Okay, maybe it’s because I’m listening to it on the radio, but if you put aside the brief Ron Paul uprising and the racist incidents, this has got to be the more boring convention ever! And that’s really saying something, because with one or two exceptions I find them ALL boring.
Addendum: Okay, it’s not so boring anymore.
I missed Ryan’s speech tonight, but at the gym I got to watch the talking heads waxing on about it. Apparently all of them agreed, including the ex-RNC guy Michael Steele, that Ryan lied when he blamed Obama for the closing of the GM plant in his home town – it closed under Bush. They all agreed it is is a lie, but they marveled with respect over the masterful way he delivered the lie, and how effective it will be with undecided voters who don’t care about the fact checking.
Seriously, WTF???
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August 30, 2012 at 6:39 am
bolithio
I listened to Condie Rice’s speech, and I really believe that she is an alien. How can you lie like that?
August 30, 2012 at 7:11 am
moviedad
Sure it’s boring. Until they burn down the Reichstag.
August 30, 2012 at 7:13 am
Dave Kirby
I don’t understand why anyone other than the faithful would listen to or watch the reeps convention. Haven’t you guys seen and heard enough. There must be a detox site for political junkies somewhere. I suggest you go there and get your life back.
August 30, 2012 at 7:23 am
Mitch
You’re suddenly wondering that campaign lies don’t get pushback from the corpse? Where have you been?
Every candidate that’s paid a bit of attention has learned from Swift Boats that lying is fun and profitable. Unless they had some crazy belief that telling the truth might make it easier to interact with people in the future, why would any candidate tell the truth? And today’s Republicans aren’t worried in the slightest about the need to deal with opponents, so lying is not a problem.
I picture Rove and some flunky placing bets on which lies will cause some little whimper from Mother Jones or some other publication that undecided voters have never heard of. Hilarity ensues.
August 30, 2012 at 7:50 am
Eric Kirk
It’s one thing for there not to be a pushback, and they did factcheck the speech. It’s that they were heaping praise for Ryan’s ability to lie, as if it is a virtue. And the fact that there is about a seven or eight percent undecided vote out there who “don’t care about the factchecking.”
Dave – I am a junkie. I’ve listened to every Republican and Democratic convention since 1984.
August 30, 2012 at 7:53 am
Mitch
“heaping praise for Ryan’s ability to lie”
Why wouldn’t they, if they are covering reality. After the ability to get money from the ultra-wealthy, it’s the most important political skill in the United States. Wouldn’t want to be judgmental, after all. They’re pundits, not preachers; gasbags, not moralists.
August 30, 2012 at 8:03 am
Eric Kirk
It does appear that the lying reached a threshold beyond even what the mainstream media can take. There’s a bit of a backlash.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/paul-ryan-convention-speech-media-backlash.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/08/will_the_liar_thing_break_through.php?ref=fpblg
Which gives Obama an opening. Will he or his SuperPAC supporters take it? Has to happen now, to put Ryan on the defensive today. Not tomorrow. Not next week.
August 30, 2012 at 8:17 am
Eric Kirk
Looks like Obama’s taking the offensive. Got this email this morning.
Eric –
If you’ve seen any coverage of Paul Ryan’s speech in Tampa, you know that the consensus among journalists and independent observers is that it was … factually challenged.
He lied about Medicare. He lied about the Recovery Act. He lied about the deficit and debt. He even dishonestly attacked Barack Obama for the closing of a GM plant in his hometown of Janesville, Wisconsin — a plant that closed in December 2008 under George W. Bush. He also failed to offer one constructive idea about what he would do to move the country forward.
Don’t roll your eyes. We can’t just groan and shrug and remark to our like-minded friends that this is ridiculous, because this is a significant moment in this campaign.
The fact that this speech, on this huge stage, is this blatantly false represents a huge bet by the Romney campaign — they’ve decided that facts, truth and reality will not be a brake on their campaign message. And they just signaled to the extremist billionaires and corporate interests that support them that they should go ahead and spend their hundreds of millions of dollars attacking Barack Obama with whatever lies can work.
The only thing that can beat this back is you:
https://donate.barackobama.com/Paul-Ryan
More soon.
Messina
Jim Messina
Campaign Manager
Obama for America,
August 30, 2012 at 8:18 am
Anonymous
What the fuck is a “factual shortcut?” Is that media-speak for “lie.” I wonder how Vaclav Havel would describe today’s American press.
August 30, 2012 at 8:20 am
Mitch
What the fuck is a “factual shortcut?” Is that AP for a lie? I wonder what Vaclav Havel would have made of the drek put out by the corpse.
August 30, 2012 at 8:21 am
Eric Kirk
But it does appear to be pushing back, which says something about the speech. I think Ryan’s mistake was to give a lie that is so easily and simply debunked. Lying about welfare reform and deficits – that can all be subject to interpretation and all. But when word gets out that the plant closed in 2008, it may actually put Ryan on the defensive.
Thing is, he’s been giving that line for several weeks now.
August 30, 2012 at 8:30 am
Mitch
The entire campaign has been built around a misquote of the President. No mainstream media is saying that.
August 30, 2012 at 8:59 am
Eric Kirk
No, but this is more simply debunked. No explaining. Ryan’s advocates are now being forced to explain that he didn’t really say it was Obama’s fault that the plant closed, but only that Obama made a false promise to keep it open. Even dumb people are going to roll their eyes over that one.
It’s now being called “the Janesville Lie.” The name “Lyin Ryan” is being passed around the lib talk shows. Ed Schultz is talking about a town hall meeting in Jaynesville. Unless Romney’s speech derails the discussion tonight, this could be an issue.
August 30, 2012 at 9:23 am
Mitch
Look at this: http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/GOP-rips-Obama-with-his-ill-chosen-words-3826101.php
The reporter treats an out and out lie as if it’s a debatable issue, quoting some jackass saying it’s “fair game.” It’s just completely disgusting, and it’s why no American should trust American professional media. It abdicated its responsibilities and put its brain on the back shelf long ago.
August 30, 2012 at 9:30 am
Eric Kirk
This will piss you off even more Mitch.
http://core.talkingpointsmemo.com/tv/videos/cable-news-skirts-whether-paul-ryan-lied-in?ref=fpblg
August 30, 2012 at 10:18 am
Jest sayin'
When I take control of the universe, all politicians will be required to inhale helium before speaking… wouldn’t you love to see the preziduncial debates conducted on helium?!
August 30, 2012 at 10:20 am
Mitch
Impossible, Eric. Sadly, that would be impossible.
August 30, 2012 at 11:04 am
Joe Blow
Eric, as a practicing lawyer you’ve got a problem serious substantive issues and lying? What ever happened “to each his own”? “If you believe it, it’s the truth?” And “if you repeat the lie enough times it becomes the truth”? These people are “Believers” and whatever the “believe” IS THE TRUTH. You would dare challenge the God-given gift? For shame.
August 30, 2012 at 11:04 am
ED Denson
Conventions are boring because they are just 3 or 4 day informercals now. It was more interesting when things were actually being decided. Re the GM plant I found two interesting things: 1- a Fox contributor saying Ryan lied. 2- a spin that the plant was scheduled to close under Bush and either a) didn’t actually close till after the election, or b) Obama promised to prevent the closing but didn’t.
August 30, 2012 at 11:19 am
Joe Blow
By the way, since when did this election become about a thinking reality of “facts, truth and reality”?
More so this time than before, this election is about the True Believers versus the treasonous ungodly heathens. The question remains, is the power of belief stronger than the power of thought?
PS. Forgot “problem WITH serious substantive…”
August 30, 2012 at 12:40 pm
tra
I’m guessing the Fox News contributor Ed is referring to is Sally Kohn, who wrote this piece:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/
She said the top three words to describe Ryan’s speech were “dazzling,” “deceiving,” and “distracting” and her piece does an admirable case of laying out the most egregious examples of deceit and distraction in his speech.
Of course most Republican True Believers will, no doubt, be successfully dazzled and distracted, and thus the deceits will penetrate, and help fire up the party’s hard-right, authoritarian base. And although Republican Senator Lindsay Graham admitted the other day that, despite their best efforts, the GOP is “not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term,” at the moment, they’re focused on the short-term.
But to the extent that party conventions are supposed to introduce the candidates to a wider audience — and most importantly, undecided voters — introducing your vice-presidential candidate by having him rattle off such a large number of completely blatant lies (including some that are both easy to disprove, and actually simple enough to explain in a sound-bite) seems like a potentially risky move. But whether that risk develops into any real consequence depends on whether or not those undecided voters are actually made aware of the blatant lying.
So this could be a real watershed moment for our country, and a critical test for the media, and for the public as a whole. If there is no real cost imposed on the Romney/Ryan ticket for this kind straight-out lying, then I’m afraid it’s all downhill from here — Idiocracy, here we come.
So far, there’s mixed evidence about whether there will be a significant price to pay for Romney/Ryan ticket. Quite a few outraged Op-Ed pieces iincluding James Downie’s piece at the Washington Post, where he sums up the Ryan speech in two words: “Breathtakingly dishonest.” But these are just blogs and Op-Eds, and most low-information, undecided voters are probably not turning to the If the major network anchors and reporters and on-air guests were being so plainspoken about Ryan’s pack of lies, this could have a real effect on undecided voters. But so far it looks like the media heavyweights with the largest audiences are sticking with weak-assed euphamisms like “some issues fact checkers will want to look at” and “factual short-cuts.” That kind of weak characterization could easily slip by low-information voters who don’t look any deeper.
I guess we’ll see what happens. It will all depend on whether this blatant lying is glossed over, giving the Romney/Ryan ticket a boost with their base at no real cost among undecided voters, or whether it becomes a significant story that costs them dearly in terms of credibility with the mainstream media and support among the undecided voters who look to those media sources as they begin to pay (at least a little bit) more attention to the race.
August 30, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Eric Kirk
It’s going to depend on Obama’s SuperPAC supporters. Repeating lies over and over again works. Repeating truth over and over again should be at least as effective.
Meanwhile, Chris Wallace has joined the chorus, which is very significant.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/paul-ryan-media-backlash-continues.php?ref=fpa
I think they overdid it. I love the quote, “We aren’t going to let our campaign be dictated by the factcheckers.” If there is any justice, that will be the campaign’s epitaph.
August 30, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Joe Blow
Hey Kirk, you don’t see the hypocrisy here do you? Or maybe you do and believe that if it works for the Republicans it will work for you too.
August 30, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Plain Jane
Conservative Kathleen Parker said that Romney / Ryan were risking being “seen as less than straight forward” and that Ryan made “several less than complete statements” in his speech.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kathleen-parker-romney-and-ryan-running-against-themselves/2012/08/30/62d852f8-f2e4-11e1-892d-bc92fee603a7_story.html
August 31, 2012 at 7:36 am
moviedad
The press has completely abdicated its responsibility to report on events in a truthful and “factual’ way. They are clearly playing politics. Whoever is left (or should I say: ‘remaining’”) in the media, who doesn’t bother to challenge blatant lies, will be promoted, while those who may still have some ethics will have to get out now.
Personally I feel they should arrest everyone at the convention for crimes against the American Workers.
What a joke to hear them talking about “American Jobs” while they are personally responsible for shipping our jobs to China.
I guess maybe its because I work for a living that I consider them all to be traitors. But that is how I feel. When some Kabillionaire, decides to shut down an American factory and move it to Indonesia so he can make a few more percentage points on the profit scale, while not giving a damn about the lives that are destroyed, or the infrastructure of the society that suffers, then in my book that person is an anit-American traitor.
“Good Germans” like to spout off about US unions causing the loss of jobs by forcing high wages, but the reality is that it’s the profit margins of the owners that counts with capitalists. Its the usual “blame-the-victim” strategy.
I don’t see it getting any better. The republicans are going to steal this election. They are criminals and they are going to use crime like they always do. They are going to need to do this even after they get their corrupted supreme court to legitimize the “Voter-Registration” laws. Which is also a crime against the constitution.
How much longer are working people going to take this before they take it to the streets?
I think one strategy that would have an impact is for everyone making under a million dollars a month to stop paying their bills. Absolutely stopped. Every single bill. Well, Except the local stores. But lets call it a “Worker’s Strike” If 30 million people did it at once, there might be a response.
August 31, 2012 at 9:09 am
Joe Blow
I’d say you’re just a bit late in the game there moviedad. Since Ronald Reagan it has been all about the looting. Obama was just a stall to keep the believing people placated while the looting continues. The dollar is nearly worthless as it is. Your idea about a “Worker’s Strike” is not as far off as one might think. When the truth finally sinks with a majority of people, that’s exactly what they will do -Stop Cooperating. When the police and the courts protect the criminals then the people will have to enforce the law. “Take it to the streets”? Notice at the RNC very few people demonstrated. They’re finally getting smart. No one hears what they say anyway, so maybe they’re going to talk in a language everyone understands. Good comment.
August 31, 2012 at 9:25 am
Joe Blow
By the way, to illustrate a comment I posted above, here is a belief, something NOT based in an experienced fact: “Repeating lies over and over again works. Repeating truth over and over again should be at least as effective.” These are the kinds of beliefs that enslave people into thinking the status quo works. What works is getting people to act one way while believing they are doing something completely the opposite, isn’t that right Eric?
August 31, 2012 at 11:50 am
Anonymous
Romney has already won. You all just don’t know it yet.
August 31, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Anonymous
People on this site are nudging up to the clinical definition of paranoid. Obviously they are delusional.
August 31, 2012 at 5:13 pm
moviedad
I would like to say that I am anything but “late to the game..” I was a volunteer for McGovern. I passed out flyers to get the voter age lowered to 18 yrs old. I protested Nixon. The joke in my family is: “There’s nothing ‘left’ of Richard.”
Now that I think about it, it was all for nothing…my life has been a series of meaningless efforts, I’ve accomplished nothing, I am nothing…here I am all progressive with nowhere to go…there really is nothing more to do but kill myself, I will commit suicide by watching American propaganda until my brain explodes. Goodbye cruel world.
August 31, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Dave Kirby
There is no reason to get your shorts in a bunch. Ryan got half as many viewers as Sarah Palin got 4 years ago. The winner for the time slot was “Here comes Honey Boo Boo”…. a spin off of “”Tots and Tiaras”.
September 5, 2012 at 9:52 am
eddenson
I thought the highlights from Day 1 of the Demo convention were a lot more interesting than those from the Republicans. Am I biased or are the democrats better public speakers? Also noted that to make a drawing of the crowd, for the Demos, unlike the Repubs, one would need to take out more than the “flesh” crayon. Talk about two different worlds.
September 5, 2012 at 11:20 am
Ernie's Place
one would need to take out more than the “flesh” crayon”
Great observation Ed. What do you think that means?
Unfortunately, I have found both the republican and the Democrat conventions to be boring. I just don’t have ANY faith that they will even try to fulfill their campaign promises. I’m afraid that I’ve been disappointed by rhetoric too many times. Show me the jobs!
September 5, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Eric Kirk
I’ve watched every Dem and Republican convention since 1984, and usually I find them boring. But the dynamics this year are a little more interesting, and there were some great speeches last night. Good to see Cory Booker finally getting national recognition!
I’m looking forward to Betty White’s rebuttal of Eastwood.
September 5, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Plain Jane
I thought Michelle Obama’s speech was brilliant and heartfelt. She wrote it herself.
September 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Mitch
Watching/listening to last night’s convention coverage, I couldn’t decide whether to be thrilled that the Democrats appear ready for a fight or depressed that pollsters claim half the country prefers Romney/Ryan.
Either way, it’s exciting to see that Democrats are finally unashamed of speaking up for the real American values: inclusion, diversity, cooperation, upward mobility, giving back.
Michelle Obama’s speech was remarkable, as were Castro’s, Ledbetter’s, and Strickland’s.
September 5, 2012 at 3:42 pm
tra
Stickland probably had the most memorable lines of the night: “If Mitt was Santa Claus, he’d fire the reindeer and outsource the elves,” and “Mitt Romney has so little economic patriotism that even his money needs a passport. It summers on the beaches of the Cayman Islands and winters on the slopes of the Swiss Alps.”
O’Malley also hit hard, with: “Instead of investing in America, they hide their money in Swiss bank accounts and ship our jobs to China,..Swiss bank accounts never built an American bridge. Swiss bank accounts don’t put cops on the beat or teachers in our classrooms.”
Castro very effectively called Romney out for being utterly out-of touch with everyday Americans when he reminded the audience that Romney’s advice to young people facing hard times was to just “borrow money from your parents” and start a business. Castro zinged Romney by sarcastically asking “Gee, why didn’t I think of that?”
And then Castro went on to deliver what I thought was perhaps the most profound truth spoken that night: “We know that in our free market economy some will prosper more than others. What we don’t accept is the idea that some folks won’t even get a chance…And the thing is, Mitt Romney and the Republican party are perfectly comfortable with that America.”
If you heard the speech live, the way he hit the phrase “perfectly comfortable,” was powerful — it cracked like a whip. The painful truth, laid bare for all to consider.
September 5, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Plain Jane
Castro was funny and sharp. He’s definitely a rising star. That he’s a cutie doesn’t hurt his odds either.
September 5, 2012 at 8:08 pm
tra
I missed Clinton’s speech tonight, but apparently it was a real tour de force. I look forward to seeing the highlights, at least.
Here’s what top Republican strategist and former Romney advisor had to say immediately after the speech:
“This will be the moment that probably re-elected Barack Obama.”
September 5, 2012 at 10:36 pm
Eric Kirk
It was something to watch. Whether it will sway the few voters who remain undecided, who can tell?
September 5, 2012 at 10:47 pm
tra
Probably some. At any rate, I’m sure it fired up the base, and together with the other hard-hitting speeches of this convention, it may help close the “enthusiasm gap.”
I don’t think Romney will (or even can ) win unless lots of people who lean towards Obama stay home on Election Day.
September 5, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Eric Kirk
Friday’s jobs report might put a damper on the whole thing, unless they’ve seized the narrative on Republican obstructionism as the primary cause of job loss.
September 5, 2012 at 11:12 pm
tra
Well, you’re right of course. But I think the aggressive tone we’re hearing from the Dems this week means that they’re planning to keep loudly reminding voters of the mess left by he Bush recession, and the obstructionism of the Republicans in Congress ever since. Yes, Obama could still falter due to poor economic news, some kind of gaffe or mishandled crisis, or perhaps just from an avalanche of late-breaking, highly-negative, turnout-depressing SuperPac spending, but it looks like one thing that won’t be an issue for the Obama campaign is messaging, and another thing that won’t be an issue is timidity. This ain’t 2010.
September 6, 2012 at 6:15 pm
Anonymous
Speaking of messaging Eric, what’s up with KUMD and the news? Terri Clemetson asked about an 80 plant bust in Shively that was 800 plants. Does she check her facts before a story and asking questions? Even 80 marijuana plants is too many. Why is she on the cops for doing their job?
September 7, 2012 at 5:30 am
bolithio
As subjective as it is, I thought Obama’s speech was much more motivating than Mitts. He laid out ‘the choice’ well.
September 7, 2012 at 6:29 am
Mitch
Obama’s speech last night was the best political speech of my lifetime, as far as I can recall. Yet at least one pundit I usually respect called it “pedestrian.”
I don’t get it.
Between Michelle Obama, Bill Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, and President Obama, I don’t understand how they can have failed to convince every listener except those few that have $100 million in their Swiss account.
No, the Democrats haven’t governed as well as they speechify. But they’ve made it clear where their hearts are, and they’re finally willing to call today’s Republicans on their bullshit and to remind us of the Obama administration’s accomplishments despite that GOP obstruction.
Accomplishments like cutting taxes for 95% of Americans, saving the American automobile industry, strengthening America’s support for vets, winding down the Bush wars, and standing up for the rights of women to control their bodies and to make equal pay for equal work.
September 7, 2012 at 7:31 am
Eric Kirk
Mitch – I agree. It started slow, and it never went overboard. It was unique in that it appealed to the sense of reason, rather than emotion. I don’t know if that’s a winning strategy with “gut voters” who are undecided, but we’ll see. The jobs report wasn’t good, but I think his speech was tailored to that possibility.
September 8, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Joe Blow
So, which one of you has the guts to answer this question? Is Romney ready and can he be trusted to decide which Americans should be extrajudically assassinated?
September 9, 2012 at 8:09 am
Plain Jane
No, Joe. He isn’t ready for anything but a luxury retirement with his hoards of money in the Cayman Islands.
September 9, 2012 at 8:16 am
Plain Jane
I found this very interesting this morning.
Romney was asked by Bret Baier if he regretted not mentioning the troops or the wars in his convention speech and he said, “No. When you– when you give a speech, you don’t go through a laundry list, you talk about the things you think are important.”
September 11, 2012 at 9:03 am
Joe Blow
So, I guess that means Obama is?
September 11, 2012 at 8:24 pm
Ernie's Place
“Obama’s speech last night was the best political speech of my lifetime,”
Mitch
It’s sad that you are too young to remember John Kennedy