explaining why federalism was important.
Another example of outrage (and I’m not using faux because I’m scared of the reaction, but I believe much of it is at the very least exaggerated) is Trump. We lose ourselves and our own agenda in our focus on him when the truth is it’s not Trump that is the problem, but our obstructionist friends on the other side of the aisle and all the highly produced and well choreographed smoke & mirrors they produce to maintain just enough voter interest on their side, or voter exhaustion or depression on ours to give themselves enough electoral juice to win when voters are dissatisfied with 2, 4, 6 or 8 years of the only alternative to their non-governing agenda.
What should we do? Focus, focus, focus on changing and improving government instead. IVR is really the perfect example because the truth is we all DO support it, except for a very few and given the actions of one or a few states it is deserving of federal legislation saying a big “f” you to state’s rights. Show me a Democrat in a purple district, or red for that matter that wants to have that discussion or even the discussion about how supporting IVR undermines much of the anti-abortion rhetoric without first establishing what turtle brought up; when, legally, in the United States of America, does life begin?
That’s really the question people would be interested in answering with their votes, not trying to decipher if 9 Republicans are lying or not because if you are a Democrat you already know they are. If you are a Democrat and you are trying to win votes based on only those 9, which represents only the next election, the your myopia has consumed you and the cost is figuring out how to make the changes we need to make in & for the long term.
Focus, be proud & intentional about your belief in government to change things for the better, even as those crying “states rights” or “freedom from federal tyranny” try to derail you. The pass the legislation when we have the chance and follow up on that.
But we do have to be consistent, intentional, stay clear of hypocrisy ourselves, try to find areas where we can act in good faith with Republicans and we have to elect Democrats that believe in the principle that we need the federal government to pass federal legislation and not simply depend on market forces or non-profits. It’s a slippery slope but it starts with obvious federal protects on something as universally accepted as IVR.
*slippery slope towards democratic socialism of course which is why so many Democrats, right now fear or disagree with. Because of this they know, either consciously or not, the best path is to continue fighting the culture wars and hope for the best despite decade after decade of Reaganesque results. It’s better than the democratic socialist alternative, which btw, probably includes antisemites.
I’ve tried to come up with a list like this before but I’d like to expand a little on what a change in the Democratic Party would look like, one that would have the focus on issues rather than the election cycle. It’s not a coincidence that this list has a lot of overlap with Sander’s strengths as a politician. Democrats should exude and promote …honesty, transparency, authenticity, “education” of the masses, a long-range plan and explanation of how we will get there, less focus on the other team and more focus on ourselves.
Also, when we finally get there we should be ready to act quickly even if SCOTUS will rule against us. This would be on the basic issues first which would be issues like protecting IVF, voting rights, and abortion and passing human and generous immigration laws and rules. More economically socialistic agendas should come but that is a good starting place.
Once we pass economically socialist policies, which would include things like a green new deal, free health insurance for all and other measures that would start changing the tide of our inequality, we are going to start changing minds with our good governance and that is going to be an up-hill battle for the other side to defend against.
But that is long term, but it is what it is going to take to get there and it is what I mean by “focus”. In case anyone was interested.
And the reason Democrats should start with the legislation suggested above (Voting rights etc) is not just b/c we are united on these but because of something I left off my list of what it means to focus on Democratic issues and that is centering empathy. There is no great way to distinguish us from Republicans and conservatives past and present.
Anon: That’s literally what Senate Democrats just did — voted for legislation that would nationalize IVR protections! And Republican senators voted against it.
Me: Did you have any hope, any, that the legislation would pass?
Did you anon? Did you have any hope this legislation would pass or was it a stunt, a stunt that Eric played right into and which allows Cruz to be more credible than we are because he is talking about his own beliefs.
Here’s an article about what is going on (UC or unanimous consent), an article which is much more honest, transparent & educational than the culture war partisan bs of Eric’s headline with 0 context & information.
This, below from Cruz, is true and it’s exactly what Eric did without giving necessary context. I should be the one cancelling you all for having to say what I’m about to say. Here, Ted Cruz is as honest, and arguably more honest than saying or implying that Republicans won’t allow IVF in their state.
(this comes from an article regarding the GOP nonsense IVR protection bill voted on the day before the (knowingly) doomed Democratic version.)
The request came a day ahead of the vote on the Democratic bill, authored by Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.). Republicans have widely panned the vote on the bill as a “show” vote, which follows similar votes on contraception and the border in recent weeks.
“Understand why the Democrats just did what they did,” Cruz said. “ Every Democrat on the ballot is going to tell the voters, ‘If you don’t vote for me, a Democrat, mean Republicans are going to come take away IVF.’ … This is all about running TV ads (edit: or blog posts)claiming Republicans are opposed to IVF.
It’s basically the Underpants Gnome Business Plan, only for politics.
STEP 1: Blather
STEP 2: ???
STEP 3: Glorious Socialist Future!
Isn’t it a better idea to try something different than…
STEP 1: Culture war back at Republicans
STEP 2: Most Democrats keep their seats year after year and we get to play the role of a party that is changing things. We’ll win 50% of Presidential elections and be in control of each house of Congress half the time too. (Arguably less than 50% of the time in the Senate going forward)
STEP 3: End-stage capitalism.
But kudos for your use of humor & tip of the hat to South Park
Thinking of Noam Chomsky today. I don’t know what happened yet but he is all over my timeline.
NOAM CHOMSKY: I didn’t do any research at all on Smith. I just read him. There’s no research. Just read it. He’s pre-capitalist, a figure of the Enlightenment. What we would call capitalism he despised. People read snippets of Adam Smith, the few phrases they teach in school. Everybody reads the first paragraph of The Wealth of Nations where he talks about how wonderful thedivision of labor is. But not many people get to the point hundreds of pages later, where he says that division of labor will destroy human beings and turn people into creatures as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human being to be.
And therefore in any civilized society the government is going to have to take some measures to prevent division of labor from proceeding to its limits.
What are steps one, two and three for our current brand of Democrats and how do we go about changing ourselves?
Cruz is upset because the fact that they took the vote means that some voters will learn the true fact that most Senate Republicans oppose national legislation protecting IVF.
There was nothing to stop any Republican Senators who may truly support protecting IVF, from simply voting to support the IVF protection bill — nothing other than their demonstrated preference for pandering to the anti-abortion extremists in the GOP.
But they’re having a big sad because they wanted to be able to say that they favor IVF, while actually opposing protections for IVF — and being forced to take a vote robbed them of the opportunity to have their cake and eat it too.
So it’s totally understandable that Cruz et al are mad that they were forced to go on the record and reveal their actual position on an issue that they’d much rather be able to fudge and spin and talk out of both sides of their mouth on.
What doesn’t make a bit of sense is this bizarre notion that it’s somehow the responsibility of Democrats to help Republicans hide their unpopular positions from the voters. It most certainly is not.
49 comments
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June 14, 2024 at 4:58 am
Anonymous
And most media framed the vote as totally political, Democrats v. Republicans with an eye towards the next election. Absent the current Republican candidate most would likely have passed the bill with as little thought as naming a rural road in Arkansas.
June 14, 2024 at 6:08 am
Just Trollin
Translation: “that’s not the question my handlers told me you were going to ask”…..
June 14, 2024 at 6:15 am
Just Trollin
Gaslighting for clicks. Kinda pathetic vang……
…..”All 49 Senate Republicans signed on to a statement released later Wednesday reiterating their support for the fertility treatments, saying they “strongly support continued nationwide access to IVF.”
June 14, 2024 at 6:23 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Pretty sad state when the troll provides what seems to be a more accurate and current assessment with a quote but the guy on my side provides nothing, no context, no links, nothing.
Clearly if you vote for woman’s reproductive & health rights you vote Democrat & against Republicans, that’s not at issue, what is at issue is providing information fairly to allow what is so important to you Eric, critical reasoning.
June 14, 2024 at 7:24 am
Eric Kirk
It’s great to say you support something and then vote against its protection when your party is working to deprive access to it in multiple states the day after the Southern Baptist Convention declared embryos to be human life.
The Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too. If they are for IVF then they should be willing to protect it. Otherwise it’s just words.
June 14, 2024 at 9:14 am
Just Trollin
Vang….you need to broaden your reading horizons……
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-ivf-bill-blocked-senate-patty-murray-democrat/
June 14, 2024 at 9:24 am
Eric Kirk
It’s political because Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too.
Trollin – that bill would have allowed states to ban IVF by indirect means – in other words allow Republicans to act like they’re supporting IVF, but allowing the crazies in places like Alabama to deny it to residents there. They could have some facilities receiving federal funds which don’t offer reproductive health services at all, and then ban all reproductive health services from provide IVF. It’s a sham.
June 14, 2024 at 9:41 am
Anonymous
Once again, Jon demonstrates that he’s the perfect Democrat…for Republicans.
Collapses at the first whiff of gaslighting, eagerly self-flagellating as he credulously laps up the generic GOP trolling narrative du jour, then scolds his fellow Democrats for failing to be as gullible as he is.
June 14, 2024 at 10:17 am
Just Trollin
Words of wit from the self flatulater herself…..
June 15, 2024 at 6:05 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Once again, Jon demonstrates that he’s the perfect Democrat…for Republicans.
I have no idea what Eric means and I still don’t. What bill did they vote against? Why is he only concerned about those with elections this year?
Also, why would I be a perfect Democrat for Republicans if I vote for Democrats? Shall I not criticize? Shall I not fight to make us better and extricate ourselves from meaningless bickering or Cultural war b.s. and focus on issues, and as Mitch would call it “education”?
I don’t watch MSNBC or know or care who the Meidas Touch guys are. I am awash in right wing propaganda because I find it fascinating and I want to learn who they are and most importantly how to persuade.
Access to abortion and the morals (religious right) and ethics (the rest of us) around it such as when life begins is OUR issue after Dobbs and should be garnering us at least 5 points in federal elections across the nation in perpetuity until federal protection for access to abortion is passed.
Our goal should be simple, to explain what voters are getting when they vote for us. If we want to point out hypocrisy then at the very least please provide links or an explanation because, as I said the troll did. Do better, that’s all, and if you don’t have the time, fine, just expect there shall be some windging from below. Also know you aren’t persuading anyone but instead simply serving up red meat. But maybe that’s the point, feeding the beast inside of us hungry to pass the blame to others.
June 15, 2024 at 6:28 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
One more question, why only Senators on this list, what about House Republicans?
Also, why this on the same day that SCOTUS unanimously gave the abortion pill the green light for now? A big and related victory (with unanimous conservative judicial support) the same day that I didn’t see or notice he covered.
The Supreme Court upheld recent F.D.A. guidelines for distributing a commonly used abortion pill by mail and telemedicine, finding that the plaintiffs did not have standing to sue.
I mean the answer seems simple enough to me, but I guess we assume everyone on our side understands.
“Yes we had a great reprieve today on SCOTUS, but we remain behind the 8 ball and we need the Senate to pass national legislation or at the very least protect ourselves from the crazies despite what they say.”
Also, Republicans seem to have the edge for the majority in the Senate and this is likely making Eric cranky and/or desperate.
June 15, 2024 at 6:35 am
Anonymous
I have no idea what Eric means and I still don’t. What bill did they vote against?
LOL at “I still don’t.” You could have googled the answer in seconds at any time. Try typing “Republican Senators vote against IVF” into your search bar. I did, and it took less than 10 seconds.
Instead you decided to assume and assert that the troll had provided a “more accurate and current assessment,” while not making the incredibly minimal effort it would have taken to get the information needed to make a comparison.
Unless you’re incapable of typing five words into a search bar, Eric didn’t deprive you of the opportunity to engage in “critical reasoning,” you simply passed up that opportunity in favor of endorsing the troll’s narrative, and whining about Eric not spoonfeeding you a link.
Such a clown.
June 15, 2024 at 1:47 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
I just did anon, why those nine? All Republicans (minus Murkowski voted against it.)
And what do you know, JW’s quote brought up the same non-story.
And there is more, someone should tell Eric about this…
Another push related to reproductive rights fell short in the Senate last week, when Democrats tried to advance legislation protecting access to contraception, with most Republicans opposing the measure. The two votes come as part of an effort by Democrats to highlight reproductive rights this month, with an eye toward the November elections, which Republicans have criticized. But Schumer argues that the votes aren’t mere messaging votes, they show Americans who their senators are.
For Eric this was explicitly a vote, with a known outcome, to try to highlight politics rather than, you know, passing legislation. You know, after at least 7 years of this bs way of faux messaging through legislation about which team is better, how I feel about this. How about this, pass legislation, and if you can’t find allies that will vote with you, or else you know, we get the same old stagnant federalist bs coming from Washington.
What this is really about then is just like I said, the nationwide senate vote this November. Remember, we vote for only 1/3 of Senators each 2 years. My guess is that structurally we have a tough hill to climb and rather than explaining all that Eric & apparently all the Senate Dems would prefer to put on a show vote and cry hypocrisy.
Whatever, I’m not sure who you are persuading, but at least for myself, when I click on something I’d like there to be content and it’s disappointing that it comes from a troll, one btw in another thread you all are doing everything you can to point out the narrow focus of his Biden clips, which is true I’m sure for that one, but we all know what we see and what we are doing and why we are doing it.
A: nominating someone who is too old for this job and has an above average possibility of dying in office in the next 5 years, we are doing it because he didn’t step down as many hoped or expected, likely because no one believes Harris can do better, and we are risk adverse because of the stakes with people feeling like Trump is the end of the Republic.
It’s that kind of thinking that allows us to be likely to lose the Senate in 2025 and no, playing tricks to make Republicans seem like they are against IVF when they say they are for it won’t help.
What they are against, as Eric explains here, is Federalism, something a pro Democrat anon on here went toe to toe with me for a week or more years ago arguing that they too are federalists.
Trollin – that bill would have allowed states to ban IVF by indirect means – in other words allow Republicans to act like they’re supporting IVF, but allowing the crazies in places like Alabama to deny it to residents there. They could have some facilities receiving federal funds which don’t offer reproductive health services at all, and then ban all reproductive health services from provide IVF. It’s a sham.
This is what Ted Cruz said, is he wrong?
To the best of my knowledge, all 100 senators in this body support IVF
Because, that is the implication of Eric’s headline. Rather than make it about wether of not a Republican is lying, what Democrats can simply say is we support and will vote for legislation that will nationalize IVR protections, even in to use Eric’s words, the crazy places like Alabama. That’s what we could and should do, but I think you see the problem with that messaging anon. A: we can’t sell ourselves as big or better government, we can only sell ourselves as not Republican, the lying liars that they are.
June 15, 2024 at 1:59 pm
Just Trollin
LOL……Little ole JT is practically running this little chat room. I think this thing would join the Herald without me…..
June 16, 2024 at 10:55 am
Anonymous
“playing tricks to make Republicans seem like they are against IVF when they say they are for it.”
Tricks? LOL!…again, such an amazingly gullible mark for even the most transparent and absurd GOP spin.
When politicians say they’re for something, and then turn around and vote against it, most people rightly conclude that the actions speak much louder than the words. That’s not a “trick,” and there was no hidden poison pill or other subterfuge involved in this bill. The vote was not rigged, most Republicans simply don’t support IVF protections, so they voted against it.
Meanwhile, I find it bizarre that first you complain about Democrats holding a “show vote,” in the Senate, then conclude by saying what the Democrats should be doing is…
What Democrats can simply say is we support and will vote for legislation that will nationalize IVR protections, even in to use Eric’s words, the crazy places like Alabama. That’s what we could and should do, but I think you see the problem with that messaging anon. A: we can’t sell ourselves as big or better government
That’s literally what Senate Democrats just did — voted for legislation that would nationalize IVR protections! And Republican senators voted against it.
There’s nothing “tricky” about that, it just revealed the unfortunate reality of where these GOP senators actually stand, notwithstanding the obfuscatory spin that you so easily and predictably fell prey to.
Is Ted Cruz’s statement accurate when he says that all 100 senators “support IVF?” Maybe some hypothetical version IVF where no embryo is ever discarded. But that’s not the reality of IVF. So as it relates to the real world, no, it clearly is not accurate, and is in fact highly misleading.
It’s kind of hilarious that you seem offended by the notion that anyone would dare suggest, or even imply, that Ted Cruz might not be telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. What a shocker! Fetch the fainting couch and the smelling salts!
June 16, 2024 at 11:00 am
Anonymous
What they are against, as Eric explains here, is Federalism.
Sure, and the civil war, and opposition to civil rights, was really just about states’ rights!
The gullibility level on display here is just off the charts.
June 16, 2024 at 12:37 pm
Jon Yalcinkaya
I’d love to meet you some day anon! Say “hi” sometime if our paths cross.
June 16, 2024 at 12:56 pm
Anonymous
Imagine, for a moment, if Democrats in the Senate didn’t hold a vote on IVF protections.
Then what you’d have is Democrats saying that they support IVF protections, and Republicans like Cruz claiming that all Republicans do too — and yet no bill being voted on!
This would create an obvious question for Democratic leadership: Why on earth aren’t you taking a vote on national legislation to protect IVF, since everyone says they support it!?!?
Fast forward to: “Sure, it may be Republicans restricting IVF in the states, but Democrats in Congress could easily have prevented all of this by passing national protections, and they didn’t even bother to take a vote — even though all 100 senators support IVF !!!!!!!”
Yes, one reason to take votes, is to provide clarity as to who is actually blocking the adoption of a given policy. Failing to do so enables all manner of lying, misleading and obfuscating.
June 16, 2024 at 3:57 pm
Just Trollin
This is actually sad. But I can’t wait for the debate…..
June 17, 2024 at 4:19 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Imagine, for a moment, if Democrats in the Senate didn’t hold a vote on IVF protections.
I don’t know who you are talking about but it’s not me. I know who Republicans are, I vote against them every chance I get. We lost the House in 2022, we will not pass any meaningful legislation, not as far as I’m concerned, nothing significant to extricate ourselves from this ongoing Reagan era of limited government while we optimize & incentivize markets IF we hope to change behavior.
When it’s Democrats voting against legitimate & popular legislation then yes, I will be complaining if we don’t call the vote. You did get that part right.
June 17, 2024 at 4:39 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
That’s literally what Senate Democrats just did — voted for legislation that would nationalize IVR protections! And Republican senators voted against it.
Did you have any hope, any, that the legislation would pass? Of course not, for one we have gotten rid of the filibuster so need 51 votes, AND we don’t hold the House.
The rhetoric surrounding abortion is critical to Republicans and in vitro fertilization, with fertilized human eggs stored in a lab calls into question the entire right wing rhetoric behind abortions because it requires nuance when none is allowed. That is a line Republicans can’t cross. On the other hand, as humans, it’s very likely they support couples (especially the male half of heterosexual married couples) who can’t otherwise conceive.
What are we doing here? Are we pointing & shouting “hypocrite!”? Is that the goal, or is the goal passing IVR legislation. If it’s the latter, than pointing and shouting “hypocrite” is not how we win elections, the Republicans are better at us than that and they have a 24/7 story-telling infrastructure that we lack.
June 17, 2024 at 2:55 pm
Eric Kirk
If Republicans are for IVF then they should vote to protect it. It’s not that complicated – except when you’re winking and nodding to extreme constituencies.
Trolling – another altered video?
June 17, 2024 at 3:10 pm
Just Trollin
vang….Newsweek’s version also altered?
June 17, 2024 at 3:17 pm
Anonymous
It’s amazing that you never tire of concocting new faux outrages to be mad at about, when there are so many real issues you could direct your attention to if you wished.
Republicans aren’t going to pass national IVF protections. To win on that policy, as on so many others, requires electing more Democrats. Electing more Democrats requires letting the voters know what the stakes are on a whole variety of issues, including IVF.
If you allow Republicans to falsely portray themselves as pro-IVF when they aren’t, by declining to hold any vote on the issue, that would conceal from voters what the stakes are on that issue. This, of course, is exactly what Republicans would have preferred — no clarifying vote that makes it harder for them to obfuscate their unpopular position.
This weird notion that it’s somehow a bad thing to require elected lawmakers to go on the record, is just plain silly.
June 17, 2024 at 3:36 pm
Just Trollin
Even hardcore leftwingers are waking up…..
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/opinion/progressives-california-portland.html
June 17, 2024 at 3:49 pm
Just Trollin
democrats rally to protect babies that are a result of IVF, but when naturally conceived, they can’t wait to kill them in the womb. Quite the paradox……
June 17, 2024 at 4:04 pm
humboldturtle
So, JT: When does Life begin?
June 17, 2024 at 4:12 pm
Just Trollin
Well turdle, according to the scientists, it’s at fertilization. And like doc fauchi said, you must believe the science…..
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/#:~:text=Biologists from 1%2C058 academic institutions,5577) affirmed the fertilization view.
June 17, 2024 at 4:26 pm
Just Trollin
couldn’t help but think of some chatroom regulars…..
June 17, 2024 at 5:33 pm
Anonymous
LOL, Biden stands still for literally 2 seconds — and somehow that’s supposed to means he “froze up?”
That’s just silly.
June 18, 2024 at 4:28 am
Just Trollin
I counted 7 seconds, and he might still be standing there if Barry hadn’t led him away. But you may have created a new game….”How long will magoo be a statue:…..
June 18, 2024 at 4:38 am
Just Trollin
First freeze, with his finger pointed, was approx. 10 seconds. Second was 17 seconds, which might be a magoo personal record……
June 18, 2024 at 4:43 am
Just Trollin
I forgot about this one……
June 18, 2024 at 5:05 am
Anonymous
LOL, “sometimes the president stands still for a few seconds” is really the best the troll can come up with?
Gotta love it when they inadvertently reveal both how little material they have to work with, and how desperate they are to spin it into something it’s not.
At least the Beavis clip is kinda funny, though equally meaningless.
June 18, 2024 at 5:17 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
It’s amazing that you never tire of concocting new faux outrages to be mad at about, when there are so many real issues you could direct your attention to if you wished.
Republicans aren’t going to pass national IVF protections. To win on that policy, as on so many others, requires electing more Democrats. Electing more Democrats requires letting the voters know what the stakes are on a whole variety of issues, including IVF.
This is exactly right and exactly backwards. This thread is an example of a faux outrage. We are not angry at 9 Senators but the fact we can’t pass legislation. Yes that lies largely on Republicans, perhaps (or if you prefer, absolutely) entirely on this vote, but our inability to pass federal legislation, to trust & allow government to govern, falls on us too.
It’s not just Republicans who have upped the ante in the use of the filibuster, and there is a very smart anon who spend many a word with me explaining why federalism was important.
Another example of outrage (and I’m not using faux because I’m scared of the reaction, but I believe much of it is at the very least exaggerated) is Trump. We lose ourselves and our own agenda in our focus on him when the truth is it’s not Trump that is the problem, but our obstructionist friends on the other side of the aisle and all the highly produced and well choreographed smoke & mirrors they produce to maintain just enough voter interest on their side, or voter exhaustion or depression on ours to give themselves enough electoral juice to win when voters are dissatisfied with 2, 4, 6 or 8 years of the only alternative to their non-governing agenda.
What should we do? Focus, focus, focus on changing and improving government instead. IVR is really the perfect example because the truth is we all DO support it, except for a very few and given the actions of one or a few states it is deserving of federal legislation saying a big “f” you to state’s rights. Show me a Democrat in a purple district, or red for that matter that wants to have that discussion or even the discussion about how supporting IVR undermines much of the anti-abortion rhetoric without first establishing what turtle brought up; when, legally, in the United States of America, does life begin?
That’s really the question people would be interested in answering with their votes, not trying to decipher if 9 Republicans are lying or not because if you are a Democrat you already know they are. If you are a Democrat and you are trying to win votes based on only those 9, which represents only the next election, the your myopia has consumed you and the cost is figuring out how to make the changes we need to make in & for the long term.
June 18, 2024 at 5:24 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Focus, be proud & intentional about your belief in government to change things for the better, even as those crying “states rights” or “freedom from federal tyranny” try to derail you. The pass the legislation when we have the chance and follow up on that.
But we do have to be consistent, intentional, stay clear of hypocrisy ourselves, try to find areas where we can act in good faith with Republicans and we have to elect Democrats that believe in the principle that we need the federal government to pass federal legislation and not simply depend on market forces or non-profits. It’s a slippery slope but it starts with obvious federal protects on something as universally accepted as IVR.
June 18, 2024 at 5:36 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
*slippery slope towards democratic socialism of course which is why so many Democrats, right now fear or disagree with. Because of this they know, either consciously or not, the best path is to continue fighting the culture wars and hope for the best despite decade after decade of Reaganesque results. It’s better than the democratic socialist alternative, which btw, probably includes antisemites.
June 18, 2024 at 5:40 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
”IVR” 😂 Sorry, that’s our call center phone number. IVR above should be IVF, in vitro fertilization.
June 18, 2024 at 7:21 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
I’ve tried to come up with a list like this before but I’d like to expand a little on what a change in the Democratic Party would look like, one that would have the focus on issues rather than the election cycle. It’s not a coincidence that this list has a lot of overlap with Sander’s strengths as a politician. Democrats should exude and promote …honesty, transparency, authenticity, “education” of the masses, a long-range plan and explanation of how we will get there, less focus on the other team and more focus on ourselves.
Also, when we finally get there we should be ready to act quickly even if SCOTUS will rule against us. This would be on the basic issues first which would be issues like protecting IVF, voting rights, and abortion and passing human and generous immigration laws and rules. More economically socialistic agendas should come but that is a good starting place.
Once we pass economically socialist policies, which would include things like a green new deal, free health insurance for all and other measures that would start changing the tide of our inequality, we are going to start changing minds with our good governance and that is going to be an up-hill battle for the other side to defend against.
But that is long term, but it is what it is going to take to get there and it is what I mean by “focus”. In case anyone was interested.
June 18, 2024 at 7:37 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
And the reason Democrats should start with the legislation suggested above (Voting rights etc) is not just b/c we are united on these but because of something I left off my list of what it means to focus on Democratic issues and that is centering empathy. There is no great way to distinguish us from Republicans and conservatives past and present.
June 18, 2024 at 9:55 am
Just Trollin
I suppose the up side of freezing is he can’t say stupid shit like this…..
June 18, 2024 at 5:07 pm
Anonymous
it is what it is going to take to get there and it is what I mean by “focus”.
Apparently we’re supposed to “focus” on vague generalities, wishful thinking and daydreaming.
It’s basically the Underpants Gnome Business Plan, only for politics.
STEP 1: Blather
STEP 2: ???
STEP 3: Glorious Socialist Future!
June 19, 2024 at 8:19 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Anon: That’s literally what Senate Democrats just did — voted for legislation that would nationalize IVR protections! And Republican senators voted against it.
Me: Did you have any hope, any, that the legislation would pass?
Did you anon? Did you have any hope this legislation would pass or was it a stunt, a stunt that Eric played right into and which allows Cruz to be more credible than we are because he is talking about his own beliefs.
Here’s an article about what is going on (UC or unanimous consent), an article which is much more honest, transparent & educational than the culture war partisan bs of Eric’s headline with 0 context & information.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/19/us/politics/senate-democrats-republicans-guns-ivf.html
June 19, 2024 at 8:37 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
This, below from Cruz, is true and it’s exactly what Eric did without giving necessary context. I should be the one cancelling you all for having to say what I’m about to say. Here, Ted Cruz is as honest, and arguably more honest than saying or implying that Republicans won’t allow IVF in their state.
(this comes from an article regarding the GOP nonsense IVR protection bill voted on the day before the (knowingly) doomed Democratic version.)
The request came a day ahead of the vote on the Democratic bill, authored by Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.). Republicans have widely panned the vote on the bill as a “show” vote, which follows similar votes on contraception and the border in recent weeks.
“Understand why the Democrats just did what they did,” Cruz said. “ Every Democrat on the ballot is going to tell the voters, ‘If you don’t vote for me, a Democrat, mean Republicans are going to come take away IVF.’ … This is all about running TV ads (edit: or blog posts)claiming Republicans are opposed to IVF.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/senate-democrats-block-gop-competing-205622098.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACDKHQBTl5SpUF2u1YUg-6JmB36P_nJus3NobqhxnanM0ApX_f2C__zBH6765XdTb81Lr_xNrx819cXEEfetuIy2d-SazF8oJcjtWELDtb7sHtWDBWW-nAvD5JDIgRzZ3UM4bTYgiy4FoRE2xEbW7oi6dPEUcC82gmufodX8YI8M
June 19, 2024 at 8:45 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
It’s basically the Underpants Gnome Business Plan, only for politics.
STEP 1: Blather
STEP 2: ???
STEP 3: Glorious Socialist Future!
Isn’t it a better idea to try something different than…
STEP 1: Culture war back at Republicans
STEP 2: Most Democrats keep their seats year after year and we get to play the role of a party that is changing things. We’ll win 50% of Presidential elections and be in control of each house of Congress half the time too. (Arguably less than 50% of the time in the Senate going forward)
STEP 3: End-stage capitalism.
But kudos for your use of humor & tip of the hat to South Park
June 19, 2024 at 9:23 am
Just Trollin
Nancy screwed up and explained how democrats operate….
June 19, 2024 at 10:20 am
Jon Yalcinkaya
Thinking of Noam Chomsky today. I don’t know what happened yet but he is all over my timeline.
NOAM CHOMSKY: I didn’t do any research at all on Smith. I just read him. There’s no research. Just read it. He’s pre-capitalist, a figure of the Enlightenment. What we would call capitalism he despised. People read snippets of Adam Smith, the few phrases they teach in school. Everybody reads the first paragraph of The Wealth of Nations where he talks about how wonderful the division of labor is. But not many people get to the point hundreds of pages later, where he says that division of labor will destroy human beings and turn people into creatures as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human being to be.
And therefore in any civilized society the government is going to have to take some measures to prevent division of labor from proceeding to its limits.
What are steps one, two and three for our current brand of Democrats and how do we go about changing ourselves?
https://chomsky.info/warfare02/#:~:text=And%20therefore%20in%20any%20civilized,will%20lead%20to%20perfect%20equality.
June 19, 2024 at 10:44 am
Just Trollin
Nailed it……
June 19, 2024 at 5:45 pm
Anonymous
Cruz is upset because the fact that they took the vote means that some voters will learn the true fact that most Senate Republicans oppose national legislation protecting IVF.
There was nothing to stop any Republican Senators who may truly support protecting IVF, from simply voting to support the IVF protection bill — nothing other than their demonstrated preference for pandering to the anti-abortion extremists in the GOP.
But they’re having a big sad because they wanted to be able to say that they favor IVF, while actually opposing protections for IVF — and being forced to take a vote robbed them of the opportunity to have their cake and eat it too.
So it’s totally understandable that Cruz et al are mad that they were forced to go on the record and reveal their actual position on an issue that they’d much rather be able to fudge and spin and talk out of both sides of their mouth on.
What doesn’t make a bit of sense is this bizarre notion that it’s somehow the responsibility of Democrats to help Republicans hide their unpopular positions from the voters. It most certainly is not.