And of course today’s Kick-Off event is just a couple of hours away.
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March 10, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Anonymous
Yuck.
Ugly poster.
March 10, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Joe Blow
Still promoting the auction, I see…
March 10, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Eric Kirk
Voted in every election since I turned 18 Joe. It’s not even just about politics. It’s part of what it means to be American. So yes, I’m still “promoting the auction.” Always.
March 10, 2012 at 6:46 pm
Anonymous
I had to leave Estelle’s Benbow event early (it’s still going on) but she had a great turn out. At least 250 people had a great time. Good food, music, stories, and comraderie. I have no idea how much she raised but there were lots of items being sold and bidding was brisk. While the event was certainly on Estelle’s home turf so was Clif’s last one in Fortuna which was not nearly as well attended. If this event is any indicator Clif will have a formidable battle ahead and better get started if he wants to catch up in the race.
March 10, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Dave Kirby
Good to hear that many turned out. I’m with Eric. The more the better. History has shown that the incumbent is hard to beat in this race. Heider was the first sitting supervisor to lose in many years. He made a blunder and paid for it. Fortuna politics is complex. When it comes to factions the The Friendly City it ain’t. Get out there grab a horse you like, this could be a real fun race.
March 10, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Stephen
Oh yeah, politics sells newspapers as much as it sponsors venues for political career opportunists who, like I say, bend with the winds of expediency so we end up with an apple farmer businessman finding friends in Progressive circles to counter the Rodoni threat and a former Irish hippie turned a Lady, both currying the majority vote, promising whatever it takes to get it. Meanwhile, who’s planning ahead? Our Planning Commission? Give me a break. With Estelle, you’ll get the Realtor/Subdivider/outlaw hippies as dope growers special interest group represented although you can bet the farm that once in office Estelle will distance herself from “extremists” pot grower demands. With Cliff you get nothing much more than a Supervisor seat warmed and paycheck cashed while his office maintains the Prog anti-Humboldt Bay/anti-railroad card along with Lovelace, all of these political animals seeking higher offices and greater chances to cater to the lowest common denominator where the votes for winning elections are kept. We need substantive change, not politics as usual. Our economy is tragically fragile and now dependent on another major industry going south, commercial pot growing as legalization is already creating urban growers and the vast agricultural valleys haven’t even been touched commercially yet but will be with legalization. Who’s planning ahead for that?
March 11, 2012 at 10:11 am
anonomous says
We arrived at Estelle’s Benbow event late and it was pretty awesome to see the Sea of cars parked that was backed up all the way up to the 101 off ramp to the Benbow Inn. Had to park far away and hoof it all the way to the Inn but it was well worth it. We got there just in time for Estelle’s speech and she gave one of the most inspiring speeches and had the whole crowd hootin and a hollerin.
It was really a fun community event!
March 11, 2012 at 10:25 am
Anon
Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were really over 300 people that attended throughout the whole Benbow event. I got there around 3 and it was standing room only in all the rooms except the Tent and even that was 1/2 full. the Food and Wine was amazing.
It seems like Estelle’s campaign is really well organized and has a lot of support. I looked around to see who was in attendance and there was quite a mix from all sectors. This really bodes well for Estelle and our community.
I really do believe that Fennell is going to pull it off this time now that it’s only between her and Clif.
March 11, 2012 at 11:46 am
Anonymous
NOT gonna happen.
estelle does not have full support of “our” community.
March 11, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Anonymous
I just love these “not gonna happen” proclamations.
Personally, I know and like Clif, and especially given that he’s the incumbant and done anything outrageously wrong or contraversial, think he will win.
I could be wrong though…I think most in the local blogosphere at least had those same kind of “not gonna happen” thoughts with regards to the Eureka elections with regards to Larry Glass and Ron Kuhnel; I mean, who’d even heard of Mike Newman, and most were mocking Marian Brady’s (very effective) signs and campaign slogan (Join the Brady Bunch).
Of course Estelle doesn’t have the “full” support of our community, but I don’t think anyone in this thread has stated that; in fact that’s kind of a strawman.
March 11, 2012 at 8:46 pm
anon4cec
It’s generally a bad idea for politicians to underestimate just how fed up the electorate can get with extremism. The commentor at 4:17 rightly points that incumbants, even well known ones, are not necessarily safe especially when their positions are grossly unreflective of their constituents. The big question for Clif is whether he can continue to hide his positions through the election or if he will moderate himself to be consistant or only slightly left of average second district voters. Of course then he would also be acceptable to the same folks that are against him now. I don’t think he is at all the type to lie so he has a choice obfuscate or moderate, build allies through reasonableness or enemies through extremism. Of course Estelle’s campaign will have to effectively get her message out too.
This will certainly be the election that will be the most interesting to watch unfold from a social science perspective. Were there not so much at stake it might be just plain fun to watch.
March 11, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually, he is very much looking forward to the debates in which the General Plan Update will be discussed, so that he can clear up a great many misconceptions about the substance and process. He won’t be “hiding” anything. He’ll be clarifying.
The debates will be much more interesting than the prior campaigns as both candidates are very well informed about the GPU. More so than the candidates for the other districts as well, excepting Mark Lovelace whose opponent will probably avoid the subject when possible.
March 11, 2012 at 9:44 pm
anon4cec
Sorry, While I think Clif is a pretty decent and generally honest guy all I have seen so far is the politicians duck and run. I mean seriously A- B+, what the hell does that mean? If I had a great compromise idea I’d be yelling it at the top of my lungs. I can’t see any reason for keeping a position to myself other than that i don’t want anyone to know what it is or to have time to reasonably eveluate and question it. Why would Clif or anyone else want to delay an effort to, “clear up a great many misconceptions about the substance and process” unless they are concerned about the substance of their opinion or reception it will receive. I really don’t mean my comments as a slight to Clif but it is our future and our families that are at stake. I think we deserve clear, concise, and prompt and have yet to receive it. Clif has been in office for almost two years and now he is going to tell us what he thinks? I understand that it is a complicated issue and takes a while to full grasp but consider how it looks to someone looking in. If Clif really wants the public trust perhaps he should put his trust in the public.
I suppose I may just be a skeptic, which is what happens after you’ve been misled enough times, but I seriously question the motives of anyone who keeps their opinions to themselves.
March 11, 2012 at 10:05 pm
anon4cec
“….excepting Mark Lovelace whose opponent will probably avoid the subject when possible.”
I agree that Brooks will likely not delve too deeply into the GPU as she has not been involved in this particular issue and is not up on the specifics but to be fair it’s not like Mark would ever consider accurately expressing his intent to take away the rights and freedoms of families across the county and how his plans will destitute their savings and dreams.
Clif can profess some level of moderation which I hope will prove truthful, Mark cannot. Ask the average Fortuna voter if they like that Clif votes in virtual lockstep with Mark. You won’t like what you hear. I have no doubt that Clif’s campaign is ready for this question and that there is a list of votes designed to show his independence but will Fortuna see through the facade? Is Clif really different in his goals from Mark? If so when will Clif show his independence. This is quite possibley the fundemental question of this campaign.
March 11, 2012 at 11:15 pm
Eric Kirk
Why would Clif or anyone else want to delay an effort to, “clear up a great many misconceptions about the substance and process” unless they are concerned about the substance of their opinion or reception it will receive.
A number of misconceptions have been spread, and it’s hard to respond to them all. But he will address some of the more important misconceptions, and for those who haven’t been whipped up into a froth with conspiracy theories about autocrats wanting to drive them off their land, the explanations will be enough because they conform to common sense.
Mark will say what he believes, namely that the county has not historically done what is necessary to preserve the rivers, open space, and resource land, and that some of the elements of Plan A address those deficiencies. People who would rather be left alone won’t be happy as some moved out into the hills hoping to get away from that kind of government scrutiny, but the sky wouldn’t fall if most of the provisions were implemented.
From what I understand the GPU as drafted has been submitted to the Planning Commission and is awaiting the EIR. Presumably, once the EIR is signed off on, it will go to the Board. So are there objections to the plan specifically, or will people continue to rant about the provisions which are in A, but not in the submitted plan? What is objectionable in the submitted plan specifically? That should, and hopefully will be, the focus of the discussion.
March 12, 2012 at 7:09 am
Dave Kirby
The county’s land use plan means very little to the vast majority of voters in Rio Dell or Fortuna. Do the math. Thats where the votes are in this district. Estelle has made inroads up there with her experience at CPR. That support from what I can see is chiefly among the folks who deal with land use and development. Estelle will do much better than she did in the three way race with Johanna and Clif. Will she win? I don’t know and anybody who says they do is blowing smoke at this point.
March 12, 2012 at 7:16 am
Dave Kirby
By the way, where is Local Solutions this time around?
March 12, 2012 at 8:18 am
Anonymous
estelle, like mckee and rob arkley, want to develop every single acre of land that they can.
estelle is one of the biggest spreaders of the lie “people will get kicked off their land”
She is charismatic to some, but then, so was Hitler.
March 12, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Eric Kirk
Hitler? Come on anonymous!
March 12, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Jim Ferguson
Remember, the rule is, the first one to mention Hitler loses.
March 12, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Not A Native
Eric, was it actually you who recently posted three messages with your name in Hank’s blog about an incident at the Eureka Courthouse??
March 12, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Joe Blow
Eric says, “Voted in every election since I turned 18 Joe. It’s not even just about politics. It’s part of what it means to be American.” It is about what YOU believe “it means to be American.” All you ever did since you were 18 is vote in the people that bought and paid for these whore you voted for. You’d think a brilliant guy like you would know the difference. But then, on second thought, maybe you do know the difference and the actual value of your vote all along. Either way, your vote makes you responsible and accountable for what is “American.” Good luck with that.
March 12, 2012 at 7:44 pm
tra
“All you ever did since you were 18 is vote in the people that bought and paid for these whore you voted for.”
There are several unwarranted assumptions packed into that little sentence.
March 13, 2012 at 8:20 am
Joe Blow
… and why might those supposed “unwarranted assumptions” be?
March 13, 2012 at 9:39 am
Joe Blow
Eric,
This statement, voting is “part of what it means to be American” is significant if you believe that individual legitimacy as an American derives from some sort of differential recognition by virtue of your vote or right to vote. What does one get in comparable worth as as American when they exercise the same right to NOT vote? Does this person somehow now become lessor than an “American”?
When the voting is rigged (bought in an auction) and those that are a majority vote are NOT seen or heard by the elected representative, are they now “lessor than an ‘American’” for trying to be seen and heard through their demonstrations and protests actions? This is the problem with the Occupy Movement and reason Felix Omai got brutalized. They are judged lessor, sub-Americans because they don’t vote or speak the right way. Right now there is a movement afoot with the county Supervisors to regulate these lessor American’s right to be seen and heard. They and their duplicitous supporters and collaborators believe the problems they caused will simply go away if they don’t have to look at or hear what their fellow “Americans” have to say.
Simply put, part of being an American is as much about voting as it is about NOT voting.
March 13, 2012 at 11:20 am
tra
Joe,
The unwarranted assumptions are that: (1) Eric hasn’t done anything else other than vote, and (2) everyone Eric has voted for was “bought and paid for.” You may not think those assumptions are unwarranted, but i do.
March 13, 2012 at 1:46 pm
Joe Blow
First I didn’t assume anything. I took Eric at his word. Read what he says; his words speak for themselves, as do mine. As does the political history of every person voted into office. No one gets into office without being obligated to someone in some way. They are all and were all bought unless they happened to be the reincarnated Jesus Christ. So believe what you want. Your beliefs and accusations cannot change the facts. When you vote, you vote for a bought whore. They all ask for your vote and they all ask for your money. Besides, Eric is a big boy and quite capable of speaking for himself. So, aside from elaborating on my original reason for commenting, and that being directed to Eric, what you “think” is irrelevant.
March 13, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Ernie's Place
Joe
I’m immensely relived to find that some Americans don’t vote. I’m hoping that you are among them… Keep up the good work.
March 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Joe Blow
There you go making assumptions based upon unproven hypothesis. Darn.
Why would you hope I don’t vote? Eric says that part of being an American.
March 13, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Ernie's Place
Joe, what did I assume? I agree with Eric, voting IS important, especially in local elections.
I somewhat agree that our national politicians do not represent us, that is because we don’t support their elections financially. How can we compete against the wealthy and the corporations that have endless funding, and own the news services to elect their own, how did you say “whores“?
We probably agree that we need to figure out how to start electing people that represent us. That is going to be a steep hill to climb and we will need a good plan. We all know what is wrong. The hollering is over. We need to develop a plan.
March 13, 2012 at 4:28 pm
Bolithio
Joe may be right about how voting no longer empowers our citizens. Particularly big national elections. I have felt that way for a long time now. Im not at all surprised by people who think voting is a waste of time.
March 13, 2012 at 5:27 pm
tra
Joe seems to have a whole lot of rage, and spews it about pretty indiscriminately, but what he doesn’t seem to have is much in the way of solutions. Either that or he’s inexplicably unwilling to share what he thinks those solutions are.
In other words…much more heat than light. But then again, perhaps that’s what he’s aiming for?
I feel sorry for Joe, because I think his heart is in the right place, but he just doesn’t seem to know how to have a grown-up conversation without erupting into one of his furious but impotent little verbal tantrums. Must be a hard way to go through life.
I suppose some kind of therapy might help, but of course first you have to admit you have a problem, and it doesn’t look like Joe recognizes that he has a problem. Oh well, maybe being able to come here and blow off some steam online makes him a bit less likely to direct his bile at others in person.
March 13, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Bolithio
What if there is no solution? Who’s problem would that belong to? Perhaps everyone needs therapy.
On another note, I love hearing people editorialize about other anonymous identities. The psychology of that is very fascinating, considering that no one other than the poster is truly reading their words the way they were intended. Once written, they become subject to the readers own bias and cultural filters.
March 14, 2012 at 8:14 am
Joe Blow
Ernie, before answering your question, let me get the following off my chest. Don’t want anyone to think I’m a crazy weirdo when I talk to you.
tra defines the reason I blog under the name Joe Blow. He and his kind are unable to deal with the subject. Joe Blow IS NOT THE SUBJECT. The first thing his kind do is call someone that doesn’t think like him crazy. I went through this ritual with Dave Stancliff. To his credit he finally saw the light. How tra knows that I’m angry is a mystery to me. I guess someone made him the Internet God.
tra does define the issue, however – “furious but impotent little verbal tantrums.” Are these not the words of an angry, vindictive and spiteful person? His conduct here, is motivated by the same sickness that caused the three state workers, including two CHP officers to accuse, assault and brutalize Felix Omai with total self-righteous justification. My comments, not unlike Felix Omai’s simple statement written on a sheet and hung over the highway in a rather obscure and irrelevant place do serve to expose the real problem: The wolves in sheep’s clothing.
March 14, 2012 at 8:52 am
Joe Blow
Ernie, now since you asked, let me see if we can communicate on an answer leading to a solution. I think you actually already know the answer. You said, “How can we compete …” and “We probably agree that we need to figure out how to start electing people that represent us.” From my vantage point, you set forth the fundamental criteria for a plan. Assuming there are such people, which is dubious, but possible, we would need to first define, and identify the “us.” For instance, you and I, with apparent different political and religious beliefs, share the same common interests and needs as a large number of our neighbors (I’m assuming). Right now no one is really articulating these unifying common interests. Except, perhaps, the vilified Occupy Movement. But they lack the common goal necessary for success. Starting with the local elections seems right. Next it is necessary to define what kind of people who possess the necessary characteristics required to “represent us.” One “characteristic” would be, a proven leader, not a follower. Once identified, WE (“us”) would need to FIRST approach this individual and personally request their participation and their representation. None of this business of someone, first, deciding they want to be elected and then asks everyone (begs) for their vote as happens now.
After that, well – the balls in your court.
March 14, 2012 at 9:24 am
Joe Blow
Bolithio, you present the very situation I’m constantly belabored with. We all experience life differently and possess our own “bias[es] and cultural filters.” It’s how we overcome these biases and filters that helps all of us understand better our motivating intent, or why we say and do the things we do. A good example is tra above, who is really just trying to work out his own demons while assaulting me with his litany of baseless accusation. That’s why I never take anything personal, even though it looks like I sometimes do.
You say, “considering that no one other than the poster is truly reading their words the way they were intended.” While that is obviously true, “words” do possess explicit meaning. The obvious solution to when there is some confusion or misunderstanding, rather than judge the person and try to blow them off, is to ASK A QUESTION. You can NEVER understand anything the other person says until you can accept that person and recognize their legitimate right to exist as an coequal person to you. Only then can you coexist and communicate. Even with “other anonymous identities.” This, currently, is the fundamental problem of the Occupy Movement.
March 14, 2012 at 9:35 am
Ernie's Place
Joe, thanks for the ball and the reasonable answer. I have long looked foward to a leader that could articulate, and champion, the common persons position, someone who could deflect the flame of the ultra-weathy-managed mainstream media.
That would require the use of the still somewhat free internet. Unfortunately, at some point, any candidate is going to have to dive into the daylight to campaign. Howard Dean tried the internet approach, but as soon as he daylighted himself, he was shot down by mainstream media. I think MSM did it just to show him how easily it could be done.
One shot about his “Scream” and it didn’t make any difference about his platform, he was done. Most would say that he was taken out unfairly. We need somebody that can anticipate that “Shot” by MSM and deflect it.
But, just as you refuse to come away from your anonymous position, many others are afaid to place themselves in the flame for what is right. That is my greatest fear, that we live in a nation of fearful people that won’t face up to what is right. How can we win anything while hiding.
March 14, 2012 at 10:18 am
tra
Joe, I didn’t say I thought you were crazy, my point is that, at least to me, you come off as very angry and in my opinion that anger and vitriol often seems to be misdirected. This is simply an observation of the tone of many of your comments on the local blogs, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who has noticed.
My 5:27 comment wasn’t very polite, but then again most of your comments on these blog threads aren’t either. Seems like it’s the same old story of a person who loves to dish it out, but can’t take it.
But to be clear, by suggesting that you might benefit from therapy, I didn’t mean to apply that you’re stark raving mad or anything. I have benefited from therapy myself in the past, and I think many people could benefit from therapy. In your case, you come across as very angry at times, even seething with rage.
Since the only way I encounter you is on these blog threads, I don’t know how you express yourself in “real life,” but if it’s anything like the way you (usually) express yourself on these comment threads, then yes, you might benefit from therapy.
March 14, 2012 at 10:28 am
tra
And Joe, I agree that you aren’t the issue, except to the extent that cynicism and lack of civility and lack of respect for one another’s opinions are a problem. By the way, I don’t claim to be perfect in this regard, either.
When you actually take the time to calmly articulate your position, such as in your 8:52 comment to Ernie, I often agree with you, at least in part. For example:
Is our electoral system deeply flawed, and systematically corrupted by those who pay for it? Yes, I fully agree.
Is our best chance to find candidates who won’t “selll out” at the local level? Yes, I fully agree.
In fact, probably most people agree with those things. So, great, if you have someone in mind who you think should run for office who meets your criteria, then encourage them to run. This is not an original idea, it happens all the time. People get together, either informally, or as part of a group, and encourage people who have shown leadership to run for local office, and some of them do run.
In some cases, those recruiting the candidates have selfish motives, in that they think the person they’re choosing wll favor them or people like them in some way, or can be influenced by campaign contributions and lobbying to do so. But, at least at the local level, that is not always the case.
O.K., time for a little thought experiment, let’s say you succeed in getting a good person to run for political office. Now along comes some internet commenter calling himself “Joe Schmoe,” to loudly and angrily declare that there’s no point to voting because ALL politicians are corrupt, the whole thing is an auction, and to participate at all makes you part of the problem. Schmoe angrily denounces anyone who even considers voting for anyone, including the candidate you helped to recruit, and who you believe to be honest and a good leader.
In those circumstances, don’t you think you might feel that Schmoe is oversimplifying, overgeneralizing, that his cynicism is counterproductive to any chances to improve the situation and that he’s misdirecting his anger?
March 14, 2012 at 11:00 am
Joe Blow
Ernie,
First, I’m not hiding, or at least I don’t think I am. What I proposed to you, a “plan,” as you asked, stands on its own merits or it does not. Are you saying that the proposed solution I offered actually merits consideration or rejection because of who I am?
It might interest you to know that my life’s experience has taken me to a place where I don’t need the likes of a tra or a Hank Sims banging on my front door in the middle of the night. Maybe when I find someone worthy of that sacrifice, I might. But after a lifetime of looking, in my case, time is about run out. I realize it is difficult for most people to connect the dots to arrive at a conclusion or solution let alone communicate. Couple that reality with inbred beliefs and ideologies and the ability to communicate and unify becomes almost nil.
Without actually knowing who I am I can grant you the right to say this, your statement: “But, just as you refuse to come away from your anonymous position, many others are afaid to place themselves in the flame for what is right. That is my greatest fear, that we live in a nation of fearful people that won’t face up to what is right. How can we win anything while hiding. But, just as you refuse to come away from your anonymous position, many others are afaid to place themselves in the flame for what is right. That is my greatest fear, that we live in a nation of fearful people that won’t face up to what is right. How can we win anything while hiding. ”
“[A]fraid to place themselves in the flame for what is right.” and “How can we win anything while hiding.” Perhaps under the circumstance that statement is justified. As a man that has put himself in and stood the test “in the flame for what is right” for a lifetime, be assured I make no excuses nor take a back seat to anyone. My life speaks for itself. You could say that in many ways I am the father of the Occupy Movement; not as it is, but as it will become. Don’t get the wrong idea here. I do not have anything to do with any of their actual movements. You, like them Ernie, don’t need a leader to tell you what to do, you already know what to do.
You say, “I have long looked foward to a leader that could articulate, and champion, the common persons position, someone who could deflect the flame of the ultra-weathy-managed mainstream media.” My question is to you is, what makes you think or believe this is the kind or type of a “leader” WE need or want? This is obviously someone YOU want. You cannot find such a person because they are non-existent. The common persons need to articulate and champion their own position, then they’ll find their leader.
March 14, 2012 at 11:16 am
Mitch
Joe Blow,
Thanks for the comment at 11:00 AM. I’d be curious to hear your response to tra just before.
You say to ask questions. OK. Do you think it would make any difference to your future if Barack Obama wins a second term or if the President becomes Mitt Romney? Do you think it influences the likelihood of war one way or the other? What about the likelihood of further growth in income inequality? What about the likelihood of overturning Roe v Wade?
These questions are the ones people ponder when they decide whether to vote or not. I suspect I know your answers, but I’m asking you so I don’t have to wonder.
March 14, 2012 at 11:43 am
tra
“…I don’t need the likes of a tra…banging on my front door in the middle of the night.”
Well if this helps set your mind at ease, the only time I’ve ever banged on someone’s door in the middle of the night is when their house was on fire. And I’m not speaking metaphorically, the house was actually on fire.
Anyway, the feeling is mutual. Given the level of vitriol you often direct at people, sometimes just for advocating that people exercise their right to vote, I’m not crazy about the idea of folks like yourself knowing my identity and where I work and live.
March 14, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Bolithio
While that is obviously true, “words” do possess explicit meaning.
Yes, no doubt. Yet in the English language, the rules are often bent and broken. There are many definitions of words and meaning is often confounded by that fact. I have been learning that is it is very difficult to have a discussion on the internet about forestry, as arm chair foresters appear to have their own definitions for the words I use.
Its all good. We all need exercise of our critical thinking. But at what point are we responsible for the tone of our internet discourse. When should we stop, or at least try to prevent the mean statements to one another?
If we cant do that with either other here, how the fuck can we ever expect things in our country to improve for anyone?
March 14, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Joe Blow
Bolithio, if you’ve been reading my comments on this thread you would know that what you’re talking about, perceived “mean statements” (applying your rule equally), are merely the symptoms of why there isn’t any expectation of improvement. I’d like to point out here, that if you ever read the four gospels in the Bible’s New Testament you quickly realize that what you and tra are saying here are the same things the so-called elitist were constantly try to put on Jesus Christ. They did not like his “tone” either. Those CHP officers didn’t like Felix Omai’s tone either, so I suppose it is her fault she got brutalized?
March 14, 2012 at 2:33 pm
suzy blah blah
-that’s their M.O., Joe. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message. Saying things like, “your cynicism and lack of civility and lack of respect for one another’s opinions are a problem”. Or that you are, “oversimplifying, overgeneralizing”, that your “viotrol is counterproductive”. And that, “you come off as very very angry and in my opinion that anger and vitriol often seems to be misdirected”. Or call your posts, “furious impotent little tantrums”. And on and on, i could keep showing numerous more examples right in this thread of their hypocritical garbage talk (oh oh, now they will jump on that and call it vitriol and that i need therapy etc etc That’s the only
way they know how to “listen” to my points) forever …
They’ve done it to suzy many a time. If the concern that i bring forth is not one they agree with, then, even though they are obviously in the wrong, as i have clearly pointed out innumerable times, often with undeniable proof, then, rather than admitting it, they, then, resort to dissing me for my style of presentation, usually with cliche one-liners, and often by calling what i say vitriol (their favorite word), and then adding that i need “help” etc. That way they don’t have to deal in any depth with the content of my presentation, which would mean facing their own demons! Sooooooo, you see, their method makes it easy for them avoid our points so they can go on their merry way keeping the blinders on and keeping up the inner bluff (to themselves and their ilk) of being morally superior. Mitch “knows what you’re thinking”. Yeah right. In tra’s case it’s because he’s “been to therapy”, LOL! In Eric’s case, his way is the “American Way”, ROFL …
Although, clearly, I’m sure that it’s clear to you, as it’s clear to suzy and it’s clear to any clear sighted person who reads the blog, that they are simply projecting their own blurry dysfunctional applications onto the “other”, whether it be me or you or Stephen or some current political target, in order to, hide under the cover of polite discourse, and moral superiority, and continue to spew their beliefs, “my way or the highway”, etc. while avoiding any countering viewpoint. Then, as though their stance of being your better has not already been made, in excess of redundancy, some idiot will try and step it up by claiming that you are, “afraid to place yourself in the flame for what is right” LOL!
Under the surface of their pretentious passes at civility and their polite mannerly discourse, they are vicious dogs who attack anything that’s not in step with their narrow clannish philosophy. Like you aptly put it, “elitists”, and “wolves in sheep’s clothing”.
thnx for the input Joe.
March 14, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Joe Blow
Mitch, If you want me address tra or anything he says then I suggest you get him to stop making unfounded or unsubstantiated lying false accusations. This is as filthy and scummy a lying accusation as anyone can make. “I’m not crazy about the idea of folks like yourself knowing my identity and where I work and live.” People that behave like this are the very ones that drive or justify what those CHP did to Felix Omai. They identify themselves. The problem most people have is accepting that truth and dealing with these people accordingly.
His opinions are proven to be as worthless as he is. As you should know, I have little tolerance for worthless opinions. When he can practice what he preaches, we’ll see.
There’s a reason I laid out for asking questions and the one you gave totally misses the point of that reason.
March 14, 2012 at 3:13 pm
tra
Joe, why is it O.K. for you to say “I don’t need the likes of a tra or a Hank Sims banging on my front door in the middle of the night,” yet when I respond that “I’m not crazy about the idea of folks like yourself knowing my identity and where I work and live,” you explode in outrage, claiming that “this is as filthy and scummy a lying accusation as anyone can make.” Seems like another example of “can-dish-it-out-but-can’t-take-it” syndrome.
The fact that you have (over)reacted with such outrage, declaring me to be “worthless” (something I’ve certainly never said about you) only reinforces that I’d rather not have you know my identity or location.
Apparently you are unable to perceive the way your own seething hostility may have an effect on the way people react to your comments, despite the fact that you’re quite sensitive to any less-than-polite comments directed your way.
March 14, 2012 at 3:13 pm
tra
Joe, if you are able to put the personal animosity aside and get back to the substantive issues, I am sincerely interested in your response to this part of my earlier comment:
“O.K., time for a little thought experiment, let’s say you succeed in getting a good person to run for political office. Now along comes some internet commenter calling himself “Joe Schmoe,” to loudly and angrily declare that there’s no point to voting because ALL politicians are corrupt, the whole thing is an auction, and to participate at all makes you part of the problem. Schmoe angrily denounces anyone who even considers voting for anyone, including the candidate you helped to recruit, and who you believe to be honest and a good leader.
In those circumstances, don’t you think you might feel that Schmoe is oversimplifying, overgeneralizing, that his cynicism is counterproductive to any chances to improve the situation and that he’s misdirecting his anger?
March 14, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Bolithio
“…so I suppose it is her fault she got brutalized?”
Joe, from what Ive read by you (not necessarily in this thread), you would say it is her fault for letting them do it. But again, its hard enough to understand people in person, let alone online.
March 14, 2012 at 4:54 pm
tra
And now suzy chimes in witih her own angry, grudge-nursing screed, culminating in calling other commenters “vicious dogs.”
But I guess pointing that out makes me a “vicious dog,” too.
March 14, 2012 at 5:29 pm
suzy blah blah
-tra, how can suzy make those yellow smiley faces? those R really really kewl !!!!
March 14, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Anonymous
Another great event for Estelle this evening. I’d say 175 to 225 attendees including virtually all the Fortuna business community and suprisingly few of the HumCPR crowd or SoHumers. Though to be fair there were certainly ten or so of each. Elected officials and a range of regular Fortuna folks. No idea how much she raised but it has to be in the $12,000 to $15,000 range.
March 14, 2012 at 8:45 pm
JIAD
I hope all the candidates have the good fortune to be in a relationship with a trained public relations person and have many friends who have the time and willingness to sit on blogs and churn out the press.
March 14, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Ernie's place
Tra
I’ve banged on TWO doors because their buildings were on fire. Once in Hale’s Grove by Leggett when I was 6 years old, and once when I was 35 the Richardson Grove Lodge was on fire. Both buildings were saved and I was thanked profusely.
I have knocked on doors during political campaigns. I won’t make phone calls because I prefer to meet people face to face. Most people are very polite and personable, and most are very interested in what is said. Some aren’t interested and we move on immediately… No hassle. It seems like the more disconnected, the more mean people can be. The most timid person can sound like a lion on a anonymous blog comment.
Mitch said: “Do you think it would make any difference to your future if Barack Obama wins a second term or if the President becomes Mitt Romney?”
Mitch, If I may be so bold as to take your comment out of context, then put words in everybody’s mouth here, without their permission, that is exactly the point that Joe and I would agree on. Hell no, it wouldn’t make any difference! That is the very problem, it is the old Tweedle Dee Tweedle Dum scenario. What Joe, and I, and the occupy movement would like to change, is the way, and the reason, that people get elected. We want a candidate that would not be afraid to represent the populace.
And… Just so Bolithio doesn’t get too discouraged, I agree with most of the things that he says. What better product for Humboldt County that lumber? It grows on water dirt and sunshine. It can be selectively cut to not harm the critters and the environment. (Bolitio may disagree with me on the selective cut, but what the hell I’ve been here longer than he has, and if everybody has to play by the same rules it all works out. I know that clear cuts maximize the timber yield) Plus, you can make buildings out of the product, and sequester CO2. It would seem that any true environmentalist should be screaming for logging. Why the hell aren’t they. Can I can them “idiots” without pissing somebody off?
March 14, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Ernie's place
I need to oil my typo-machine…
March 14, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Mitch
Ernie,
(Real questions, because I’m curious how strongly you believe it wouldn’t make any difference.)
Do you think Kerry would have taken us into Iraq after 9/11? Do you think that has made any difference in your life?
Do you think it makes any difference that John Roberts and Clarence Thomas (W. appointees) are on the Supreme Court, as opposed to people Kerry might have appointed?
March 14, 2012 at 10:00 pm
tra
“Do you think Kerry would have taken us into Iraq after 9/11?”
More importantly, would Gore and Lieberman have taken us into Iraq after 9/11. And I hate to say it, but my answer has to be: Quite possibly.
By the time Kerry was a candidate in 2004, the Iraq war was well underway, and the ensuing occupation had already become such a godawful mess, that public opinion had already swung way over to where a considerable majority recognized that the war had been a mistake, and the argument for most people was about how soon and under what conditions, we could get the hell out of there.
March 14, 2012 at 10:13 pm
tra
“Do you think it makes any difference that John Roberts and Clarence Thomas (W. appointees) are on the Supreme Court, as opposed to people Kerry might have appointed?”
Clarence Thomas was actually appointed by Bush Sr., way back in about 1990, or it might have been 1991.
John Roberts was appointed during Bush’s second term, as was Samuel Alito. And yes, it seems likely that that Kerry’s picks would have been more to my liking, though how much more I’m not sure. Would a Supreme Court with two Kerry picks instead of Roberts and Alito have ruled differently on, say, Citizens United? It’s certainly possible.
March 14, 2012 at 10:27 pm
tra
“-tra, how can suzy make those yellow smiley faces? those R really really kewl !!!!”
Sorry suzy, it’s a closely guarded secret of the Amalgamated Order of Worthless Filthy Lying Scum and Superficially Pretentious Vicious Dogs.
March 15, 2012 at 7:41 am
Mitch
tra,
Kerry, Gore, whatever.
<–AOWFLSSPCVD-approved
Bush, W., whatever.
Blushing, but thanks, tra.
March 15, 2012 at 7:48 am
Mitch
I wonder if my blanking out the Gore/Lieberman campaign has a similar cause to the GOP’s amnesia about the last GOP President. I still don’t understand why the decider isn’t out on the campaign trail, helping his compatriots. Or why he isn’t defending his ex-boss, who is apparently afraid to travel to Canada, being an international war criminal and all.
March 15, 2012 at 8:26 am
Bolithio
Bolitio may disagree with me on the selective cut
*sigh* How did I get this reputation!?!?!?
Ernie, and others who care,
I have never said anything against selection, or stated that clearcutting is superior to selection, or even promoted clearcuts.
I have justified their use, but not in the context above. 99% of the jobs I do and have done have been selective. I do believe in the application of clear cuts for various reasons, and no, the reasons are not greed!
March 15, 2012 at 8:27 am
Ernie's place
“Do you think Kerry would have taken us into Iraq after 9/11?”
I think that Kerry is a pompous egotistical ass, with poor judgment, and foggy vision, on a par with John Edwards.
A good example of what you think that you are voting for and what you get, is what you got with Obama. Is Guantanamo Bay closed yet? How long did it take to get out of Iraq? Is Detroit working again? When Obama is finally out of office, I think that we will all find out what a remarkably “puppet” president he was. Talk about say anything to get elected.
To be fair, I have say that I have very little love of the past Republican Presidents, but at least Little Bush was an honest man, he knew and believed in his agenda. I think Obama betrayed us in that we thought that he was going to bring us jobs, and deal with the unfair balance of trade with other countries. I wonder which room of the White House the Captains of Industry pulled him into to explain to him where the bear shits in the woods?
Why can’t anybody see that the Democrat / Republican game, Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum, is a diversion that keeps our eyes off the real issue of how to elect somebody that will represent US?
March 15, 2012 at 8:29 am
Bolithio
Back on topic,
The huge Estelle billboard I have to look at now as I drive into Fortuna. For some reason, all I can think of is what she would look like dressed up like a leprechaun. Happy St. Patty’s day Estelle – lol
March 15, 2012 at 8:30 am
Joe Blow
Suzy blah blah,
I’ve waited a longtime for someone to do that!
Thank you.
March 15, 2012 at 8:30 am
Ernie's place
Fear not Bolitio, If I knew who you were I would write your name in for President.
March 15, 2012 at 8:32 am
Joe Blow
In regard to the following comment by “Bolithio”: Typical cherry-picking misrepresentation. The complete statement was: “Those CHP officers didn’t like Felix Omai’s tone either, so I suppose it is her fault she got brutalized?” Either way you want to look at it, you get the same results, blaming the victim. Your question is disingenuous and you know it. Of course there is the principle rule to consider of “[D]o not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.” Since Bolithio asked the question, he is free draw his own conclusions.
March 15, 2012 at 8:40 am
Joe Blow
Now to Ernie,
You asked for a plan. Against my better judgment, I gave you one. Your follow-up comment did NOT address what I offered as the first fundamental problem in The Plan. So, now what?
March 15, 2012 at 8:46 am
Bolithio
I really didnt intend on being disingenuous when I proposed the question, but after further thought, I agree that it is. Oh well. It must be an instinctual behavior for my brain to create a reality in which I have “free draw”. No surprise really. Thank the stars I’m able to recognize that.
I think “Wolves in Wolves Clothing” is more apt.
March 15, 2012 at 8:50 am
Mitch
Ernie,
Thanks for your reply.
Here’s my opinion. Anyone who gets into office, especially high office, is incredibly constrained in what they can do. Priority number one is feeding the banks. Priority number two is feeding the military-industrial-oil complex.
I view these things as a given. There are other groups that must be consistently appeased or your term is pretty much done for.
Given those constraints, I’m damned glad we got Obama and not the alternative. After 9/11, I was praying (or whatever I do instead) that the United States would treat the event as a criminal action and try to get bin Laden without punishing entire countries. That didn’t happen until Obama — Cheney treated the entire thing as an excuse to protect our oil interests.
Do I like the choices we face? No. Do I expect an elected President to keep all their promises? No, not one with half a brain. Do I expect anyone who speaks with complete honesty during the campaign to have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting within miles of the Oval Office? No. I want someone who can get themselves elected and then push to the side of the envelope that I prefer. That’s all, and that’s A LOT.
Would it be better to have a different system? Yes. Obviously. Unquestionably. Show me a way to get from here to there without violence and a probable civil war.
The last, best try was Nader — a good man who’s devoted his life to making things better. After the press was through with him, he couldn’t even get enough of the vote to get election funds for future green party candidates.
March 15, 2012 at 8:56 am
Joe Blow
You could always ask a question, you know. But, then that would require you to do something that you are unable to do. Which is the fundamental reason why you are constantly unable to understand what other people are say and so quick to judge their motives and intentions – putting words in their mouths while always enforcing that right to blame them for what you do. Surprising what a tying error will expose, isn’t it?
Comment directed to Bolithio.
March 15, 2012 at 9:29 am
Bolithio
Oh please. Thanks allot Joe. You could profit from your own advice I reckon. But, then that would require you to do something that you are unable to do.
March 15, 2012 at 11:44 am
Ernie's Place
Joe,
I acknowledged your reasonable answer.
Joe said: “Starting with the local elections seems right. Next it is necessary to define what kind of people who possess the necessary characteristics required to “represent us.” One “characteristic” would be, a proven leader, not a follower. Once identified, WE (“us”) would need to FIRST approach this individual and personally request their participation and their representation. None of this business of someone, first, deciding they want to be elected and then asks everyone (begs) for their vote as happens now.”
I agree with your premise, but as it is, we are trying to play baseball on a basketball court. The ultra-wealthy and the stock market invertors own the playing field, and the political arena, that needs to be changed first. We need a political arena that ALL the people of America can play in. As it is, we don’t stand a chance.
You are right about the Occupy Movement, it may be our best chance. (thank-you for fathering it, I didn’t know that.) Any movement that will solve our playing field problem will have to come from the very grasssiest of the grass-roots, unfortunately that will include some dirt, if you look around you will notice that.
At some point you will either see a plan develop, or a new grass-roots movement started. It may be that the more clever of the occupy movement will spin of and become a more sanitized and cohesive group with a plan. Cross you fingers.
By the way Joe, I don’t think that you are crazy, you are among some of the most interesting people that I know. You are right though, I don’t believe in the power of prayer. Not one bit. It’s way too arbitrary to be real. But, we might be closer than you think in politics, and that is as real as it gets.
March 15, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Joe Blow
There were some questions ask earlier and this post by Glenn Greenwald, in particular his response to Mother Jones’s Kevin Drum, it seems to me, answers them quite nicely. It should also explain a little of why I say what I do on these blogs constantly pimping the corrupt and the criminal.
March 15, 2012 at 12:33 pm
Ernie's Place
Joe
Just so you don‘t think that I haven‘t been paying attention. The phrase, “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” is from the bible. (Matthew 7:6).
It is also the root of the expression, “Pearls Of Wisdom”
Unfortunately I’ve always been suspicious of mans words put in a Holy envelope, I give them no more credence than a mans words by themselves. The other thing that surprises me about you is, we were BOTH born and raised in a canyon where a man’s word was his bond and his name was his honor. What happened to that?
You ask be to judged your by “your lifetime”:
“As a man that has put himself in and stood the test “in the flame for what is right” for a lifetime, be assured I make no excuses nor take a back seat to anyone. My life speaks for itself. You could say that in many ways I am the father of the Occupy Movement; not as it is, but as it will become. Don’t get the wrong idea here. I do not have anything to do with any of their actual movements. You, like them Ernie, don’t need a leader to tell you what to do, you already know what to do.”
Please don’t ask me to judge you by “Your lifetime” when you don’t give me the honor of knowing who you are. I like what you say and stand for, but I have to admit that I give your opinion way less credence, when you don’t put your name and that lifetime to it. Joe, I’m really not asking you for your name, you have good reasons for not using it. I just want you to understand that words without skin-equity mean very little in the real world.
We might have been raised in the same church, but you drank the coolaid, I didn’t.
“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; therefore, be shrewd as serpents, and innocent as doves.” (Matthew 10:16).
March 15, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Eric Kirk
Serpents aren’t very shrewd. They pretty much react on impulse.
March 15, 2012 at 1:54 pm
Joe Blow
At this point in our conversation, Ernie, let me tell you why you never, or mostly never, got what you consider “reasonable answer[s]” before. You and I had to establish what I call a “hand-shake basis” for common interaction. In other words you had to meet in or at the middle and respond with mutual decency. I began that process when I decided it could be to our mutual benefit or common interests.
You said you “acknowledge my reasonable answer.” That’s nice, but that is not what you asked for. You asked for a “plan.” And I quote: “We probably agree that we need to figure out how to start electing people that represent us. That is going to be a steep hill to climb and we will need a good plan. We all know what is wrong. The hollering is over. We need to develop a plan.” So, I offered you a “plan.” However in your response you dismissed the merits of my plan, right off rejecting the need “to start with local elections,” and moved on to say: “But, just as you refuse to come away from your anonymous position, many others are afaid to place themselves in the flame for what is right. That is my greatest fear, that we live in a nation of fearful people that won’t face up to what is right. How can we win anything while hiding.” Here you rather pointedly infer that I “won’t face up to what is right” by fearfully remaining anonymous – a rather judgmental accusation. Regardless, such statements help understand the thinking. I guess until I walk up and personally introduce myself, the reality of, or even the feasibility of my “Plan” gets sidelined as irrelevant.
Notice what I said to Bolothio that, unbeknown to either you or him, is the first step necessary, that no one seems willing or able to do to reach common ground. I said, “You can NEVER understand anything the other person says until you can accept that person and recognize their legitimate right to exist as an coequal person to you. Only then can you coexist and communicate. Even with “other anonymous identities.” This, currently, is the fundamental problem of the Occupy Movement.” I believe you and I have made considerable gains in this regard – defining the “us.”
So, let’s now consider your quote of my “Plan.” You left off half of it! Here’s that first half: “From my vantage point, you set forth the fundamental criteria for a plan. Assuming there are such people, which is dubious, but possible, we would need to first define, and identify the “us.” For instance, you and I, with apparent different political and religious beliefs, share the same common interests and needs as a large number of our neighbors (I’m assuming). Right now no one is really articulating these unifying common interests. Except, perhaps, the vilified Occupy Movement. But they lack the common goal necessary for success.” You figure out what that “common goal” is yet?
While you may not know who I am, you certainly know who I am by what I write as I endeavor to be consistent with my life’s experiences. By the way, a “pearl” as spoken of by Jesus can be a word or it can be a person – all in how you look at it. So, when I chose to remain anonymous, you now know why.
March 15, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Joe Blow
Now to your following reply, Ernie says: “Please don’t ask me to judge you by “Your lifetime” when you don’t give me the honor of knowing who you are.” I realize this is difficult to understand much more than accept. You do NOT judge me nor am I asking you to do so. I am judged by WHAT I AM and that is clearly defined by my lifetime. That value is respected and honored by what you say and do and how and why you say and do it. I quote the words of Jesus Christ on occasion to people who may or may not have any religion or religious background. Not because Jesus Christ is God. Or that people put special value on his words because they believe he is so. But because what he says is valuable in and of its time-worn self. My “lifetime” as defined by my words is as valuable as my life, not because I may be the re-incarnated Jesus Christ, but because they are what they are proven to be. Before everyone gets all excited here, I did not say I was Jesus Christ nor do I believe Jesus Christ is God. Okay?
The test of anonymity is to accept and recognize, while at the same time not necessarily agreeing, the coequal value of the other individual when not looking them eye to eye. Only then can you hear what they say. Whether you understand what they say after do diligent consideration depends upon you. If you read or have read the Four Gospels you will quickly learn that NONE of those people understood what Jesus Christ said. Some of his followers never ever fully understood him or his way of thinking. So how millions of people that have never seen Jesus eye to eye believe they have the measure of his words, is beyond me.
Now to this: “The other thing that surprises me about you is, we were BOTH born and raised in a canyon where a man’s word was his bond and his name was his honor. What happened to that?” For you and me, Ernie, I don’t think anything has happened to it. Honor and a personal bond are two things very few people understand today. Of course, when you say things like this, “We might have been raised in the same church, but you drank the coolaid, I didn’t.” I really have to wonder. Assumptions tend to confuse the issue.
March 15, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Ernie's Place
Eric Kirk:
“Serpents aren’t very shrewd. They pretty much react on impulse.”
I don’t know, snakes have been around for 150 million years. They must know something. They dodged the Meteorite that killed the Dinosaurs. see BIG snakes.
March 15, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Ernie's Place
Link to big snakes = Snakes
March 15, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Bolithio
Thanks for the interesting, weird, conversation.
You can NEVER understand anything the other person says until you can accept that person and recognize their legitimate right to exist as an coequal person to you. Only then can you coexist and communicate. Even with “other anonymous identities.
This is an interesting statement. Do you live by your own wisdom Joe? If you do, thanks for accepting me. I accept you too. If you want to have an easier time coexisting with me and others, consider your arrogance. I can learn from someone without seeing their eyes. And your right, words do have explicit meaning. Also, in our language, the combination of words, emphasis, and structure of our ideas say allot about our intent. You, and many many bloggers fail to see this, and will continue to struggle with communication and relationships. Me too, but Im trying. I hope you are too. Its hard!
March 15, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Eric Kirk
Ernie – 13 meters! I mean, that’s what, 50 feet? Several cars. Geeze.
What the record for python?
Well, I checked, and actually there was an anaconda at 11.5 meters. Pretty close. Python records are about 10.
http://www.thewildclassroom.com/biodiversity/snakes/main/giantsnakes.html
March 15, 2012 at 5:30 pm
tra
I do see quite a few commenters who, the great majority of the time, do try to hear each other and try to actually address one another’s points and for the most part keep the conversation pretty civil even when strongly disagreeing, though they may get frustrated and lose their temper once in a while when someone else posts a comment that is particularly offensive to them, or for whatever reason. And I count myself among this group, both the part about usually trying to make it work, and the part about sometimes failing to.
But I also see a few commenters who 99% of the time contribute nothing but negativity and personal attacks, and for whom actually engaging in any kind of real conversation is very rare. Some of these people seem to be just angry at the world, and this forum is just one more way to vent their rage Others specialize in holding grudges and blogstalking those they don’t like, searching for anything they can be disagreeable about with those they’re nursing seething grudges toward.
But even the ragers and seethers sometimes turn out to have coherent ideas, when they take the time to state their beliefs plainly, rather than coated in and obscured by a lot of vitriol. Still not very good listeners or conversation partners, usually. Well, once in a while a seether will sidle up and make conversation if you happen to be disagreeing with one of the commenters that the seether is nursing a grudge against. I guess they must be operating under the old “enemy of my enemy is my friend” concept.
I generally try to leave the ragers and seethers to their own devices, but from time to time I make the mistake of trying to engage with one, either on a civil level, or sometimes (and this is always a mistake) responding to their negativity or disrespect by taking the same attitude towards them. Sadly, if I try to engage in a civil way with one of these folks, it rarely leads to any useful or interesting discussion. On the other hand, if I respond to their negativity or disrespect with negativeity or disrespect of my own, the chances of that leading anywhere worth going are pretty much nil, in part because most ragers and seethers seem to be firmly in the category of can-dish-it-out-but-definitely-can’t-take-it. So as far as the hard-core ragers and seethers go, it seems like, at least for me, it the choices are to just ignore them, or try to engage them civilly — but be ready to accept the fact that I’ll probably just get abused for trying to do so, and that the chances of it leading anywhere are pretty low.
Thankfully the hard-core ragers and seethers are usually at most only 10% or so of the commenters on the couple of blogs I visit. But if you remember when the Time-Standard’s comment threads were run by Topix, it was a flaming, seething, 24/7 ragefest over there.
March 16, 2012 at 8:42 am
Joe Blow
So, what happened to Ernie? You make your point? You run out of insults?
March 16, 2012 at 10:08 am
Ernie's Place
Joe
I just wanted to give you the last word, plus you didn’t ask me any more questions. And… I’m still cogitating on the wisdom of TRA’s last comment.
I try not to “insult”,just because I don’t believe in a provable diety some people find that insulting. I find it insulting that people can’t acept my belifes as I accept theirs. That’s what makes the world go ’round.
I enjoyed our fairly civil conversation though, thanks.
March 16, 2012 at 11:39 am
Joe Blow
Last word on WHAT, Branscomb? You engaged ME in mutual conversation. In the process you asked me to give you a plan. Since you asked me, I did and now you offhandedly dismiss me and it as my “last word.” What you’ve done here is simply and rudely turn your back on me and walk away when I’m in mid sentence talking to you. You talk about honesty and honor and then you do this? Your whole conversation was a setup, a ruse and a scam to denigrate me for not telling you who I am. Anyone reading or following our conversation knows exactly what you are doing. I wondered how long it would be BEFORE you couldn’t help yourself anymore and continue to engage and accept me in actual conversation. Thank you for identifying your true intent and motivation. Just because I talked to you and answered your, what proved to be your disingenuous, but “civil conversation” did not mean that I wanted something from you, like get you to BELIEVE ME or “my beliefs.” Who the hell are you that I should just roll over and “accept your beliefs” anyway? It is that elitist attitude that defines you, Ernie. It is really all about “PROVABLE DIETY” and you certainly are NO god to me and never were. The fact is, you did drink the cool-aid and got drunk on it.
That Plan I offered Branscomb is nothing new. In its present form its been around for 60 years or so. For someone that presents himself as an authority on indigenous peoples, I would have thought that plan would resonate. Since it didn’t, let me state for the record that if this American social experience survives its current cancerous sickness, it will be with and because of that Plan or some variation on its thesis. In the end the little gods, no matter how hard they try, won’t be able to do a damned thing about it either.
You say, battling over someone’s so-called beliefs is “what makes the world go ’round.” I’ve got news for you, that is what allows guys like those CHP to justify brutalizing a 50 year old woman – that arrogant, elitist, self-righteous attitude expecting others to submit to paranoid dreams and fantasies, what you call “beliefs,” is what makes and is the root cause of WAR.
We go back a lifetime, Branscomb. I seems only fitting that matters of our lives manifest and conclude as they do. And that, my worthless friend who would be a god, is my last word.
March 16, 2012 at 11:53 am
tra
I rest my case.
March 16, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Ernie's Place
I agreed with most of what you said Joe, But, I confess It’s hard to glean a clear vison of your manifesto. I tried to back out quietly. Apparently that’s imposible.
Joe. Don’t give up on what you believe in. In spite of what you may think, I was not baiting, nor mocking you. We have some things in common.
March 17, 2012 at 1:47 pm
suzy blah blah
,,, a canyon where a man’s word was his bond and his name was his honor. What happened to that?
-it was like that for a long long time, but it changed in the 1800s when your relatives came here and lied to the natives, committed genocide on.them, and took over the land.
March 17, 2012 at 2:05 pm
Not A Native
Good one Suzy, don’t ever let go unanswered the lying rewriting of history that the local land thieves keep passing off.
Especially the dumb ones who invent new myths like “Little Bush was an honest man, he knew and believed in his agenda” Though thats too ignorant to even merit rebuttal.
BTW, Here’s a very informative op-ed that cites empirical evidence that low intellectual achievement and resource extraction economies are mutually reinforcing. Though it cites correlation on a national scale, I’d say it scales very well to smaller places, like HumCo.
March 18, 2012 at 1:17 pm
moviedad
Every person of European descent should be required to take a Native American Studies class.
March 18, 2012 at 1:25 pm
moviedad
Ok! I’ve signed up; again. Where’s “Jazminn” the Wizard?….oh, there he is…I love that guy!
March 25, 2012 at 6:26 am
reggae war refuge - lol
Estelle -SAME SHOW NEW NAME- Fennel? No vote from this side of the (orange) fence.