Obama bombed really badly last night, not just in that he looked like he didn’t want to be there, but it reinforces the whole disillusionment around him. It turns out he really doesn’t want to fight. There’s no conviction. Doug Henwood said it this morning, “Romney believes in money. Obama believes in nothing.”
I’m sure Obama will be out of “prevent defense” mode and perform better the next time around. But what was particularly distressing was that Obama obviously knew it wasn’t going well, but couldn’t adapt and improvise. Wouldn’t attack Romney’s flagrant lying. Couldn’t even communicate his talking points well – just rambled on and on about, I’m not even sure what.
A game changer?
Oh, and I hope this is that last time they use Jim Lehrer. He was an empty seat last night, not just for his failure to control the debate, but because his questions were vague, boring, and irrelevant.
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October 4, 2012 at 11:39 am
Erasmus
I heard the debate on the radio and thought that Obama did fairly well. He could have been more incisive in his replies to Romney, but he retained a “presidential” dignity, and he made it clear that the Republican answer to our economic woes is a skein of vagueness, discredited trickle-down pipe dreams, and dodgy statistics. I felt not one twinge of support for Romney after listening attentively for 90 minutes.
October 4, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Mitch
Eric,
We disagree completely on this, though I realize my opinion is not very widespread.
I think President Obama did very well last night, and that it would have been a terrible mistake for him to have been more aggressive against Romney. Not because I don’t think someone needs to call Romney on his lies, but because the President simply cannot afford to look angry. He’s a non-lily-white person seeking reelection in a race where a good clump of undecideds probably know he’s the better leader but can’t swallow the idea of a non-lily-white President.
So Obama’s job was to let Romney evade and lie, to point out that there were evasions and incorrect statements, and to let the rest follow. He’s a smart cookie, probably always the smartest guy in the room, so he probably knows the MSM will trash him for his performance, and that it will fail to point out the Romney evasions and lies. But that’s what his surrogates and campaign ads are for. Obama needs to look Presidential and not scare the white folk. His constraints would be different if he were white.
October 4, 2012 at 12:21 pm
jr
I agree with both Erasmus and Mitch. I thought that this debate was extremely informative because each one put forth their reasons for what needs to be done and not simply resorting to trite talking points. It was a good dialogue between men with different philosophies. If only Jill Stein could have been a part of this debate (and subsequent ones) which would really made for an enlightening debate.
October 4, 2012 at 12:24 pm
moviedad
For the Republicans to rig the election they need the cooperation of the Democrats. Why does it surprise anyone that Obama doesn’t appear to put up much of a fight? The powers-that-be have declared Romney is the next US president. Nothing is going to change that. The Democrats are no friend to working people, they’ve proven this time after time.
I just heard a guy on Link-tv say that 33% of workers make less than $22,000 a year. 50% earn less than $40,000 a year, 80% earn less than $70,000 a year and 99% of workers in America earn less than $200,000. a year. (The Great Heist: Who Stole the American Dream.) I think that is a pretty good jumping off point on where to draw the line between the wealthy, and the rest of us. And you can put practically every single federal politician on the side of the wealthy. Nothing is going to change for the better until people wake up from this fantasy that salvation is coming to them from one of the wings of the party of the rich. Please spare me the lecture on Obama’s financial status. That is not the point. Lot’s of people who do not belong to the club, further the objectives of the club. Obama has no intention of upsetting his paymasters. Of which the most powerful is Goldman-Sachs.
How long did German Jews hold out in faith that the German constitution was going to save them in the 1930′s? These naive notions of fairness and justice means nothing to the aristocracy. They despise fools who believe in such things.
There’s a domestic war going on against the working class. The ruling-elite are already fighting it while the working-class is still playing “good-cop/bad-cop.”
I respect your opinions. I’d love to have my mind changed. But I’ve already taken the red pill. There’s no going back for me.
October 4, 2012 at 12:28 pm
Not A Native
Well Eric is unhappy with Lehrer? WAAAH
I think Lehrer did well, trying to get a conversation going and refereeing when either candidate diverged from the point, even interrupting them when necessary. I guess Eric will be happier if Romney is elected and eliminates Federal support for PBS, Lehrer’s patron.
And how come no props for Obama holding his ground, getting additional time by chiding Lehrer for interrupting him and taking away the time that was on the clock? That was thinking on his feet.
Yeah, Barack seemed more tired and less eager to ‘mix it up’ than Mitt. Whether that means he ‘lost’ is a matter of opinion. If you like a president to be dignified, unrelenting, and factual, Obama met that mark.
October 4, 2012 at 12:34 pm
bolithio
Its the resonation of the media and pundits that ensure Romney “won” the debate. If you didnt bother to fact check what Romney said, it might appear that he articulated a solid critique of Obama and how he could make things better. Its just that his economic plan is mostly make believe from what Ive been reading. Does the avenger so-called undecided/independent get that?
October 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm
bolithio
Average the Avenger! The newest super hero; the Common Man!
October 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Mitch
OK, moviedad, I’ll bet you a beer that Obama wins. I wouldn’t mind meeting you, anyway.
October 4, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Anonymous
I saw about 10 seconds of the debate, of Obama talking. He had bags under his eyes. Poor make-up to say the least. It’s like Nixon’s unshaven appearance. It doesn’t matter what you say if you look physically bad saying it. Romney looks like a shiny plastic villain from the Power Rangers.
October 4, 2012 at 1:03 pm
Eric Kirk
I still think Obama’s going to win, but I was extremely frustrated watching him last night.
As were others.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/sasha-obama-asks-father-why-he-was-acting-like-suc,29795/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post:headline:default
October 4, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Ernie's Place
Romney walked around every trap that Obama had laid for him before it was sprung. Romney was extremely prepared and Obama was under-prepared and he knew it, it showed in his face.
The real kicker that Obama was unable to dodge was the fact that the average American Makes $4,300 dollars LESS a year under the Obama administration. That doesn’t say a whole bunch about the “Jobs that he created”.
The president shot himself in the left foot last night. I expected better. He depended too much on his sweet line of gab.
October 4, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Ernie's Place
I’ve always wondered, are left handed people more likely to be Democrat?
October 4, 2012 at 6:30 pm
Sally
In my humble opinion, Obama went in, prepared to debate the Mitt Romney of the past year, only to see his “stunt man” Etch-a-Romney. A few weeks ago, I watched an old youtube excerpt of the Carter-Reagan 1980 debate, in which Ronnie just stood on the stage grinning, and every time it was his turn to speak, he looked at Carter, and said “well, there you go again!”. Romney seems to have spent some time practicing in the mirror to re-produce Reagan’s smile and facial expression for last night’s debate, but there was so much bully and frat boy mixed in, I doubt if any swing voters were convinced. Yes; Obama should have had a triple-shot espresso before the debate. Perhaps Sasha’s psuedo-scolding on the Onion will inspire him.
October 4, 2012 at 7:44 pm
Bunny
Hey Ernie, Wanna bet?
October 4, 2012 at 9:42 pm
ED Denson
I thought Obama did fairly well, although I would have liked him to call Romney a bit more on the crap. But Romney looked to me like he was insincere, nervious, and a man who knows he is losing – and has known it for weeks. I found him entirely unconvincing, and not credible. Needless to say I was surprised by the reactions on MCNBC after the debate. It seems according to a graph I saw on the internet that 25% of viewers shared my conclusion that Obama won, and 67% thought Romney won. Reminds me of the old song lyric “We live in two different worlds…..”.
October 5, 2012 at 7:22 am
Mitch
My all time favorite political movie is Bob Roberts. The movie deals with the question, can an obviously full of shit, smarmy, lying, handsome folk-singing sociopath beat a decent man at becoming president. Gore Vidal plays Obama, and “Bob Roberts” even has Romney’s hair style. I won’t give away the ending, but here’s my favorite song from the movie:
October 5, 2012 at 8:39 am
Eric Kirk
Enter the Jobs Truther Movement.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/job-truthers-jack-welch-bls.php
October 5, 2012 at 9:16 am
Anonymous
Most of you all must have been watching a different debate than me ! Romney clearly won, despite some of the comments from the local Kool Aid drinkers.
Don’t know if Obama will win re-election. I sure hope not. During the debate Obama looked down and his shoes and wasn’t able to think on his feet. I guess hanging out with JZ or visiting the View has not prepared him for stimulating conversation AKA a debate on the issues. Maybe next time they will give him the questions ahead of time and he can use his teleprompters?!
Obama will be better prepared for the next one. But so will Mitt ! With a little luck President Hollywood will lose his cool and we will get to see some real fireworks.
Could you tell me with specificity what Romney “flagrantly lied” about ? And maybe a reference to prove your point?
October 5, 2012 at 10:57 am
Mitch
Sure 9:16,
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/10/obama_mitt_fact-checked_by_own_campaign.php?ref=fpblg
That’s just for starters, of course, but it’s funny that Romney was called out by his own campaign as far as his debate deception surrounding the handling of pre-existing conditions.
If you do the slightest bit of non-Fox, non-Newsmax looking around, you’ll see that part of Obama’s problem is he’d say Romney was lying, Romney would say he wasn’t, and things got left there. What do you do, shout “yes you are, liar, liar, liar!”?
If you actually bother to check, you’ll see that Romney’s lie list was extensive. I don’t expect the MSM to be of much assistance, but the Obama campaign has proven itself able to get the message out in alternative ways, and then the MSM eventually covers that. The President must have judged that there was enough time remaining to allow that process to unfold.
October 5, 2012 at 11:27 am
Joe Blow
Obama did exactly what he wanted to do for the exact reasons he wanted done. He comes out of the so-called sham debate looking good, which is he cares about. Just look at how he’s acted since.
October 5, 2012 at 11:33 am
Joe Blow
The only problem with moviedad’s analysis is that the Elite Oligarch ruling this country need Obama to finish the looting. Romney can’t get that job done. The American voter would see what he’s doing right away and try to block him. Of course a shooting war with Iran makes everything irrelevant anyway. Obama would probably cull the elections and put everything under a war footing and martial law. End of story.
October 5, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Joe Blow
For those that would broaden their intellectual capacity about the fraud that is being universally propagated upon the American people I offer this link:
The US presidential debates’ illusion of political choice -
The issue is not what separates Romney and Obama, but how much they agree. This hidden consensus has to be exposed.
October 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Not A Native
As usual, for Eric its all about popularity. When caught out, he justifies his assessments by trotting out their true source, other people’s opinions. I bet Eric can’t go to the bathroom until he first knows that someone else thinks its a good idea.
October 5, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Mitch
A few things they don’t agree on come to mind:
1) whether all Americans should have health insurance;
2) whether tax relief for the middle class should be dependent on lower taxes for millionaires and billionaires;
3) abortion rights;
4) don’t ask don’t tell;
5) gay marriage rights;
6) the WAY in which American military power is projected overseas;
7) the relative importance of engaging in diplomacy vs. threat;
8) whether oil companies should be subsidized by the taxpayer;
9) whether the next Supreme Court appointee should move the court to the left or right on social issues;
10) whether Social Security and Medicare should be turned into voucher programs and/or diverted to Wall Street
There are some things about which they probably agree. But I can only think of two.
1) Wall Street is too powerful to take on, even when you’re President;
2) So is the top 1% of the top 1%
These last two lead many people, I think, to assert there’s no difference. But I still see a difference.
October 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Eric Kirk
As usual, for Eric its all about popularity. When caught out, he justifies his assessments by trotting out their true source, other people’s opinions. I bet Eric can’t go to the bathroom until he first knows that someone else thinks its a good idea.
NAN, you’re even more incoherent than usual. What are you talking about?
October 5, 2012 at 9:00 pm
Anonymous
Eric, would you start a thread on the SHCHD board elections? Who are the people running? What are their reasons for running? A local political issue that affects a lot of us.
October 6, 2012 at 10:21 am
Twigs
I’m in on the disagreement side. This is like measuring a child’s entire success in school by one test, given on one day, at one particular moment in time. Although Obama’s and adult and America loves the winner and forgets the second-place holder I think you’ve overestimated the impact and underestimated the audience.
Obama didn’t attack Romney. The media tends to attack Obama for being too intellectual yet in the same breath we complain because he didn’t take Mitt into the back yard and beat him intellectually senseless.
I knew every time Romney distorted stuff. I particularly liked the beginning part where he took Obama to task for not being “rough” enough to get something done in Congress and then, when talking about Obamacare, complained because Congress got bullied by Obama. I didn’t need Obama to point that out. Most Americans tuning into those debates probably wouldn’t.
Statistics and complaining Obama hasn’t done enough in the face of GOP wall of obstructionism does make Mitt a winner. Meanwhile denying the enormous value of passing healthcare, the need for government spending (government jobs like firefighters and others) as long as the private sector isn’t spending to create the demand for all those new small businesses he proposes to create, makes him facetious at best.
What made Mitt a winner and Obama a “loser” is us and the way we process a concocted televsion spectacle designed for minimal information and maximum sound-bites into “winners” and “losers”. This event is designed for losers. The American public who buys into short almost meaningless entertainment rhetoric and presentation as an exceptable venue to vet the President of the United States.
It is realistic to see Obama showing signs of wear and tear after what the man has had to deal with over four years. I don’t want a man with a mask and facade. I may not have liked Obama’s performance but it was stellar in comparison’s to Mitt’s. Even if the media refuses to recognize the realities of the situation so that more people will tune in for the next month.
October 6, 2012 at 1:21 pm
Dave Kirby
I doubt anyone on this blog is going to change their vote due to debate performance. Which brings the question again to why would anyone but an undecided voter even watch this crap? I know Eric said he has watched every convention since they actually decided anything. And he is obviously upset about Obama’s performance in the debate. Eric do you and your kids a favor and have your wife hide the remote before the next debate. Go see a movie or hit the bowling alley you’ll live longer and be easier to get along with. Needless angst is not a good thing. Find your center little weed hopper and bathe in the radiant light of serenity.
October 6, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Anonymous
Lehrer is too much of a gentleman for that position. Dan Rather would have been much better for the role.
October 7, 2012 at 8:07 am
Bolithio
I was thinking about the debate; remember the part when Romney said something like; “you keep saying we provide incentive/tax breaks to companies to go over seas. Ive been in business for 25 years and I don’t know what your talking about. Maybe I need a new accountant..” Or something like that. The implication was that if there was an opportunity for tax evasion on foreign soils that he would fully take advantage of it. Did any one catch that?
October 7, 2012 at 8:14 am
Erasmus
People with a modicum of education don’t say (or write) “what your talking about.”
October 7, 2012 at 8:33 am
bolithio
OK Erasmus. I have to debate your point, not defending Mitt, but other people I know who in conversation use cultural born slang and euphemisms. Such choice of words has nothing to do with the education of the individual. Social-background perhaps…
Remember when Bush was elected twice? Most people dont want to speak to each other like text book authors.
October 7, 2012 at 8:48 am
Lib poser
Ha ha ha! He already got his welfare check and permanent disability, why work anymore! People voting for the other guy don’t want government checks, would rather work for a living without belonging to the mob(union.)
October 7, 2012 at 10:41 am
Erasmus
I remember Bush all too well —- and anything that might encourage emulation of him I deplore.
October 7, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Twigs
@Bolithio. There are tax breaks. That was at best misleading and most likely a lie. An analysis of Mitt Romney’s use of his 401 k by the NYT explained it in full detail how tax breaks are given. Or at least breaks that tax accountants can manipulate and use for this purpose (loopholes).
October 7, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Get Hope, Fire Obama
Eric called it in the first paragraph. Even most of the liberal media gave the debate to Romney. At least Eric is being objective, the rest of you can’t look past your biases to see that many people are not buying Obama’s gift of gab anymore.
Obama failed to be a president for all people.
Most of you seem to think the President should be more concerned about social issues and your view rather than what is best for all Americans. Privileged liberals love to advocate for others as long as it isn’t their money. People like Joe Blow insult and condescend. I have yet to read anything by you Joe where you are not so high and mighty.
To paraphrase Romney, You are entitled , to your own opinions and to your own view of who should be President, but not that your choice is the infallible choice?
October 7, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Eric Kirk
It looks like Friday’s jobs numbers stabilized the polls for Obama. He’s still in the lead, but by a lesser ,margin.
October 8, 2012 at 7:12 am
moviedad
It sure looks like Obama is going along with the program. He didn’t even put up a fight. How can you doubt that he’s not taking a dive? Like I said earlier, they can’t fix the election without the complete cooperation of the democrats. And it looks like they have it.
October 8, 2012 at 8:42 am
Eric Kirk
The NYT is reporting that he was having troubles during debate prep.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-often-struggled-in-debate-prep-had-to
There’s no excuses though. If you want to win a Presidential election, you have to be ready.
October 8, 2012 at 9:36 am
Joe Blow
Obama has four years of betrayal on the record and everyone expects something different now?
October 8, 2012 at 12:54 pm
HUUFC
Obummer, and bite me need to watch this budget video.
http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/EW5IdwltaAc?rel=0
October 8, 2012 at 8:47 pm
Ernie Branscomb
I’ve been out of the loop lately, but now I’m back. I’m very cautious not to believe in anything not solidly based in fact. I think that any open-minded person, whether Democrat or Republican, would have to admit that Romney won the debate. That was clear to me when I watched it. Now, after a few days of reflection it is clear that even a few people already in Obama’s camp have changed their minds and joined the Romney camp.
As to my dear friend (really) Bunny wanting to “bet”, I will be happy for Bunny if Obama wins. (really) However, as to the accusations that Romney lied about his tax plan, or Obama lied about closing Guantanamo, only spin artists and fools would give campaign rhetoric any credence. They are only truth or lies as the game plays out. The facts are that the polls changed, the poles say that Romney won the debate, and his popularity surged. The main fact that I got from the debate is that the average American’s income is $4,300.00 less under the Obama administration. Too bad for the Obama fans, and good for the Romney fans.
Being one that only accepts reality; I confess that I know full well that October holds many more surprises. I’m personally surprised that Eric was willing to “call it” for Obama, it sounded an awful lot like wishful thinking…
October 8, 2012 at 9:07 pm
Ernie Branscomb
I thought that Jim Lehrer did a perfect job as moderator. I like the format where the debate is allowed to unfold just like any other competition, he allowed the flow, and called the fouls. The candidates got to prove their Presidential metal. I Particularly DON’T like the League of Women Voters debate format. They insert controls that would not be normal in the real world. Jim Lehrer allowed the debate to unfold like it should have.
October 8, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Eric Kirk
Oh, I still think Obama is going to win it Ernie. As poorly as Obama did in that debate, he did better than Reagan did against Mondale in the first debate and better than Bush did against Kerry. Intrade still has Obama at a 63 percent chance of winning, and while the PEW poll gives Romney a big movement, the tracking polls over the weekend clearly had Obama’s numbers stabilizing after Friday’s jobs report. Elections are rarely won or lost on a debate despite the mythology of 1960, 1980, and 1992.
The media has been begging for a horse race, and now they have one. But the pundits were writing Obama’s obituary every other debate during the 08 primary, but then he would come back and hold his own against Clinton in the next.
Why Romney will probably lose Ohio is that despite the fact that Romney is spending twice as much money as Obama there, Obama has three times as many people on the ground in terms of a campaign. They’re knocking on doors, writing letters to the editor, making phone calls en masse.
I’m not saying Obama can’t lose, but the press corp on Romney’s plane claims that they were deflated with the jobs report Friday morning – which wasn’t just a one time thing. The jobs reporst for the summer were revised upwards, and it appears that despite the bad news of the initial reports, the consumer and economic confidence polling was positive – which means that something is happening on the ground that hadn’t been measured. People are finding work.
The next debate between Obama and Romney is a town hall format, where Obama did very well against both Clinton and Romney four years ago. And foreign policy is going to be discussed in both. According to Maddow’s guest tonight, some Republicans are wincing at the amateurishness of Romney’s foreign policy presser today, and the lack of substance. Maybe Obama will bomb two in a row, but that wasn’t his pattern in 2008 against Clinton.
October 9, 2012 at 7:18 am
erniebranscomb
Anyway, it makes no difference how you or I vote, in California all of the electoral votes will go to Barack Obama, all 22. I think this year I will vote for Rosanne Barr, she is probably less likely to cave in to the ultra-wealthy that really run everything. I find it humorous that the Democrats were all up in arms when Bush won the Electoral College, but lost the popular vote. The Dems don’t seem to mind a bit when California’s entire vote goes to Obama. It makes the game more interesting to have the Electoral College involved, but it certainly isn’t fun knowing that your vote doesn’t count for diddley.
October 9, 2012 at 8:18 am
Eric Kirk
I would be all for a proportional result, where you get electoral college votes proportionate to your vote, rouding up in favor of the one who gets the highest number of votes. Or something like Nebraska and Maine. But California won’t do it by itself. Maybe a simultaneous bill would work sometime – where California agrees to turn simultaneously with Texas and a couple of other red states.
October 9, 2012 at 8:44 am
Joe Blow
Eric Kirk’s solution: Mob rule. Ernie Branscomb’s solution to reality: Dreams conjured up in his little mind. Good going guys. Love the brainwashed propaganda you never stop pumping out.
The most truthful statement I’ve read from either of you two, “it makes no difference how you or I vote.” Other wise there wouldn’t be just a vote for Obama or Romney. Live and learn you two – Well, live anyway.
October 9, 2012 at 9:39 am
erniebranscomb
Joe, you are right again. My “little brain” can’t figure out what the hell you are talking about. Maybe you explained in once, in clear detail, and I was too dumb to notice.
So… who do you recommend that we vote for. This is your big chance to sway the vote for your favorite candidate.
October 9, 2012 at 10:57 am
Joe Blow
If true what you say about yourself, why should I bother? Where did you get the idea that I “recommend” someone to vote for? See what I mean?
October 9, 2012 at 11:06 am
Joe Blow
About your question, here’s a hint anyway. Two choices for catastrophe, one on a high-speed rail to hell, the other a bit slower. So vote away.
Election year garbage
“Whatever is awful about the US political process is magnified in the election season, and increases each day until it’s mercifully over.”
October 10, 2012 at 12:02 am
bob
ernie, how’d you come up with 22 electoral college votes for our great state? that’d put us in the pack with ohio or indiana, instead of numero uno with 55 votes.
am i missing something–i’ve been in a lot of pain today and maybe i’m not thinking too clearly, if that’s something i can do anyway.
and i don’t think that our votes are all that don’t count for much in statewide matters. the rest of the state doesn’t seem to pay a whole lot of attention to little old sohum for most things. i guess we’ll just have to be satisfied with rivers and mountains and forests and … …each other.
October 10, 2012 at 2:18 pm
erniebranscomb
Oops, I knew that. I must have glanced at the list upside down.
October 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm
erniebranscomb
However, I believe that the 2010 census is the first in California’s Electoral College history that we have not gained a new vote. It remains at 55.
October 10, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Dave Kirby
Back in the 70s I went to a fund raising coffee clatch at a friend’s house. The speaker was a P.R. guy for a ballot proposition that had something to do with a nuclear power plant moratorium. When this guy was done I staggered out the door really depressed,,,,,Could it be that if this thing doesn’t pass it will ” be the end of the world as we know it”? It didn’t pass and the world is pretty much the same as it was but a little more crowded.
October 10, 2012 at 8:11 pm
bob
“Oops, I knew that. I must have glanced at the list upside down.”
thought maybe it was me spending time standing on my head …
October 10, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Eric Kirk
Dave – I believe that was probably Proposition 15 which was defeated (the same year of the fateful Proposition 13). What it would have done was to hold power companies liable for nuclear accidents on a strict liability basis, and I think require insurance coverage for the same (the opposition argued that it would be cost-prohibitive, which was probably the case). A lot of people misunderstood the proposition as a moratorium or even ban on nuclear power.
October 11, 2012 at 2:52 am
johnnkirk
@Joe Blow. -”Eric Kirk’s solution: Mob rule.”
Yes, Joe, democracy is a form of “mob rule”, even our representative republic is basically “mob rule” with checks & balances. What are you advocating? Tyranny? Plutocracy? Maybe a nice Oligarchy?
Other than bitching about how stupid everyone else is compared to you, do you have any functional, coherent thoughts? I agree people can be stupid and vote in ways that are self destructive. Do you have any specific, accurate, arguments that explain why Eric’s analyses are flawed?
If you believe so, post it.
October 11, 2012 at 10:25 am
Joe Blow
Johnnkir: “Yes, Joe, democracy is a form of “mob rule”, even our representative republic is basically “mob rule” with checks & balances.”
The flaw is in your comment! There is NO such thing as “our” representative republic. Everyone you vote for is owned and controlled by the plutocracy running this country. That was my point. You want to call “mob rule” a Democracy. There are NO “checks and balances.” That’s an illusion. Get therafter out of your own eye BEFORE trying to judge others. Stupid is as stupid does, buddy.
October 11, 2012 at 10:29 am
bob
hey joe
QED
October 11, 2012 at 3:55 pm
johnnkirk
Actually Joe, there IS such a thing as “our” representative republic. We live in it. Just because YOU personally are unhappy does not mean the entire system is compromised.
You are like many myopic, pseudo intellectuals on the left and right who don’t bother to put the work involved in actually understanding the issues, so declaim the whole thing as being “broken.”
“They are all the same!” “There’s no point getting involved because nothing ever changes!” “Whaaa!”
That’s a complete load of horseshit. One person not killed is a difference. One person with food or medicine, instead of without, is a difference. One person not tortured is a difference.
You are pathetic, and yes, I judge you. Ignorant people can be wrong, but what stupid does is NOTHING, and it justifies it by saying it is too dumb to see any difference anyway. Well Joe, some of us DO see the difference and we care. It doesn’t matter how little the change is, or how hard it is, you ALWAYS fight to make things better. You think anyone respects someone who says “things aren’t the way I think they should be, so all the rest of you are stupid!”
If you ever actually form a real opinion on a specific issue, based on factual details, maybe you will begin to understand why people who dismiss everything as being an “illusion” are douche bags.
October 11, 2012 at 5:49 pm
bob
johnnkirk i don’t think there’s an “h” in waaaa!
October 12, 2012 at 7:02 am
bolithio
Everyone you vote for is owned and controlled by the plutocracy running this country.
Including you Joe. Are you seriously that much of a hypocrite?!! You are constantly telling us that we are responsible for all the crooks we have elected, then you turn around and say we have no control. Perhaps if you didnt spend so much time trying to fit people into your preconceived notions and judgments, you would not get caught in your own word traps.
And before you leap to defend yourself with mean words – consider:
You could be friends with all of us – and we could work together to solve the problems of the world – but that would require you to accept us for who we are for once.
October 12, 2012 at 9:29 am
Joe Blow
The great thing about believers is that they all believe in that lunacy they pour out on everyone. Here’s a good example: “You could be friends with all of us – and we could work together to solve the problems of the world – but that would require you to accept us for who we are for once.” I did accept you for what you are. That’s your problem. Maybe it’s time for you to try to practice what you preach, bolithio.
The joke is on you when you believe that your vote puts YOU in control. The so-called “problems of the world” will solve themselves soon enough. The looting is nearly complete. It is gratifying to see, though bolithio, that you do understand the paramount issue. That truly makes it all worthwhile.