Everything Southern Humboldt and more
Great quote from Josh Marshall:
“It’s not the country’s or the Democrats’ or Obama’s problem to solve the GOP’s Grover Norquist problem for them. I see everyone else thinking they need to help pledgers square this circle. They don’t. Not their problem.”
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| Miss Criyant on For a Crisp Spring Saturday… |
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| Narration on How does vinegar mix with tin… |
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| Miss Criyant on For a Crisp Spring Saturday… |
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84 comments
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November 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Anonymous
When was the first time the country was in a deficit?Who gave the government the ability to spend more money than they had.They spent the money plus some not us.They look at us(the tax paying people) like we are spending it.We have no control over their spending other than voting them out but they are all alike and getting worse.
Lance
November 26, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Forest Queen
Help me Rhonda.
November 26, 2012 at 8:22 pm
Anonymous
Geeze Louise. Talk about drivel.
November 26, 2012 at 9:06 pm
Ernie's Place
Norquist’s “Taxpayer protection pledge” was campaign rhetoric and is as obolete as Romney’s promises. It’s all over but the Democratic parties very unbecomimg and tiresome gloating.
November 26, 2012 at 11:51 pm
bob
so, was it the norquist pledge that led to dubya waging the first war in god knows how long(ever?) without collecting more taxes to pay for it?
November 27, 2012 at 6:26 am
Ernie's Place
Yet we are still in Afganistan and the national debt is much worse. Why does it make you happy to stick your head in the sand and blame everything on “Dubya”?
When do the chickens start roosting in Obama’s coop?
November 27, 2012 at 8:52 am
Joe Blow
Sounds like Ernie’s a rather sore loser…
November 27, 2012 at 8:54 am
Joe Blow
Frankly Ernie, you should have figured out by now that Obama is nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing – probably don’t know what that means either.
November 27, 2012 at 9:47 am
Joe Blow
As I read this article “Obama: a GOP president should have rules limiting the kill list“ I thought about Ernie’s questions: “Yet we are still in Afganistan and the national debt is much worse. Why does it make you happy to stick your head in the sand and blame everything on “Dubya”?
When do the chickens start roosting in Obama’s coop?”
While the article does answer Ernie’s questions it also defines most of the participant bloggers love affair with their self-serving political beliefs. Here’s an excerpt: “There’s one final irony worth noting in all of this. Political leaders and political movements convinced of their own Goodness are usually those who need greater, not fewer, constraints in the exercise of power. That’s because – like religious True Believers – those who are convinced of their inherent moral superiority can find all manner to justify even the most corrupted acts on the ground that they are justified by the noble ends to which they are put, or are cleansed by the nobility of those perpetrating those acts.
Political factions driven by self-flattering convictions of their own moral superiority – along with their leaders – are the ones most likely to abuse power. Anyone who ever listened to Bush era conservatives knows that this conviction drove them at their core (“you are with us or with the Terrorists”), and it is just as true of Obama-era progressives who genuinely see the political landscape as an overarching battle between forces of Good (Democrats: i.e., themselves) and forces of Evil (Republicans).
Thus should it be completely unsurprising that Obama (and his most ardent followers) genuinely believe that rules are urgently necessary to constrain Republicans from killing whoever they want, but that such urgency ceases to exist when that power rests in the hands of the current benevolent leader. Such a dangerous and perverse mindset is incredibly pervasive in the citizenry, and goes a long way toward explaining why and how the US government has been able to seize the powers it has wielded over the last decade with so little resistance, and with no end in sight.”
November 27, 2012 at 10:19 am
Anonymous
“Political factions driven by self-flattering convictions of their own moral superiority – along with their leaders – are the ones most likely to abuse power.”
This statement sounds like a perfect fit for the SoHum Community(not) Park board
November 27, 2012 at 10:53 am
bob
“Yet we are still in Afganistan and the national debt is much worse. Why does it make you happy to stick your head in the sand and blame everything on “Dubya”?
When do the chickens start roosting in Obama’s coop?”
I suppose that was directed at my comment Ernie. So far as I know, it’s been common practice to increase taxes to pay for wars. Some of us are old enough to remember the “surtax” paid during the Vietnam era. I believe that’s how Lincoln paid costs for the Civil War, although most of us won’t be able to remember those good old days too clearly.
Obama certainly hasn’t said he wants more taxes to fight the war in Afghanistan–but at least he’s proposed raising taxes on the highest incomes in the country to pay for some of the “safety net.” I’m just asking if it’s stuff like the “Norquist pledge” that kept the US from trying to pay for the war more on a pay-as-you-go basis, instead of adding massive amounts to the deficit we hear has gotten so far out of hand. Interest on the national debt(mostly military spending-related) is the biggest driver of US deficits.
I’m no superfan of Obama’s military policies. He seems all too eager to prove he’s no wimp by acting like an honorary Navy SEAL. There was no Democrat or Republican on the ballot this year that got my vote for President.
November 27, 2012 at 12:59 pm
bob
Ya know, it’s really fabulous to put quotes around someone else’s words and bend them to your own use, but it’s indefensible not to attribute those words to the author. IMHO, iIt’s also selfish and un-communitarian to equate comments about world-wide assassination by the Obama administration with your own narrow perception of our community park. Apples and oranges.
The first time I saw your quotation was in an article by Glenn Greenwald, in the Guardian, wherein he was commenting on the irony of Obama(“our guy” good) using the same military options we so like to hate Dubya (“their guy” bad) for. So far as I know, the words are Greenwald’s.
November 27, 2012 at 3:00 pm
moviedad
“communitarian?” I think I know what it means….it sounds more like a religion than a position.
November 27, 2012 at 3:37 pm
bob
Okay, so how about un-community-oriented–a terrible word conglomeration. I was simply reflecting back the “community(not) comment of a previous poster, and I certainly wasn’t trying to throw marxism into the mix. Apparently wordpress cut off my quotation of anon 10:19′s post:
“Political factions driven by self-flattering convictions of their own moral superiority – along with their leaders – are the ones most likely to abuse power.”
This statement sounds like a perfect fit for the SoHum Community(not) Park board
November 27, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Anonymous
The main reason I pay taxes is for the Military.Not to attack someone but to know we have a defense available.I am sure there is alot of wasted money in the defense budget but what do you expect the Government runs it.
Lance
November 27, 2012 at 7:25 pm
Anonymous
i can totally see ernies point. obama has been continuing this war. which is the cause of our deficit. maybe he wants to get out of it. but so far, he’s not. he was the lesser of two evils. as far as i can see. but the solution seems to escape him as it has all the others. it’s not his job to rule the world, just america.
November 27, 2012 at 7:33 pm
bolithio
Hold on Bob. There is a paramount difference as to how Obama and Bush use military options. They may follow similar threads, but Obama would have never invaded Iraq.
November 27, 2012 at 10:07 pm
erniebranscomb
Joe Blow thinks that I’m a sore loser. Maybe I’m a sore winner.
There are many things that I like about Obama, but just as many more that I don’t like. I won’t give you a line item list, but I’m Glad that he took the opportunity to get Bin Laden. I seriously don’t think that the Afganistan people want us there. I know that some are better off with us there, and some are worse off. You are right Bolithio, Obama would never have invaded Iraq, he won’t even protect an American Embassy.
The one thing that I know for sure, as soon as we leave Afganistan, they will return to their uncivilized tribal brutality. But… the sooner the better.
November 27, 2012 at 11:37 pm
bob
bolithio glenn greenwald makes the point referenced by anon in his/her comment about the community park. there’s nothing in my post or his article that says bush and obama are one and the same.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/26/obama-drones-kill-list-framework
i happen to like the article. do you?
November 28, 2012 at 6:55 am
Bolithio
Obama would never have invaded Iraq, he won’t even protect an American Embassy.
Thats ridiculous too. You really believe that Ernie?
–
Thanks Bob, yes the article is interesting.
November 28, 2012 at 7:21 am
Plain Jane
What would you think about foreign troops guarding their countries’ embassies in the US, Ernie? For obvious reasons, the responsibility for security around embassies belongs to the host country, and there isn’t even an embassy in Benghazi.
Philip Garibaldi in The American Conservative “So anyway, the point is that diplomacy or spying or soldiering in overseas environments can be dangerous business. If an ambassador is actually doing his job there is no way to protect him 24/7, particularly when attackers are willing to die and are armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades. A good ambassador will weigh risk versus gain in going about his business, security versus efficiency. Turning the tragedy in Benghazi into a political football serves no one, least of all those who died, and it leads to the wrong conclusion about what the role of an overseas embassy should be. If it is made completely safe it will also be non-functional.”
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-myth-of-embassy-security/
November 28, 2012 at 9:55 am
Joe Blow
From someone that supposedly came from humble logger roots, these kinds of comments diametrically stand out: “The one thing that I know for sure, as soon as we leave Afganistan, they will return to their uncivilized tribal brutality. But… the sooner the better.”
That is their right, is it not, Ernie?
November 28, 2012 at 10:38 am
Eric Kirk
Romney aide bragging about how he won the votes that really mattered, not the poor and minority votes.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/stuart-stevens-poor-minority-voters.php?ref=fpa
November 28, 2012 at 11:07 am
Unk John
Joe, what was it in Ernie’s statement that made you feel that he doesn’t believe that it is their right to live any way they want? I think he understands that.
I am more in agreement with Plain Jane’s feelings on the embassy, though.
November 28, 2012 at 1:19 pm
Joe Blow
Really? Didn’t come across that way to me. “The sooner the better”? Why? So, the US can go back over there and try bombing them out of existence? “uncivilized tribal brutality” is about as judgmental as anyone can get. It’s these kinds of judgments that are the root cause of war.
November 28, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Joe Blow
Eric, arrogance wins out over prudence every time. The disdain and contempt these people have for their fellow Americans is mind-boggling when you stop to think about it. But then I guess that blacks, Latin Americans and women are really only second-class people to them. And since I’m talking to a lawyer, we wouldn’t want to forget that large segment of non-professional white men either. Of course there is that other class of white men, those small business owners that believe they rise to the same level as the Romney Elites. Small consolation for them though since in the real world they’re treated like the fools they are. Obama is just getting started.
November 28, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Joe Blow
By the way Unk John, after posting here I went over to The Guardian and read Glenn Greenwald’s: Times Bureau Chief in Jerusalem will now have her Facebook entries edited.
Don’t be fooled by the title. He discusses in some detail the mindset, attitude, and inbred prejudice that motivates people to believe they are something, when in reality, they are nothing. He also explains why and how a supposedly “civilized” society can justify butchering thousands upon thousands of women and children.
Eric, since you’ve demonstrated quite a phobia regarding this subject might interest you.
November 28, 2012 at 8:35 pm
erniebranscomb
Bolithio, yes, I really I really believe that.
Plain Jane said: “What would you think about foreign troops guarding their countries’ embassies in the US, Ernie?”
Jane, respectfully, I would hope that if the United States ever becomes so barbaric that we riot in the streets and burn other counties embassies and our military does little to stop it, yes indeed, I would hope that other countries would send in troops to rescue their people.
Joe, logger yes, Humble no.
Afghanistan does have the right to return to the way they were before we showed up. Human Nature and track record does not bode well for them.
November 28, 2012 at 11:13 pm
Unk John
Joe, I really feel silly continuing this, but I am truly perplexed. Why can’t “the sooner the better” simply mean the sooner we get our military out of there, the better off we will be? How do you read into that statement that he would in any way support further aggression against the people of Afghanistan, either now or in the future?
His previous statement about “uncivilized, tribal brutality” is a value judgement, you are right about that. But, when you refer to that statement as judgmental you are implying something sinister or at least that it is ignorant. Maybe you have a different way of describing their culture, but you haven’t really shared that with us.
Yes, Ernie implies a certain disdain for that tribal culture, but he never implied that he would support an attempt to force them to change it. He only asserts that they will return to it once we leave.
Finally, I would just like to say that I understand and share your concerns about the uncivilized behavior of my own country. I don’t like putting words into other people’s mouths, but I am going to take a chance and say that I think Ernie agrees with that, at least in principle. So, what the hell’s the problem?
November 29, 2012 at 7:09 am
bolithio
Ernie, do you mean return to the way they were before we showed up in 2001 or in the 1980s?
Think of a logger in Afghanistan today. How much choice do you really think they have in any of this?
November 29, 2012 at 8:34 am
Ernie's Place
Unk John
It is refreshing to see that I can communicate to at least one person while trying to remain brief enough to fit in a comment format.
While it is true that I have little faith in the Afghan people, because of their lack of education, their treatment of women, their willingness to supply the world with heroin, their willingness to kill people not of their religion, and their unwillingness to change, I still harbor them no malice. Like Will Rogers, “I never met a man that I didn’t like”. It is unfortunate that The United states can’t help them, but the more that we try, the more that they hate and kill us. It is time to admit that we stand little chance to help them beyond what we have already, and move our troops out. Good luck to them. What hasn’t changed in thousands of years is not likely to change when we are gone. I’m sorry my feelings were expressed poorly, but I don’t think that any reasonable person expects them to become a great new and free society based on human rights and a philosophy of benevolence.
Bolithio Said: ”Ernie, do you mean return to the way they were before we showed up in 2001 or in the 1980s? Think of a logger in Afghanistan today. How much choice do you really think they have in any of this?”
Bolithio
I don’t understand your challenging nature. I’ve always spoke well of you… What is not to understand?
I mean the way they were for thousands of years. Their condition is cultural and tribal; if they were raised in a different society they would be different. I think that what I said implied that they had no choice.
I’m sorry, I didn’t read much of what Joe Blow said, I spend too much time trying to understand it and fail. I think that he is just much too smart for me.
November 29, 2012 at 9:00 am
Joe Blow
What the hell’s my problem? Who the hell wants to know?
November 29, 2012 at 9:10 am
Joe Blow
When you figure out “who” wants to know, the answer in Ernie’s own word: “Joe, logger yes, Humble no.” And: “I’m sorry, I didn’t read much of what Joe Blow said, I spend too much time trying to understand it and fail.” His inability or unwillingness to ask a question when demonstrably ignorant of reality. Case in point: “I mean the way they were for thousands of years. Their condition is cultural and tribal; if they were raised in a different society they would be different. I think that what I said implied that they had no choice.”
Everyone has a choice. The issue is whether they chose to exercise that choice or not. “Their condition is cultural and tribal.” Unlike your condition I suppose? By the way what condition would that be? The kind of sub-human condition that’s justified US occupation for over ten years?
November 29, 2012 at 9:18 am
bolithio
Ernie, Im sorry, I dint mean to be antagonistic. Its just I hear statements like that and it bugs me because it doesn’t really paint the whole picture. Thousands of years? A few thousand years ago the arabs named 80% of the visible stars and advanced humanity light years. To just tell them to go back to their “un-civilized” ways is injury to insult considering our level of aiding the very enemies we claim leads to their so called incivility.
Hopefully the point Im trying to make doesn’t lower the way you speak of me =)
November 29, 2012 at 9:18 am
Dave Kirby
I’d just like to point out that the same clowns who are busting Ms. Rice and Obama over Benghazi are republicans. The same party that blocked millions of dollars in spending to up grade facilities and security at our embassies around the world in the last few years. How these assholes have the gall to criticize foreign policy after the disaster in Iraq is beyond me. Oh I forgot a bad case of Bush amnesia that has permeated public discourse from the right.
November 29, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Ernie's Place
Bolithio
All is forgiven. You and I are more on the same plain than you might realize. I am well aware of the great contributions of the Arab world; Persia was once a great and knowledgeable civilization. Other civilizations were also important, historically speaking. China made phenomenal contributions to the growth of knowledge, also Africa, India, Central America, and to some extent South America. One of the more intriguing civilizations would be the Clovis People of North America.
I’m well aware of history, but I am more of a student of Human nature. I am not much influenced by religion and the superstitious beliefs that some people have, so I have a tendency to see everything at face value. I’m not condemning people of faith, they can believe however they want, as long as they don’t force their beliefs on me. I like to keep a clear and open mind. Unfortunately the mere mention of religious, gender, race, or any other differences always invites attack by people on blogs. What makes people tick, and the stories they tell are my passion. However, It is hard to have a productive discussion without getting in to personal attacks.
Bolithio, you are on my bucket list of people that I’d like to have a cup of coffee with. “Narration” is also on that list. And, “ Unk John”. Oh heck, there are actually too many people to name that I would like to meet. I’ve met an amazing amount of amazing people through the blog sites.
I already know Kirby. “Bush Amnesia” is not possible. Ten thousand years from now, when we are all back in caves, there will be a painting on the wall of the cave. It will be a depiction of George Bush and under it will say “The Man who ended it All”. Next to it will be a painting of Kirby. Under it will be “I told you so”. (Sorry Dave, I just couldn’t help myself. I hope you will take it in the humorous nature that it was intended. Blogs are not the best place to poke fun)
November 29, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Unk John
Joe,
Everyone has a choice? Certainly, but those choices are being made by people whose history has not been similar to yours and mine. The Afghan people have lived in a violent atmosphere for some time. They live in a place where other people, some good, some bad, and some very bad have traveled through for centuries. Let’s not forget that Afghanistan is precisely where Alexander The Great stopped his conquering. Part of it because there were troubles with maintaining a supply line, but mostly it was because they were truly bad-asses. They didn’t get that way by acting in a civil manner.
Social systems are in a lot of ways no different from mechanical systems. They don’t change easily. It is in no way offensive to my ear to characterize the people of Afghanistan as different from me. They have survived a long time doing what they do. As you have said, we have been just as brutal as anyone else toward them and until we stop, things will remain as they are. Furthermore, if we truly want to change them, then it is of the utmost import that we help them to EDUCATE THE WOMEN.
Also, Bolithio, you might want to be careful about referring to Afghans as Arabs. They might take offense. The most common languages in Afghanistan are Peshto and Dari. They are closely related to Farsi, but have very little in common with Arabic, other than the alphabet.
November 29, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Not A Native
So Eric, since this thread seems to have gotten off onto the Middle East, how about another thread discussing the various nations positions on the Palestinian application to further their status at the UN?
In particular, I’m interested in how you see these positions vis a vis “Two State” and “One State” concepts that the positions promote, either overtly or covertly.
November 29, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Joe Blow
Unk John: I am always amazed at the stupidity of people justifying my observations. And you wonder what my problem is with the self-important “arrogant” Ernie?
November 29, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Unk John
NaN- Sorry about the conversational drift.
Joe- You always cease to amaze me.
November 29, 2012 at 9:02 pm
Narration
Unk John, I think continental drift is much a factor of conversation in these parts, don’t you?
Joe, I think you really make deep mistakes about other adult men’s social manners and their ‘arrogance’ or intelligence. This is not very far away in principle from someone making mistakes about the nature of some Afghan individuals and societies — something to think about.
As far as the part about people interpreting you, I’ve said it straight before, how you are obscure so that no-one of any education can be confident what you are on about. Then you are going to get misinterpreted, yes, when people try. Getting fiery angry about it each time, and anyway so often on the point of that, is not helping either understanding or respect, though I think most you meet here have good intention on those, when you see it. I think that’s particularly in fact what Ernie does with his social manners, at the same time staking out the right to say just as he sees things and as we enjoy to hear the salt in it that’s there.
Ernie, it would be great to have that cup of coffee. I am just a little far a way, but who can tell when I have the chance to enjoy Garberville again? Would look forward to it.
Best to each; you too, Joe, if you think I am obscure
(Believe it, that I can be, but I am under good discipline in these days…).
November 29, 2012 at 10:00 pm
erniebranscomb
“Joe- You always cease to amaze me.”
Unk, from someone who enjoys subtle wit, that one has me in stitches. I’ll probably grin for the next week!
November 30, 2012 at 7:55 am
moviedad
For the record: I did not mean to give the impression that I didn’t dig the word “Communitarian.” I totally dig-it.
I’m just not sure if I’m a Communitarion of the Bar-B-Que Reformation? Or do I belong to the Modern-Orthodox, Communitarion of the neighborhood pot-luck?
November 30, 2012 at 11:08 am
Joe Blow
Not unlike you in any way, right Narration? When it comes to Ernie, it is simple observations. Ultimately, I have a strong aversion to arrogant, self-righteous hypocrites.
November 30, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Eric Kirk
NAN – I’ll try to put something together over the weekend. As to “two state” vs. “one state,” I’m for the one both peoples can agree to and end what I regard as a stupid tribal conflict at its core.
November 30, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Joe Blow
Eric says: “what I regard as a stupid tribal conflict at its core.” For a lawyer that’s a rather bleak assessment of you, when considering what’s been going on there the past 50 years. Much easier for you to see matters as a “stupid tribal conflict.” The Jews will NEVER agree to any state solution for the Palestinian people – such recognition makes them de facto illegitimate.
November 30, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Ernie's Place
“When it comes to Ernie, it is simple observations. Ultimately, I have a strong aversion to arrogant, self-righteous hypocrites.”
Joe that’s mighty bold talk for an anonymous coward. How’s life behind your wall?
November 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm
Joe Blow
On the Internet I’m as “anonymous a coward” as you are. I’m saving you the trouble of having to suffer through something way beyond your ability to cope with. Too bad you didn’t learn something in 60 years. You looking for an opportunity to show the world your true nature? Your macho talk proves my point about you once again. You should take lessons from Narration. You’re like the Jews Ernie. You’ve had your day. People see you for what you really are. That’s your doings, not mine. I just gave you the opportunity.
November 30, 2012 at 5:09 pm
Narration
Joe, you are digging yourself in deeper.
Yes, I almost always take a kindly eye. I at essence always feel this is best. Is this ‘arrogant’?
And please, no references to when I recentlly tried to discuss sensibly with you about a thoughtful Indian of the past among others, as that went spectacularly badly. To quote another, we’ll just have to agree to disagree there.
I think you want to think a little deeper — and especially, try to reign in your vituperative judgement of other persons.
You won’t hurt me, but you could hurt others. I presume that with all the talk of spirituality, that’s not your willed intent.
Not mine, either. I think you’ll recognize that.
Mostly, I think you’ll see that just about everyone likes to have you at the party. Just when you start ‘blow’ing off. So also everyone treats as a friend, and I am just a beginner at attending here.
November 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Narration
Here are a pair of videos on speaking with Pashtuns, which turned up when I was looking for something else last night.
I’d like to underline that the first one is now used by US forces as a spectacular example of how not to be, nor how to do it.
For myself, it reminds so well of a quite similar conversation with a tribal (village) leader in Korea in early ’70s, where we had a sort of 21st-century installation out in the deep 1000-year rice paddies, and had him come around to personally see why we wouldn’t sell the fertilizing nightsoil which he thought had to accumulate.
We had good Korean-speakers, and not this misunderstanding, but a conceptual one. We finally invited him as far as he could be allowed inside, opened the side-shack doors, and showed him our rocket-science electrical incinerating toilet. Immediately all was understood. I think this village leader is just as wise, attentive, and smart, and so give a few words of what introduced this in Doonesbury’s military weblog, The Sandbox.
“…Afghans are not often direct in the way they speak — Pashtuns especially often use proverbs, allegories, and so on. The phenomenal video below, called “Lost In Translation,” demonstrates how badly this can turn out. An interpreter completely misunderstands the story he’s being told by a farmer [leader] about the presence of Taliban in the area, and relays a completely erroneous translation with his own editorial remarks to a US soldier who is the very model of what we jokingly call “Bad COIN.”
If you don’t get it easily, the parable here is the one he tells about the ‘ants’. Very dangerous ones, and the real problem for everyone, not essential in, but as another bad composition made out of certain cultural parts, just as every culture has made such sometimes out of its parts.
The second video is much shorter and more tame. Notice the striking and crafty young girl negotiating with the woman colonel about handouts. What spirit — and this is what we were once told about Afghans in their desert. It’s those girls who are now targeted to get educations, which sounds like a quite adult story to me.
Here the colonel and youth. Hoping these both work, as I sometimes have bad luck with video links.
December 1, 2012 at 7:54 am
Erasmus
“You’re like the Jews Ernie. You’ve had your day.” — And I look forward to JoeBlow’s imminent departure from this blog (forced or unforced).
December 1, 2012 at 11:15 am
Narration
Erasmus, on Joe’s behalf (and as little as he likes anyone to interpret him), I saw that moment among the other things, and chose not to rise to it.
First, I suspect he meant Israelis, or Zionists, rather that ‘Jews’, with all the freight that would carry.
In that case it’s a particular political movement or view being named. It seems so from the half-hidden context — contemporary affairs in that part of the world and how various points of view are reacting to those.
Looking more widely, one of the things I’ve thought to hear from Joe is that he’s very interested in senses of identifying more perfect persons, which he mentions in the context of ideas from Deepak Chopra which he likes.
There’s with this a constant disappointment not to find anyone actually living up to such images — I was surprised to find he said no one did, at one point, hence my use of the word disappointment.
I confess to being still uncertain what the idea is there, since if no person ever has exhibited any of these qualities, then they are ideals rather than observations of human spirit.
For my part, then the useful view comes again that we all have degrees of such qualities, as potentials, and the same for the earlier history parts of our natures. We grow and mature as we learn to balance them, rising on our better moments to where good sense and the good may show.
Joe gets angry, yes, but as often noted by others, there’s also a searching intelligence, and a decency often there to notice. Perhaps seeking too hard hides the better side too often, which can indeed happen in one way or another to each of us.
My main wish in commenting as I have above is that Joe could calm down a bit about those who are really his friends. It can be tough, living in an area and community in which many come to know each other, and where true outside influence is far away. Many know it’s easy to fall into seeing things as a family squabble, where ‘those others’ just ‘will not’ change their minds and let things get better.
Hmm, strangely enough, a bit how i may also personally see the intertwined struggles of two people abandoned to a desert in contemporary times, both from places where they thought they knew their culture….
To fix that one alone, may indeed require everyone involved, from inside and outside the struggle, to grow a bit in the direction of those ideals mentioned above, equally with the wisdom about never-ceasing imperfection, and about what value may actually be hidden there, in the senses of satisfied human beings.
What we can see, we can do the work, and come to interestingly encompass — for my ideal thought of the day, anyway.
December 1, 2012 at 11:22 am
Narration
A little music for each of our savage beasts – carrying on from what moviedad found on another thread.
Joan Baez herself, as said, I had the chance to see up close a number of times, singing and otherwise. As her intelligent and also voice-talented sister Mimi Fariña mentioned, Joan was the one very driven to be a performer, and I saw often enough where other vision faltered, though I think very often in the midst good intent. She had her youth too.
Here, in a way, I felt she is much closer to her real roots, in the beauty and Latin qualities of the song, ‘I remember Amanda’.
December 1, 2012 at 11:52 am
Narration
Well, one more. You have to be patient to let it begin. This is Richard and Mimi Fariña, Pete Seeger a little accompanying, on television. It’s a nice song, more pointed and adult than first seems, as should be.
December 1, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Plain Jane
Thanks for sharing that, Narration. She has been a lifelong favorite of mine for both her incredible voice and her passion and willingness to put herself on the line. She isn’t perfect but no one is.
December 1, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Plain Jane
That inspired me to dig out the old cassette tapes. I have a lovely boxed set including home recordings and live concerts covering many years.
December 1, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Narration
Jane, glad you found them.
Here are the three parts of a BBC live concert I ran across from earlier years, while looking for what was posted.
I think her voice is at its strongest and purest, listening to parts of the first set — as you say, it’s really something, and you can see how she enjoys what she can do with others.
First Part
Second Part
Third Part
Hope you enjoy these also.
If it’s useful, will mention a practical point on those cassettes you’ve saved — the tape does deteriorate with age and eventually may become fragile. You may want to look into having at least the favorite ones digitized.
I kind of guess with all the musical types up in Humboldt that there will be a shop who will do this for you. There seems to be one in the San Diego area where I am who looks like charging $10/CD for as many cassettes as will fit on the CD, which sounds pretty cheap. They no doubt have a decent machine to do this.
CDs ‘disappear’ in time also, so I’d probably then upload to your favorite freeish net service like Google Music as example; perhaps iCloud if you’re Macish. Troublesome, but that’s how it is sometimes for things we enjoy.
December 1, 2012 at 5:44 pm
bolithio
You two may enjoy some contemporary singers as well, here is Emily and her hamster singing tested:
December 1, 2012 at 5:46 pm
bolithio
Oops linked a playlist, it is the forth song I intended to share.
December 2, 2012 at 6:17 am
Plain Jane
Sweet Narration. I have that concert set in vinyl but no longer have a turntable. Thank you.
December 2, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Narration
Jane, great
Most welcome.
Bolithio, had to wait til this morning to listen, and did to an amount of this girl’s enthusiasm, including 4, but i also liked others. Thanks for posting.
This is surely the ‘folk process’, carrying music on and adding your own over generations, and it is where you start. This girl has very nice enthusiasm, and as others note, she knows her lyrics, and has some guitar accompaniment form and vocal possibility developing — it works.
It’s also surely protest music, in the sense of Robert Zimmerman Dylan and Joan Baez. I was a little surprised to learn then that the songs she’s covering are from a Greg Graffin, apparently (no tv) a long-term serious advocate of science in the culture wars. A protest for this day.
I wish she’d lose the f-words, however ‘authentic’ that probably is felt to be by her age group and suburban moms trying to learn the current world through their teenagers, but that’s just a part of growing and if she wants to go there, professionalism.
As (here we go again — I was fortunate) Mary Travers of PPM told me over the pizza we took them out to, they practiced around a year in some Greenwich Village room before taking their act out to where such polish could do the good. There’s the right time for that too.
Thanks again, Bolithio. I’m still listening to her as I write this. I like how she really appreciates the harmonic ‘hooks’ there are in some accompaniments – maybe she actually invented some she plays; would suspect so, or their emphasis.
December 2, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Narration
Just learned the girl’s name — Emily Davis. Late in the playlist she’s invited up there on stage with Graffin’s lastest version of rock band, Bad Religion, rapping part of the lyrics. So I guess he appreciates her – nice to see.
Actually just now there was a brief clip of their drummer saying very nicely that he’d approved all her Youtube covers, and that ‘you’ should watch every bit of it. You can imagine her smiles
I also liked the hamster…youth is fun, and makes our lives complete…
December 2, 2012 at 12:51 pm
bolithio
Im glad you enjoyed it Narration.
Speaking of folk evolution; you may find this band interesting. They are my current favorite ‘new’ band, hail from Canada – and perfectly blend many forms of folk music with a heavier rock edge. Check it out:
December 2, 2012 at 12:51 pm
Narration
Last on this, but thought you’d maybe enjoy it – by date a little later, and definitely showing some of that development. The song, suits here.
December 2, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Narration
Ha ha, yes, I am enjoying that, Bolithio. Not least for the real polka in it — and klezmer.
The title is simply great: ‘Sleep is for the weak…’
December 2, 2012 at 1:09 pm
Narration
Got to get going, but looks like things moving ahead for Emily. I linked our conversation here, so she can enjoy it.
https://www.facebook.com/eDavisMusic
December 3, 2012 at 8:55 am
Joe Blow
I just love it when effeminate morons try to tell me how to think. I know how the Afghan people feel. Freedom of opinions, never you mind about observations, are everyone’s right, when they don’t expose the corruption and hypocrisy in yours. Whether I make an observation or not, you can’t change the facts or the reality. Branscomb can call me a coward all he wants, but he and I both know who the real coward is and always has been.
December 3, 2012 at 9:53 am
Narration
There you go elliptical again, Joe. And ‘effeminate’? Kind of out of place in the discussions, don’t you think? Even Jane consistently evidences a pretty good left hook.
Freedom of opinions means everyone gets to have one — and gets to answer any others.
I think you don’t feel you get freedom because you don’t get to sit on your Olympian mount and pronounce, without discussion by those you have imagination are plebeian.
So, you insult. As Mitch would have it, I actually think you have things to say and interest in them, when not occluded. This isn’t, you might have gathered by now, from any lack of worldliness or education.
I think you might grow to understand and appreciate your local friends, the ones I grew up with; I keep saying this.
There are many forms of significant and individually gathered education. There are many ways individual experience and thought and time can come to speak, and so often this has the added enjoyment of real wit and interest, in its degrees of fun and wisdom.
More fun, Joe. It’s actually an often enough offered advice of sages. Try and see.
December 3, 2012 at 10:35 am
Narration
I don’t know just why this set of poetry from two people very close to each other appeals for the moment, but it does.
Lots of interpretations suggest themselves, as should be, and certainly not one meaning at all; thus closer to truths.
December 3, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Eric Kirk
Great videos, but taking the thread back to subject for just a moment.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10151146978683869&set=a.430906773868.229225.9258148868&type=1&theater
December 3, 2012 at 10:56 pm
Unk John
Narration- This conversational drift has taken us through some pretty neat stuff. I hadn’t thought about Richard Farina for quite some time. Thanks.
Alas, my stodgy nephew has cracked the whip. I would obey, but I am going to avoid signing up to Facebook as long as I can/dare.
December 4, 2012 at 1:23 am
Narration
Late here, Unk John, have been up editing a Swedish scientist’s resume so he can get a job here, we hope and expect. I liked the drift too, conversational or continental
On the Facebook, I detest it as much as anybody.
What I do is have couple of logins, neither identifiable to me personally, with pseudo names. Then, I keep logged out of them at all times — except when I need something there, or want to comment. Log in, use, log out. I think that’s a pretty safe mode.
Why two logins? Well, to separate personal or somewhat professional lines of thought and identity. You can have more than two, for such purposes, also.
This will work until something like the current ITU meeting manages to get identity brands required of us. I’m familiar with the arguments, but prefer we go on being able to be individual, and anonymous. An ordinary person can have many good and sufficient reasons for this.
See if your stodgy nephew won’t go along with this — and everyone can be happy?
December 4, 2012 at 8:57 am
Eric Kirk
It was just a New Yorker comic panel. No big deal.
December 5, 2012 at 11:49 pm
spyrock
i really like the crystal wind song. thank you. spent some time in woodside this year where joan lives. they played this kind of music in the ernie days. people would ride their horses to the spyrock store play music and party all night. it’s real easy to take the local history out of context. go watch the movie lincoln and get some context. america was built on slavery and not much has changed all these years. i don’t agree with everything people like ernie says, but i completely admire where he is coming from. i don’t expect other people to agree with me. most of you seem to be living in some alternate reality. no one can see the others point of view. there is a unity you all seem to be missing. your community. just do your thing and let those other people do theirs. it doesn’t have to be the same. it’s more interesting if it isn’t. this diversity comes from the same source. there is no gold but this.
December 6, 2012 at 11:43 am
Narration
Much appreciate your thoughts, spyrock. You won’t believe this, but I actually had a kind of dream a few days ago, about a person with a sense of things like yours, who lived up there in the Redway area.
I kind of agree about the gold, and it’s a big interest to understand how we might be able to come closer to it, side by side with other things people feel are realities.
Because I think it can best arrive in a situation that’s side by side.
Best, spyrock.
December 6, 2012 at 3:54 pm
erniebranscomb
I told you that Spyrock was well worth listening to.. except when he disagrees with me…
December 6, 2012 at 6:45 pm
Narration
Ernie: Ha! Spoken like a true denizen of those woods
. I actually had seen some of your old conversations with spyrock, looking for something else a day ago.
Eric: Sorry; yes we trampled your original thread. For a lot of reasons, many of them good, but also I might imagine because Norquist is such a pig. You got me to really look him up, so purpose was served there.
\
On the cartoon, you have to sign in (!) to Facebook (!!) to see it at all — you may not have realized that. When I did sign in, it felt a bit obscure. A little less so, possibly, with one of the suggested add on lines:
Kal Kalifornia: The only phrase that’s missing is “…now get out.”
This might be wrong though – maybe the desk guy is supposed to represent somebody. And actually, one of the comments suggests this Grover isn’t the Grover we’re looking for, though that may be a Jedi trick…
You see, there was paid attention…! Well, one order of those words.
December 6, 2012 at 11:48 pm
spyrock
the mail went to redwine before it went to spyrock. named after the redwine family. i have a few post cards with the redwine stamp on them. that would be my cousin ross in the redway area.
December 7, 2012 at 12:05 am
spyrock
i hear there’s going to be a great concert on hbo on 12/12/12 to benefit sandy. a lot of people are worried about this 2012 stuff. i saw this mayan elder say that what’s going to happen is a portal is going to open because of the alignment direct from the center of our universe on 12/21/2012 that is going to last about 8 minutes. the reason why all the pyramids were built all over the world was to capture this energy and extend it’s effect beyond the 8 minutes. as you know, spyrock is the storage facility for this energy in our area. that pyramid shaped rock on the eel river. the chinese have been planting trees on their pyramids because they don’t want their people to believe in it. it doesn’t really matter if you don’t bellieve. these things have a life of their own.
December 7, 2012 at 10:29 am
bolithio
Eight minutes? Id really like to know where this information comes from.
Ive read a good deal about Mayan archaeology and have visited over a dozen Mayan sites. Nothing I have encountered even remotely suggests that the Mayans predicted the end of the world. My theory, when the calender ends, they were going to have make a new one. Unfortunately their society failed prior to this need of creating a new calender – primarily as result of their apparent agricultural crash. Relying on the over and underworlds it seems does nothing to help with long term soil loss and erosion. They may have worked it out, but the Spanish arrived at the peak of their decline.
December 7, 2012 at 2:05 pm
erniebranscomb
Bollithio
My wife and I had the great priviledge of visiting the Mayan ruins in Belize. We visited Xunantunich the week after Prince Harry was there. Our guide was a Mayan Decendant. He assure us that, yes indeed, the world as we know it will end 12-21-31, on the winter solstice. He told us that there would be nothing that we could do about it and that we should just leave all of our money with him
December 7, 2012 at 2:06 pm
erniebranscomb
12-21-12… SORRY
December 7, 2012 at 3:10 pm
bob
so that’s why i’ve seen you out panhandling recently, ernie
. you left all your $$$ as a tip to your guide in belize. guess i should buy a few more things at your store.
December 9, 2012 at 7:14 pm
spyrock
how long does it take a good mechanic to tune up your car? it’s just an earth tune up. there are quite a few people out there trying to make money off this in many different ways. sounds like one of them got to ernie.