Carl Sagan and others, referencing the difference between human intelligence and that of other species.
I know I’ve posted a lot of videos lately, but this one is very remarkable.
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January 21, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Anonymous
…and there are those that question the need to save and protect endangered species.
Great video, thank you for posting it.
January 22, 2012 at 9:27 am
Erasmus
I don’t know of anyone who opposes the protection of great apes, and I know no one who is fighting for the preservation of bacterial species that are lethal to human beings. — There are kinds as well as degrees of intelligence. A recent book by Michael Corballis, ‘The Recursive Mind,’ outlines a type of thinking unknown to our gifted, nonhuman relatives.His earlier book, ‘The Lopsided Ape,’ also deals with the fallacy of “degree, not kind:” approach to intelligence.
January 23, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Not A Native
If ‘intelligence’(however you choose to measure it) was the differentiator between the things we eat and the things we nuture, human meat would be a goodly part of out diet, with a glut in HumCo.
BTW Erasmus, you acquaintances are severely limited because the largest cause for Gorilla population declines is people hunting them for food, not habitat encroachment.
January 24, 2012 at 9:59 am
gpf
…If ‘intelligence’(however you choose to measure it) was the differentiator between the things we eat and the things we nuture…
NAN,I nurture cows and chickens. As I kindly care for them and watch them grow, a relationship evolves between us (this happens with vegetables too).Then I eat them. The less separated I am from my home, family and food and water, the better I feel. I see many kinds of intelligence, and then degrees. My dog…
January 25, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Not A Native
gpf, you’re a damnable weasel worder, and a not very clever one.
Tending animals with the intention of killing and eating them when they are young isn’t nuturing, its utilitarian exploitation. Do you similarly ‘kindly care’ for your children and parents? Thought not.
January 26, 2012 at 8:53 am
gpf
gpf, you’re a damnable weasel worder.
Thanks, NAN, it is nice to be distinguished! I believe that how well one treats their animals is how well one treats their kids.
My children are safe. Cultural taboos keep things firmly in place. Thanks again!
January 27, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Not A Native
gpf Its pure nonsense to even suggest that ‘treating your animals well’ means cutting their lives way short and eating them.
You’re ‘distinguished’ only in the way of an upraised middle finger, because that’s how you’re really treating those animals.
And if ‘cultural taboos’ are what prevents you from killing and eating children, you’re a very sick person indeed.
January 28, 2012 at 9:46 am
gpf
NAN, are you opposed to all domesticated animals? They were selectively bred for thousands of years to give them the usefulness they have now.(utilitarian exploitation).
It seems to me we are culturally inseparable from our domesticated animals.
Healthy relationships with these animals and all people involves caring for the health and wellbeing of ALL, while they’re still alive. Right now.
Many animals and people will die of old age. Many animals will be eaten by people. My intention is to eat some animals. This is part of my heritage, and what the animals were bred for. I see no reason why this should change the good relationship we have while they’re alive.
NAN, what prevents you from killing and eating children?
January 29, 2012 at 5:17 pm
Not A Native
gpf, I really don’t know how to respond.
If your postings are satirical, they went over my head. And if they aren’t, I just can’t comprehend the humanity that they reflect. If you haven’t yet, please read Johnathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”.
January 30, 2012 at 9:44 am
gpf
NAN, you initiated the cannibalism topic. “If ‘intelligence’(however you choose to measure it) was the differentiator between the things we eat and the things we nuture, human meat would be a goodly part of out diet, with a glut in HumCo.”
And then you reply to my light-hearted comment: “And if ‘cultural taboos’ are what prevents you from killing and eating children, you’re a very sick person indeed.”
Now I’m curious. Apparently you think it is intelligence that prevents one from killing and eating children. And so I ask you,
NAN, what prevents you from killing and eating children?
No NAN, I have never read the complete text of Johnathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”. I did however just read some online excerpts. And I will never read this book, or watch snuff movies or excessively violent movies.
Johnathan Swift was obviously intelligent and logical. Jonathan Swift was a monster. The whole idea of eating people is repulsive to me. Mr. Swift was Intelligent, logical, but insane by my cultural standards.
January 30, 2012 at 12:52 pm
Erasmus
Apparently, the world contains a person who thinks Swift advocated the eating of children……. I didn’t think I’d live to see the day. (P.S. “A Modest Proposal” is satirical.)
January 30, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Eric Kirk
I thought they dealt with that in The Birdcage.
January 30, 2012 at 10:36 pm
tra
gpf said: “Jonathan Swift was a monster.”
No, he was a satirist, and a damned good one. But don’t feel too bad — according to Wikipedia, you’re not alone:
“Readers unacquainted with its reputation as a satirical work often do not immediately realize that Swift was not seriously proposing cannibalism and infanticide…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
January 30, 2012 at 10:41 pm
tra
From Wikipedia:
…Swift suggests that impoverished Irish might ease their economic troubles by selling their children as food for rich gentlemen and ladies.[2] This satirical hyperbole mocks heartless attitudes towards the poor, as well as Irish policy in general.
…This essay is widely held to be one of the greatest examples of sustained irony in the history of the English language. Much of its shock value derives from the fact that the first portion of the essay describes the plight of starving beggars in Ireland, so that the reader is unprepared for the surprise of Swift’s solution when he states, “A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragoust.”[1]
January 31, 2012 at 8:44 am
gpf
Thank you all. I guess I should have read wiki instead of excerpts from Swift’s book. History has shown that the inhabitants of the British Isles were treated horribly by the English, and I took what I read at face value. I’m relieved to discover that even in the intense racism and imperialism and attitudes of the times, Swift’s book was viewed as satire.
Erasmus, mocking doesn’t help.
January 31, 2012 at 9:01 am
gpf
NAN, I am not much for writing satire, so don’t go looking for it. And where exactly am I showing a lack of humanity?
NAN, what prevents you from killing and eating children? It is obviously not cultural taboos. You have suggested intelligence…is that why? Maybe it is your understanding of law? Please clue me in.
January 31, 2012 at 12:08 pm
tra
gpf,
In case you’re interested, here’s the full text of “A Modest Proposal.”
http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html
January 31, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Eric Kirk
Comprehension of satire does not always come naturally or easy. A few years ago I wrote about a formative experience in college where a young man was pilloried because most of his fellow students didn’t catch on to it.
http://kunsoo1024.wordpress.com/2006/08/22/party-lines-political-correctness-and-basic-decency/
February 1, 2012 at 10:55 am
Anonymous
Thanks tra,but I don’t have a lot of reading time and this satire about class and cannibalism, written in London almost 300 years ago, does not really have relevance to my life.
I recently read Barbara Kinsolver’s book, ‘Animal, Vegetable, Miracle’.
Relevant, timely, progressive.
February 1, 2012 at 4:38 pm
tra
That’s cool. Just thought I’d offer.