We are NOT coming for your stupid guns. And you are NOT the real victims here.
End of note.
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December 15, 2012 at 3:53 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
In regards to the school shooting……as if all the other victims of guns get the same political wax jobs of support……as if the victims of mass murders are any more or less important than those other victims the government AND media shun because it ain’t as good a political tool story……as if the real problem is not mentally deranged psychopaths that government ostracized just so government could come back after-the-fact to blame an artificial consumer item “that just so happens to be a constitutional right” as compared to holding accountable the individual.
Guns are not the problem; rather, the problem exists inside one’s head that “directs the individual” to use whatever is easiest or available.
Ironic though that the same people who “speak-up” over this recent mass murder don’t speak-up when it is other children and adults dying at the hands of “so-called normal headed” Americans, often serving the government on foreign soils!
The United States of Hipocrits, that seems to fit the mold of the American mindset. Now, time to spend more taxpayers’ monies on ineffective security measures. Americans are just gonna spend, spend and spend with little to show for “supposed” effective results.
You want safety, then support population reduction by way of reduced birth rates that leads to less newborn babies. Ah, but the crux is that government would have to import more illegal aliens for tax revenue generation to pay off the debts created by past societies’ members.
Americans are in a huge financial hole that we will never get out off unless by way of war and theft (just like past history), period. – HOJ
December 16, 2012 at 12:11 am
Eric Kirk
No, see, guns are the problem, because there aren’t too many other methods which could kill 26 people in such a short amount of time.
December 16, 2012 at 2:09 am
anthony
One thing that is never looked at is the “Medication” these people are put on, or in some cases are withdrawing from. All the recent shootings have one thing in common, all the suspects are described as anti-social, awkward and otherwise “not normal”. Having been a teenager that grew up in America in the last twenty years, I was, along with almost everyone of my friends, at one point or another put on anti-depressants, SSRI, and other horrible drugs in the name of making me “happier”. I am sure that if I, a quite normal well adjusted mid twenties person, were put on “medication”, these people were almost definitely on quite a cocktail at one point or another. Being well adjusted and sane I know what kind of effect they had on me, I can only imagine what it was like for someone on larger doses or having their “medication” changed and adjusted might feel like. I know that I was left feeling angry, confused and suicidal after only being on them for a few weeks, feelings that were not me. I promptly threw them in the toilet after one sleepless night of bad thoughts. I have never felt those kinds of feeling again (after the withdraws). To blame guns for the actions of crazy people that are not right in the head is misguided. I do happen to be a supported of gun rights. While I personally value the right to own a gun, I do at the same time think there needs to be a very serious examination of the education surrounding guns. It is too easy to be in possession of firearms without the proper training or respect for the power of what you have in your hands. Although all the training in the world wont stop horrible shootings from happening, taking away all guns wont stop insane people from doing things that will shock the general public to its core and kill a lot of people in the process.
December 16, 2012 at 2:52 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Disagree Eric,
the mindset existed prior to the gun in hand scenario. Next thing, a machette, chemical warfare agents, formaldahydes in your water supply, etc….many ways to kill without guns too (immediate and prolonged). Guns do make a great media/political news stories though, especially when a school full of children (can’t help think about all those children on foreign soils getting hacked-up, limbs severed, brains blown-out the back of their heads, etc… by U.S. citizens. HOJ mourned for all of about ten minutes, then thought about all the other forgotten and never mentioned victims at the hands of the American Hipocrits!
Better take guns away from the military, police, etc… too, Eric. Afterall, fair is fair. If ya want guns out of the hands of murderers, then it is only jurisprudence to get rid of the abusers’ abilities to obtain weaponry, this includes government employees. Ah, but that can’t work when the government wants to have the “upper-hand” by way of “eliminations of constitutional rights” (like to own firearms) that coincidently can be used against the government in defense of the US Constitution. Weird, I know, allowing the people to defend their life against domestic invaders (government), especially those who are converted immigrants. – HOJ
December 16, 2012 at 6:15 am
unanonymous
blaming guns is like blaming your spoon for being fat
December 16, 2012 at 7:38 am
Dave Kirby
Having qualified expert with an assault rifle similar to the one used in this massacre I can tell you that there is but one purpose this type of weapon serves…killing humans. And anyone who says they have a right to own one is blowing smoke. This type of weapon is useless in home defense unless you don’t mind shooting up your neighbors house while stopping an intruder. I own several rifles and am not anti gun but large capacity military weapons in the hands of civilians need to go away.
December 16, 2012 at 8:14 am
moviedad
I couldn’t say it better than this commentator did:
exoevolution •
America’s 67 year quest for Empire is the ultimate culprit for the latest mass shooting. When you total up the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI, Homeland Security, the various endless wars, the 1000+ military bases around the world – America squanders ONE TRILLION dollars per year on death and destruction. However, the true cost of Empire is experienced far beyond the TRILLION$ wasted and lives maimed and lost. America’s very soul is rotting from within. Consumed by the greed, the insanity, the evil of Empire. Think about it. In the 21st century America in addition to killing men, women and “children” from the sky remotely with our flying robots – America is also openly acknowledging that we are “torturing” people. Empire always leads to immorality and disaster. America has not “won” a war since 1945. Empire is not about “winning”. Empire is about “spending”. Empire robs the citizens, the “children” of their futures. Empire gives us corporate greed, corporate owned politicians, corporate raping of the environment, a corporate nightmare world of hate, violence and psychopathy that “infects” all of humanity. Imagine a world where America spent ONE TRILLION dollars per year on solar energy, education, health-care, jobs, cured diseases, promoted “spirituality” instead of corporate zombie greed lust. The problem is not just the “guns”. American Empire is THE problem. America worships violence. America worships greed. America is addicted to “EMPIRE”. America spends TRILLION$ and TRILLION$ – decade after decade – on guns, on bombs, on ships, on jets, on soldiers, on bases, on the endless tools of killing. – How can this continue without costing America the further loss of its soul? How many more children must die? American children and children throughout the world – when will the killing end? When will we ever have a national discussion on the real cost of Empire? Why is the American “investment” in death and destruction given top priority? When will we as a people finally say – Enough of this madness!
And this along with Mr. Kirby’s intelligent comment. What would be the justification for having an RPG? Or a “Stinger” missile? The idea originally was to protect against a criminal government. So now that we have one, who is going to go to war with them? Do these nuts think their AR15, is any match against the USS Ronald Reagan? Don’t we all agree to change our government from within? And not attack our own?
“Secessionists” and Anti-American Militias, who strangely enough, get all their information from Fox News Corp. Are no more than traitors if they arm themselves against our own government, just because they perceive it as too “Liberal?”
December 16, 2012 at 8:36 am
Anonymous
Guns? I thought the problem was God is pissed-off at being banished from our classrooms.
December 16, 2012 at 9:56 am
bolithio
Thats too extreme. I agree that our empire is responsible for death, but its not senseless. And before you blow smoke yourself, consider it for a moment. Lets not call empire Good or Evil for this context. The majority of the trillion dollars spent on the empire serves specific purposes.
A single human being who decides to go on a killing spree is something else entirely.
Im not trying to argue that our empire is always good, or even ever good. But I dont think Americans are inherently evil, or bad, or whatever because of what occurs outside of their control. Why have none of use gone on killing rampages?
We could, and hopefully will use our resources for much ‘better’ objectives than our empire does now. I think we will. Empire is a phenomena that has been going on for thousands of years. It does not just turn off.
It is excruciatingly frustrating to be a modern human who knows the past 10,000 years of his species history – and can project into the future often knowing what the best course may be – yet you also know you will never experience Utopia because progress is slow. The changes we want dont occur in one or even two generations. Or at least they haven’t in the past. I consider that, and allow myself to be less depressed about our worlds ills, and focus on what positive things we are doing. Which are many.
December 16, 2012 at 11:37 am
moviedad
That’s a fair statement. But, I do believe “Empire” is, inherently evil. As is unregulated capitalism.
December 16, 2012 at 12:11 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Dave Kirby,
if you speak from experience, your lucky to only have ONE home invader. All Guns (automatic, semi-automatic, revolver, clips or single shot) KILL – its the reason guns are guns, to kill!
Now we all know many people like to “show off their guns” as opposed to actual killing, but there exists no differences in the constitution to suggest there are “differences with firearms”. Just an FYI that ya can’t vacuum all arguments pertaining to anti-gun positions. – HOJ
December 16, 2012 at 12:25 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Bolithio, your wrong about “control”:
[I dont think Americans are inherently evil, or bad, or whatever because of what occurs outside of their control. Why have none of use gone on killing rampages?]
Voters control their votes; voters vote for violence, death, murder, rape, molestation, child abuse, mental abuses, etc….
Voters are on the hook for everything they are connected to by their dumb ass votes….past, present and future, kinda like a Christmas Carrol.
Greed has already brought America down, it just has yet to reach full-effect!
Thank your local politicians as well whom LIE, CHEAT and THIEVE to cover-up for state government and federal government corruptiuons and frauds.
WHY? Three-headed conspiracies to dupe, rope-a-dope, ruse the voters.
These local backstabbers want their power too!
Voters are really “missing-out” on their opportunities to “make change for the better”.
Why?
Voters pander to popularities because voters want to be popular too.
Then, add into the mix that many of these “good folks who can make positive changes” have been ostracized and no longer vote.
So, what we have is a “tainted voting process” because more good people quit being part of a corrupt nation’s schemes.
Black Flag is “making more sense” each and every day the facts of this countrys’ abuses are exposed to the non-dummies.
As far as [Why have none of use gone on killing rampages?]
Answer: Who is “us”; then, consider “YET”? – HOJ
December 16, 2012 at 1:36 pm
moviedad
I have a couple of pistols and some rifles and a shotgun. So I am anything but “Anti-Gun,” I just don’t see why people need combat weaponry?
December 16, 2012 at 2:36 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
HOJ wants combat weaponry in case government fails, for starters! Just imagine 3,4,5 or more foreign nationals or even local white boys comin’ to really, really hurt you during a home invasion robbery; or, even try to kill you.
Now, if having the combat weaponry would have killed the three burglar/mace sprayers in Fortuna, then so be it (Bohn’s sons funeral, oh well), period. Let the victims decide the punishment in home invasions using the firearms of their choice.
Now, are we talking combat weaponry in “this connecticut school slaughter” because what was reported was two handguns and a .227 rifle (which ain’t really “reliable” for combat situations).
Actually, more “eye-opening” was the number of rounds the shooter had (telling us that he had lightweight firearms that could not do a whole lot of damage simultaneously, but had to be spent and reloaded, time and time again).
Had this guy had a “fully-auto firearm” no doubt the # of deaths would be greater. Yet again though, it is the illogical mindset by the eventual abuser to falsely vicitmize that creates the desire, dedication, determination and discipline to conjure-up “what tools to vicitmize will be used”. Since guns are and have been “mainstream” for centuries, it comes as no surprise that guns would be accused as the reason why 22 children are dead and 6-7 adults alongside in their deaths. The reality is that guns on their own accord don’t kill people…..PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE; and, to think American government and its employees, military, etc… uses less justifiablity to kill children than this shooter in Connecticutt did, ironic huh?
Do you know that “government decisions and actions” cause much of the mental disorders in our society, not genetics! Much of these psychopath outbursts have to do with politics, economics and that which leads to individual declines in those “social areas of life” because of being “messed-with” by those controlling politics and economics (especially at the local and state levels).
Think about the “true fall-out” created by a society run amuck! Killers are being emancipated daily by elected officials and their public employee actions….THINK ABOUT IT! Divisions are being built into the game……………- HOJ
December 16, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Left gamer
“No, see, guns are the problem, because there aren’t too many other methods which could kill 26 people in such a short amount of time.”
You can use gas and burn them out. Remember Waco Texas?
December 16, 2012 at 2:38 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Is .227 “a code”?
22 children, 7 adults….hmm? – HOJ
December 16, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Left gamer
How about using a Catholic parish to capture and rape innocent boys. Do they make a game for that?
December 16, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Dave Kirby
HOJ….Its very obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not a 227 its a 223. Same caliber as the AR and M16. From your looney statements in this thread and others pretty much define you as just another angry crank who thinks he has any real answers to anything. Get some meds before we’re reading about you in the paper.
December 16, 2012 at 5:02 pm
capdiamont
It was a .223 rifle. Yes there is some people saying we should be like Japan, which is strict, with most guns gone. That is unlikely to happen due to 2nd amendment, less authority compared to Japan for search and seizure, our love of freedom, and our rebel nature.
December 16, 2012 at 6:15 pm
Fred Mangels
“No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms.
The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”- Thomas Jefferson
December 16, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Plain Jane
Do you think Thomas Jefferson envisioned nuclear tyranny?
December 16, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Eric Kirk
I don’t know what kind of additional restrictionts i would advocate, if any. The gun show loophole closing sounds good, but I don’t know how many of the crazies are showing up to gun shows. They just walk into gun shops and buy them.
What I’m sick of hearing with each of these incidents is “it’s not the right time to have this discussion.” Fine then. Set a date.
December 16, 2012 at 10:49 pm
Ernie Branscomb
Eric
I know that you are the father of two young children and you are probably hurting like any responsible human being that cares for anyone would be. I just don’t feel that being reactionary against guns is going to help the situation. However, you are wrong; the time to talk about guns is now. Some people trust their safety to other people. Calling the cops will never be fast enough when someone invades your home and your family. That has been proven. I don’t see how, as a responsible father and human being, that you would not want to have a gun to protect your children and family.
I want people like yourself to be armed. I don’t fear that you would use a weapon carelessly nor do I think that you might flip out and kill a bunch of school children.
Practically every person in the middle east has an automatic weapon, yet their preferred choice of massacre is a vehicle bomb or a body-bomb.
A good case could be made for automatic weapons if our government should turn against us. It would be ludicrous to believe that they would use nukes on us. We haven’t used nukes against Al Qaeda, because nukes don’t work in a guerrilla war. A guerrilla war can not be won. A well armed citizenry could never be defeated.
If we are going to start passing feel-good and ridiculous laws, we should simply pass a law against being insane. That would solve the problem. Until they can regulate insanity I’m going the need my means of protection for my home myself and my family.
What would you do if your house was being broken into right now? Say four thuggy looking guys with guns?
December 17, 2012 at 1:03 am
Eric Kirk
Ernie – It’s possible that four thuggy guys might break into my home. It’s also possible that one of my kids could find a gun in my house and do something kids do. It’s also possible that a car could lose control and crash into my front room when kids are there. Or my heater could malfunction and kill us as we sleep. It’s possible that a meteor could hit my house
I tend not to live in fear of what might happen. I don’t have anything in my house that’s likely to be of interest to four thugs, so they would have to randomly select my house. I don’t grow marijuana, and any expensive jewelry is in a safe deposit box elsewhere. I’m much more likely to run into threats to my family when I leave the house, and I’m certainly not going to pack a gun wherever I go. And I have lots of neighbors who will respond to a commotion.
Yeah, it could happen, but it just seems like the purchase and possession of a gun is a fear-based reaction to a risk of a very low probability. I don’t live in that kind of fear.
And I certainly don’t want an assault weapon in my house – something I’d need to resist four armed men.
But you look at the thousands of handgun deaths in our country compared to the dozens in the next highest rate country, and it warrants a discussion that we haven’t had since Chuck gave his cold dead hands speech. The NRA is the largest, and probably the strongest, national lobby. Nobody wants to buck it.
December 17, 2012 at 8:01 am
Ernie Branscomb
“I don’t live in that kind of fear.”
That statement is a little incongruous with your rhetoric. Guns are not going to disappear any more than insanity. Thugs will ALWAYS have guns. The only people that will not have guns will be law abiding citizens.
I was raised in a society where every Jeep had a gun between the seats and every pick-up truck had a gun rack on the rear window. No rancher or logger ever went to work without a gun. My job on the ranch at 10 years old was to shoot ground squirrels. Most all boys got a 22 rifle for their birthday at some time when they were growing up. A rifle was a rite of passage.
We never had the murder problem that we now have. The united States has a societal problem, not a gun problem.. Guns are our only line of defense against outlaws.
I’m sorry, but I think that any “law” banning guns is foolish and ill advised.
.
December 17, 2012 at 8:14 am
bolithio
No rancher or logger ever went to work without a gun.
Which is funny because how likely is a lion going to attack you as you fall trees or drive a skidder? I guess a cowboy will shoot at coyotes and bobcats, but trust me, since we forced the grizzly into extinction there has been no need for a gun in the woods. I walk around by my self in the most remote places of this county without a gun and Ive never been threatened by any animal other than bees!
I support a ban on assault riffles and other ridiculous weapons. I own a gun and I dont see how such a ban would infringe on my rights.
December 17, 2012 at 9:12 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Dave Kirby,
I do understand what I speak of, but can’t be blamed for MEDIA FAULTS –. Ya see DAVE “The vacuum cleaner” Kirby, it is MEDIA whom keeps changing the story people comment upon (like HOJ implied about how media will “milk this incident” for all the money it is worth!).
Dave, your resorting to “meds” shows your the loon whom has to delve into non-sensical “health attacks” because your arguments are based upon knowing information that has JUST BEEN “updated as amended”?
Wow, your special to be able to “attack using old, inaccurate media news”.
Now, go back to your widdle wabbit hole.
Wait for the next update that will change in order to foster illogical socio-political reasonings for gun control. – HOJ
December 17, 2012 at 9:20 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
[I don’t know what kind of additional restrictionts i would advocate, if any. The gun show loophole closing sounds good, but I don’t know how many of the crazies are showing up to gun shows. They just walk into gun shops and buy them.]
Response: Why are we talking gun shows again when the killer stole the weapons. Media making money, that is why!!!!!
It seems the larger argument is “what to do about legal gun owners whom allow others to have the ability to thieve the legal guns for an illegal purpose…….funny how BLOOMBERG REACTS (duopolist wolf posing as an independent hiding behind sheeps wool – screw Bloomberg, he is a social treasonist –> next thing, he’ll want limitations on human breast milk quantities because of the acid rain that drops out of New York’s skyline….).
Shell count = Media 2, society zippo
Media 2 = Free speech (uncensored), gun rights (restricted)
Let us see how much more MEDIA tries to have an orgy with government duopolists and their woolen sheep clothing wearers like BLOOMBERG THE TRAITOR!
December 17, 2012 at 10:08 am
Eric Kirk
Yeah, Ernie, I disagree. Of course people will always get guns if they really want them. That’s not the point. The point is that since that since the 1970s guns have proliferated all over the streets. Gangs used to fight with switch blades and zip guns, which was bad enough. Now every kid with a hand big enough to hold one has a gun. There are stories about boxes of guns getting to the streets unopened after they left the manufacturer, and you can’t convince me at this point that the gun companies haven’t stepped up production to meet a huge illegal demand. I’m sure they follow all the laws – just placing orders in their view. But the results are pretty clear.
Now that probably doesn’t account for the crazy situations like this past week, but I think we’re reaching a threshold point where we should no longer punt the discussion down the road because the NRA has a lot of money to throw around. It’s been noticed that they are radio silent on the social media this time around, probably because there’s a groundswell at this time which demands that we not simply chalk it up as a “social problem” anymore and to address at least the possibility of a policy approach. Our “social problems” aren’t much worse than all the other countries’, probably not as bad in some cases. What separates us from those countries is law.
John Oliver said, and I’m paraphrasing, that we had one failed shoe bombing attempt and now we all have to take off our shoes at the airports 10 years later, but since Columbine we’ve had 31 school shooting death incidents and not one change in policy. Maybe government is bad and we need total freedom to own whatever weapon we want, and maybe that’s the conclusion we would come to. But we have to have the discussion.
December 17, 2012 at 11:32 am
Ernie's Place
Eric
We live in a sick society. It is more of a “United States problem” than a world problem. In some countries of the world all able bodied and minded males are issued a weapon and trained in it’s use. These countries have next to no violent crime rates.
Bolitio,
We used to target shoot at lunch. We used to have turkey shoots on weekends. During deer season we would hunt. Squirrels were always fair game, ranchers depended on squirrel hunters to keep the population in check. Now, there is so much rat and varmint poison around that we don’t see any ground squirrels anymore. There used to be thousands of them. How is poison an improvement? Guns were a part of our society before the 1970′s.
The government passed a law against marijuana… how’s that working out for you?
I understand everybody’s frustration with guns. All of the guns that are out there that are in the wrong hands is the problem. Why is anyone allowed to be insane and own a gun? There are laws against that. Why aren’t they enforced? I would be in lockstep with taking guns away from people that should not have them. Why are all of you people ranting at me for wanting a way to protect myself? Why isn’t there universal outrage at allowing criminals and crazies to have guns. Show me that gun laws that we already have can be enforced, then come talk to me about my gun.
Sadly, the NRA doesn’t need to say anything. This conversation has probably doubled their donations.
December 17, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Anonymous
Ernie, did you do all that hunting with a Glock, or a .223 Bushmaster? The problem is military weapons. They should not be a part of our society.
December 17, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Not A Native
Insane people shouldn’t be allowed to have guns. You’d have to be insane to think having a gun in your home is a safe and prudent decision.
December 17, 2012 at 5:12 pm
bolithio
Squirrels were always fair game, ranchers depended on squirrel hunters to keep the population in check. Now, there is so much rat and varmint poison around that we don’t see any ground squirrels anymore. There used to be thousands of them.
Ernie – first off, I get it. Working in the woods I am very used to guns. I used to take grandpas pistol with me, and like you I would shoot cans after work. Cant hunt at work though…that would get me fired! lol.
Still most people who carry guns claim they do so out of self defense. After a few years of claiming the same thing myself, I finally realized that it was for ‘piece of mind’ not defense. What, shoot a snake? It wasn’t going to bother me if I just walked by… Shoot a bear? Really? It wasn’t going to hurt me. No I don’t need a gun in the woods. If I need anything to guarantee my survival it is a method for starting a fire and finding clean water.
Now to squirrels. If only ranchers could have taken college wildlife biology courses. They would have learned that shooting them does nothing to the overall population at first, they re-fill their niche. Yet overtime, this practice removes the best genes from the population with leads to weaker individuals who dont deal with predation and disease as well. What happened to the squirrels you speak of? The porcupines? The fishers? Did hunters consider the effect trophy hunting would have on the long term population?
December 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Ernie's Place
I no longer hunt. I’ve grown far too soft hearted, and I never enjoyed It. Hunting was a necessity at one, time but no longer. I could hunt for food if it was for survival.
I’m not saying that you can’t have an accident with a gun, but the same could be said about driving a car, crossing the street, or any number of risks that we accept every day.
Just about everything wrong with our country is societal.
December 17, 2012 at 9:02 pm
gunsand
Why doesn’t anybody take a look at whether these guys who do this have been on “medication”? There have been slaughters like this in the past when people who knew the shooter commented that “he hadn’t been taking his medication.”
The implication is that the person was a crazy killer before he started taking medication to make him all normal, but I think there is more to it than that.
I agree with Anthony who commented above. It is alarming that such comments are ignored. The gun lobby and the pharmaceutical lobby are two of the most powerful, no? So pay no attention to people like Anthony who have first hand experience, but don’t get any press.
Don’t you remember Halcyon? That was the pharmaceutical flavor of the year back in the early 80′s. Then lots and lots of people on it killed themselves and it was quietly withdrawn off the market with nothing ever being said about it.
December 17, 2012 at 9:05 pm
gunsand
Oh, I forgot. This is America.
Don’t mess with my sacred guns or my sacred drugs.
December 18, 2012 at 10:02 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Guns,
……..and don’t ask the government types to curb the video game violence that has erupted over the past few decades because now your just fracken with us over free market profits and tax revenues collected on such video games from those mega company profits. Sex, drugs, Rock and Roll and NOW VIOLENCE!
Fiscal cliff, ba humbug, seek the greed that which causes disorderly deaths! ( at least CALPERS decided to pull its investments in a firm that specializes in investing in video game companies –> afterall, teachers affirming investments that kill teachers…that would be lameoid and double standards, not to mention evil).
Parents allow their children to learn hatred, how to kill and enjoy it, how to rape and enjoy it, etc…. So, parents should be accountable for their “fostering actions that screws the good members of society over! Time for a war on parents.
More people from the unchecked population explosion also equates to more terrible parenting, as if school bond measures and other public policy matters dependable upon monetary resources will resolve these NOT SO LITTLE, but far from discussed social matters”.
Parents are more failures than ever before, think-about-it; and, the government structures do almost ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO FOSTER TERRIBLE PARENTING for the social programatic flaws that bureacrats thieve money for by way of “The System”! Just think how many parents could do a better job of parenting IF they had the money (or lower costs) to free-up their time to actually SPEND IT with their children. Afterall, multiple jobs, societal stresses, etc… makes it much harder to be a parent, but parents must accept responsibility for their actions to create lives that are affected one way or another by the 18 years+ of actions and results oriented to those direct connections created by the parent/child relationship.
Much rather be amenable to dope growing parents whom actually raise their kids properly than a non dope-smoker parent whom allows their children to play these violent video games teaching children it is acceptible to kill, rape, molest, thieve, beat-up, harass, bully, etc…..
Social Priorities
ARE
all fracked-up
PARTLY BECAUSE OF
STUPID AMERICAN PARENTS WHOM FOSTER VIOLENCE!
Wondering if the mother (teacher) of the shooter allowed her murdering son to play video games? – HOJ
December 18, 2012 at 10:53 am
Olivia
I say ban all guns that aren’t used for hunting and those shouldn’t be semiautomatic. If you need to defend your home (which is unlikely) that’s sufficient. Americans live in a paranoid world primarily created by the NRA & Fox “news”. I once saw a statistic that for every 1200 people who defended themselves sucessfully with their guns, 12000 were killed with their own guns. Not worth it.
December 18, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Dave Kirby
hoj….are you yelling or is your caps lock stuck?
December 18, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Dave Kirby
There have been reports the the shooter’s mom had a small arsenal and that she taught the kid to shoot. Does that change the dynamic?
December 18, 2012 at 7:47 pm
Eric Kirk
There’s another stat of interest. Half the women who are killed with guns are killed by someone she knows.
December 18, 2012 at 11:21 pm
spyrock
of course this was all obama’s fault for telling the republicans that he was going to raise taxes on everyone making more than $250,000. this mother was getting $25,000 a month alimony and fearing a loss of income she decided to outsource her son to a mental institution before he turned 21 when he was supposedly going to get a new car for his birthday among other things. because his mother loved that school and spent a lot of time volunteering there, the son figured that she loved those little kids more than she loved him and he was probably right about that. because the mother had 4 automatic weapons including several handguns laying around the house, this upset young lad already had access to everything he needed to protect himself from being instituitionalized. putting their kids in mental institutions whenever they become a problem is very commonplace among wealthy american families. so obama has already raised this tax limit offer to $400,000 and baynerd wants it set a million. or else. it’s probably a good idea to stay away from kindergartens and preschools for awhile.
December 18, 2012 at 11:42 pm
spyrock
we can solve this problem by legalizing pot and setting all the political pot prisoners free creating a lot of vacancys in the prison system which can then be filled by anyone violating the new tough gun laws. you wouldn’t let just anyone drive a car without first getting a license and passing a driving and written test, the same reasoning should apply to guns. all illegal guns and automatic weapons should be confiscated and sold to responsible licensed gun owners and the proceeds should go to the victims or their survivors of violent crimes. the responsible gun owner can have all the guns he wants, if he qualifies, maybe even a scud missle, just in case the taliban decides to invade his home.
December 19, 2012 at 8:28 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Dave Kirby,
Caps are used often for “blind mice, that being of men”. In fact, legalese uses include caps to “make very clear a point”.
Funny how dishonest American citizens remark after they can’t argue a point, but must write something meaningless.
If HOJ used BOLD, what is that called Dave, extra yelling? Too funny Dave, your a funny guy. How funny is Dave? Just ask the “Goodfellas” with guns! – HOJ
December 19, 2012 at 8:48 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Olivia,
paranoia? Seems as if you “miss-labeled” whom suffers from paranoia.
Why would paranoid anti-gun advocates not mention once that the guns used in this haneous act were stolen from the teacher mommy whom legally purchased the firearms?
Yes, media and anti-gun advocates once again argue “different points” that are not connected to “the shooting”, milking the cows teets for all the media profits and political alignments the media can muster.
It is easy to make any claims, but hard to only use the direct evidence, apparantly.
Media now wants to go back to the 1700′s to argue that the constitution only allowed for Muskets (single shot firearms); yet, even back then, citizens wanted multiple shot firearms.
If guns are to be attacked by the anti-gun mongors, then maybe they should start with “play guns that shoot multiple rounds that maim and kill”. Afterall, it is poor parenting that fosters a child’s desire to shoot a gun irresponsibly or dangerously.
Media and the military LOVE video games too!
Personally, HOJ wants fully automatic Assault Rifles so that when firearms are now called “laser guns”, HOJ wants to be able to equal the “playing field”. Also, those darned aliens that have more advanced technologies….gonna need rapid fire weapons just to keep-up with a better technology. Heck, even when government used single shot muskets, they were no more advanced in technology than the citizenry.
See how in today’s duopoly those whom are politcal cronies or easily gullible want government to have all the weaponry advantage without the citzens being able to “equally protect themselves”.
This event is actually going to strengthen the NRA, not diminish it! The anti-gun types are only helping by arguing their false points. Part of the police state is to imprison those whom represent “opposing arguments on social issues”. How? Local governments have secrets as to how they set-up the citizen base with cronie processes that imprison. Sheriff’s departments that hide their policies or make them-up on the spot as they go……., elected officials using code enforcements unjustifiably, complaint processes that are “gerry-rigged” and covered-up, executive order power used at every level of government to circumvent the law, etc….
Good to know a child can be raised in a house full of marijuana, but yet it takes a teacher mom to allow her son to live in a windowless basement full of teacher mommy’s legally purchased weapons to foster her child into a “natural born killer”. The arguments by victims are also baseless in some instances and respects! Why? Losing a loved one makes a person not rational minded, but very greedy! – HOJ
December 19, 2012 at 8:52 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Erik,
how many of the women you cite are “street tramps whoring out their vaginas”? – HOJ
December 19, 2012 at 8:54 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Teachers don’t always make the best parents either! Many children of teachers are neglected and feel that their parents “care more about the school kids than their own son or daughter”. This claim is decades old, but under-discussed. —> Nod to Spyrock! – HOJ
December 19, 2012 at 11:29 am
bolithio
Who cares what the constitution said 300 years ago. Many of the founding fathers ‘envisioned’ things that are no longer appropriate (think subjugated females and colored skins).
It is entirely up to the gun owners and advocates to convince us that the masses should be able to own battlefield weapons. I have yet to hear one single convincing argument as to why having such weapons is a good idea for our society.
December 19, 2012 at 12:28 pm
Unk John
I suppose this is as good a time as any to jump in. I have been watching this with interest, of course. I guess the straw that broke the camel’s back was the incredibly insensitive remark by hoj in response to Eric.
You (hoj) seem far too cynical and set in your beliefs to warrant much of my time. It seems you may not want to hear anything that anyone here presents in opposition to what you think under any circumstances. Perhaps it would help if you took the time to express yourself properly in the English language. Unless you have been playing with us and truly do understand the difference between the nominative and objective cases, I would suggest you start there.
Honestly, I think you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the actions of the United States when it comes to our atrocities in other countries. What I have a problem with is your constant tirade against people on this blog who (not whom, BTW) probably agree. Isn’t there some way you can find it in yourself to discuss this in a reasonable, rational way? Why does it have to be that you immediately discard the common ground and accuse the people around you of being just as guilty as the shooters and not take the time to truly discuss what we can do?
Bolithio, in his most recent post said that he hasn’t seen a convincing reason for these weapons to be available to the general public. I agree. Please understand that the Second Amendment as a basis for an argument will open a can of worms for you, in that it’s intent will then be open for discussion. I will say the same for the Thomas Jefferson quote given earlier by Fred Mangels. Fred is someone for whom (not who) I have respect, even though I am not always in agreement with him.
The Second Amendment and the Jefferson quote both use the words “the people,” not “people”. That combination implies that the founding fathers’ intent had to do with the establishment of a militia, which is somewhat different from, for example, the position taken today by the NRA.
Like others here have already stated, I have no problem with the general population having the right to own guns. Could we discuss, in a sensible way, whether we can come to an agreement about limits?
December 19, 2012 at 1:00 pm
bolithio
It has to be about drawing that line. Should assault weapons be available? What about rocket launchers and C4? Drone planes? Bombs?
Would all rational people would agree with this statement?: “Nuclear Weapons should not be available to people in terms of the Second Amendment”
Assuming they do, that means that there is a line between what we believe society needs to satisfy the Second Amendment and keep our society safe as feasible.
So for 2nd amendment people, why cant assault/battle field grade weapons be that line?
December 19, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Eric Kirk
how many of the women you cite are “street tramps whoring out their vaginas”? – HOJ
Gosh HOJ. I really don’t know. Are you actually quoting somebody there?
December 19, 2012 at 5:09 pm
Quote Idian
“…while the nation seeks to demonize gun ownership, it has systematically failed to address the far more dangerous and overreaching affects of mental conditioning that violent video games and movies have on people, especially its youth. “
December 19, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Lud
Guns are a technology of unfair advantage. One of the problems with the way technology works is that one side or one guy has a bigger gun and “that’s not fair,” so the other side gets a bigger one and on and on. Technology is a game of one-up-manship. Perfect for the constant churning of capitalism.
Why would citizens have assault weapons, so they can slaughter whole regiments ?
Boys learn how to handle and enjoy high tech assault weapons through high tech video games. That’s what they were invented for, to increase the “kill rate” of future soldiers, since humans used to be in general constitutionally unwilling to kill others for no reason.
The low “kill rate” during the Viet Nam war bothered the pentagon intelligence .boys, so they came up with video games. Apparently it is increasing the kill rate in young men.
December 19, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Unk John
Quote Idian quoted,
“…while the nation seeks to demonize gun ownership, it has systematically failed to address the far more dangerous and overreaching affects of mental conditioning that violent video games and movies have on people, especially its youth. “
I take exception to the clause, “…while the nation seeks to demonize gun ownership”. I think most people have no desire to demonize gun owners. We can, for the moment, agree to disagree.
What seems far more important is that I wholeheartedly agree with the second part concerning mental health issues. This is an area that demands our attention, and we must deal with it no matter how long it takes.
The problem is that the period of time could be lengthy. Meanwhile, we have an increasing number of people with demons, who have access right here in this reality to some of the very weapons they use in their virtual reality.
Can we start by asking why it is necessary to make them available in this country?
December 20, 2012 at 7:22 am
bolithio
Lets not forget about heavy metal and crazy punk music….
December 20, 2012 at 7:58 am
Dave Kirby
bo…have to agree. When you have rappers naming themselves after gangster guns it all gets a little creepy….take TechN9ne a guy who has played locally….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEC-9.
December 20, 2012 at 10:20 am
bolithio
I had a water-gun that looked exactly like that growing up. Hours of fun pretending to be a space marine, or a supper spy, or what ever.
I reject the idea that video games and/or music is to blame for people who go on murderous rampages.
I grew up hear my parents play music ranging from Doc Watson and Woody Guthrie to Bob Dylan and the Stones. How many songs talk about robbing and killing? Even glamorize it? I was completely fascinated with cowboys and romanticized the likes of Billy the Kid and Doc Holiday. But I never killed a man! Its not music!
December 20, 2012 at 10:24 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Unk John,
HOJ responses are a direct result of “others’ lack of respect, integrity, honesty, sincerity, honer, etc… on any given subject matter that is falsely reasoned “far to positively”…..like Unk devolving like so many others into English language attacks. Hey John, if ya have a gripe, take-it-up with the public educators; afterall, go after the root of the problem. HOJ is more reasonable than any blogger on the north coast, period! Probably why HOJ is followed and stalked by so many, if that ain’t cynical in it’s own interpretive mannerism. “who” and “whom”, really?
Also, Unk, there exists “no common ground” when proponents of anti-gun laws are arguing baseless points in a shooting where weapons were stolen, but all-of-a-sudden, the media and the anti’s decide to argue “Gun shows”. The irony is that the whining side of the gun issue can’t argue points that are acceptible by those seeking common ground because the “so-called” common ground is only the ground that which the anti’s stand, not the pros.
When statistics get thrown around that are “rough in application”, one must consider how to “break-down” the statistics into more “representable figures”.
When Erik mentions number of women dying because of guns, one must ask the question, “which types of women are being killed by guns?”
List: Prostitutes, drug addicts, gang bangers, etc….of course, there is also the abusive religious families, teacher families, cop families, military families, etc… and many other types in between.
Typically, a person’s lifestyle warrants whether or not they die at the hands of a firearm; or, become the shooter. People kill people, not guns!
As far as limits, maybe hold accountable those parents who abdicate their responsibilities by purchasing toy firearms and violent video games that teach these young sponges of society that it is acceptible to rape, murder, harass, bully, molest, destroy, etc… The military complex ain’t complainin’ though, for great ahnd to eye coordination is being practiced, stimulating those brain cells that have orgasms over violence. – HOJ
Ps. HOJ’s posts are as a result of others being included
December 20, 2012 at 10:29 am
Eric Kirk
Because those damned prostitutes deserve whatever they get and don’t deserve policy consideration. We got it HOJ. Your assumption that they account for most of the women being killed by lovers, domestic abusers, and other obsessed persons who might seem normal otherwise is noted and considered for what it’s worth.
December 20, 2012 at 10:33 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Bolithio says, “I reject the idea that video games and/or music is to blame for people who go on murderous rampages. ”
Response: Do you reject the idea that video games teaches its gamer/players to be “pro-gun advocates”, especially for heavy weaponry?
Do ya see any link, yet?
Good luck drumming-up support for anti-gun laws when the basis of gun acceptance is being fostered at home by the parents in front of the tele-set playing violent video games! – HOJ
December 20, 2012 at 10:44 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Erik,
people deserve what they provide themselves with. Obviously, not everyone deserves what they get that they did not provide themselves.
HOJ remembers a time at a bachelor party in Tahoe where the “dancers” came by for lap dances, titty rubs, fondling, etc…The girls had a “personal bodyguard”.
Why?
The business they engage in has its “moments” of violence and sexual assaults. Personally, HOJ refrained and went to another location in the party zone because HOJ ain’t into STREET TRAMPS! The girls can do what they want too, but must also accept the results of their individual actions and decision makings. The point is not to cast “stats” that are lacking in specificities. You threw out some data that was, well, very arguable in a court of law if be the case. So, breaking down the data you presented seems fair. Apparantly, the direction HOJ took was not to your liking. Oops! HOJ apologizes if you have a daughter, wife or other female in your life that was offended. – HOJ
December 20, 2012 at 10:49 am
Eric Kirk
No HOJ, mysogeny is not to my to my liking. Sorry if I’m pissy about it.
December 20, 2012 at 10:51 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Erik,
I see no piss in your pissed-off state. – HOJ
December 20, 2012 at 10:58 am
bolithio
Do you reject the idea that video games teaches its gamer/players to be “pro-gun advocates”, especially for heavy weaponry?
Yup, I reject that too.
December 20, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Anonymous
HOJ “how many of the women you cite are ‘street tramps whoring out their vaginas’? ”
I can’t decide whether HOJ is a misanthropic misogynist, or a misogynistic misanthropist.
December 20, 2012 at 2:21 pm
Unk John
Actually, anonymous @ 12pm, he may be somewhere in between. Hard to tell, since I think he is complicated. In his rants he makes some sense. He antagonizes because he feels he has been antagonized. I prefer not to concern myself with who started it, nor do I care to get into the psychologists’ statements about people who refer to themselves in the third person.
Hoj says that guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Bolithio seemingly believes that violent games don’t kill people, people with guns kill people. I know that Bolithio understands that people kill in other ways as well, so let’s not go there.
Where I would like to go is that we do at least a two pronged attack on this problem by saying that the relationship between the playing of violent games and the acts of people with demons should be looked into and the possibility of reducing the number of these events by limiting the types of firearms available to the general public needs to be examined as well.
Before I go on, please let me apologize for that last sentence/paragraph. It should be taken to a far off place and shot. I think you get my drift, though.
Of the two components of the problem mentioned above, I want to concentrate on the issue of guns, at least for the time being. I will state for the record that I am in agreement with Bolithio that a line has to be drawn and that I, for the moment, believe that it should be drawn at assault weapons. I want to ask the same question again. Can someone please start by stating why they think assault weapons are necessary in the home?
December 20, 2012 at 5:09 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Unk John,
HOJ does not antagonize, unless straight-up communication that cuts-to-the-chase is antagonizing. If that be the case, well, you break easily then.
Anonymous – Eric cited a statistic that HOJ wants broken down so that “women who die by guns” can be statistically understood better in so far as what they do that increases the odds that they die by a gun. Is that an unfair extrapolation of data? If so, oh well.
Bolithio, are you sure? Anyhow, this quote here,
“So for 2nd amendment people, why can’t assault/battle field grade weapons be that line?”
is quite telling in that one must ask, “if you believe the government should have more rights to uses of firearms than the private sector?”
If the line is drawn as you suggest, then that line must also include law enforcement. If heavy weaponry is banned, then ;let it be banned for everyone! If not, equal opportunity and protections. Part of being an American is of the people, by the people, for the people. This, imo, equates to neither government or the private sector being more powerful than the other when they are supposed to be one in the same, just sayin that restrictions should apply to everyone if the anti’s want to argue points on matters regarding gun ownership and gun types allowed. People kill people, period.
Ironic how many nanny state people manipulate a tragic situation when trying to make illegal yet another method of attaining guns that has no connection as of yet to this most recent gun violence episode in Newtown Connecticut. Where there is a will to kill, there exists a way to kill.
Actually, as is prominant in Americanized government, bureaucrats make law after law because they lack on the enforcement side of the previous law. So, abdication of responsibility is used time and again to be able to fiddle faddle more words onto paper that mean nothing because enforcement of current laws is lacking bigtime.
Just think how many “armed felons” by way of marijuana charges are safer, more law abiding citizens than the nutjob who whacked 28 +/- people?
Unk John,
if you are the homeowner and a few criminals “break and enter into your home”, would you rather have an auto or single shot capability when your life is threatened? Do you value your life more than the intruders?
How about focusing on the lack of “securing legally purchased firearms”, since that is the basis of why people died this past week in Newtown. Obviously, unsecured firearms (no matter what type) is not good at all and leads to guns getting into the hands of the wrong people. Further, heavy weaponry is needed to offset the unlevel field of play. It makes zero sense to allow government to have more powerful weapons without the private sector having equal capabilities to defend against such heavy weaponry used by the government on its own people.
All-in-all, deaths like what happened in newton is terrifying, but the arguing back and forth over guns needs to roost where the chickens lay their eggs…..people kill people, not guns. – HOJ
December 20, 2012 at 5:42 pm
Dave Kirby
Henchie…I’ve heard this nonsense before. The part about needing weapons to stand up to the government when they come for us. It’s a popular delusion among militia types. The fact is a company of marines would have no trouble wiping out these unfit overweight wannabees without breaking a sweat. Why is it all you crackpots are so long winded?
December 20, 2012 at 7:09 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Dave Kirby,
why the constant name-calling? Oh, you don’t have a real argument that passes muster. The deflection tactic is historically old too, fyi. Corporations and government teach its employees that rubbish.
Anyhow, to respond appropriately, even if a person never has to use a firearm, why are the anti’s so scared that the firearm would even exist provided the firearm is legally owned and secured. Ruby (???) Ridge retoric does not help, either.
Also, are you suggesting “delusionists” crafted and adopted and implemented the US Constitution? Or, just gun toting, land owning white supremecists? Just curious. HOJ would agree that certain things like “savages” and “anti-women laws” were way off base and wrong, but what else do crooked white men do to supress the non gun toting, non land owning, non white supremecists’ lifestyles.
Lastly, “a company of marines …..” does not apply unless your admitting in your example that the fat lard ass blobs are criminals deserving of arrest because if they are not criminals and not deserving of arrest, then why the hell are the marines even showing-up on domestic soil? In the latter thought, a fully-automatic is very justifiable to take down as many marines as possible! Of course, in that scenario, the government would not want the unfit to have a fully automatic weapon, understandably. To the fat unfit being invaded with justification, there exists no difference in mind-set as to protecting oneself with any means possible. It is the possiblities the government partly fears!
Crackpots, longwinded, ….nah, that is just the blowback created by your hurricane of retoric. – HOJ
December 20, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Dave Kirby
Henchi…When you get in an arms race with the government where you going to park your tank? Are you serious or are you just trolling? Starting to feel had by responding to the nonsense. Maybe if you had balls enough to use your real name rather than the melodramatic moniker I’d take you at your word. But for now you’re just another annoyance.
December 20, 2012 at 10:05 pm
Ernie Branscomb
Obviously gun control is one of the most polarizing issues in American today, but I see no reason that we can’t talk about it in an adult manner. I can completely see all sides.
My stance is that I can see the need for small caliber automatic weapons, rifles, and handguns for family defense. I too have a lot of confidence that our government won’t collapse, but it is possible. If we have a major economic meltdown government may loose control to rioting in the streets. A convincing weapon would keep thugs off your doorstep until a new government could be formed. I’m not saying this from any kind of a paranoid outlook, but I’m just weighing possibilities.
Why is it that the gun control people keep wanting to bring up ludicrous scenarios where to NRA wants to legalize nuclear weapons, stinger missiles and tanks. That kind of talk brings up question of your own sanity. It’s no wonder that people quietly joining the NRA by the thousands.
December 20, 2012 at 10:27 pm
Anonymous
” It’s no wonder that people quietly joining the NRA by the thousands.”
And turning against them by the millions.
December 20, 2012 at 11:05 pm
Ernie Branscomb
“And turning against them by the millions.”
Anon, you didn’t give one ounce of thought to your comment. It felt good so you blurted it out. How do you expect to implement your new strict gun laws? Simply say, “okay, your guns are illegal now, just put them over here in this barrel and we will melt them into Priuses”.
Like I say, I hope to hell you guys pass these gun laws. It will be the most interesting exersise in futility that the United States ever passed. What are you going to do to the people that have guns that nobody even knows about. Are you really naive enough to believe that people will turn in their guns. What are you going to do to them if they don’t turn in their guns, shoot them?
I’m not saying that the world wouldn’t be wonderful without guns, but I am saying that gun laws are pretty damn naive. Don’t listen to me, pass your gun laws, they won’t change my life one speck. I hope that you’re not dissappointed that I don’t care what laws that you pass. But, don’t pass a law that you can’t enforce. Give me your plan or get off my back!
December 20, 2012 at 11:54 pm
Anonymous
“Don’t listen to me, pass your gun laws, they won’t change my life one speck. I hope that you’re not dissappointed that I don’t care what laws that you pass.”
For a guy that doesn’t care, you sure have a lot to say about it, and it seems like a lot of emotion behind it.
Here’s an approach I would support: Ban assault rifles and high-capacity ammo clips (for both rifles and handguns), give people 3 months to turn them in with no penalty (enough time to make sure the word gets out to people), after that, very stiff penalties when caught. Meanwhile, for all guns, close the gun-show loophole that allows 40% of all gun sales to take place without a background check. Also increase penalties on illegal gun sales, and on people who fail to secure their guns when those guns are later used in a crime.
I don’t see why any of those things would be unenforceable. Of course no system will be perfect, or prevent all tragedies. But if we could prevent even some gun violence, that’s worth it. Because in my opinion, there’s no legitimate need for civilians to own assault rifles and high-capacity clips — they’re either ego-stroking playthings for spoiled adults who never grew up out of their video game / movie fantasy world, or psychological crutches for paranoid “survivalist” types who ridiculously imagine themselves as heroic freedom fighters. In both cases, not a reason to risk innocent lives.
I do agree that it doesn’t make sense to have laws that go unenforced (at least just ones) and along those lines I would note that apparently some 70,000 people are caught lying on their background checks, and yet only 1/10 of 1% are prosecuted. That should change immediately, and it wouldn’t even take legislation to do it. Of course that would require increased federalprosecutory resources…maybe they should consider freeing up existing resources by passing federal legislation officially recognizing state medical and recreational cannabis laws. Just a thought.
December 20, 2012 at 11:54 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually, to quote ex-Mayor Ed Koch, “We don’t have to collect them all. If we nailed a few assholes to the wall, the rest would throw their guns into the Hudson River.”
But I don’t think anybody’s going to pass laws which would collect guns already in anyone’s possession. What new laws might do is restrict distribution, increase accountability from distributors for arms which end up on the streets, and ultimately result in decreased production from manufacturers. It’s about stemming the tide of proliferation.
December 21, 2012 at 12:16 am
Anonymous
As a practical, political matter, it seems likely that if they do ban the assault rifles, they’ll probably grandfather in any existing assault rifles. And I wouldn’t really have a big problem with that. But I would much prefer that they outright ban the high-capacity ammo clips, whether they are for assault rifles or handguns. That way the gun owners who already have these assault rifles can keep them (and use them with smaller ammo clips), but at least they won’t be able to be used to kill so many people, so fast, as has happened in so many of these recent mass shootings. And I’d prefer if the existing assault rifles could no longer be sold or transferred to anyone. In other words, the existing owner could keep them for life, but that’s it. This would gradually reduce the number in circulation, without having to actively “take away” anyone’s guns. Over time the number of these weapons that could be grabbed by someone’s deranged child (or whoever), ready to go on a rampage, will decline. Yes, some criminals will hold onto them and trade them among themselves, but over time there will be fewer and fewer of them available for that blackmarket trade. And with increased penalties for unauthorized distribution, possession, and use of those guns, even many (sane, calculating) criminals will avoid them.
December 21, 2012 at 12:38 am
Anonymous
Ernie, millions of people are turning against the NRA, not for defending the right for law-abiding Americans to own handguns and rifles for hunting, home defense and target shooting, they are turning against the NRA for their vociferous opposition to even the most basic, common-sense regulations — like, for example, closing the gun-show loophole that allows 40% of gun sales to take place without a background check, banning assault rifles and high-capacity ammo clips, etc.
By the way, surveys show that most gun owners, and even most NRA members, support some of these types of regulations. The problem is that at the moment the NRA is not representing those rank-and-file members, they’re representing the extreme hard-line “I should be able to own any damn gun I want” types, and of course the gun manufacturers who make billions selling military-style weapons to civilians — and provide the vast majority of funding for the pro-gun-extremist lobby. Meanwhile, the NRA keeps poorly-informed rank-and-file members on the hook with their decades of scaremongering claims that the government is about to come seize their legally-owned handguns and hunting rifles, which is not something that is even remotely likely to happen.
We’ll see what the NRA has to say tomorrow, when they hold their press conference. If they dial back on their extremist stance and embrace sensible regulation, then millions of Americans will no longer have a reason to turn against them.
December 21, 2012 at 5:58 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Dave Kirby,
you know my real name, quit playing games. HOJ is probably the most prolific blogger that visits blogsites. HOJ has stated his name often, but HOJ is just more artistic. Afterall, the cannabalistic serial killer jokes over one’s real name kinda gets old after a while. Anyhow, HOJ sees you still resort to deflections of topic. You must enjoy the glutton of punsihment since you willingly and enjoyingly read and respond to HOJ posts.
* How about this deflection Dave (HOJ’s first and only): Too the “naysayers of justice”, a story is brewing about former cops going rogue to create a criminal enterprise in Trinity County. It appears these former trained cops like to be “home-invaders too” and that hurting people is acceptible to the former publicly trained employees!
Now, when is Sheriff Clowney in Humboldt gonna wield his big schtick?
Anyhow Dave, the point being is that HOJ would have no problem using an assault weapon on these jerk-offs who deserve to die for their treasons. Had they been current employees, well, racketeering could be a charge too. Point is, ya never know who can turn on you! Obviously, HOJ could never resist a full-on troop attack unless other bandits were aiding HOJ. The argument of self-defense against the government and its tyranny comes into play on a non-individual basis. Sorry, no Ruby Ridge syndrome here! – HOJ
December 21, 2012 at 6:07 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Eric says, “But I don’t think anybody’s going to pass laws which would collect guns already in anyone’s possession.”
Response: Hmm, maybe so, but the law will say it is illegal, and when some other reason allows or forces any law enforcement agency, social services agency, etc… into someone’s home where an illegal firearm is deemed in posession of the inhabitant, that illegal firearm will be collected
Lawyers know this shit occurs, so why play stupid?
Answer: Many Americans make stupid decisions, thereby exhibiting stupidity which makes it very easy for lawyers to play and say stupid shit.
December 21, 2012 at 6:14 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Anonymous,
So, what is the cure for “Fast and Furious”?
Afterall, government putting assault rifles into the hands of violent criminals is no different in results than that off a psycho whackjob 20 year old with an irresponsible teacher parent who, for whatever insane reason, felt comfortable sleeping in her own bed in her own residence with another person having access to her firearms. How could a person sleep knowing someone else is nearer to your firearms than you? Talk about STUPID!!!
If the line to be drawn is to be drawn, let it be drawn upon ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS (government employees too); yet, we should all know by now that state governments and the feds will give waivers to non-citizens, just like the tax break subsidies, free education, etc…. – HOJ
December 21, 2012 at 6:17 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Anonymous wrote, “As a practical, political matter, it seems likely that if they do ban the assault rifles, they’ll probably grandfather in any existing assault rifles”
Response: Not likely, look at California….no ifs, ands or buts, period, except that illiegal aliens are immune from such gun laws, just like education costs! – HOJ
December 21, 2012 at 9:27 am
bolithio
Ernie, please pause and consider – taking things away is generally not on the table. I do not support taking away guns legally obtained previously. It was OK then, and well, we just have to deal with the fact that they are out there. But we dont need to drop tens of thousands of assault weapons into the general public every year. That is what I want to see controlled. I would even be willing to allow a special permit for assault weapons that requires annual renewal/tracking. (People who claim to use these weapons for benign purpose should have no problem with this practice, for the sake of public safety, right?)
HOJ, your a little hard to read, but call me what you will. Im not afraid of the government. I so not believe that there is a plot by the government to take away out guns so they can turn us into a sci-fi movie plot line. Therefore, an arms race with the government is a bunk argument in my view.
Its called gun control, not prohibition. Think of things government controls to make living in a society bearable. Speed limits, intoxication driving limits, chemical contamination limits, food safety, and a hundred more things most people take for granted.
I do not want to live in anarchy. I will gladly pay to live in a society that attempts to care for the populace. I want to be safe, and I don’t want to have to get in gun battles regularly to achieve that goal.
December 21, 2012 at 10:03 am
Anonymous
And today Wayne LaPierre, president of the NRA, confirmed once again that they are not representing the majority of gun owners who support common-sense regulations like closing the gun-show loophole. They aren’t backing a ban on assault rifles or high-capacity ammo clips. They are, quite simply. representing the gun manufacturers who pour millions into the gun lobby, to protect the billions they are making selling military-style weapons to civilians. It’s a simple, and profitable, business arrangement for both, and the blood on their hands is just not part of their cynical calculus. This is why millions of Americans, gun owners and non-gun-owners, are (finally) turning against the NRA and other pro-gun extremists, whether Ernie likes it or not.
December 21, 2012 at 10:15 am
Dave Kirby
Henny…You just confirmed my longwinded crackpot comment.
December 21, 2012 at 10:35 am
Anonymous
Not content to simply ignore proposals for common-sense gun regulation, LaPierre also felt it was a important to, once again, amp up the scaremongering (and the sale of military-style guns to civilians) with this little gem:
“Add another hurricane, terrorist attack, or some other natural or man made disaster, and you have got a recipe for a national nightmare of violence and victimization.”
Pretty sickening when you realize that the guns used by the Newtown killer were reportedly being stockpiled by the shooter’s mother due to her belief in exactly that kind of scenario. In other words, LaPierre just threw more fuel on the fire, encouraging more people like Nancy Lanzas to stockpile more military-style guns, and increasing the chances of more deranged people like Adam Lanza having access to those guns for more mass shooting rampages to add to our already-existing “national nightmare of violence and victimization.”
To say LaPierre has blood on his hands would be a gross understatement — he’s bathed in blood, he’s wallowing in it, frolicking in it.
December 21, 2012 at 4:12 pm
spyrock
i think the nra guy is right about having security guards at schools. since 911, many companies are concerned about terroist attack. why wouldn’t they attack our schools? they should fence in the whole school with one gate to get in or out. you either work there go to school there have a kid going to school there or you don’t get in. this is the way it is where i work. they check everyone in and out in the name of food defense,. this would put a lot of people back to work creating thousands of jobs all over the country. and since the extremist republicans in the house just voted down baynerds plan to not raise taxes on anyone making under a million, all of our taxes will go up next year so there will plenty of money to pay for this.
they should also allow prinicipals to paddle the kids at school to teach them that there are consequences for bad behavior. feeling a little pain in the ass might make a spoiled little rich kid know what it feels like to hurt someone else.
December 21, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Anonymous
The only problem I can see with having an armed guard at every school is, what happens if the armed guard gets shot? It would make a LOT more sense to arm the teachers, and some of the kids. The kindergartners might be too young, but I’d say from second grade up the kids can handle it.
And this, of course, is someplace where we don’t want a level playing field. So, as long as military assault rifles are legal, I think the kids should be armed with Stinger missiles. (This may require some training, but lunch period can be shortened if necessary.)
If Stingers are illegal, only criminals will have Stingers. You can quote me.
December 21, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Anonymous
There’ll be a great market in Stinger-capable backpacks, too.
December 21, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Anonymous
Yes, I’m sure kids being beaten by their principal won’t lead to any kind of revenge incidents or anything.
As far as an armed guard or better yet an actual police officer in every school, fine, if done right I don’t see anything wrong with that. But as the only answer? Pretty weak. Keep in mind that these mass shooters are showing up with body armor, assault rifles and high-capacity clips. So to have any real assurance that you could stop them, you’d need some kind of mini-SWAT team in every school. Pretty expensive and complicated work-around just so a bunch of immature gun fantasists can continue to play Rambo at the firing range, and give themselves a false sense of security at home.
December 21, 2012 at 6:13 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Bolithio,
HOJ won’t call you anything, just attempting to decipher your meanings (the heavy metal music, etc… was confusing in that you were not clear in sarcasm or reality). Anyhow, HOJ has said all along responsible gun ownership as it equates to “gun control”. Owners need to control their guns away from others, especially parents whose heads are so far up their asses, that they allow they children access to the firearms.
As far as the “right to bare arms”, HOJ believes a “constitutional right is not to be regulated” as opposed to an amendment not part of the “Bill of Rights”.
HOJ agrees with you on “not wanting to get into a fight with government” BUT that does not guarantee that government don’t want to start-up a fight with HOJ or any other person. It is a possibility that “shit hits the fan” and HOJ wants to be able to protect himself. Responsible gun ownership, that is the key!
Again, if people don’t want assault weapons to be legal, then HOJ does not want the government to be able to have assault weapons either, unless on foreign soil in a war!
Anonymous says, “They are, quite simply. representing the gun manufacturers who pour millions into the gun lobby, to protect the billions they are making selling military-style weapons to civilians. It’s a simple, and profitable, business arrangement for both, and the blood on their hands is just not part of their cynical calculus.”
Response: Don’t you believe you could input “video game manufacturers into your scenario” and come-out with the same resulting two sentence argument?
Anonymous says, “Pretty sickening when you realize that the guns used by the Newtown killer were reportedly being stockpiled by the shooter’s mother due to her belief in exactly that kind of scenario.”
Response: So, why did the school district hire this whack-job mommy as a teacher without references and back-ground checks that expose radical minded educators?
Spyrock, schools are supposed to have a safety plan, security plan, etc… already. What LaPierre did was “piggy-back” on that which already exists to make it appear as if the NRA was gonna do something “extra special”.
Personally, one security guard leads to two, then to four, then much more. Why? Schools always whine for more, especially AFTER SOME NEW EVENT OCCURS AND THE SCHOOL WANTS SUBSIDIES TO DO THIS OR THAT. When HOJ was younger and in school, authority was a threatening atmosphere that the student body did not appreciate. Cops on campus is gonna be part of the Agenda 21 scheme that fosters young children into adults acceptible to a more expansive “police state”. Government uses tactics like the big tobacco company did for all those years sending out those subliminal messages to encourage smoking in the mindsets of young children and young adults.
Notice too that the media has referred to the shooter as a “grown man”….pfffft, hardly grown, but a young adult the shooter was. Anything to make the age differences between victims and perp look greater. Too many media “school milk-it stories to exploit” because having young adults or children in the news time after time using a firearm actually implies that the parents of these delinquents are “failures”.
Finally, maybe the easy decision on guns will be made by “mother nature” and her insatiable desire to wipe-out the planet from time to time. Maybe, just maybe, the human race will be depleted by 80%, would not that be awesome? Then, humans can live free again to hopefully shape a better society than the one that presently exists. – HOJ
December 21, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Anonymous
HOJ said: “So, why did the school district hire this whack-job mommy as a teacher without references and back-ground checks that expose radical minded educators?”
They didn’t, you blathering moron. For crying out loud, at least learn the basic facts of the story before shooting your mouth off. Or don’t you think the 20 dead children deserve at least that basic level of due diligence on your part? Apparently not.
As far as your “belief” that rights contained in the Bill of rights should not be “regulated” I guess you’ve decided to simply ignore the actual text of the Second Amendment, which reads ” A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
Besides, there is no such thing as “absolute rights” — all rights are balanced against other rights, and against the rights of other people. For example, I have the right to free speech, but that doesn’t give me the right to set up loudspeakers right at your property line and blast my voice at you at any volume I want 24 hours a day. In other words, my right to free speech must be balanced against your rights to privacy, etc.
Similarly, when your self-declared “right” to own a military-style assault rifle with a high capacity ammo clip comes into conflict with my innocent child’s right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” then as far as I’m concerned you can take your stupid AR -15 and shove it up your ass — if you can find any room in there, what with your head already wedged so far up there.
If a normal pistol, rifle, or shotgun is not enough to keep you feeling relatively secure and safe in your home, then your level of paranoia and/or cowardice is truly off the charts. Grow some balls, or get some therapy…or whatever.
December 21, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Ernie Branscomb
“For a guy that doesn’t care, you sure have a lot to say about it, and it seems like a lot of emotion behind it.”
Yep, nothing will upset me faster than suffering a fool. From the sublime to the ridiculous. Now we have the NRA saying we should have armed guards in schools. I couldn’t disagree more.
I asked a very wise politician one time why he had dropped his moderate approach to an issue. He replied that “being middle of the road on any issue will surely get you run over”. That’s what I see here, the NRA knows full well that they will never put armed guards in schools. The NRA is simply pandering to their base. Somewhat the same as all of Feinstein’s frothing about gun control. For the American people the answer lays somewhere in the middle.
I think that Bolitio’s approach is where we will have to end up.
On a side note; a friend just tipped me off that Russia is pumping out 19 million new Kalashnikov AK47s. How hard do you think that it would be to access one of them. Do any of you feel good gun law people have a law for them?
December 21, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Anonymous
Ernie,
Three ways in which this tragedy might have been avoided:
1. If the shooter had been identified as someone who was prone to this type of action, and appropriate intervention and treatment had been provided. However, it doesn’t appear that he had demonstrated violent tendencies, at least no more so than many millions of other teenagers. Access to mental health care wasn’t really an issue, at least not in terms of cost, as his parents had loads of money. That’s not to say that I don’t think more should be done along those lines — it should, and might prevent other tragedies where ability to afford mental health care actually is an issue. But as far as this particular massacre, inability to afford mental health care wasn’t the issue.
2. If the shooter’s mother had kept her firearms locked up and inaccessible to her troubled son. Apparently they were in an unlocked closet. I fully support stiff penalties against gun owners whose weapons are not properly secured and as a result are taken by someone, who goes on to commit a crime with them. But unless you’re going to send someone into every gun owner’s home to check on how the guns are stored every day, some people are going to be stupid and leave their guns lying around, easily accessible to a troubled family member, or a burglar, or whatever. Again, not saying we shouldn’t do more along those lines, both in terms of education, and legal accountability, we should. But again, not clear that would have prevented this tragedy.
3. If the shooter’s mother (and everyone else) had not been allowed to legally own assault rifles and high-capacity ammo clips in the first place. Is it possible that she would have obtained such items on the black market, and taken the chance of exposing herself to harsh legal penalties? Possible, but in my opinion, very, very unlikely. Is it possible that the shooter could have attacked the school anyway, with a regular rifle or handgun with a much-smaller-capacity clip? Yes, quite possible. But is it likely he could have managed to kill 26 people so fast? No, that is not likely at all.
Which is why, in my opinion, creeps like Wayne LaPierre — who have fought tooth and nail to make sure we did not ban assault rifles and high-capacity clips — have the blood of 20 innocent children on their hands this week. Actually, a whole lot more, since this is just one of numerous incidents where these extra-deadly guns have been legally purchased (thanks to LaPierre and his ilk) and then used to slaughter innocents.
Yes, it’s true that there is no legislation that will stop ALL cases of gun murder, but that is no excuse for failing to act to stop (or at least lessen the effectiveness of) as many would-be gun murderers as we can. Pretending that it’s an all-or-nothing proposition, and since we can’t stop all such attacks its therefore a waste of time to try to stop any is a cynical, illogical, bullshit argument that I would expect from the likes of LaPierre and his gun-profiteering cronies…but it’s disappointing to see some otherwise sensible people buying into that kind of crap.
December 22, 2012 at 12:00 am
Anonymous
“nothing will upset me faster than suffering a fool.”
Sorry, but somehow your “suffering” doesn’t concern me quite as much as the suffering of the family and friends of those killed by these assault rifles and high-capacity ammo clips, thanks, in part, to the “fools” who claim that they can’t understand how reducing the availability of these particular weapons might prevent at least some of these tragedies.
December 22, 2012 at 4:17 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Yes, were all fools if we support responsible gun ownership knowing that the irresponsible are the culprits that kill, not firearms. Society using children as political tools yet again.
Funny how Sony (movie makers, video game manufacturer, etc…) makes a film “Zero Dark Thirty” which displays scenes of enhanced interrogation techniques” that critics in the senate and cia syas sends the wrong message, etc….
WELL
then what say congressional leaders and law agencies about violent video games and other viuolent movies?
In one hand, argue controls, while in the other hand, argue censorship because government don’t want people to get “false impressions or the wrong ideas, etc…”
Lastly, a reason why there could be a waning support level for guns is most likely relative to the number of “immigrants” who move to AMerica from a country that is not American and thereby not from a society inclusive of guns. Basically, anti’s use immigration to get rid of historic rights…it is called dillution, the same thing that cultures did when breading out the culture that was just destroyed through war.
Diversity is messing-up America too!
Next thing ya know, bow and arrows will be restricted because their silent and deadly; and, if your a fast reloader, you can empty your quill quickly. Throw a little warhead device on the tip for some added effect and damage and viola, another mass murder weapon.
****************************************************************
December 21, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Anonymous
HOJ said: “So, why did the school district hire this whack-job mommy as a teacher without references and back-ground checks that expose radical minded educators?”
They didn’t, you blathering moron. For crying out loud, at least learn the basic facts of the story before shooting your mouth off. Or don’t you think the 20 dead children deserve at least that basic level of due diligence on your part? Apparently not.
Response: Umm, not to dampen your mood any further, but what HOJ wrote was due to information reported by CNN; so, if you have a gripe, take it up with the root cause which is media reporting false information, again. If you can suggest a better media source on this particular incident, then by all means, please cite it or reference it because HOJ would like to appease your request.
**********************************************************
As far as your “belief” that rights contained in the Bill of rights should not be “regulated” I guess you’ve decided to simply ignore the actual text of the Second Amendment, which reads ” A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
Response: “a well regulated militia” is separate from “the right to bear arms” IS DIFFERENT.
WHY?
“Regulation is attached to militia, not firearms”. Nice try though! – HOJ
December 22, 2012 at 4:46 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Anonymous angrily attacks like a Newtown shooter by saying, “Similarly, when your self-declared “right” to own a military-style assault rifle with a high capacity ammo clip comes into conflict with my innocent child’s right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” then as far as I’m concerned you can take your stupid AR -15 and shove it up your ass — if you can find any room in there, what with your head already wedged so far up there.
If a normal pistol, rifle, or shotgun is not enough to keep you feeling relatively secure and safe in your home, then your level of paranoia and/or cowardice is truly off the charts. Grow some balls, or get some therapy…or whatever.”
Response: Hmmm, being sincere and honorable is discussing the relative connections to this shooting. HOJ was the first blogger to discuss “gun owner responsibilities” and “firearms being secured”, etc… all the while the media wants to exploit dead children to discuss “gun shows” which have yet to be reported as a “connection to this tragedy”.
Simply saying or implying that because HOJ wants to bear heavy weaponry does not suggest that HOJ will go-off and kill children, let alone “brag about owning the firearms to your children”. Maybe, as a parent, you can do a better job raising your child(ren). If parents were doing what they should, then whackjobs would not exist in the high volumes they do today, going-off on rages to kill any person. Parents, wake-up!!!
Why not kill children?
Answer: it is wrong to kill anyone unless there is a threat; and, HOJ don’t want to appease the anti’s by being so irresponsible. So, no threat, just perceptions of possibilities. Now, when is that new viral mutated contagion gonna hit the streets, got zombies to kill.
One thing HOJ has learned years ago is that life is a mystery, but very special in that anything is possible. Apparantly, anti’s amuse themselves that it is not possible to own heavy weaponry because anyone who owns “heavy weaponry” is irresponsible and out-of-touch, thereby implying heavy weaponry enthusiasts are evil and not wanted as American citizens. If that be the case, then buy HOJ and all gun toting owners off so we have money (more Americanized debt) to make a choice to move away from the USA to Sweden or Norway or Canada, etc…rather than live in a country where people are not accepted for who they are and their beliefs, especially when the rules in the USA are ever changing which actually displaces people. In America, diversity through immigration takes away constitutional rights and uses, as does over-population. Then, add into the equation “urban lifestyles” and the case can be made that “city life” is directly a partial cause of firearm infractions and violations of laws that have infuriated the anti’s.
Again, people kill people, period. – HOJ
December 22, 2012 at 6:30 am
Anonymous
In the U.S., more often than not, cowards kill people, with guns. Certain guns, like assault rifles and guns with high-capacity clips, allow these cowards to kill lots and lots of people, very, very quickly. Thus the desire to limit their availability. Only a fool is unable to understand that. And only a coward feels the need to own those kinds of guns in order to feel “safe.” HOJ appears to be one such coward.
December 22, 2012 at 8:06 am
Plain Jane
This is an excellent editorial about why a heavily armed society is not compatible with liberty and free expression:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/the-freedom-of-an-armed-society/?src=me&ref=general
December 22, 2012 at 8:55 am
Dave Kirby
I read the NRA is taking the position that every school should have an armed officer on campus. Lets look at that hair brained idea. Even if the school districts could afford it it makes no sense. From what we’ve seen the officer would certainly need more than a pistol to hold off a nut with an assault rifle or as in the case of Columbine two nuts. So lets give the officer his own assault rifle. So then we have a fire fight in a school full of students. That is if the officer can actually be in the right place to intercept the intruder before the carnage starts. When I was in Nam the V.C. in Saigon started a bombing campaign aimed at G.I s. They car bombed the Brinks hotel,a military billet. From then on the guards, who were armed with 7.62 assault rifles would not allow vehicles to stop in front of certain buildings.
One day a slow moving truck was rolling up in front of a guarded building and the guards shouted for it to stop. It kept rolling and they opened fire. It turned out it was full of dock workers on the way to their jobs. A number were killed and several bystanders on the street also died. From that time on the guards were no longer allowed to have rifles on populated streets they were given shot guns. If assault rifles were a bad idea in a war zone what the hell are they doing on a school campus?
December 22, 2012 at 9:22 am
Olivia
Columbine had an armed guard. A lot of good that did!
December 22, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Mitch
Olivia,
Good point! Clearly, one armed guard per school is inadequate. At least two must be provided per school. Because “no new taxes,” the fiscally-prudent solution is to eliminate three pointless teachers to provide three armed deputies at each school.
December 22, 2012 at 5:39 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Dave, Olivia and Mitch,
Holy crap, we all agree on this one lame arse idea about security guards on school campuses, bad idea! It would help foster those young sponges accepting a more enhanced “police state” though! – HOJ
December 22, 2012 at 5:45 pm
"Henchman Of Justice"
Anonymous feels that cowardice is to own a gun. Hmmm, it was not cowardly to get into a fist fight to settle differences, but government wanted taxes, fines and fees for that poor behavior. So, now that fist fighting can’t be allowed to settle differences (you win some, lose some, but live to fight another day), people find other means to get even!
Now, if a person must protect their life, they are cowards because they own firearms. Makes a whole lotta sense. – HOJ
December 22, 2012 at 9:26 pm
Forest Queen
Henchman of Justice,’-fiction-3Dworld, is a 14th amendment [U.S. Citizen] -desig
Your yesterday comment @ 6:14 A.M. -”If the line is to be drawn, then let it be drawn . . .we should all know by now that the State government and the Feds will give waivers to non-citizens . . . ” HOLD THE PHONE; A ‘non-citizen’ is exactly where one should be. Briefly, a ‘citizen’ defined in the written-d o w n- ‘legal’-fiction-3Dworld, was for the darked-skinned RESiding in the District of Columbia, at that time, Slave.
The word ‘nation’ refers to any one of us. It’ s like thought-connecting that part of us (body) that came from the [material] Earth/land.
A ‘words on paper’ Claim check-box is offered on THEIR Passport Application as; X Non-Citizen National. An exit/out of the Labyrinth.
Disconnect the battery cables!
December 22, 2012 at 10:37 pm
Forest Queen
Sandy Hook Elem. School Shooting a Hoax
http://www.youtube.com/embed/aCqOMdcutWQ
December 22, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Anonymous
“Anonymous feels that cowardice is to own a gun.”
That’s not what I said. I don’t think owning a basic rifle or shotgun or handgun for target shooting, personal protection or hunting implies cowardice.
But I do think that most of these people who seem to think they need numerous military-style weapons, multiple high-capacity clips, a huge stockpile of ammo, body armor, and so on, are indeed cowards — a few of them are just plain crazy, but the rest are basically cowards unable to conquer their overgrown fears. Fear is ruling their lives to the point where the only way they can feel “safe” is to cower behind all this military hardware.
December 22, 2012 at 10:55 pm
Forest Queen
P.J. @ 8:05 A.M.,
You posted a link to a New York Times Opinion. Wow! thanks. It should be agreed upon by now that EVERYTHING placed in such a polluted vehicle is lies, lies, lies, and more lies. Did you bump your head?
December 22, 2012 at 11:09 pm
Anonymous
Forest Queen: The guy in the video lost his daughter in this horrible attack, she was murdered along with 19 other small children, and seven adults. These are verifiable facts.
The only hoax here is the one in which you’ve fooled yourself into thinking that you aren’t a deranged conspiracy theorist who is unable to tell the difference between (1) verifiable facts and (2) wild, unsubstantiated rumors and paranoid delusions.
I feel sorry for you and I wish I could believe that one day you will find a path to sanity. Sadly, it seems more likely that you will continue to slide further and further into your delusional beliefs as your mental state continues to deteriorate. I’ve seen it happen to others, and the end is never pretty.
December 23, 2012 at 8:54 am
Forest Queen
Anonymous,
Save your pity for yourself. Roll on over and go back to sleep.
December 23, 2012 at 9:22 am
bolithio
Good anecdote Dave, thanks. I also reject the idea that more people carrying guns is a solution, the sort of cant beat em join em mentality.
Dont take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home, Bill.
December 23, 2012 at 9:58 am
moviedad
Jeez! Notice how many intellectual gymnastics these fools are willing to go through, just to avoid talking about the real, underlying issue; the lack of mental health care for those who need it. Talk to any non-wealthy family in the US, who has a mentally ill child, or young-adult; and you will hear heart-breaking story after story of cold indifference from government agencies, and flat out hostility from County mental health workers in some cases. (Absolutely not the case in Humboldt/Del Norte counties.)
Ever since America lost its compassion towards its citizens; the mentally ill roam around the streets, degenerating farther and farther into insanity and physical desperation.
Yes, the mother was negligent. But she couldn’t get any help for her situation. Our country has turned into some Dickensian nightmare for those needing help. Watching the beneficiaries of the corruption dare to offer “Solutions” like turning schools into “Free-Fire Zones,” And using the tragedy as an excuse to impose new laws that will even further strip us of our natural rights. “Children were killed, so who would dare say no to “New” laws against a whole range of circumstances that could guarantee full occupancy in the prisons?” Of course these new punishments won’t do a thing to make anyone safer, but what corrupt, Anti-American politician working for the “Correctional” industry would pass up an opportunity instill “One-Strike-you’re-out” laws that could conceivably put a kid in prison for 35 years for making a “Threat?” We already have kids in juvenile prisons for threatening to “…plant a thermo-nuclear device under the school.” after his girlfriend broke up with him. I’m sorry, but they need to stop taking every stupid thing a kid says, and treating it like it’s a real credible threat. Did any of the killers so far, issue petulant threats like any normal, passionate adolescent?
There is no since of proportionality anymore. The only answer anyone in the government ever has is increased oppression against their favorite enemies; the poor.
If our society gave a damn about the victims of violence; they would begin dealing with the mess, mental and otherwise; that unregulated capitalism has created in our country. You can’t just throw mentally ill people on the street to fend for themselves. You don’t turn away family members who are trying to get help for their loved one who is slipping into insanity, because they don’t have insurance, and the psychiatrist is too busy with his other 1350 patients.
The NRA proved they are cowards. First by their silence. Then by their statements.
If looking at the pictures of those sweet angels, and the pain and horrible grief of their families isn’t enough to cut through the bullshit, then I’m afraid nothing will. Not even the slaughter of innocents can overcome the inherent greed and avarice of the ruling upper-class.
December 23, 2012 at 11:12 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Bolithio writes, “Dont take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home, Bill.”
Response: could not agree more; and, guns includes all guns and firearms and such for HOJ!
Great song too.
HOJ’s comments about “living to fight another day” was courtesy Ice Cube’s character father in the movie “FRIDAY” right before Tebo got his ass kicked rather than get shot with a gun!
Forrest Queen, HOJ is still deciphering your “coded message”. – HOJ
December 23, 2012 at 11:33 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Moviedad,
well written objective post. Anyhow, also consider how children are used as “political tools for social services” WHEN IT AIDES FUNDING. Imagine all those little girls and boys with problems (various direct and indirect) that public employees get all gooey ooey over (ahh, such a cute child…; such a shame about what happened….;oh, we can’t allow a child to be treated like this or that….;we are here to help you….etc.).
Note: the above explains partly the pandering when a human is a child
Fast forward to adulthood: many of the same public employees who were all gooey ooey with love and compassion for that human WHEN that human WAS A CHILD
BUT ALL-OF-A-SUDDEN are like…”you scumbag, no good for nothing loser…; you need to be in jail you thug…; you are no good to society;;;;oooo, look at that ugly homeless person….; etc….
Notice what happens when a “child tool” turns into “adult tool”! The same “wool coverers called public employees” turn their backs against those they formerly were all gooey ooey for because it provided a public employment opportunity back in the day.
The loser is the child-turned-adult who contemplates the hipocrisy of the very same people who were their to “supposedly” help for an income, but then want to “imprison that which can’t provide income for child services any longer”. Leaving for dead or acting like people don’t exist by “willful blindness” is typical for the public employees who failed at helping the child prior to adulthood.
Think about that rubbish too which more than suggests society has a lot of public employee BACKSTABBERS.
Parents too must be held acountable for the costs society must bear on those parents’ offsprings! If parents were paying their share of societal costs for their individual creationist acts to bear new children, something says that society may have less population concerns.
To create a life is the greatest gift that a decent society can muster, but “creating life irresponsibly” can be the worst decision society can experience. Of course, government, the military, the bankers, insurers, etc… always look at population growth as their key to profit by way of added chaoses, so don’t expect these “income types” to encourage lower population levels, at least not with the pyramid schemes that these income earner types foster daily with the accomplice of government officials looking to tax a higher population too! – HOJ
December 23, 2012 at 11:44 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Could it be that “Fast and Furious” was really implemented decades ago on the “down low” by many police agencies? Makes one think about the “real motives” police staters seek. – HOJ
December 23, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Anonymous
Not even the slaughter of innocents can overcome the inherent greed and avarice of the ruling upper-class.
that is why this stuff is happening. this was a spoiled rich kid not a poor gang banger. this was one of theirs. even the taliban doesn’t target 5 year olds. the corporation is a not a person and doesn’t care about persons. only about making the most profit at the expense of everyone and everything. to think otherwise is called socialism in this country. so there you have it. its par for the course. if you don’t like it, move to a sane country. ronald regan destroyed mental health in california and the whole country. these crazy people are on the streets and you are probably related to some of them. they will probably want to move in with you when their benefits are taken away. welcome to the real world.
December 23, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Anonymous
Forest Queen said: “Roll on over and go back to sleep.”
I prefer to be awake, rather than slumbering in a permanent psycho nightmare as you do. Yes, it can be tough to face up to verifiable facts, but I still greatly prefer dealing with reality, as opposed to being ruled and tormented by the kind of wild rumors, speculation, fantasies, delusions and internet hoaxes that make up your batshit crazy world.
December 24, 2012 at 8:48 am
Erasmus
Lately, I regret to say, the quality of comments on this blog has deteriorated. (Where are you, tra? Mitch?). That someone would try to convince us that the shooting in Connecticut was a “hoax” is disgusting. That someone who calls himself a “henchman of justice” (without any awareness of the overtones of such an appellation) thinks that he has enough claim on our time to flood this blog with poorly digested (and ill-written) ramblings is an example of the irritants that nudge many of us away from public spaces where the ‘vox populi’ is increasingly noxious.
December 24, 2012 at 9:33 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
Erasmus,
it is not a “henchman of justice”; rather, it is the “Henchman Of Justice”. My apology for hurting your senses by so-called ill-written ramblings.
HOJ did not know a skilled english professor was (de) grading the comments based upon literary skills, or lack thereof.
Quality of thread = only those allowed to partake? –> Could it be that maybe Eric is not acting like a prick like enough other blog administrators? Inclusion is better than exclusion, imo. Censorship separates and divides, as opposed to bringing together, conjoinment, etc…
Yes, other blog sites are losing the viewership, Many bloggers have taken notice. The media war is “full-on”. Those who censor go down, period.
Anyhow, Happy Holidays, enjoy yourself, be safe and merry, be sincere and honest, get some good sleep and we will all converse again in the future at some point!
Thanks for the blowback, very refreshing to see other posters including themselves in the discussions. – HOJ
December 24, 2012 at 10:04 am
moviedad
Gosh “Erasmus,” I feel left out.
December 25, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Nox Populi
Are blogs public spaces? If they are, is it only temporary and soon to be private, like everything else that was public?
December 25, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Eric Kirk
Nox – blogs can be either. You can create your own blog and make it as public or as private as you want.
December 26, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Forest Queen
Anonymous,
You want to argue with me, and that’s not what we’re here for.
Fact is, neither you nor I were there as “eyewitnesses” to the distraction offered-up, and the predictable days of discussion on details.
I don’t understand your hostility, your degrading use of language, judging, and labeling – - – what’s your point? Stuck in duality?
December 26, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Anonymous
“I don’t understand your hostility, your degrading use of language, judging, and labeling”
And yet you thought it was perfectly reasonable to link to a video claiming that the fact that the father of one of the victims appeared to laugh as he began speaking at a news conference was somehow evidence that the shooting was a “hoax?”
Gee, it seems to me like you’re “judging and labeling” the heck out of that poor guy, and all on the basis of what looked to me like an obvious case of “nervous laughter.” (Apparently you are unfamiliar with the phenomenon of “nervous laughter”… but given your overall level of ignorance, I guess that shouldn’t be surprising).
At least I’m “judging and labeling” you, not just based on one brief moment of expression, in a moment of grief, I’m “judging and labeling” you based on months of seeing your deranged, moronic, paranoid rantings polluting various local blogs.
You really can’t see how making this despicable claim that the shooting was a “hoax”, based on no real evidence at all, comes across as “hostile” towards the father who lost his daughter, and the friends or families of the other victims?
By the way, neither of us was an “eyewitness” to the holocaust in Nazi Germany. Does that mean it’s just as valid to claim none of it happened, as it is to assert that the testimony of eyewitnesses and the balance of the evidence is overwhelmingly on the side that it did happen?
Similarly, I wasn’t an “eyewitness” to the Newtown shooting, but there were scores of survivors, including children, who did see it happen, so and I’m going to take their eyewitness accounts over your speculation. If this fact, or the way I’ve chosen to explain it, is hurtful to your tender ego, well, tough shit. You’ve basically accused one of the victim’s fathers of being in on a “hoax” that killed his daughter. So you are in no position to complain of others being “hostile” towards you.
December 26, 2012 at 10:32 pm
JK
hench·man [hench-muh n]
noun, plural hench·men.
1. an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate, especially a criminal:
2. an unscrupulous supporter or adherent of a political figure or cause, especially one motivated by the hope of personal gain: Hitler and his henchmen.
3. a trusted attendant, supporter, or follower.
4. Obsolete . a squire or page.
Nice. Your handle is rather more honest than I would expect from an NRA shill.
Firearms make people more dangerous.
That is their function.
That is there ONLY function.
They are necessary for some people for hunting, because most humans are unable to catch and kill prey unarmed. This same logic applies to catching and killing humans, even human children. The fact that you would even think of disputing that means you are a liar.
December 26, 2012 at 11:27 pm
Forest Queen
JK,
As you choose . . . stay in duality, “save” and “rescue” mode has ended.
“Firearms make people more dangerous.” Says who? I have a “firearm,”
s o m ewhere. It has not ‘made’ me MORE (?) dangerous. “A firearm’s ONLY function is to make people more dangerous.” Note; my firearm didn’t pass the grade. Perhaps because I’m not dangerous either with or without a firearm.
December 27, 2012 at 7:38 am
bolithio
Well if you dont really know where it is FC, Id say that is inherently dangerous. Prey you don’t have children!
December 27, 2012 at 7:40 am
bolithio
Henchmen –
Stranded
In a life in which your struggle for acceptance
Is a never-ending chore,
Upbraided
For your actions past and present and rewarded for the ideas
Of the future’s bright open door.
The henchman
Is the human analogue of the suffering multitudes
Who like good dogs sit and lick for their reward.
So what good advice have I got for you
To insure against your likely metamorphosis into this reprobate?
Don’t be a henchman,
Stand on your laurels,
Do what no one else does and praise the good of other men
For good man’s sake.
And when everyone else in the world follows your lead
(Although a cold day in hell it will surely be)
That’s when the entire world shall live in harmony.
December 27, 2012 at 8:16 am
Forest Queen
Anonymous,
Boy you waste a lot of time describing your position. I posted a link, with no comments attached, and your choice is to get all butt hurt. Good for you!
If I should EVER feel that I need ‘judged’ by a mere mortal, I’ll rattle your cage.
December 27, 2012 at 8:49 am
Forest Queen
‘Prey’ ???
December 27, 2012 at 9:05 am
bolithio
Just don’t prey on me, noble Queen of Grammar.
December 27, 2012 at 10:18 am
Forest Queen
bolithio,
Yeah it was a ‘react,’ rather than a ‘respond,’ reply. Oh oops!
After reading your comment, I made a point of locating my ‘arm.’ Good point. No, no little ones around.
My children were forbidden to play video games pretty much (other people’s homes – -not under my control). As a ‘bribe’ I’d rent for my daughters some noisy gadget on a Friday night – with the inherent rule that the sound was not turned on whenever I was within hearing range – it worked.
Thinking back, there was never a dull moment. Comedy.
December 27, 2012 at 12:12 pm
JK
Forest Queen.
Says the gun manufacturers…
What would be the point of having a gun if it did not make you more dangerous? It is a tool. A tool with one function. That function is to increase the ability of the user to do harm, just like every other tool that falls under the category of WEAPON. Because of this, and because most people understand this, it can also be used as a threat. BUT, it’s main function is to KILL.
If you are unaware of this you should NOT own one. If you ever pick one up to use it, you should be prepared to kill. If you are not, then you should NOT own one. These are the basic responsibilities of gun ownership.
Because you don’t even know where your gun is means you are unfit to own one. If someone else finds your gun and uses it you will learn a quick lesson in responsibility. (assuming, of course, that you have legally registered your gun.)
December 27, 2012 at 12:38 pm
Forest Queen
JK,
I thanked bolithio two hours ago (that I located said “arm”). What do you [beLIEve that you] want from me?
If people stop knocking back glasses of cog(native dissonance) and two pills of ignorance, things will get solved a lot faster.
December 27, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Anonymous
Forest Queen,
I’ll try to be more concise: You are an obnoxious, hypocritical jerk.
December 27, 2012 at 3:32 pm
Anonymous
People like Forest Queen, who foolishly embrace every cockamamie conspiracy theory that comes along, solve nothing.
December 27, 2012 at 6:44 pm
Forest Queen
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking. What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door, and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose, and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was of hand? . . .The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If . . .if . . We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation . . .We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
December 27, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Anonymous
Unlike Forest Queen, Solzhenitsyn was not a whacko conspiracy theorist. He dealt with facts.
If he and other Russian dissidents had wasted their time with looney notions about gold-fringed flags, admiralty courts, chem-trails and all the other goofy bits of mental masturbation that Forest Queen spews on about, those poor bastards might still be suffering under Soviet rule.
By wasting her time with such utter nonsense, and encouraging others to do likewise, Forest Queen is doing a fine job of propping up the very system she purports to oppose. The fact that she’s obviously unable to recognize that basic fact makes her a pitiable buffoon.
December 28, 2012 at 8:27 am
Forest Queen
Anonymous/Kling-On,
Man is free not to be conscious. You sling junior high school words – You evidentally get off attacking your fellow womb/man – just like a good little programmed debtor/victim/slave. Programmed slave, programmed slave, programmed slave.
December 28, 2012 at 10:58 am
Anonymous
The fact remains: You are obsessed with looney conspiracy theories that distract from real issues. You are free to continue down that deranged path, and I am free to continue to point it out.
December 28, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Anonymous
Forest Queen complains about “junior high school words” and about other people “attacking your fellow womb/man,” and then, in the very same paragraph, turns right around and calls another commenter a “programmed debtor/victim/slave” and starts chanting “programmed slave, programmed slave, programmed slave.”
What a silly hypocrite.
December 29, 2012 at 4:19 am
anon
just checking in here, what a low level of sniping conversation, guess its an improvement on your sad lonely lives…damn! i did it too! goodbye children…
December 29, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Joe Blow
When you start talking about taking away American’s right to self defence, either against another person or the government, you might want to watch this clip: Innocents Betrayed.
The U.S. Constitution is the one thing that grants ever natural born American the LEGAL RIGHT to legitimate existence. It is what separates men and women from living in a jungle – something a practicing attorney should clearly understand and defend. Enforcing power and force over law is in fact treason.
By the way, good job Ernie.
December 30, 2012 at 7:45 am
Anonymous
“When you start talking about taking away American’s right to self defence…”
Well, since no one is doing that, your comment is irrelevant.
December 30, 2012 at 11:35 am
Forest Queen
A fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.
December 30, 2012 at 8:26 pm
Anonymous
You have certainly demonstrated that point well in your 3:50pm comment, where you criticize, condemn, and complain in an exceedingly foolish way.
January 1, 2013 at 9:56 am
"Henchman Of Justice"
In McKinleyville last night, hella gun shots going off, even heard a fully auto somewhere in town…..then cop after cop after cop sped down Bella Vista on central Avenue, narrowly avoiding the black ice death sentence patch. Is it HOJ, or are Humboldt County sheriff’s not trained very well on safety matters relative to driving patterns?
Anyhow, wonder if any Newton Connecticut citizens shot their guns on New Years this year? Probably not because guns were invented by people whom like to kill.
Happy Hella New Year with a bang! So, how many people died last night (ironic how celebrations “mute over” deaths, unless its a public facility during a time of no celebration); or, does the media discriminate based on age, politics and public employment? So confusing are priorities. – HOJ
January 1, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Joe Blow
Well, to each his own. Most of the people in that clip represent over a hundred years of millions of dead defenseless people that believed the same moronic hopes and dreams, speaks for itself. They are as irrelevant as you can get.
January 5, 2013 at 9:53 am
Forest Queen
Ban the pills
Not the guns