Aside from a few letters of unnecessary tone from both sides, I’ve really appreciated the Second District Supervisor discussion this time around. We have some very articulate writers. Some long winded (including me – I didn’t realize quite how long winded until I saw how much space I took up in the paper, and believe it or not I condensed!). Some very thoughtful. Some not so thoughtful. Anyway, The Redwood Times has its letters up. I wrote a separate letter for each paper, and unfortunately the Independent isn’t yet online and I keep forgetting to thumb drive the first letter from my offline computer.
Marie Rafael’s letter on behalf of Clif
Dave and Cheryl Nicholson’s letter on behalf of Estelle
David Hawkins’ letter for Estelle
Dave and Susan Hagemen for Clif
Unfortunately, that’s as far as the links go. There were some great letters over the past month.
So what will happen on Tuesday? I’ll give you my predictions on Monday evening.
Addendum: The Arcata Eye was kind enough to compile its letters of support for candidates. None in the Second District. Lots of support for Mark.
Second addendum: More letters from this week’s paper.
157 comments
Comments feed for this article
May 30, 2012 at 9:08 am
Anonymous
A quote from your letter, eric, not taken out of context:
“We need leadership which recognizes the diversity of the community, and which does not default to “us and them,” and does not give credence to conspiracy theories about dark urban forces.”
Your blog is proof that you focus on us vs. them.
Your blog preaches us vs. them.
Your blog preaches us vs. them!
YOUR BLOG PREACHES US VS. THEM!!!!!
In fact, you preach polar politics and just about nothing else. You don’t stand in the middle, you choose one or the other. Dark urban forces? Projection and cynicism yourself, not acknowledgement of what’s really being communicated. Not questioning your own demographic. Nobody’s saying darth vader is sitting in a space station governing our planet’s collapse, more and more people ARE communicating their growing awareness of just how deep political corruption and manipulation runs. It’s not cynical, you are cynical in thinking people who want to revolutionize “government” are crazy conspirators themselves. You’re one of those “exact words” guys, it’s plain as day in everyting you write. You’re welcome for reading.
May 30, 2012 at 9:34 am
Eric Kirk
So who are the “us and them” my blog preaches?
Just curious.
May 30, 2012 at 9:37 am
Anonymous
democrat/republican left/right liberal/conservative science/religion pepsi/coke porsche/ferrari etc.
May 30, 2012 at 9:49 am
Eric Kirk
Well, I don’t think you’ve read my blog for very long, but have at it anyway.
May 30, 2012 at 9:54 am
Anonymous
If every single time I stick my head in the door, somebody’s watching wheel of fortune on TV, I’ma go ahead and say that person watches a lot of wheel of fortune on TV.
May 30, 2012 at 10:02 am
Eric Kirk
Especially if you’re looking for Vanna yourself.
May 30, 2012 at 10:43 am
j67k
He said it 3 times so it’s got to be true…
Otherwise, Alien Elvis would have climbed through the mirror to “probe” him. Not even Bob Dobbs could save him then.
BTW- Please call it a flash drive, or USB drive. (Just a pet peeve, like people calling it an ATM machine… An automatic teller machine Machine… Grrr!)
May 30, 2012 at 10:58 am
Anonymous
Looking for vanna myself, is that metaphorical? It’s your world, eric, we’re just living in it. I’ll be looking at vanna, btw, not for her. Even when she’s a hunched wrinkled little biddy using a walker to and from each letter on that magic puzzle board…
j67k, I don’t get your point, but there probably isn’t much of one.
May 30, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Not A Native
I don’t vote in the 2nd and all I know about Clif is his voting record and a few media quotes. He’s a pretty low key representative compared to Mark, the supe in my district.
But I have to say, I can’t identify Clif with a particular political agenda or ideology, like I did for Rodoni. So IMO Clif doesn’t ‘typecast’ well. I guess that’s a good thing for a representative of a relatively diverse district.
All I know about Estelle is her public statements and tenure on CPR. I never heard her radio show. I have a difficult time understanding her. I feel I’m hear code words and being asked to ‘read between the lines’. My sense is she does a lot of the “I’m not going to say what I really mean because being secretive and misleading is necessary for success when competing against strong opponents.” Its the old “if I told you the truth, I’d have to kill you”.
May 30, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Jim Ferguson
NAN:
Estelle, in every ad she’s run, in ever commercial she’s cut, in every forum she’s attended, is very clear on where she stands. There are NO code words or hidden agendas. There were even print ads titled – Where I Stand… to clearly spell out her positions on the issues facing the Second District.
To say otherwise is disengenious.
May 30, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Anonymous
Estelle changed boats mid stream on every single issue.
To say otherwise is disengenious
May 30, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Anonymous
So then Jim, where does Estelle stand on Richardson Grove?
May 30, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Anon
The Sierra Club endorsed Clif? Give me a break!
May 30, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Jim Ferguson
Listen to the CLMP debate, for one, where she clearly spelled out her position…. as did Clif.
Oh, but that would screw up your narrative that she doesn’t take a stand on the important issues.
May 30, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Not A Native
OK Jim, I’ll quote a few items from Estelle’s website:
“I believe in sensible land use policies that protect the environment and a rural landowner’s right to live, work, and enjoy their property.”
Well WTF does that mean? Does ANYONE believe in non-sensible policies? No one disagrees with a landowner’s right to live, work, and enjoy their property and environmental protection limiting those rights. This statement sidesteps the practical issue of where the policy balance should be set. So this statement is crafted to send some kind of message, without stating explicitly what that message is.
“I enjoy the rural life and never want to see Santa Rosa-style development here.”
“Santa Rosa-stye development” is not a policy or specification, its a code word.
Case closed !!
May 30, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually Jim, that’s not a good example. I heard her say that her position had “evolved” and that she had supported the proposal four years ago, but now she is sensitive to the environmental concerns but wants to address the concerns of business as well. I’m not sure what that means. Does she support widening or not?
Has it come up in subsequent debates?
It’s okay if she doesn’t have a clear position and wants more facts. But she didn’t exactly say that.
May 30, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Eric Kirk
NAN – in one of the debates, she referred to the Cutten proposed development as “Santa Rosa style development.” I think she’s referring to large tract housing with small parcels, outside of an in-fill area.
May 30, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Fred Mangels
Sorry, Eric. Not a good letter, and that’s from someone who isn’t taking sides in this race.
For crying out loud! It was 1079 words! You’re lucky any paper would print that as a letter to the editor. Most papers limit words to 300 words, or less.
Along that same line, the longer a letter is, the less likely people are to read the whole thing.
Very wordy, too. Lots of redundancy and using words that didn’t need to be used.
Lastly, If I was going to spend so much time dealing with the GPU, I would have just stuck to the GPU and not mentioned anything else.
Anyway, I gutted your letter and brought it down to just over 233 words. :
“Let’s re- elect Clif Clendenen as 2nd district supervisor.
Some of his strengths are what some perceive as weakness. He listens. He thinks long and hard on the issues. He makes a decision and votes accordingly. If subsequent information is compelling, he may change his mind. He is a natural listener and lets you know that he has heard you. He will do his best to set aside his personal agenda as he considers the issues.
He will be fully informed and engaged. He will balance everyone’s interests. I do not know how he will vote but, for better or worse, it will be a vote respectful of the the diversity of opinion in this district, which he understands like nobody else.
I may not agree with all of the conclusions he reaches, nor with everything he votes on. I can still be confident that he has incorporated my thoughts and concerns into his own as he represents the 2nd district.
I suggest that everyone who can find the time research the General Plan Update, the STIP money issue, the “bankrupt airline” issue, and all else for which he is being criticized, then talk to Clif. He will tell you what he is thinking, whether it will make you happy or not. It is a refreshing and a rare quality.
Please join me in proudly voting for Clif on June 5.
May 30, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Eric Kirk
Maybe I should have included some pictures.
May 30, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Fred Mangels
FWIW; by way of example, here’s a letter I recently had published in the The Trinity Journal in support of Firenza Pini. 115 words. Was kind of neat as I sent this to them 45 minutes before the close of business on the deadline date. It still got published, perhaps because I made it so short:
“I write in support of Trinity County’s very own Firenza Pini for 2nd District, state Assembly. Her priority is taking care of the budget deficit above all else. She’s fiscally responsible yet socially tolerant, something rarely found in today’s office holders. It’s usually one or the other, not both.
For those of you who want money out of politics, Firenza has run her campaign with no contributions to date. It can’t get any better than that, can it? If you really want campaign finance reform, how about setting an example and voting for the candidate with the least money.
Find out more at http://www.firenzapini2012.com. Please join me in voting for Firenza Pini on June 5.”
May 30, 2012 at 3:49 pm
Anonymous
I liked the letter. But then I like Russian novels too.
May 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Anonymous
>>Jim Ferguson
Listen to the CLMP debate, for one, where she clearly spelled out her position…<<
Do you mean the one when she yelled she would vote to stop the lawsuit?
Or the one she wasn't aware of the Eureka Waterfront Drive issue?
Or the one she said Clif voted to take money away from potholes?
Or the one she said she had broadened her perspective on the 101 widening but would not answer with a yes or no?
That debate?
She hasn't been right yet.
May 30, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Jim Ferguson
Eric:
I was standing there during the CLMP debate and she was very specific about where she stood, as was Clif.
How many times must Estelle say she’s spoken out against the Forster Gill project and any kind of Santa Rosa style development? Thanks for your comment Eric, but reality rarely intrudes when someone, like NAN, is out to misstate a candidate’s position or to say they don’t have a position at all.
May 30, 2012 at 7:10 pm
Anonymous
Actually Jim, that’s not a good example. I heard her say that her position had “evolved” and that she had supported the proposal four years ago, but now she is sensitive to the environmental concerns but wants to address the concerns of business as well. I’m not sure what that means. Does she support widening or not?
Jim,
You still haven’t answered the question, nor has Estelle.
May 30, 2012 at 7:17 pm
Eric Kirk
I actually lean towards supporting the Forster Gill project precisely because they are attempting to employ smart growth concepts, though I have some problems with the amount of proposed commercial space, which seems excessive.
May 30, 2012 at 7:37 pm
tra
“…they are attempting to employ smart growth concepts.”
Well, they’re using all the right buzzwords… but beyond that, as far as I can tell, it would still basically be an enormous suburban subdivision of more than 1,400 units and over 200,000 square feet of commercial space (nearly 3 times the size of the Walmart that’s coming to the Bayshore Mall). It would be built on timberland, many miles from downtown, and will have massive traffic and infrastructure impacts. Yeah, they’re going to leave some “open space,” but a lot of that is just the steep slopes that they wouldn’t be able to build on anyway. But Mark Lovelace embraced it, and the out-of-area developer gave thousands to Bonnie Neeley , so obviously it must be eco-groovy.
May 30, 2012 at 7:47 pm
ICU812
Please Eric, by all means, give us your definition of ~smart growth~?
Is the Community Park ~smart growth~?
May 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm
WTF
OMG, did I read someone said Estelle was “sensitive to the environmental concerns”? Where?
Estelle is backed by “Cathy’s” Randall Sand & Gravel and Randall’s Bulk Soils Yard. Also Eureka Ready Mix and Eureka Sand & Gravel! Both of whom are in the River Bed & Salmon Habitat Gravel Extraction Operation and Production busyness. Yes, Estelle is “sensitive to environmental concerns”.
Where does she stand on all Wild & Scenic Rivers in Humboldt County, the same Wild & Scenic Rivers Randall and Eureka Sand & Gravel take away endangered Coho, Chinook and Steelhead gravel for spawning habitat and redd’s?
Oh yeah, Estelle wants to “streamline” the permiting process for business, make the process less costly. Well the only permiting process that business doesn’t want is the environemtal permiting process. Is that what she means?
May 30, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Eric Kirk
ICU – the Community Park isn’t any kind of growth. It’s a park.
Smart growth involves high density housing, with amenities and work opportunities to minimize commuting outside of the area. It should be walkable. It should be close to an urban center. And this particular project would be filled with trails, and a big chunk of affordable housing. But as TRA points out, the commercial space, mostly dedicated to retail, is huge. And the impact on Walnut Ave. traffic? I don’t know. I don’t think they ever got to the traffic study.
It is amazing though that the primary opposition comes from people who would have no problem with the development if it wasn’t in their neighborhood. Kind of like Ferndale and the wind farm proposal.
May 30, 2012 at 8:45 pm
anon
jim, tra, charley, will SOMEONE with estelle (or estelle) please tell me what her position is yea or nay on richardson grove!
not mealy mouthed politic-speak, yea or nay…
thank you…
May 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm
WTF
anon, Estelle said at the Mateel debate, she was for the Caltrans Richardson Grove project. That is what came out of her mouth!
May 30, 2012 at 8:55 pm
Eric Kirk
WTF – I didn’t hear that, and I was listening pretty closely. I guess I’ll have to go to KMUD archives and listen again.
May 30, 2012 at 9:02 pm
ICU812
~ICU – the Community Park isn’t any kind of growth. It’s a park~
Well Eric, if its just a Park, why are you rezoning 3-5 acres of the Park for multi family housing dvelopment. How many Parks do you know that have housing development as a part of recreation? Its on the Park web site plain as day.
And you never answered my question, what is Eric Kirks definition of ~smart growth~?
May 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm
Eric Kirk
Smart growth is high density housing, with amenities and work opportunities within walking or short drive distance, with open spaces…. didn’t I just type this?
May 30, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Anonomous
I have good reasons to support Estelle
Redwood Times
Posted: 05/30/2012 01:30:13 PM PDT
To the Editor:
On June 5th, I am voting for Estelle Fennell for 2nd district supervisor. Normally, I am not a very political person (although I do often wonder about the wisdom behind a speed limit of 30 MPH on Redway Drive and 25 MPH on Briceland Road, but I digress…) however I have good reasons to support Estelle.
When the school district held a special meeting in January to discuss the total elimination of bus transportation from the budget, both Clif and Estelle were there. Estelle stood up and said we needed to take this fight all the way to Sacramento. Clif sat in the audience with members of Humboldt Transit Authority (HTA), the business that would possibly help with our transportation needs should the buses truly be cut.
While I appreciate Clif’s attempt to problem-solve, I have a real problem with the ease with which he accepted the loss of 14 jobs in Southern Humboldt. HTA could not have come anywhere close to serving the needs of our outlying families, let alone the families in town. This was a political fight for us, and Clif was not rising to that occasion.
Estelle was with SHUSD and the community the entire way, all the way to the steps of the capitol building in Sacramento. It was a fight we needed to wage, and thankfully we won (for now, I know). I believe Estelle will continue her earnest interest in the wellbeing of our community. We need someone who will lead, and lead the fight if necessary. Times will not be getting any easier, and Southern Humboldt needs a person who will vigilantly protect and support our community.
That person is Estelle Fennell.
Jennifer Kubik
Redway
May 30, 2012 at 9:33 pm
WTF
“WTF – I didn’t hear that, and I was listening pretty closely. I guess I’ll have to go to KMUD archives and listen again”
Why KMUD? Why not Access Humboldt. Go to 60:00 on the counter, its where the two questions come up about the Caltrans Richardson Grove project:
http://archive.org/details/AH-sups_candidate_debate_mateel_4-15-12
May 30, 2012 at 9:41 pm
ICU812
~…. didn’t I just type this?~
No Eric, you added to your post at 8:40 pm and re-posted it, hellooooo!
May 30, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Eric Kirk
ICU – I added to it about an hour ago.
WTF – You’re right, and I have to correct myself. She didn’t say her position had “evolved,” but that it had “broadened.” Now she supports the widening in “some form” which is environmentally sensitive. She didn’t before?
May 31, 2012 at 5:25 am
anon
okay, then both she and cliff support it–that’s a wash any way ya look at it…
May 31, 2012 at 7:56 am
gpf
I have had the privilege of walking some neighborhoods with Estelle over the past few weeks. She has a very natural connection with all sorts of people. Some speak very little English, and are visibly relaxed and friendly when Estelle speaks Spanish. In Rio Dell, there are old people who had smiles when speaking Italian with Estelle.
Estelle, who considers Southern Humboldt her home (she obviously has a strong feeling for place), has brought with her worldwide knowledge and experience in diverse areas and the ability to listen to, and represent many different kinds of people. I am constantly impressedwith her depth of knowledge and understanding of local history.
My only regret is that we have had to wait four years until she can go to work as supervisor for us, the second district, and for us, Humboldt County.
May 31, 2012 at 8:07 am
Anonymous
To the Editor:
When voting in local elections, where I may know the candidates
personally, I refer to my personal experience and observations in making decisions about whom to support. As it happens, I voted for Clif’s challenger in the last election, because she was from SoHum, had long been news director at KMUD and I knew who she was. Then, after her first bid, I believe that Estelle Fennell gave me insight into how her political ambitions seem to have impacted her decision-making.
Last year, while collecting over 10,500 petition signatures for our petition to railbank the North Coast Railroad Authority (NCRA) from Willits to Humboldt Bay, we also received various political endorsements for our vision in resolution form. One of those got overwhelming support from the Humboldt County Democratic Party Central Committee.
Although 16 members of Humboldt Democrats’ most senior policy organization supported railbanking to preserve the NCRA right of way along the main stem of the Eel River, Estelle Fennel joined three in the opposition. Railbanking would enable the NCRA corridor to be used temporarily as a non-motorized trail for equestrians, bicyclists, hikers and others as well as ensure eternal priority for its reuse as a railroad. Hundreds of examples of well-loved public trails exist due to railbanking.
Soon after the vote, Estelle called my cell to explain that she had only opposed the non-binding railbanking measure because she “wanted it to be unanimous.” Taking her at her word could mean that she would oppose anything that some people anywhere might oppose. Unfortunately, holding true to that policy would mean that she might not find much of anything to support as a supervisor. If that is how she would make decisions, her style of governance might make the U.S. Congress look efficient.
On the other hand, Clif was cautious at first about handling the topic of railbanking. However, Clif does have a history of supporting trails in Humboldt, for example, when he was vice-chair of HCAOG. It was Clif’s instrumental vote as a Humboldt supervisor, which put Bill Kier, a dedicated trail supporter and skilled administrator, on the NCRA board. In my opinion, that has resulted in an emerging recognition by the NCRA board that in the near and medium term, resumption of rail service in the Eel River canyon is implausible and thus, railbanking cannot be dismissed out of hand.
As chair of the NCRA, Clif “seeks solutions which keep future rail options open while allowing uses such as trails in the meantime.” His public opinion may have evolved during his first term, reminiscent of another skilled politician at the national stage on a different topic, however that allows us to understand possible directions for a second term.
A vote for Clif would be good not only for local trails, but also for environmentally sustainable economic development in public infrastructure, safety and defense of civil liberties (code enforcement). He has actively been available at public SoHum meetings on an unparalleled level. He deserves our vote of confidence.
Chris Weston
Eel River Trails Association
Phillipsville
May 31, 2012 at 8:10 am
Anonymous
Well e, you could ask The Indie to send you all their letters to the editor and post them here?
May 31, 2012 at 8:14 am
Anonymous
>>Jim Ferguson
Thanks for your comment Eric, but reality rarely intrudes when someone,<<
Jim must be drinking estelle kool-aid. He is in such denial and himself not reality based.
May 31, 2012 at 9:18 am
Jane
Personally there is nothing more frightening to me than the idea that Estelle will be elected to any public office. And I’ve direct experience with her. Keep her in the trenches where she has accountability and less power. Just say NO to Estelle.
May 31, 2012 at 9:20 am
Jane
Eric I’d like to thank you for your many hours spent sharing your personal experience, professional wisdom, and the kitchen sink with us. I appreciate my choice to come here and read your thoughts whether I agree with them or not.
May 31, 2012 at 11:30 am
Anonymous
Our favorite letters for Clif-
Linda Lowe
Jim Lamport
Marie Rafael
Barbara Kennedy
Cheryl Albritton
Nelly Galeana
Our favorite letters for Estelle-
Judi Gonzales
David Hawkins
May 31, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Anonymous
e, thank you for your many hours spent sharing your personal experience, professional wisdom, and the kitchen sink with us.
May 31, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Anonymous
Dennis Wendt is on estelle’s list of endorsers. Goes to show how environmentally conscience she is not.
EPA Dings Fortuna Construction Firm More Than $300,000 for Wetlands Dumping
Hank Sims / Today @ 1:41 p.m. / Environment
Fortuna mover-and-shaker Dennis Wendt, well known for his substantial campaign donations to local conservative-side candidates and causes (see also here), today settled a lawsuit brought against him by the Environmental Protection Agency. The suit charged him with illegally filling wetlands during the construction of Fortuna’s Strongs Creek Plaza mall.
Press release from the Environmental Protection Agency:
Calif., Construction Company to Pay $170,000 following Illegal Dumping to Federally Protected Wetlands during Strip Mall Construction
Company Will Spend an Additional $150,000 to Repair, Restore Nine Acres of Wetlands critical to California’s North Coast salmon populations
SAN FRANCISCO – Humboldt County contractor Dennis Wendt of Wendt Construction today resolves a federal lawsuit with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and U.S. Department of Justice following the construction company’s unpermitted dumping of the equivalent of 200 large dump truck loads of material into federally protected wetlands crucial to neighboring salmon populations.
The wetlands are associated with Strongs Creek, which flows approximately 1.3 miles west to the Eel River, a priority resource for maintaining cold, freshwater habitat for salmon and steelhead. The Lower Eel River is considered impaired under the Clean Water Act due to excessive sediment loads, low dissolved oxygen and high temperatures that exceed water quality standards.
strongs
“Salmon and steelhead populations have been hit hard on the North Coast due to the unfortunate destruction of their aquatic habitat,” said Jared Blumenfeld, EPA’s Regional Administrator for the Pacific Southwest. “This action ensures the restoration of wetland habitat along Strongs Creek, and will advance the recovery of these valuable fish species.”
The illegal fill activities took place between 2005 and 2008 at two adjacent development sites, the Strongs Creek Plaza Site and the East Littlefield Property and impacted a total of 4.18 acres of wetlands. Wendt Construction will pay a $170,000 penalty for dumping fill material into wetlands connected to Strongs Creek, a tributary to the Eel River located in the City of Fortuna.
As part of the settlement, the company will undertake a multi-year project to restore the damaged wetlands, including the creation of vegetated pond that will support wildlife while filtering water and recharging the groundwater aquifer. Restoration will allow the creek to perform the important ecological functions of retaining soil and nutrients, attenuating floodwaters, and providing movement corridors for wildlife and habitat for the Northern red-legged frog, which is a threatened species in California.
The federal Clean Water Act protects the nation’s coasts, rivers, lakes, streams, and wetlands, which are vital to the protection of human health and the environment. Section 404 of the CWA requires anyone who proposes to fill and alter protected waterways, including wetlands, to first obtain permit authorization from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
The proposed consent decree for the settlement, lodged with the federal district court on May 30, 2012, is subject to a 30-day comment period and final court approval. A copy of the proposed decree is available on the Justice Department website at: http://www.justice.gov/enrd/Consent_Decrees.html
For more information about the Clean Water Act Section 404 regulatory program, visit: http://www.epa.gov/owow/wetlands/pdf/reg_authority_pr.pdf
May 31, 2012 at 4:50 pm
gpf
I posted the following comment at about 9am this morning (Thursday), and it occurred to me that maybe its non-appearance is because my browser is screwy? Anyway, I’m re-posting from a different computer and browser.
I have had the privilege of walking some neighborhoods with Estelle over the past few weeks. She has a very natural connection with all sorts of people. Some speak very little English, and are visibly relaxed and friendly when Estelle speaks Spanish. In Rio Dell, there are old people who had smiles when conversing in Italian with Estelle .
Estelle, who considers Southern Humboldt her home (she obviously has a strong feeling for place), has brought with her worldwide knowledge and experience in diverse areas and the ability to listen to, and represent many different kinds of people. I am constantly impressed with her depth of knowledge and understanding of local history.
My only regret is that we have had to wait four years until she can go to work as supervisor for us, the second district, and for us, Humboldt County.
May 31, 2012 at 5:28 pm
AnonnyMoose
Agree with Jane. Ego + Power = Trouble
May 31, 2012 at 5:33 pm
EstelleSucks
Egotistical
Sellout
Tells
Everybody
Lies
Loses
Election
May 31, 2012 at 8:54 pm
tra
“Smart growth is high density housing, with amenities and work opportunities within walking or short drive distance, with open spaces…”
Foster-Gill’s project in Ridgewood would be (relatively) high density, and there would be some work opportunities within walking distance, but even with 200,000 square feet of retail, that could only provide jobs for a tiny fraction of the thousands of people that will live in the 1,400 residential units. And retail jobs are generally low-paying, so very few of the adult residents will be able to make a living working there. So most of the workers in those retail outlets will probably be commuting there from elsewhere, many of them by automobile. Meanwhile, the vast majority of residents will be commuting elsewhere to work — again, many of them by automobile. And probably a significant portion of those shopping at all that retail space and going to those offices will not be residents of the Foster-Gill development either, and again, most of those people will be driving there. There are only a couple of (already overcrowded) roads in and out of that area. Anyone who thinks life at this massive suburban subdivision will be some kind of model of sustainable, environmentally-sound living is just plain deluded.
Sprawl + buzzwords + suckers = SmartSprawl.(TM)
May 31, 2012 at 9:02 pm
tra
“Personally there is nothing more frightening to me than the idea that Estelle will be elected to any public office. ”
Really? More than murder, rape, child abuse, war, torture, pandemics, natural disasters, economic collapse…?
Get a grip, Jane.
May 31, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Eric Kirk
There’s a little bit of a controversy at KMUD. I’m hearing second hand accounts, but I’m going to hold back what I heard until I know what happened.
After hearing the accounts I got home and went to the KMUD archives, but for some reason the news for tonight is absent. I wasn’t planning to post anything until I had the whole story, but the absence of the news on the archives is just weird.
http://archive.kmud.org/
Can anybody tell me what happened? Will it be rebroadcast?
May 31, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Anonymous
The Sierra Club endorsed Clif!
http://www.redwoodtimes.com/garbervillenews/ci_20742764/sierra-club-endorses-clif-clendenen
May 31, 2012 at 10:25 pm
ICU812
Yeah and what does that mean ~The Sierra Club endorsed Clif!~
The Sierra Club also endorses Smart Growth, does that make it smart?.
http://www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/overview/
May 31, 2012 at 10:31 pm
ICU812
PS, it was the North Group, Redwood Chapter of the Sierra Club that endorsed Clif, not the State or National offices.
June 1, 2012 at 7:10 am
gpf
Jane, Anonnymoose, EstelleSucks….
You are perfect examples of Clif campaign strategy and the level of his thinking.
Eric, this negativity is not coming from both sides (examples please if they are). You will claim that Clif has nothing to do with this…he is out of the loop. Clif is always out of the loop.
June 1, 2012 at 8:05 am
Anonymous
There’s a little bit of a controversy at KMUD?
June 1, 2012 at 8:38 am
anonomous
As a rural resident of nearby cutten i can tell you that clendenen is completely out of touch with people and the environment and is blinded by his political phylosophy of so called smart growth. he supports the out of proportion forester-gill development which calls for 1,400 homes cut into our rural landscape,cliff calls this development “smart growth” development. Eureka city council and the people it will affect are completely against this development that’s in the works. clif hasn’t returned my or my neighbors numerous calls and i know why, because he thinks it’s a good idea and that’s all that matters.
i really hope estelle fennell wins the election, i wish i could vote for her. she has been the only one to speak out against this rediculous forester-gill monster development.
June 1, 2012 at 9:33 am
Eric Kirk
WTF – to answer your question, I changed the post because it’s several days before the election, and I would feel more comfortable with some confirmation.
The news was aired this morning, though I only heard the last 10 minutes of it. Last night’s news is still not on the archives. I find that very strange.
gpf – my understanding is that there is plenty of negativity coming from Estelle’s television commercials. I haven’t seen them, but they are making waves in Fortuna.
And it’s kind of odd when you claim that the negativity is moving from only one direction right after typing the sentence: “You are perfect examples of Clif campaign strategy and the level of his thinking.”
June 1, 2012 at 9:37 am
anon
can someone please (preferably unbiased) describe estelle’s TV ads?
just curious…
June 1, 2012 at 9:47 am
Jane
Anon in Cutten: That’s kind of how I feel about Cutten every time I drive through it.
June 1, 2012 at 9:50 am
Jane
gpf: That wasn’t negativity. That is and was my opinion based on my experience with Estelle. You post yours and I post mine. That is the way it goes. If Estelle would like me to go into details I’d be more than happy to. Somehow I don’t think I’ll be asked to do that. But I’d be more than delighted to share and have always said I would every time I made the “Just say No to Estelle” postings.
June 1, 2012 at 9:51 am
ICU812
anon, Estelle has two TV ads on her election web site, I don’t know if they are the ones Eric is talking about.
June 1, 2012 at 9:54 am
Eric Kirk
I found this one at her website. There was another one, but it’s not negative as far as I can tell. This one is negative, and very misleading, from my point of view.
June 1, 2012 at 9:55 am
Jane
tra. Your comparison isn’t logical and it spins my comments out of context. But thank you for trying. I am not a fan of corruption, never have been, never will be. Nor am I a fan of murder and the other things you list. I can do something about corruption and who sits in public office. That is a precursor to controlling the other things you list. Think of it maybe as a contraceptive for society ills in general electing the right people.
June 1, 2012 at 10:14 am
Anonymous
That commercial is bottom of the barrel sleazy. She should answer directly to it. She shows potholes then mentions the corridore “project”, which doesn’t represent “crumbling infrastructure” at all. Additionally, the very road she uses to demonstrate potholes is and will likely never be the subject of such moneys. What a liar.
June 1, 2012 at 10:27 am
Eric Kirk
WTF – As I said, my information is second hand. When I have some more direct confirmation, we can discuss it publicly. But with an election three days away and bound to be close, this blog is not going to be a vehicle for rumors. My sources are good, so I posted the info, then thought about it.
Of course, you can investigate the matter WTF. You’ve got much more free time than I.
10:14 – the problem is the implication, which Estelle and her supporters have been pushing, is that we had money to fill potholes on Redwood Drive which Clif voted to dedicate to the corridor improvement. As Kym and Cynthia reported excellently, it’s simply not the case, and is a gross oversimplification. It’s my biggest criticism of Estelle’s campaign.
I haven’t seen the other ads as I don’t watch TV. Clif has one television ad, which is about his accomplishments. He doesn’t have the money for a television blitz, and I’m not sure it’s effective in the Second District. I said that on my radio show, and that drew some contrary opinions from her campaign. I guess we’ll know which campaign was more effective on Tuesday. I think it’s going to be close.
June 1, 2012 at 10:56 am
Anonymous
Jane, please go into details, the ones you say you will when asked about your just say no to estelle.
What is the controversy? Some of us are completely in the dark.
June 1, 2012 at 11:22 am
ICU812
The road behind Estelle, is that a county road or a private drive way?
Has the Garberville/Redway Chamber endorsed Clif or Estelle? What about Garberville Rotary, Garberville or Redway Fire District, Garberville or Redway Community Services District? What about the Humboldt Growers Association etc……… Whom in Southern Humboldt endorses either Clif or Estelle, from a public benefit entity view point?
June 1, 2012 at 11:42 am
Anonymous
Jane – Put up or shut up.
gpf – Estelle doesn’t speak Spanish.
June 1, 2012 at 11:52 am
Eric Kirk
Okay, so basically there were going to be interviews with Clif and Estelle. I don’t know if they were supposed to be aired last night. There were no interviews on the broadcast which did not make it onto the archives last night, but the rebroadcast made it this morning.
I’ve heard two accounts of what happened to Estelle’s planned interview, each slightly different and both second hand, so I’m not going to repeat the accounts. What direct information I have is that there was a disagreement between Estelle and Terry as to the conduct of the interview (at this point I take no position on which side was right) and Estelle declined to be interviewed. Terry contacted Clif’s campaign and suggested “bagging it.” But Clif said that he would like to go forward with the interview as planned, and he was interviewed. So far it has not been aired.
That’s what I know. If you want to know more, you’ll have to contact the parties involved.
June 1, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Anonymous
Terri should air the interview with Clif.
June 1, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Ernie's Place
Eric said: “the problem is the implication, which Estelle and her supporters have been pushing, is that we had money to fill potholes on Redwood Drive which Clif voted to dedicate to the corridor improvement. As Kym and Cynthia reported excellently, it’s simply not the case, and is a gross oversimplification. It’s my biggest criticism of Estelle’s campaign.”
You are exactly right about the “oversimplification”. In reality it is not something that can be detailed in a sound-bite. Without the simplification, what actually happened was Clif chose a project that gave most of the STIP money back to the state highway. That being a project between Eureka and Arcata. His reasoning was that we stood a better chance of a project approved that gave back most of the money.
What he failed to anticipate was that the Coastal Commission would jump in the middle and stop it. The coastal commission is much needed here on our precious coast, but it is a GIVEN that they would not approve of any project without a thorough oversight investigation. Ultimately NO project in Humboldt county was approved and the good people of southern California are enjoying our lost funds.
What Clif should have done is to choose a project outside of the coastal zone and then go to Sacramento and insist that they approve it. Much like Estelle did when they cut out our school bus funding. She helped organize a trip to Sacramento to talk to Chesbro and Evans. They both said without our big showing of support for bus funding we would have never been able to get it. They Thanked US for helping them represent their district to the rest of the California Government in Sacramento, and helped them make their job much easier. We are talking millions of dollars of LOST stip funding, that is worth a trip to Sacramento!
I know that you have tried to be fair Eric, that is a quality that I much admire in you, but the STIP funding has become a major issue in this campaign. You are right in that Kym Kemp and Cynthia Elkins came to that same conclusion that Clif did. Both are also people that I much admire, but sadly they used the same people that advised Clif for their sources. That is one of Estelle’s major complaints about Clif is that he takes the advice of his advisors rather than come to his own decisions.
If you are still reading, this is a very detailed subject and I sincerely believe that we would have ended up with STIP funds for Humboldt county under Estelle’s supervision. Clif only played the cards that were put on his table and he took the advice of people that are more entrenched in Northern Humboldt rather than those of us that live south of Eureka. The road in that video above is East Blue Rock Road that goes to the Benbow Subdivision and the ridge South / East of Benbow. The most travel side road in Benbow. As of this morning that chuck hole is still there, even though they have repaired most. The worse holes are around the corner.
Also, I might add that I wrote Kym a private email that I thought she got sucked in by the same people that gave Clif bad advice. I guess that I just have more faith that Estelle will get the job at hand done well. As it is we have NO STIP, and we should have gotten that funding. Who should I blame???
Another thing they are not “Widening Richardson Grove” they are realigning. They are taking two 8” redwoods out of the park itself. They are replacing culverts to keep the redwood roots drained. (very important for the health of the redwoods.
I have heard Estelle say many times that we need a legal path for trucks into Humboldt County, and that the Richardson Grove re-alignment is the best option. I have also heard her stipulate that she will expect a full and accurate EIR before proceeding with the project. I love redwood trees and I also know that any bypass option would kill thousands of them. I trust Estelle to make sure the project is done right, or both of us might be out there doing a tree sit.
I apologize to my friends that don’t see things the way that I do, but I think that we can do better.
Still reading???
June 1, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Anonymous
>>>I have heard Estelle say many times that we need a legal path for trucks into Humboldt County, and that the Richardson Grove re-alignment is the best option. I have also heard her stipulate that she will expect a full and accurate EIR before proceeding with the project. I love redwood trees and I also know that any bypass option would kill thousands of them. I trust Estelle to make sure the project is done right, or both of us might be out there doing a tree sit.<<<
Clif has said the same thing ernie.
June 1, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Jane
“That is one of Estelle’s major complaints about Clif is that he takes the advice of his advisors rather than come to his own decisions.” res ipsa loquitur… I rest my case.
June 1, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Jane
Anonymous. Shut up? I’ll avoid the obvious which your posting name invokes as a hypocrisy. I’ve said my personal opinion about a public figure. That’s all I intend to do here. I’ve made it clear. Insult and bully someone else. If you are paid to post for the campaign I suggest a better choice of name.
June 1, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Ernie's Place
Then you agree that Clif made the right decision to follow advice that Estelle clearly objected to, to choose a plan that didn’t get appproval and then not follow through? Ipsa?
June 1, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Ernie's Place
Or were you agreeing with me.. In which case I agree with you. (Ipso Facto)
June 1, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Anonymous
Ernie, the highway through Richardson Grove will, in all fact, not a matter of fine print or nit picking details, be much wider in some areas and even include new turnouts and a retaining wall. None of which exists now. The overall surface area covered (not even mentioning impacted) by new construction will be greater (including width) than the existing road.
Being as how you’re on such a high horse about who says what, you might want to square your own arguments. Not that I care, you only make your bias more obvious saying such things.
June 1, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Anonymous
Jane said:
“But I’d be more than delighted to share and have always said I would every time I made the “Just say No to Estelle” postings.”
June 1, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Anonymous
No ernie, estelle is parroting Clif again.
June 1, 2012 at 2:36 pm
Eric Kirk
Without the simplification, what actually happened was Clif chose a project that gave most of the STIP money back to the state highway.
Again Ernie, they didn’t “give it back.” It was never in their hands to begin with. That’s the misrepresentation. What Clif did was to vote for the proposal most likely to bring any STIP money whatsoever into the county.
June 1, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Eric Kirk
Okay, now I’ve been contacted by a third person who says that it wasn’t a matter of disagreement between Estelle and Terry, just logistics. I’m assuming the interviews will be aired tonight.
June 1, 2012 at 3:12 pm
ICU812
Ernie’s Place said~She helped organize a trip to Sacramento to talk to Chesbro and Evans. They both said without our big showing of support for bus funding we would have never been able to get it~
With that being said, would Estelle have organize this (as you said) if she was not running for Supervisor? We will never know. And I don’t think the folks from SoHum were the only school district that went to Sacramento that day.
You also said~I have heard Estelle say many times that we need a legal path for trucks into Humboldt County, and that the Richardson Grove re-alignment is the best option~
No, the best option is to leave it alone. Trucks always had a legal path to get into Humboldt County.
June 1, 2012 at 3:33 pm
erniebranscomb
“Didn’t have it in the first place”
And didn’t get anything as I stated above. I think that it is a matter of faith. I trust that Estelle could have gotten some STIP money. We will never know.
Anon, get a name! Which one are you? The retaining wall at Singing Trees is on private property and the man that owns it on the west side is all for the project. Also the major trees being removed are relatively small and they are also outside the park.
Are we “square” yet?
June 1, 2012 at 3:42 pm
erniebranscomb
ICU812
I love your name, thank-you for using one.
Would she have organized it if she wasn’t running for supervisor/”
I have every faith that she would have. She did organize an effort to keep people informed and safe during some pretty major wild fires that we have had around here, and she wasn’t running for supervisor then.
That left me fairly impressed, she worked harder than most of the firefighters. She really does care about our community, that’s one of the things that I like most about Estelle.
Why would you question her motives, of course she want’s to be elected. Do you question Clifs motives?
June 1, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Eric Kirk
Then you agree that Clif made the right decision to follow advice that Estelle clearly objected to, to choose a plan that didn’t get appproval and then not follow through? Ipsa?
I don’t think we were ever likely to get the STIP funds, based upon what Kym and Cindy reported. I believe he made the choice that gave, and continues to give, the best chance at receiving them. Based upon what Kym and Cindy reported. I have no expertise of my own on the subject, but it’s hard to come up with better expertise sources than theirs.
But it’s really besides the point which is the misleading message of the advertisement – Clif sacrificed the repair of potholes in rural areas to benefit the safety corridor. That’s simply not true.
June 1, 2012 at 4:01 pm
erniebranscomb
Eric
My point is very simple, I believe that Estelle would have chosen a different project and fought it through to get some STIP money.
To bad that we aren’t running for supervisor Eric, we make some pretty good arguments!
June 1, 2012 at 4:08 pm
Eric Kirk
Terri emailed me to say that the interview of Estelle is underway, and that the whole thing was blown out of proportion by someone gossiping. The alleged gossiper has since denied gossiping. I’m not going to name the alleged gossiper. I didn’t hear it from the alleged gossiper, but it’s possible I heard if from a person who heard it from the alleged gossiper – if indeed the alleged gossiper truly gossiped. And perhaps there was another gossiper. Or just “a” gossiper if the alleged gossiper didn’t gossip.
No explanation as to why the news was missing from the archives last night.
I expect that both interviews will be aired tonight.
June 1, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Eric Kirk
Ernie – it may well be that she would have taken a different direction, and maybe it would have worked. Or maybe the proposal would have been rejected by postcard as those Kym interviewed suggest. I don’t really know, and I don’t think anyone knows for sure. You elect people to make calls, and I believe that Clif’s was well-reasoned.
No way would I ever run for office. I much prefer my ivory tower, where I can Monday morning quarterback. Hell, the only reason I vote is because my high school teacher told me that if I don’t vote I forfeit my whining privileges. And I treasure my whining privileges!
June 1, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Dave Kirby
If Estelle wins it will be a remarkable achievement. If you look at the numbers from the 2008 election when Estelle garnered less than a third of the votes cast and finished behind both Clif and the write in candidacy of Johanna Rodoni it sets up this time that she will have to win something like two of every three Rodoni votes to win. The Rodoni name was big in Scotia as Roger had deep ties to Palco so its hard to know who will really benefit from its leaving the district. And while the Rodonis were backers of CPR will that link be enough to offset the regional connections Clif has? Stay tuned.
June 1, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Eric Kirk
Dave – that also assumes that we’re talking about substantially the same voters. I think where Estelle has a fighting chance is that her supporters are motivated. There are some very motivated Clif supporters in Fortuna, but they aren’t motivated by a particular cause like the GPU. There may be people voting in Sohum who didn’t vote four years ago. Sohum is notoriously low in turnout perpetually, and if they turn out low on Tuesday, you know that Estelle won’t be winning.
Rio Dell is the big mystery. They are probably the most conservative of the voters, and not so much within the Clif community of social influence. Fortuna loves him, despite his left-of-center politics. That’s why he was the perfect candidate to run against Roger four years ago. But Estelle is the perfect candidate to beat Clif, because they needed somone who could beat him in the south. None of the right wingers from Fortuna would stand a chance against him in Sohum. But they’ll clobber her in four years if she wins and doesn’t tow the line to their satisfaction. Wasn’t there a letter to the editor which explored this?
June 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm
Anonymous
>>And while the Rodonis were backers of CPR…<<
Those words should scare everyone away from Estelle.
June 1, 2012 at 6:26 pm
anon
its interesting the estelle phenomenon: many people here in sohum, her neighbors, want one of “ours” in there and hang the price, as in her big money support from up north…
of course obama will get lots of money from parties that the average sohum denizen would abhor, yet we’ll vote for him…
and look at mugabe in zimbabwe; apparently (according to colbert) the U.N. just gave him some tourism award–so you see, no one’s perfect and politics can be a dirty and mysterious game, often hinging on some timely incident that catches the pubic imagination, ie the idiotic undecided voters we hear about…
anyhoo, when i saw the Bohn bumpersnicker next to the estelle one on the nice truck driven by some old folks in fortuna i thought wow, she does have a chance…
prediction: cliff 54, estelle 46…
June 1, 2012 at 6:31 pm
tra
“What Clif did was to vote for the proposal most likely to bring any STIP money whatsoever into the county.”
Well he may have believed that it was the “most likely” to garner the STIP money, and that may have been the advice he got from those he chose to take his advice from — but given the outcome, it looks like he and his advisors may have been wrong, because in the end we got zero, zip, nada. A different proposal certainly couldn’t have done any worse, and maybe it would have done better. There’s no way to know for sure whether another proposal might have succeeded, because it wasn’t tried, but we certainly know that the proposal Clif supported completely and totally failed to provide even one cent for either local roads or state roads.
June 1, 2012 at 6:58 pm
tra
” Estelle is the perfect candidate to beat Clif, because they needed somone who could beat him in the south. None of the right wingers from Fortuna would stand a chance against him in Sohum.”
With all due respect, that’s pretty funny coming from the guy who repeatedly insisted last year that Estelle wouldn’t have a prayer of a chance, that the only candidate who could beat Clif would have to be a conservative from Fortuna, and that if Estelle was the candidate Clif would win easily.
So, given the dilapidated state of your crystal ball, forgive me for laughing out loud at your current prediction, that “they’ll clobber her in 4 years if she doesn’t tow the line.” Basically you seem to be suggesting that people shouldn’t vote for the person they think is the best candidate, because four years later, she’ll be guaranteed to lose to a worse candidate (as if her performance in office would have no bearing on whether she would win re-election). That has got to be one of the weakest, most desperate-sounding arguments against a candidate that I’ve heard in a long time. And also one that seems to be based on a deeply flawed assumption.
You seem to be assuming that virtually no current Clif voters would support her four years from now, no matter how well she represents the district, and that therefore any loss of Fortuna conservatives would be fatal to her campaign. That’s pure nonsense. In fact, if she “doesn’t tow the line” of any particular group, but instead seeks to find common ground and reasonable compromise (as I fully expect she would) she could very well end up winning re-election with broad support from the middle and from the more reasonable, more willing-to-work-together folks who are not quite in the middle, but also not extremely inflexible or extreme in their views.
For example, if she helps broker some compromises on the General Plan, she might lose some of the most hard-core property rights fanatics, who may feel betrayed by any compromise, and of course she’ll never win over the hard-core Plan A zealots, since by now they’re quite deeply invested in demonizing and hating her — but the vast majority of the voters don’t fall into either category. The bottom line is that if she does a good job of representing the district, she will have a chance of being re-elected even if she loses the support of some Fortuna businesspeople or some other faction, for the simple reason that she may gain more votes than she loses. Insisting otherwise makes no sense, and believing that your prediction of her defeat four years from now is a certainty — well that’s just ridiculous.
June 1, 2012 at 7:20 pm
tra
Gee I’m just so surprised that Eric’s “two good sources” — the ones who had claimed that Estelle had refused to be interviewed on KMUD because supposedly she didn’t want to answer certain questions — turned out to be totally wrong, and the whole thing was completely without foundation, just a bit of fabricated drama spread by gossipers.
Seems to me like a few of Clif’s supporters are getting pretty desperate in the home stretch.
By the way, has anyone else noticed that the Clendenen Cider Works signs on Hwy 101 has been replaced by a “Pick Clif” campaign sign, attached to the signs with the guy on the ladder picking the apple.
Pretty funny given how hysterical some folks got about Estelle’s “oversized” billboards and how holier-than-thou some Clif supporters got about how he was supposedly going to bend over backward to comply with Fortuna’s (unconstitutional) sign ordinance. Somehow I suspect that we won’t be hearing any complaints from the people who complained about Estelle’s signs — now that their own guy decided to take advantage of his family business to create an “oversized” sign of his own.
June 1, 2012 at 8:38 pm
Eric Kirk
Well tra, if you knew who they were, at least one of them, you would be singing a different song. Like I said, I’m willing to let it go at this, but I didn’t hear this from the alleged gossiper.
As for the sign, it wasn’t put up until 30 days before the election – per the unconstitutional ordinance. And once the signs started going up, Clif’s campaign couldn’t even keep up with the requests for lawn signs in Fortuna. They had to bring some back up from Sohum. That billboard may or may not have cost Estelle Fortuna votes, but it sure galvanized Clif’s supporters.
And no, I don’t think Estelle would get Clif’s votes in the north in four years. They aren’t voting for him because of his politics. They’re voting for him because he’s Clif, whom they know very well and hav known all his and their lives.
As for my argument, it’s resonated with a number of people in Sohum. I had people come up to me and whisper – literally whisper – that they liked my letter and are supporting Clif. But they are a little afraid to say so publicly. I think we can do better than this.
Anyway, this will be over on Tuesday. My prediction – Clif 54, Estelle 46.
June 1, 2012 at 9:25 pm
tra
Eric,
If your two “sources” heard the rumour from the “gossiper” and repeated it to you without getting confirmation, and then you repeated the rumour here, doesn’t that make you and your sources “gossipers” too? Seems to me that it does.
As for the sign, the issue I’m raising isn’t the timing, it’s the size. According to the city of Fortuna, there is a maximum size for campaign signs, and Clif’s sign on Hwy 101 with the guy climbing the ladder to pick apples, attached to his campaign sign, is certainly larger than that size limit would allow. Now I don’t really have a problem with that, because I believe that Fortuna’s sign ordinance is both unconstitutional and asinine, but I do find it pretty funny, given how some of Clif’s supporters got their panties in such a bundle over Estelle’s “oversized” signs.
June 1, 2012 at 9:31 pm
tra
“And no, I don’t think Estelle would get Clif’s votes in the north in four years. They aren’t voting for him because of his politics. They’re voting for him because he’s Clif, whom they know very well and hav known all his and their lives.”
Well apparently I have a much higher opinion of the average Clif voter than you do. I believe most of them are rational, intelligent people who will be open to voting for Estelle if she does a good job.
Sounds like you’re counting on the “hometown boy” factor, rather than Clif having made the case that he’s the better candidate based on his performance in office, and based on a comparison with the opposing candidate. Given those factors, you’re probably right, winning on the basis that he’s Fortuna’s “hometown boy” is his best chance. But that’s kind of a sad commentary on his tenure in office.
June 1, 2012 at 9:43 pm
tra
“My prediction – Clif 54, Estelle 46.”
That wouldn’t surprise me. Incumbency, “hometown boy” in the district’s largest population center, etc.
But it also wouldn’t surprise me if was exactly the opposite — Estelle 54, Clif 46.
The only thing that would surprise me is if the margin of victory is a lot bigger than that, either way. I think it’s going to be fairly close.
And this might be a good time to repeat a comment that I wrote last year, shortly before Estelle announced her candidacy:
.
September 10, 2011 at 9:28 am
tra said: “…given that (in my opinion, at least) both Clif and Estelle care deeply about the well-being of Humboldt County, neither are corrupt, both are competent, and both have a reputation for being level-headed and able to work well with others, well it seems to me that an Estelle vs. Clif race would be a pretty good situation for 2nd District voters. The only question would be whether the winner is the good, competent, non-corrupt candidate, or the even better competent, non-corrupt candidate.”
http://kunsoo1024.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/estelle-leaves-humcpr/
June 1, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Eric Kirk
tra – quite frankly, I see Estelle winning down here on the hometown girl factor. People telling me they like Clif, but ….”it’s Estelle.” That Clif’s politics are actually closer to their’s than Estelle’s doesn’t matter. It’s part of the nature of elections. Many people in Sohum will vote for her because they trust her. Many people in Fortuna will vote for him because they trust him. But it’s not just because he’s the “hometown boy.” It’s because they know him and like him for what he’s done for the community, in office and out.
And really tra, if you want to have a discussion about what happened with KMUD, I’ll be happy to discuss it off forum. You’re acting kind of like a bull in a china shop here. That’s all I’m going to say about it.
Lastly, I don’t remember the size of the sign being an issue with the city of Fortuna. Some residents might be put off by the size, but it was the timing which raised the legal issue. Either way, that’s between Estelle and the voters of Fortuna.
June 1, 2012 at 10:10 pm
tra
“Lastly, I don’t remember the size of the sign being an issue with the city of Fortuna.”
If you check the ordinance, I think you’ll find that there is, indeed, a size limit, and yes, it was one of the complaints.
Again, I don’t have a problem with Clif’s sign, it’s the hypocrisy of those who got all hot and bothered about the importance of following the ordinance precisely — and didn’t think it mattered whether it’s a constitutionally-valid ordinance or not, or even whether the City was interpreting it correctly or not — when they wanted to use it to attack Estelle… but for some reason haven’t made a peep about Clif’s oversized sign. When it comes to that kind of selective outrage, it’s always amusing to note what happens when the shoe’s on the other foot.
June 1, 2012 at 10:22 pm
Eric Kirk
I thought the size and number limitation applied to the residential areas, but I confess I’ve forgotten how the ordinance is worded already. Age I guess.
June 1, 2012 at 10:46 pm
Eric Kirk
TRA – I’ve removed your last post. If you want to know why, call me. You’re not doing anyone any favors by keeping the discussion going. Nobody else is making a big deal about this. We’re just several days from the election. I’ll be happy to discuss with you what happened, and how, and the coincidences which led me to post what I did, but I don’t want to fuel conspiracy theories. It’s not what you think. Let it go until Wednesday.
You know, unfortunately you post something for five minutes on the blog, and then think better of it, and the cat’s out of the bag. I’ve been trying to settle this thing down all day, but you and others, with the best of intentions, just keep it going.
June 1, 2012 at 11:41 pm
tra
Eric,
Perhaps you could send me a brief e-mail explaining why you posted about this in the first place, because to me, it sure came across as if you, as a Clif supporter, were taking an opportunity to repeat a bit of unflattering gossip about Estelle. (I sign in with my e-mail address every time I post, so you should have access to my e-mail address. If not, let me know here in the comment thread and I’ll go ahead and post my e-mail address in the text of a comment.)
In the meantime, I see that, at least here on this thread, there is only one account of this (non)event that has a name attached to it, and as it so happens, that person is in a position to know what actually happened:
“Terri emailed me to say that the interview of Estelle is underway, and that the whole thing was blown out of proportion by someone gossiping.
Given that I am unable to gauge the credibility or motivations of your anonymous “sources,” or the unnamed alleged “gossiper,” nor whether any of those people were even in a position to know what actually happened in the first place, at this point I’m inclined to believe Terri’s account of situation.
P.S.,
Feel free to remove this comment if you wish — I would have e-mailed it to you privately, but couldn’t find your e-mail address anywhere on this blog. If you want folks to be able to contact you off-forum, you may want to put a “contact” link at the top of the page, and provide an e-mail address. Just a suggestion.
June 2, 2012 at 5:41 am
anon
tra, you should change your moniker from the reasonable alternative to the nit-picker in chief…
i hope you’re not this boring and ridiculous in real life…
get over it mi amigo…
June 2, 2012 at 6:28 am
Anonymous
Ernie, I’m not partial to the science/religion fued, but you’ve got some powerful gods on your side if when you literally see more pavement on the surface of the earth within what is today refered to as Richardson Grove is somehow going to be the same or less pavement on the surface of the planet in your mind. Turnouts, retaining walls, wider margins, redwoods will be cut (not ancient enough for you, but children of their own kingdom).
But thank you Ernie for reminding us that Estelle Fennell supports cutting more freeway through an ancient redwood grove in sohum!
Please, tell as many people as you can within her district that she thinks it’s a good idea; you’ll be doing people like me, who don’t want her governing so much as a banana slug let alone our land, a huge favor.
June 2, 2012 at 8:13 am
Charley
Hello? 6:28? Clif supports the Richardson Grove widening 100 percent. He supports anything proposed by governmental entities he doesn’t understand. Remember, he supports armed Code Enforcement, and also shutting down Board discussion of public input on the subject of public participation. He already knows what he thinks: he thinks whatever staff explains to him. In the two instances I allude to here, Clif couldn’t muster a second on his motions. I’ll say this for him, he makes the rest of the Board look good.
June 2, 2012 at 8:39 am
Anonymous
All well and good, charley. I didn’t comment about clif, did I? Keep cheerleading “your team”.
Anybody who supports the Richardson Grove “improvement project” does not have my support.
June 2, 2012 at 8:40 am
Anonymous
This is the reason tra is trying to keep the conversation side-tracked.
Estelle is still up to her deceitful ways. It is illegal to put peoples names on your endorsement list without their permission. It isn’t we the publics responsibility to call her campaign and ask to have our names removed. She said everyone on her list said yes to be on it. Welllllll, Scotty McClure didn’t say yes. He wasn’t even called. Same thing happened 4 years ago with a couple of other school board members who had not given her permission to use their names.
June 2, 2012 at 8:42 am
Anonymous
Yes Charley. Clif is honest in his position. He doesn’t side step or parse his words like your deceitful gal does.
June 2, 2012 at 11:54 am
Eric Kirk
Charley – I thought about that meme at a Lafco meeting recently, when he bucked a staff recommendation. It was on a point that is probably not of great interest to most of the public. But when even a small contradiction to a constant meme comes about, it becomes more noticeable. Kind of like the voters who’ve been testing the “doesn’t return phone calls” meme.
June 2, 2012 at 12:28 pm
tra
Eriuc said: ” Kind of like the voters who’ve been testing the “doesn’t return phone calls” meme.”
Actually, Clif admitted in one of the debates that this had been a problem for him. I give him credit for admitting it. He says he’s been working hard to improve in this area, and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is. But I note his admission because you have, in the past, basically claimed that anyone who said Clif was failing to return their calls was just plain lying. Looks like a lot of them probably weren’t.
Perhaps the reason that this criticism seemed false to his supporters, but rings true to some others is because he’d been doing a great job of returning calls from his friends, supporters, and acquaintances, but maybe a little less consistent with others?
June 2, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Eric Kirk
I never said anyone was lying tra. I said that he spends late hours into the night on the telephone, which was why his wife had such a negative reaction to the criticism.
I’m sure it hasn’t been easy to keep up on the phone calls. I suspect that he receives far more telephone calls than any other supervisor.
June 2, 2012 at 1:56 pm
tra
okay, I shouldn’t have use the word “lying,” because for all I know you didn’t use that exact word. But would you agree that you’ve questioned whether his failure to return phone calls has been a real problem, as opposed to just a “meme” promoted by his opponents?
It seems to me that there’s no getting around the fact that a number of people have complained that Clif has failed to return their calls, and there’s no getting around the fact that he has now admitted that, yes, this has been a weakness of his. Like I said, I credit him for admitting that, and take him at his word that he’s trying to improve in that area. Better late than never, I guess.
June 2, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Eric Kirk
I think there are only so many hours in the day, and I think he does the best he can in a very vocal district. Maybe he needs to shorten some calls in order to accomodate others, but that also leads to trade-offs. The Second District is not easy to represent.
June 2, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Charley
Most people outside of Clif’s coterie knows that he doesn’t return phone calls, or respond to emails. We marginal people have griped about this for four years. It’s not a secret, or a recent ‘meme.’ It’s a chronic complaint he ignored, one of many. Clif’s previous meme on the subject? “I’ve got a steep learning curve.” I’ll say. And I’m not lyin.’
Eric, your point that Clif may return more calls during a close election is, well, what it is.
ps 6:28, I’m glad you’re not for Clif either. Are you suggesting we vote for that banana slug you mentioned?
June 2, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Eric Kirk
I would venture to guess that it’s probably 50 people or so who account for 90 percent of the phone calls and emails. And so the one who gets three out of the first four calls returned, but doesn’t get the fourth, will probably complain about that unreturned call. The suggestion that he avoids people whom may be critical of his positions is belied by the fact that each of the HumCPR inner circle have multiple accounts of conversations with him which they freely share. So if he’s not returning your phone calls, are you cornering him in the hallway or something? Approaching him in restaurants?
June 2, 2012 at 4:49 pm
Anonymous
estelle doesn’t return all phone calls either.
June 2, 2012 at 9:20 pm
anon
well the truth is somewhere out there and i will repeat:
if he doesn’t return phone calls that alone is a reason to kick him out, and i generally support him, but for a local official, our representative, to not return calls is unacceptable…
but i don’t know if that’s true so…………
June 3, 2012 at 6:40 am
anon
okay, if a constituent needs some help, like having problem with the building dept or something then return that call! but if its just someone raving at him or just wants to talk then its not necessary…
June 3, 2012 at 6:56 am
Charley
I’ve seen Clif on Thursday afternoons when he’s supposed to keep local office hours. Sometimes he shows up, you never know.
He didn’t respond to my calls and emailed documentation after the election, though I had spent hours helping him get up to speed on code issues, starting before he won. I tailed off when I realized I might as well just bark at squirrels, and enjoy myself.
This response here is what’s called “Shooting the messenger.” It’s a time-honored way of refusing to get a message. There’s a lot of messengers to shoot.
June 3, 2012 at 8:30 am
Anonymous
Charley, why not get your self up to speed on your gals faults. Like illegally using Scotty McClure’s name on her endorsement list.
There are more ya know.
June 3, 2012 at 8:38 am
tra
In news from the better-late-than-never department, it looks like the Humboldt County Board of Supervisors may finally be taking steps — well, at least baby steps — toward some kind of amnesty for unpermitted residences.
From the Times-Standard:
“Then the supervisors will discuss the feasibility of developing a building amnesty program that would allow unpermitted structures to come into compliance by obtaining a post-construction permit.”
http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_20772669/proposed-2012-2013-humboldt-county-budget-ready-review
June 3, 2012 at 8:38 am
Eric Kirk
anon – I actually think it’s part of the job to endure “raving,” at least to a certain extent.
I think there was a problem early on, but he learned how to economize his time as time went on. He’ll definitely be mindful of it in his second term.
For the record, I’m removing posts which contain only insults. I’ll allow for a little rough and tumble in posts, as long as there’s some substance to it.
Hopefully I’ll see most of you at the Summer Arts Faire!
June 3, 2012 at 8:40 am
Eric Kirk
TRA – Clif actually announced that on Charley’s show some weeks ago.
June 3, 2012 at 8:56 am
tra
Oh, and it looks like the are also going to eliminate the “economic and natural resources development” department — which pretty much everyone acknowledges had been created basically as a consolation prize to ease Kirk Girard out of his role as head of the planning department without outright firing him. With Girard leaving for a job in Santa Clara, it turns out that the Supes aren’t really interested in paying anyone other than Girard the six figure income that would have gone along with heading up this newly-created, and now about-to-be-dismantled department.
From the Times-Standard:
“The last discussion item on the supervisors’ agenda is the recommendation to place the natural resources division under the supervision of the director of public works and merge the economic development department into the county administrative office.”
http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_20772669/proposed-2012-2013-humboldt-county-budget-ready-review
By the way, a previous T-S article quoted the Phillip Smith-Hanes, current head of the county administrative office as saying that:
“economic development ‘is not something that I know a great deal about, but I’m willing to learn.’”
http://www.times-standard.com/ci_20614659/supervisors-mull-nixing-newly-created-position?source=most_viewed
Good thing Humboldt is already in such a solid position economically, such that we can afford to turn these duties over to someone with little to no experience or expertise in economic development.
June 3, 2012 at 9:04 am
tra
“TRA – Clif actually announced that on Charley’s show some weeks ago.”
Yes. I recall, and I’m glad to see it may actually be moving forward — even if it’s just at an initial “discussion” stage right now, and even though it has been officially announced just two days before he comes up for re-election.
Like I said, better late than never.
Maybe tomorrow we’ll finally get a straightforward answer from him about his position on the TPZ residence issue? (But I guess I won’t hold my breath).
June 3, 2012 at 11:09 am
Anonymous
tra–what say u and i both hold our breath and wait for estelle to tell us her position on Richardson Grove, her answer on code enforcement?
Aaaaaannnnd speaking of being better late than never, her position on Tooby Ranch? The 101?
And the host of other recent flip-flops she’s made.
June 3, 2012 at 11:26 am
Charley
tra, you may remember that Clif’s scoop was that he was working to imitate an already failed amnesty program in Mendocino. That was why I lost my cool on the air, his secret imitation of a proven failure was such an insult to the work done over decades to create an effective program. I’ll guess the reason for Mendo’s fine amnesty ordinance was to enable rich growers to get permitted-up as the price for joining Sheriff Allman’s Pot Protection racket, which you’ll remember didn’t work out as advertised either.
Anyway, the program was for wealthy recent builders. It did nothing for and offered nothing to the literally thousands of legacy homes across rural Mendocino still threatened by code uncertainties. The Humboldt program won’t either.
Want to hear a strange coincidence? The failed Mendo amnesty had 50-odd participants. The failed Mendo Pot Protection Program had 50-odd fully subscribed participants. This is the kind of information that Clif can’t absorb. It’s why he’s associated with so many failed programs, in only one term. In reality, what staff says doesn’t influence what people actually do. Influence takes more work and cooperation than writing reality-free ordinances. So when you spend your life talking to staff and ignoring people on the ground, you get ungrounded; you become Clif Clendenen.
I just realized, I suspect the reason for our phony amnesty must be the stalled outdoor medical marijuana regulations overdue from the county. We were going to imitate Allman all the way. Since Clif initiates nothing, that would account for why this pitiful policy orphan exists at all.
June 3, 2012 at 12:42 pm
tra
“It did nothing for and offered nothing to the literally thousands of legacy homes across rural Mendocino still threatened by code uncertainties. The Humboldt program won’t either.”
Isn’t it a bit premature at this point to declare the Humboldt program “phony” and assume it is guaranteed to be a failure, before it’s even been discussed by the Board of Supervisors, much less enacted by them? I’m sure there’s plenty of reason for skepticism about what the staff and some of the Supes may be envisioning — and some basis for feeling pessimistic about the likely outcome — but your comment seems like it’s bordering on outright cynicism.
Isn’t there any room for any optimism here? Don’t you think it’s possible that the reason that the Board of Supervisors is even going to be discussing any kind of amnesty program is that folks like yourself have had some real success in promoting the idea? It seems to me that at least some of the current Supes must either see that the idea has some real merit from a policy point of view, or else at least recognize that from a political point of view, this is something that a significant number of voters want to see happen. Either way, that seems like good news.
Don’t you think it might make sense to use this moment as an opportunity to make a renewed push to mobilize people to steer the Board toward creating a better amnesty program? Part of that would certainly include pointing out what has or hasn’t worked in other counties, and ways that we might try to do things more effectively with our own ordinance. Just because the staff and some members of the Board of Supervisors are looking to the Mendo program as a “model” doesn’t mean that this is necessarily where we need to end up.
Yes, if the current Supes are already committed to essentially just copying the Mendo program more or less in its entirety, then whatever problems and weaknesses the Mendo program has will obviously be problems here, too. But if the Mendo program is just taken as a “starting point for discussion” then that’s another matter entirely. And even if the current Supervisors enact something during the upcoming “lame duck” period, they will not necessarily have the final say, since there will be at least one new Supervisor coming into office (in the 1st district), quite possibly a second new supervisor (in the 2nd district) and, at least theoretically a third new supervisor (in the 3rd district, though I very much doubt it). So it seems to be that there is a lot of room for movement to happen.
You’ll have to forgive me if my perspective seems overly optimistic. I haven’t been deeply involved in this issue the way some other folks have been, and I guess maybe that’s why I don’t have quite the same sense of the near-inevitability of failure and disappointment that your comment seemed (at least to me) to be conveying.
June 3, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Anonymous
Charley doesn’t want Clif to succeed. If something, anything, comes out that is positive and moves forward, Charley will be looking to find the one thing that HE finds wrong.
Hell hath no fury like the wrath of a scorned Charley.
June 3, 2012 at 6:54 pm
Eric Kirk
Again, my view of the Mendo amnesty program is that it “failed” because the county is so lax in enforcing its codes (kind of like Humboldt used to be) that there’s no incentive to expend the energy, time, or money. Mendo sent a message with the Noyo River Bridge development that pretty much anything goes, so nobody takes them seriously until a complaint is actually filed and they’re forced to respond.
For better or worse, and in overzealous fashion, Humboldt County has made clear its intention to enforce its codes. I expect that there will be many more takers with our amnesty program.
June 4, 2012 at 6:55 am
gpf
So,
Humboldt County wields a big stick to enforce its codes, and therefore there will be many more takers with our amnesty program.
How about carrots, involving stakeholders, decriminalizing the building of shelter? We have to try to be friends (not adversaries) as we live our lives in Humboldt County.
Eric, how about starting a new thread for the election?
.
June 4, 2012 at 8:01 am
Anonymous
It is a great idea to have a conditional occupancy permit for folks to decide if they can afford/want to come up to code. Many other counties have this same thing in place. It works great. A person can work on it at their pace, as money or time allows. And perspective buyers know the course they may be embarking on.
June 4, 2012 at 8:14 am
Charley
You said it, gpf. Rural communities were scorned for 40 years before the county started scorning me.
The Building Department chief, Todd Sebalic (who Clif said is writing the ordinance), expressed himself very clearly in the Code Enforcement hearings. He said there can never be a building amnesty of any kind (despite AOB already in place), because some house will catch fire, and some grandparent will sue the county for letting kids live like–shhh!–we’ve lived for 40 years here without suing the county. On and on we go, until someone leads the stupifyingly ignorant deadlock in a constructive direction.
What Eric says is true, but largely irrelevant. And it’s largely true of Humboldt as well. The bigger picture is that the county wants nothing to do with governance of the countryside, beyond platitudinizing in ordinance form, and keeping it in large holdings that are easier to pretend to control from meetings in Eureka. Staff will never offer formal permission for us to ignore them.
tra, I think you answered your own questions at the end of your thoughtful post. Over time we can see that our county *only* imitates ordinances governing the countryside. That’s the laziest way to avoid working with the people the ordinances would affect, if they had any effect. I know I sound cynical, and I’m not proud of it. Do you think I should run away and join a monastery, or a circus?
June 4, 2012 at 8:33 am
Eric Kirk
I don’t get it Charley. You’re saying that the problem is that the County won’t regulate you enough?
June 4, 2012 at 8:48 am
anon
none of any of that shit matters: its our home town gal vs fortuna’s home town gal, and many in between so i’m changing my vote to estelle…
June 4, 2012 at 8:52 am
Anonymous
You mean it’s our home town guy versus fortuna’s home town guy. None of that shit matters? What an idiotic thing to say.
June 4, 2012 at 8:59 am
Anonymous
anon @ 8:48am–I find it hard to believe that you ever intended to vote for Clif.
Your statement is a game of some sort.
June 4, 2012 at 10:37 am
Anonymous
Part of education is learning from others’ experience. Failures, successes, mistakes. It appears that Charley wants to keep re-inventing the wheel. That it’s Charley’s way, or no way. There is nothing wrong with using other peoples’ good ideas.
June 4, 2012 at 10:58 am
Charley
Eric, we have real problems susceptible to regulatory solutions. Depleted and oxygenated water. Bad building practices. Insane grading. And we have a county government eager to splat generic statutes over very particular conditions, with a deep commitment to speak to or interact with the people and problems it’s ignorant of as little as possible. This has created a consistent track record of accomplishing nothing on the ground. You seem to think this is fine. I disagree.
I went to the county website agenda to see what Clif is proposing. It’s laughable. He announced *two months ago* that he was working with Todd to write an ordinance. Tomorrow, the day of election itself, his recommendation is titled “Consider Directing Staff to Develop a Building Amnesty Program.” He’s going to ask the Board to recommend that Todd write a proposal for starting a process to create a program. What was Clif doing for the last two months when he could have typed up this recommendation in 5 minutes?
Stalling until he can’t be criticized for doing nothing, after he’s already taken credit for doing something, perhaps? Or stalling so the county’s proposal can’t be criticized until after his reelection bid?
Hate to say it so late in the game, but Clif is dishonest. He was also dishonest about his desire to keep Code Enforcement armed, until he couldn’t get a Board second on his motion. Now in his ads he claims credit for disarming them. That’s a pandering lie, and it’s lucky that the people he’s lying to know better than to fall for it. But of course his voters are in Fortuna, and they can’t be expected to track his lies down here. I’ll be glad when Clif’s sent back to the orchard.
June 4, 2012 at 11:49 am
Anonymous
Charley,
NO ONE is more dishonest than estelle.
Let me repeat this for you Charley:
NO ONE IS MORE DISHONEST THAN ESTELLE.
Shall we start with Scotty McClure?
June 4, 2012 at 11:56 am
Charley
!0:37, I’m not talking about good ideas, I’m talking about proven failures. I’ve described the failure, and explained it. Even Clif acknowledged on the radio that the program he promised to imitate hadn’t attracted many participants; he didn’t care. So what are you talking about?
There are many good ideas on how to create a successful amnesty program. They’ve been discussed for 30 years. I do agree with you that we should try them sometime.
And why are you still talking about me? I’m the messenger, not the message.
June 4, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Eric Kirk
Okay, so everybody’s a liar, an asshole, and, whatever.
God I’m looking forward to Wednesday! I used to enjoy these things.
June 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Anonymous
Whose message Charley? Yours? HumCPR?
Your post of anger and hatred sounds like you have either been eating gun powder for breakfast, or standing too close to the coffee machine.
You need to take a deep breath and a cold shower. It will all be over tomorrow night, one way or another. It is up to the Vox populi.
You need to be reminded that Bob McKee plead guilty to illegal grading and operating an illegal gravel pit as part of the Tooby lawsuit.
June 4, 2012 at 12:14 pm
tra
Charley,
No I don’t think you should run away and join a circus or monastery — unless you really, really want to, in which case by all means you should!
I think you should (and fervently hope you will) just keep on keepin’ on — because clearly you are a passionate, eloquent and often quite effective voice for rural residents, plus you’re an excellent writer with an engaging, colorful, and fun-to-read (if sometimes somewhat hyperbolic/bombastic) style.
I just think that — like anyone else — when you get too far towards the cynicism end of the spectrum, your effectiveness is undermined. I know that’s true for me, and believe me, I struggle plenty with that fuzzy line between well-founded skepticism and potentially-counterproductive cynicism, so I don’t blame you at all for sometimes veering over into cynicism territory…lard knows when it comes to the county’s approach to rural land use issues there’s plenty of history to justify that cynicism.
I can certainly understand why you might strongly suspect that little good will come from an amnesty program designed and enacted by the current county staff and current Board of Supervisors. I just think that there is some risk of self-fulfilling prophecy there, where if we just assume it’s inevitably going to be a waste of time and the final product is inevitably going to be useless (or worse than useless), and as a result of that assumption we either just don’t engage at all, or else only engage in a negative cynical-sounding way, we’ll end up contributing to the very outcome we would like to avoid.
My hope is that plenty of folks who would like to see an amnesty program that actually works well for rural residents in Humboldt will take advantage of the fact that the Supervisors are at least going to be officially considering some kind of amnesty, and that as a result there is significant public pressure to try to steer them in a constructive direction. If the current Board decides to act during the lame-duck session between the election and next January, and they end up passing something that we think is going to be ineffective or counterproductive, we should certainly say so, loud and clear (I’m not suggesting we just knuckle under or keep quiet or anything like that), and then once the new Board is seated, we should start pushing the new Board to change and improve the program in ways that we think will make it work better.
And, yes, obviously the outcome may depend, to a significant degree, on who is elected to the Board and so it may actually be better if the program is a product of the new Board, rather than the lame-duck board. If Estelle does win the 2nd district race, I think it’s very likely that there will be a much better result if the Board waits for her to take her seat before taking any final action on the amnesty program — because her solid understanding of the issue and all the history around it, her high level of support among rural residents and ability to engage them and help bring their perspective into the discussion in a meaningful way, could make a big difference in terms of increasing trust and increasing voluntary participation in the amnesty program. And of course whoever wins the 1st district race (and I’m assuming it will be either Bohn or Seidner) should also have a chance to get up to speed on the issue and take part in the final decision, so that the most recent expression of the will of the voters will be honored. But that still doesn’t preclude the possibility that getting the Board’s discussion underway now could still be a useful opportunity for public input and engagement.
June 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm
tra
“I went to the county website agenda to see what Clif is proposing. It’s laughable. He announced *two months ago* that he was working with Todd to write an ordinance. Tomorrow, the day of election itself, his recommendation is titled “Consider Directing Staff to Develop a Building Amnesty Program.” He’s going to ask the Board to recommend that Todd write a proposal for starting a process to create a program. What was Clif doing for the last two months when he could have typed up this recommendation in 5 minutes?”
Charley,
From my point of view, maybe it’s just as well that they haven’t moved forward too much on it in the last couple of months…more chance for input prior to the development of an initial proposal. In other words, a chance to try to shape an initial proposal that folks like us can work to improve, rather than something we’ll have to start off trying to defeat before we can even begin to move forward toward something we can support.
I know, it sure does look like a case of the incumbent maybe just giving lip service to the idea of an amnesty, just in time for the election. And maybe that’s the case. But it’s also possible that the delay is in part due to Clif receiving some push-back (including you during the radio show) to the effect that just copying the Mendo ordinance is not going to go over well and that it would be better (both politically, and in terms of policy) if they don’t rush into it. Yeah, maybe overly-sunny over-optimism there, but why not proceed in a way that allows for the possibility that something good could come out of this process, and do what we can to try to make that happen?
I know we’re right down to the wire on this election, and you’ve got good reason not to want to give Clif any credit for suddenly talking about the amnesty issue at this time. And I kind of feel the same way — after all, he didn’t seem to make any effort to move an amnesty program forward anytime in the last 3 1/2 years. But the 2nd district election will be over tomorrow, and either way it goes in the 2nd district, there’s going to be some change in the Board (definitely someone new coming onto the Board in the 1st district, we may know who by Wednesday, or maybe not until November) and hopefully the amnesty discussion will not just disappear after the election is over.
June 4, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Charley
Hyperbolic??!! BomBAStic!!???
Just kidding, thanks tra. You make a good point that any discussion may be better than none–though experience until now argues otherwise. Todd will indeed have a new crowd to play to on the Board. I hope their directions given tomorrow will include specific directive to engage with the public from the beginning, particularly with people who have been all over this issue for decades.
The solution even to poor Eric’s malaise is genuine public participation. It’ll make us feel less dominated by . . . what he said. Eric, I dare say I’m as sick of all this as you are. After the election, let’s be eager optimists again! First round’s on me.
June 4, 2012 at 1:30 pm
tra
After the election, let’s be eager optimists again!
Right on, Charley.
I’m sort of trying to get a head-start on that. I’ll admit it’s maybe a bit, well, forced, but it still feels like the right direction to try to go. And it’s probably a lot easier for me than it is for you, because I’m nowhere near as close to one of the candidates or as deeply involved in the campaigning as you are.
And while I do think Estelle is the better candidate, and I’ve been disappointed with a number of Clif’s actions or positions, (or in some cases lack of action or what I see as a lack of a clear position) on quite a few issues, including code enforcement, the “urgency ordinance,” and TPZ policy, I haven’t got quite the level of anger and disappointment that you seen to have…probably, again, in part because I haven’t been so closely involved, and maybe in part because my expectations weren’t all that high in the first place.
I don’t know who’s going to win, but I do think it’s going to be fairly close. And if it is, then in my opinion whoever wins should take their victory with humility and commit themselves to not overreaching their mandate, and instead looking hard for common ground whenever that can be found. If one side or the other wins narrowly, but acts as if that outcome means that they should push forward with their agenda with little to no compromise, that would be really unfortunate. Again, maybe I’m being over-optimistic here, but I am hopeful that both of these candidates are thoughtful enough to understand that.
” First round’s on me.”
That’s the spirit!
June 4, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, depending on the results (locally and in Wisconsin), it may take a few days before I become an eager optimist again.
I really don’t know what’s going to happen in the Second District tomorrow. I’m cautiously optimistic for Clif, but I really have no idea. Having done my phone banking, I think Rio Dell is the biggest mystery.
I’m going to stop arguing for Clif at this point, because anyone who hasn’t made up his or her mind by now would probably change mind tomorrow based on whatever always prompted George Steinbrenner to fire Billy Martin on any given day. I think the die is pretty well cast at this point, and probably has been for awhile. It’s all about GOTV. Estelle may actually have an edge in that regard because some of her support is seriously motivated. The elderly in Fortuna vote like clockwork, but I don’t know if they’re all going to vote for Clif.
I did talk to one person at SAMF who decided to write in Jared Rossman (who is voting for Clif).
I’m going to do some phoning for a couple of candidates this afternoon and evening, and then I’ll close out with some thoughts here tonight.
June 4, 2012 at 2:05 pm
tra
“..anyone who hasn’t made up his or her mind by now would probably change mind tomorrow based on whatever always prompted George Steinbrenner to fire Billy Martin on any given day.
LOL!
Looks like Wisconsin’s going to be close. And unfortunately, I’m sure that if Walker wins, even by a tiny margin, and only after he’s massively outspent his opponent, he’s going to act as if the outcome is some kind of ringing endorsement of his policies — and unfortunately my guess is that most of the national media will run with that meme also. So that’s an additional reason to hope for his defeat (as if additional reasons were needed).
June 4, 2012 at 3:34 pm
pathetic actually
Estelle will do very well here in Sohum on election day. But it seems to me that for us Sohummers to get “one of our own” elected(without debating if estelle is even that person), we need to be 100% behind her AND she must manage to do really well in the more populous areas further north. We’re not particularly united behind one candidate here, so I’ll be really surprised if Estelle can garner a majority of votes in the District. My prediction is that Clif gets at least 53% of the votes districtwide.
June 4, 2012 at 6:55 pm
anon
anon 8:48: none of any of that shit matters: its our home town gal vs fortuna’s home town gal, and many in between so i’m changing my vote to estelle…
anon @ 8:48am–I find it hard to believe that you ever intended to vote for Clif.
Your statement is a game of some sort.
what!? Anonymous 11:59? you calling me a LIAR? i thought clif supporters were more civil than that?
okay you’re sorta right, here’s the story:
i finally realized how excited locals, garbervillians, bricelanders and especially elk ridgers were about the prospect of having one of their neighbors being elected to the board of supes, its cool man…
i also realized that local clif supporters were sticking to their guy, the guy who broke the republican grip on the second district seat since whenever…
but voting in mendo i’ve been on the sidelines, not having to choose, and i started to wonder who i WOULD vote for if i was humboldt, where i actually live full time…
i hadn’t given estelle much of a chance (indeed i still call it at 53-47 for clif) but when i saw the nice new truck driven by an old couple in fortuna with Bohn and Fennel bumperstickers i began to think, wow she does have a chance; the money she was getting from up north was probably attached to votes too, something i hadn’t really considered before…and getting all that money from development interests (even from the guy just fined $200K by the EPA for filling in wetlands!) might be a shrewd strategy of disparate coalition building. (shrewder still might have been balanced coverage of the reggae wars by estelle on kmud news but maybe she wasn’t thinking ahead politically, or maybe she’s just an intensely loyal person, in that case to carol)…
maybe the development money, the republican bucks from that crew up north isn’t much different than the “dirty bucks” earned around here in sohum for years, its a wash eh?
(and most homes in these hills are not up to code creating strong, self-interested support for estelle, who may have an outhouse herself)
meanwhile my friend called me saturday and said that the election dept had called him: he’d forgotten to sign his ballot and since i was going up to eureka monday could he ride along and sign it? he had voted for clif, solely on the advice he had procured from his friend on barley hill…i said sure, why not but when monday rolled along and i was jumping on the virtual estelle bandwagon i told him that i might not give him (in jest) a ride up there since his wayward vote was for clif. i explained how cool it would be to have a local on the board and he asked me if i knew estelle. yeah i did, i said, she’s alright. well, he said, i’ll change my vote to estelle then…
so i made the post at 8:48 and up we went to eureka where the election dept refused to let him change his vote but for a few hours there i felt like i was voting for estelle, although i never really could have voted for either…
on the way back home i stopped at estelle campaign headquarters in fortuna, picked up a sign, and talked to one of her supporters a mr bareilles who told me that his father represented the district for four terms in the 50s and whose daughter is the famous sarah bareilles the singer…
(and his brother is the bareilles who had been embroiled in a development dispute in northern humboldt…hmmmm)
the sign is up, go estelle!
either would be okay i think but it would just be way more interesting to have estelle sitting up there, si?
(although estelle did tell me that clif and his wife cross-dressed as
sunny and cher so maybe clif isn’t such a dull guy)