I’m not sure what that means exactly. More as I know it.
Addendum: To be clear, he has not resigned his presidency.
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February 5, 2011 at 10:15 am
ED Denson
Nor, it seems has he resigned anything else. From the BBC this morning:
“An earlier report from a private TV channel said President Mubarak had also given up his party post, but this was later retracted.”
February 5, 2011 at 11:05 am
Dave Kirby
It was his son,Gamal, who resigned along with the leader of the N.D.P. The opposition alliance is reported to have split as some factions are negotiating with the vice president as to a transition. Others are insisting Mubarack go first.
February 5, 2011 at 11:11 am
tra
Perhaps this was the source of the rumours?
Among those submitting their resignations from Egypt’s National Democratic Party were Gamal Mubarak, President Hosni Mubarak’s son, state television reported
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/category/world/egypt-world-latest-news/
February 5, 2011 at 11:23 am
tra
U.S. Envoy Frank Wisner, whose firm has long had Mubarek’s regime as a lucrative client, says Mubarek should not step down. Can’t say I’m surprised.
Hosni Mubarak must stay in power for the time being, says Frank Wisner, Barack Obama’s special envoy for Egypt. “We need to get a national consensus around the pre-conditions for the next step forward. The president must stay in office to steer those changes.”
Yeah, ‘cuz he’s done such a great job of “steering” the situation over the past couple of weeks.
February 5, 2011 at 11:27 am
tra
Here’s the link that is the source for the above quote. The quote is in the 8:07 pm update.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/02/04/live-blog-feb-5-egypt-protests
February 5, 2011 at 3:33 pm
tra
Gee, I wonder if this little factoid might in someway explain why folks in Egypt are fed up with the Mubarek regime…
From the CNN Twitter feed
http://twitter.com/cnni/egypt/
ianinegypt RT @jeffjarvis: Mubarak fortune could be 37% of Egypt’s GDP
And, about an hour later, this one:
SaadAbedine Guardian “Mubarak family fortune could reach $70bn, say experts”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/04/hosni-mubarak-family-fortune
February 5, 2011 at 3:35 pm
tra
Sounds like the word “kleptocracy” might apply.
February 5, 2011 at 3:52 pm
tra
From that Guardian article:
“Egyptian president has cash in British and Swiss banks plus UK and US property”
Seems like some potential leverage there, on the part of the U.S. government (and the British and Swiss governments, too).
At the very least, we should freeze his U.S. assets now (and those of his closest cronies), to prevent him from shifting the money somewhere else, at which point that U.S. leverage would be gone. Let him know that if he ever wants to get access to that property he’d better go ahead and step down and hand over power to a transitional government with elections scheduled for the near future (perhaps they’ve already played that card, in private…I hope so). Try to get the British to take the same approach (sadly, I doubt the Swiss will be willing to risk their reputation as a nice place for kleptocrats to store their ill-gotten gains)
Of course all that would only make sense if the Obama administration actually wants Mubarek to step down ASAP. The U.S. administration has sent mixed signals over the past couple of days, but the above statement from the “envoy” (a guy whose own firm has been on Mubarek’s payroll for years) is not encouraging. Looks like once again, the U.S. is at risk of winding up on the wrong end of history, supporting a violent, dictatorial regime, even on it’s deathbed.
Not too late to turn it around, though, and a good first step would be the U.S. publicly calling for Mubarek’s immediate resignation, and, perhaps privately, using his U.S. (and hopefully British) assets as leverage to encourage him to step down sooner rather than later.
February 5, 2011 at 4:09 pm
tra
Hmmmmmmmmm….
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak “remains utterly critical in the days ahead as we sort our way toward the future,” and must stay in office, President Barack Obama’s point man for Egypt, Frank Wisner, said Saturday at the Munich Security Conference in Germany. Wisner is the diplomatic official who delivered a message from President Barack Obama’s administration to Egypt’s leadership this week.
In response, U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said that
Wisner is no longer acting in any official capacity. “We have great respect for Frank Wisner and we were deeply appreciative of his willingness to travel to Egypt last week. He has not continued in any official capacity following the trip. The views he expressed today are his own. He did not coordinate his comments with the U.S. government,” Crowley said.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/category/world/egypt-world-latest-news/
Well the administration didn’t exactly say they disagreed with Wisner, but they did take the time to say that they didn’t necessarily agree with him. Not exactly “profiles in courage.”
So the administration seems to be carefully maintaining the ambiguity about whether they want Mubarak to resign ASAP. I hope they are pressuring much harder in private, and that if that doesn’t yield results soon they have the guts to go public with a call for his immediate resignation. It would be an important message to send to the Mubarak regime, to the protesters in Egypt, and to many others around the world.
February 5, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Plain Jane
Like I said at the beginning of this, Mubarak wants to get his wealth out of Egypt and as much of the country’s treasure as he can. It’s always the same. And there are always countries and bankers eager to help.
February 5, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Sally
Palin blasts administration’s handling of Egypt
Associated Press February 5, 2011 04:17 PM Copyright Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Saturday, February 5, 2011
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More News
* Anti-Mubarak activists bruised, tired, hungry 02.05.11
* Hundreds protest Egypt leader in several US cities 02.05.11
* Analysis: Obama telling Mubarak: Time to go 02.05.11
* Egypt ruling party leaders resign but regime holds 02.05.11
(02-05) 16:17 PST WASHINGTON, CA (AP) –
Sarah Palin says the Obama administration must tell Americans what it knows about who will be Egypt’s next leader.
In a Christian Broadcasting Network interview released Saturday, the 2008 vice presidential candidate says the administration is withholding information on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak’s likely successor.
The 82-year-old leader wants to rule until September elections.
Palin said in the Friday interview the U.S. must find out who is “behind all the turmoil” and that “we should not stand” for a government led by the Muslim Brotherhood.
Referencing a 2008 campaign ad, Palin said Egypt was the White House’s “3 a.m. phone call” but it “went right to the answering machine.”
She says the U.S. must say whom it stands with, “and we do not have all that information yet.”
Why does the press even cover this clap-trap? I thought February was supposed to be a “Palin-free” news cycle?
February 5, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Joel Mielke
Sally complains about the press covering the nitwit Palin by copying an AP story (complete with font specifications) and posting it here. Thanks.
February 5, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Sally
@ Joel – I just found it rather strange, after getting home from spending the day with my Mom, who just returned from Egypt. She’s 81 years old, quite sick and exhausted from her trip. My mom gets it, but Palin certainly does not.
February 5, 2011 at 9:57 pm
Eric Kirk
I’m not quite sure I understand Palin’s criticism. What exactly is Obama doing wrong?
tra – I think canning him is sending a pretty clear message, but if Obama starts openly calling for Mubarak’s overthrow, it could invigorate nationalism in Mubarak’s favor. I still think Obama is playing it right, and I’m assuming he does have more information. I’m wondering if Palin came into a little bit of it.
February 6, 2011 at 6:37 am
Plain Jane
Frank Rich’s column today raises some excellent points about the lack of availability of Al Jazeera in most of the US, the chauvinism (and ignorance) of Americans about the Middle East, and how the myth of the social networks being the cause of the revolution got started. link
February 6, 2011 at 9:06 am
Joel Mielke
What Obama is doing wrong, according to the lumpen opinion class, is that he’s not springing into action to make sure that a US-friendly dictator ends up with the reigns in Egypt.
As to Plain Jane’s comment, Al Jazeera English is easily available to anyone with internet access. The problem with older Americans is that they get their news primarily from TV and secondarily from newspapers. Both are generally abysmal sources of information.
February 6, 2011 at 9:32 am
moviedad
Let me the first to wish everyone a “Happy Traitors Day” When you see the mentally ill on the streets dying. The elderly being dumped in back alleys. And the complete disenfranchisement of the American Worker; you know who to thank.
February 6, 2011 at 9:56 am
Plain Jane
The point that Al Jazeera is available online was made by Frank Rich and millions are turning to the internet to access it since it is only available on TV in DC and a couple of small stations in the NE. Online versions of newspapers are, IMO, far superior to paper versions since it is more convenient to check their sources and find alternative views.
February 6, 2011 at 11:54 am
Eric Kirk
What Obama is doing wrong, according to the lumpen opinion class, is that he’s not springing into action to make sure that a US-friendly dictator ends up with the reigns in Egypt.
Even if I was in that mindset, I have no way of knowing whether Obama’s doing right or wrong by any criteria. Whatever his objective, the cautious public tone is called for especially if he doesn’t want to be perceived as meddling. As to what is happening behind the scenes, we probably won’t know for some time whether it’s appropriate, and there’s no point in speculating. If the reports are true that he has his military brass in constant contact with their Egyptian counterparts with whom they have cultivated relationships over several decades, then that would seem to bode well for his policy objectives, whatever they are – whether it’s democracy or self-centered foreign policy considerations. I hope it’s the former, but unfortunately sometimes with industrialized world leadership stability is paramount over justice. It may be that for the long run, those objectives are linked.
February 6, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Rose
a US-friendly dictator ends up with the reigns in Egypt.
LOL – great typo.
February 6, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Joel Mielke
Stick with typos Rose. At least you show some promise in that field.
February 6, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Joe Blow
Even if I was in that mindset, I have no way of knowing whether Obama’s doing right or wrong by any criteria.
On Ronald Reagan’s birthday it is fitting to note that he DID NOT SUFFER from your problem, Eric.
Obama serves the Ruling Elite. Everything he HAS DONE is wrong. It is as simple as that. The reason you don’t know what’s going on is because you serve the same master. The Day of the Ruling Elite is at it’s end.
February 6, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Eric Kirk
Rush Limbaugh: “We need to be rooting for Mubarak.”
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201102040030
February 6, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Joel Mielke
I hereby nominate Rush Limbaugh for “extraordinary rendition,” a Clinton policy that someone like Rose can enthusiastically support.
February 6, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Neville A. Ross
Joe Blow, you are full of it, like most of the extreme left.
The truth is, Obama is doing exactly what he should be doing-taking a wait and see approach to this crisis. If he meddled by saying ‘Mr Mubarak, please leave now for the sake of your nation’ you’d be accusing him of meddling in Egypt’s affairs. But since he is doing what he’s doing, he’s doing wrong in your eyes and the eyes of people like you. Kind of remind me of this article about Obama that I came across a while ago; What The “Do Nothing” Obama Has Accomplished That We Choose To Ignore Or Fail To Acknowledge plus the update, plus another update
Now tell me, with this info, that he ‘serves the Ruling Elite’.
February 6, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Eric Kirk
To his credit, William Kristol disagrees with Rush, Krauthammer, and many of his conservative colleagues.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/stand-freedom_541404.html?nopager=1
February 6, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Ernie's Place
If not Mubarak. Who?
Back in the late 50′s, back when most people on this blog were still in diapers, I remember watching my first revolution go down, where I had a small inkling of what was happening. Castro was the darling of us foolish young Americans that felt sorry for the poor Cuban people living under the terrible dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista. Castro was a charming young revolutionary, much like ourselves. We thought that he would free to Cubans, and form a democracy, after all, he promised, and he had a charming face. We trusted him like a brother.
From Wikipedia:
“Through television, Castro’s rudimentary command of the English language and charismatic presence enabled him to appeal directly to a U.S. audience.
In 1957, Castro also signed the Manifesto of the Sierra Maestra in which he agreed to call elections under the Electoral Code of 1943 within the first 18 months of his time in power and to restore all of the provisions of the 1940 Constitution of Cuba that had been suspended under Batista. While he took steps to implement some of the measures in the Manifesto upon coming into power, Cuba failed to have elections, the most important part of the program, within the allotted time.
In February 1958, Castro published in Coronet Magazine a famous statement of the goals of the movement. He stated that “we are fighting to do away with dictatorship in Cuba and to establish the foundations of genuine representative government” and promised to “prepare and conduct truly honest general elections within twelve months” after success. He also stated, “we have no plans for the expropriation or nationalization of foreign investments here”. He also justified his attacks on Cuba’s economy as the only way to bring down the Batista dictatorship. Despite his denouncement of dictatorships, Castro himself has been described as a dictator.”
Imagine our surprise when he invited the U.S. to get the hell out of Cuba after he formed his dictatorship. Imagine our horror when Castro aligned himself with The U.S.S.R. Russia tried to move a nuclear missle base onto Cuban soil. That precipitated one of the most dangerous confrontations in the history of the United States. As it turned out The U.S., and Cuba would have been far better off with Batista.
One burned, twice learned… What is going on in Egypt smells a lot like Cuba all over. Again, I ask: If not Mubarak who?
February 6, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Joel Mielke
Ernie, let’s just settle for whomever the Egyptian people choose.
February 6, 2011 at 7:54 pm
Eric Kirk
If not Mubarak. Who?
Wrong question. The question is who should decide whom.
The new leader hopefully won’t be coming to power after several years of civil war, and outside of an existing Constitutional framework. How someone comes to power is as important as who.
February 6, 2011 at 7:54 pm
tra
What is going on in Egypt smells a lot like Cuba all over.
Well, both are examples of popular uprisings against an authoritarian dictator, but that’s about where the similarities end.
February 6, 2011 at 7:55 pm
Eric Kirk
And here is a statement from Egyptian artists and intellectuals.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=500781569754&id=586357675
بعنوان” حل الأزمة يبدأ بتنحي مبارك الآن”، وقع مجموعة من المثقفين والفنانين والكتاب بيانًا بناء على طلب ائتلاف شباب الثورة المصرية يطالب بتنحي مبارك الآن وفورًا، وذلك كمخرج وحيد للخروج من الأزمة الحالية التي تمر بها مصر.
البيان أكد أن مبارك هو “المتسبب في كل المشكلات التي عانى منها الشعب المصري خلال 30 عامًا، والمتسبب في الشلل الذي تشهده الحياة الاقتصادية المصرية الآن، وما ترتب على ذلك من معاناة الكثيرين من فئات الشعب، خاصة الذين يعتمدون على الأجر اليومي، وهو المسئول الأول عن إراقة دماء الشهداء في الأيام الماضية سواء بالبلطجية أو القناصة أو قوات الأمن”.
وأشار الموقعون على البيان إلى أن هناك خطوة أولى لابد من القيام بها حتى يمكن “وجود نظام ديمقراطي يقوم على إلغاء قانون الطوارئ وجميع القوانين المقيدة للحريات، ويضمن التداول السلمي للسلطة، واحترام حقوق الإنسان، وحرية تشكيل الأحزاب والنقابات، ويمّكن فئات الشعب المختلفة من الدفاع عن مصالحها في حياة كريمة تقوم على العدالة الاجتماعية والحرية والكرامة الإنسانية”؛ هذه الخطوة، كما أكد البيان هي تنحي مبارك.
قائمة كاملة بالموقعين حتى الآن
سيد حجاب – شاعر
محفوظ عبد الرحمن – كاتب وسيناريست
علاء الأسواني – روائي وكاتب
أهداف سويف – روائية وكاتبة
فتحية العسال – كاتبة وسيناريست
إبراهيم عيسى – كاتب صحفي
فهمي هويدي – كاتب صحفي
بلال فضل – كاتب صحفي
علاء الديب – كاتب ومترجم
خالد أبو النجا – ممثل
محسنة توفيق – ممثلة
آسر ياسين – ممثل
نادر فرجاني – باحث
داوود عبد السيد – مخرج
محمد خان – مخرج
خليل كلفت – كاتب ومترجم
بسمة – ممثلة
خالد يوسف – مخرج سينمائي
محمد علي – مخرج
كاملة أبو ذكري – مخرجة سينمائية
تامر حبيب – سيناريست
عبد العزيز مخيون – ممثل
جمال عبد الحميد – مخرج
محمد العدل – منتج سينمائي
مدحت العدل – سيناريست
أحمد علاء – مخرج
أنسي أبو سيف – مهندس ديكور سينمائي
ناهد نصر الله – مصممة ملابس سينما
محمد ناصر – إعلامي
بثينة كامل – إعلامية
كمال أبو عيطة – نقيب العاملين بالضرائب العقارية
محمد أبو الغار – طبيب وأستاذ جامعي
مصطفى كامل السيد – أستاذ العلوم السياسية بجامعة القاهرة
عبد العزيز مخيون – ممثل
أمينة الرشيد – أستاذ أدب فرنسي بجامعة القاهرة
سيد البحراوي – أستاذ أدب عربي بجامعة القاهرة
دنيا مسعود – ممثلة ومغنية
خالد البلشي – صحفي
هاني خليفة – مخرج
أحمد عبد الله – مخرج
نهى العمروسي – ممثلة
نانسي عبد الفتاح – مصور سينمائي
هاني المتناوي – مخرج مسرحي
جمعة عبد اللطيف – مهندس صوت سينمائي
أحمد جابر – مهندس صوت سينمائي
نادين شمس – سيناريست
كارولين خليل – ممثلة
ناصر عبد المنعم – مخرج مسرحي
عزة شلبي – سيناريست
محمد عبلة – فنان تشكيلي يوقع عن فناني أتيليه القاهرة
إبراهيم منصور – كاتب صحفي
دعاء سلطان – صحفية
حسين جوهر – طبيب
فرح يوسف – ممثلة
حنان يوسف – ممثلة
مريم نعوم – سيناريست
تامر محسن – مخرج سينمائي
تامر عزت – مخرج
دينا فاروق عبد المنعم – مونتيرة
أسامة العبد – مخرج
عبير لطفي – ممثلة
شريف البنداري – مخرج
أحمد أبو سعدة – مخرج ومونتير
ولاء سعدة – مونتيرة
أحمد فتحي – مصور سينمائي
وسام سليمان – سيناريست
أحمد أبو زيد – مخرج
إيهاب أيوب – منتج فني
دينا جمال الدين – مخرجة
إيهاب خليل – مهندس ديكور سينمائي
هيثم التميمي – مخرج
عمرو الوشاحي – مخرج
مراد منير- مخرج
سلمى الطرزي – مخرجة
حسام ممدوح – مهندس صوت
حازم التوني – مونتير
دينا جميل – صحفية
عنان الشهاوي – كاتب صحفي
مروة فاروق – محامية
February 6, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Ernie's Place
TRA said: “Well, both are examples of popular uprisings against an authoritarian dictator, but that’s about where the similarities end.”
Lets hope TRA is right.
Eric.
Artists, intellectuals, great authors, and philosophers, were also behind Castro’s revolution. Remember Che’ Guevara?
February 6, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Ernie's Place
Joel
My fondest hope is that Egypt will be ruled by “whomever the Egyptian people choose”. However, that is seldom the case in a revolution. I still feel that Cuba is a good example of how our trust can be betrayed.
February 6, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Eric Kirk
Che wasn’t an intellectual, but yes, they were behind it.
But we aren’t seeing a revolution in Egypt, and no way is the military going to be overthrown and replaced and they won’t be starting from scratch in terms of constitution and law. I just don’t see any basis for comparison with Cuba. There’s no war here. Not yet anyway. If Mubarak tries to stay in power for very long and the military backs him, then be scared.
February 6, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Ernie's Place
When a strong group of people demand that the leader go, it’s a revolution. Mubarak holds all the cards as long as his military agrees with him. When/if they stop following him, it will be chaos. When/if they decide to stick with him it will be chaos. Right now they are talking about democracy, just talk…
I don’t anticipate Mubarak stepping aside without a well planned transition into a more firm dictatorship. Maybe his son or another chosen one, but I just don’t see the Mubaraks giving up any money or power.
Any talk of an election is just a ruse, and if they hold an election, it will be a fraud. Mubarak holds too many cards, and I don’t see anybody on the horizon that can be a strong democratically elected leader.
I guess that I should close with the thought that I wish for Egypt to have democracy, but I don’t even see a puppet willing to step forward as a democratically elected leader.
February 6, 2011 at 11:05 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, the US may pull another Aristide maneuver and get Mubarak out of the country while pretending we don’t have anything to do with what’s happening inside the country. It worked in Haiti.
I’m sure we have people drawing up plans with someone in the military right now. As to who is elected six months from now, it won’t really matter.
The question is how loyal the military is to Mubarak, and given the equivocation and passivity to date, I suspect it’s strained.
But either way, he has to leave the country. As someone from the Allende government once tried to explain to Kissinger, “it will be your problem not yours.” Unfortunately, he saw it differently.
February 6, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Eric Kirk
Dick Cheney – “Mubarak is a good man.”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2011/02/cheney_says_egypts_mubarak_a_good_man.php?ref=fpa
The lines are drawn.
February 7, 2011 at 8:19 am
Plain Jane
All dictators are good men to monsters like Cheney no matter what evil they do so long as their evil benefits the right people. I will believe till my dying day that Hussein was tricked into invading Kuwait by April Glaspie’s assurances that the US would not intervene in their squabbles over oil theft via lateral drilling. That Cheney and Co. wanted GHW Bush to invade and occupy Iraq then is not disputed. That they wanted to control Iraqi oil, after they weren’t allowed to just steal it to pay for the war, is also not disputed. That they created false intelligence and tortured for false confessions of Iraqi involvement in 9/11 is also not disputed (now). That Cheney would know a “good man” when he saw one is very much in doubt.
February 7, 2011 at 8:56 am
Erasmus
It’s odd that anyone would vow to believe until her dying day that trickery was involved in an historical event, when new facts and interpretations are constantly coming forth. For the record, Tariq Aziz, the Deputy Prime Minister under Saddam Hussein and the face of the regime to the outside world, said in a 1996 interview that April Glaspie’s remarks during the notorious meeting with Saddam Hussein were “routine,” that Saddam had “no illusions” about US military intervention, and that (in effect) no deception took place.– Ambassadors generally do not threaten their host country, and stating that the US had no opinion on the Iraq/Kuwait border dispute was standard diplomatic practice. (Many countries on this globe have border quarrels, and we normally do not expect one of the disputants to invade the neighbor, to annex the country, and to take away its seat at the UN General Assembly —– you’re believing that April Glaspie foresaw Saddam’s actions? If so, someone’s gullibility is on display.) — As for our controlling Iraqi oil —– some cliches never die. If you do some research and see which countries have benefited from contracts with Iraq in the past few years, you’ll see that China has done very well and that the US is not benefiting more than other major countries. — On the other hand, you can continue to adhere to your ideas until your dying day. True believers usually do.
February 7, 2011 at 9:13 am
Joe Blow
Again the puppet’s mouths speak, Eric & Ernie: Mubarak holds all the cards as long as his military agrees with him. When/if they stop following him, it will be chaos. When/if they decide to stick with him it will be chaos. Right now they are talking about democracy, just talk…
and As it turned out The U.S., and Cuba would have been far better off with Batista. One burned, twice learned… What is going on in Egypt smells a lot like Cuba all over. Again, I ask: If not Mubarak who?
and least but not last, The new leader hopefully won’t be coming to power after several years of civil war, and outside of an existing Constitutional framework. How someone comes to power is as important as who.
If either of you two listened to these people and watched what they are doing, you’d know this paranoid propaganda is bullshit. They are not just talking “democracy” as you understand it; actually mob rule. What they are SHOWING by DOING is a NEW Way — Real Democracy. That “New Way” is NOT about some individual taking control and re-subjugating the people. The Revolution is NOT about getting rid of “their leader.” He NEVER was “their leader.” He was and is a Strongman Dictator without ANY legitimacy. What they are trying to overthrow or get rid of is the “Old Guard” Ruling Elite that sleep with the United State’s Ruling Elite represented by Barack Obama and his government. That same revolution is already at work in this country. You two should take heed since that, the “Old Guard,” is exactly who you two support in this country and in this county. For everyone that wants to look, your lip-service to Democracy while supporting despots exposes you for who and what you truly are, no friend to any people.
Eric, you tell me that you’ve studied and practiced politics your whole life, YET you totally cannot see what is unfolding right before your eyes. Until this burgeoning revolution began to move across the world, I would have thought you to have defined yourself as a rather extreme “Left Wing Liberal.” Now I don’t see any difference between you and Ernie Branscomb. You entertain and support the corrupt while trying to tell everyone you practice the sacrosanct. What does that say about you?
February 7, 2011 at 10:33 am
Plain Jane
Well, Erasmus, if you will go back and look at the PROMISES the Bush administration made about using Iraqi oil to pay for the war, their very public attempts to control the oil when they weren’t allowed to just take it and Glaspie’s testimony about what she said to Hussein, what Aziz said about the assurance Hussein received that the US would not intervene is irrelevant. If Hussein thought the US would defend Kuwait, he wouldn’t have invaded. Of course, subsequent events would probably have been very different without that invasion. Who buys the most Iraqi oil is irrelevant as well since oil is sold at global market prices regardless of source: domestic oil, Iraqi oil, Venezuelan oil, Kuwaiti oil – it doesn’t matter. That’s was so absurd about people thinking domestic drilling would protect us from price hikes in the Middle East.
February 7, 2011 at 12:23 pm
Ernie's Place
Thank-you Joe Blow, when you quote Eric and I it makes us sound brilliant!
February 7, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Confused
I’m confused. Weren’t Ernie and Eric actually debating a point?
February 7, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Ernie's Place
Yeah, we were, it was friendly debate. but don’t tell Blow. He doesn’t get it. He is the only one in Blow World.
February 7, 2011 at 6:44 pm
tra
Bill Kristol on Glenn Beck’s Egypt “Hysteria”
When Glenn Beck rants about the caliphate taking over the Middle East from Morocco to the Philippines, and lists (invents?) the connections between caliphate-promoters and the American left, he brings to mind no one so much as Robert Welch and the John Birch Society. He’s marginalizing himself, just as his predecessors did back in the early 1960s…Kristol continues: “Nor is it a sign of health when other American conservatives are so fearful of a popular awakening that they side with the dictator against the democrats. Rather, it’s a sign of fearfulness unworthy of Americans…
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/bill-kristol-glenn-beck-is-marginalizing-himself-with-egypt-hysteria.php?ref=fpb
February 7, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Plain Jane
Kristol just noticed? Well, one of Palin’s biggest fans can’t be very astute.
February 8, 2011 at 6:43 am
Joel Mielke
Perhaps it’s news to Mr. Kristol that Glenn Beck borrows heavily from the newly energized organization of lunatic geriatric reactionaries, but what he might want to contemplate is the leadership of William F. Buckley, who gave the John Birch Society the heave-ho from the Republican Party in the early ’60s.
February 8, 2011 at 7:44 am
Plain Jane
Maybe that’s why the Koch Bros, sons of a JBS founder, are so eager to fund the TeaParty. The GOP just doesn’t get nutty enough to suit them.
February 8, 2011 at 8:48 am
Joe Blow
“Makes you sound brilliant” – Only in your lifeless minds? The point of your so-called “debate” reveals your amoral and hypocritical support for a vicious and violently brutal dictator. That makes you American-style THUGS – Enemies of the people, their right to be free, live with,dignity, decency and the protection of law.
February 8, 2011 at 9:22 am
Eric Kirk
Yeah Ernie! Come the revolution your back’s gonna be against the wall buddy!
Not me though. I’m turning over a new leaf. I’m going to wake up each morning thinking about how I can stick it to the Man!
February 8, 2011 at 9:52 am
Joe Blow
Brilliant! But, WAY TOO LATE.
February 8, 2011 at 9:59 am
Ernie's Place
Joe Blow, are you sure that you weren’t Don Quixote in another life?
February 8, 2011 at 10:01 am
Eric Kirk
To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe…
February 8, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Sally
To bear, the unbearable blogger . . . ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫
February 8, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Plain Jane
HAHA Sally!
February 9, 2011 at 7:26 am
Mitch
I may be really late to chime in with this link, but I only watched it last evening, and it is one of the most moving pieces of video I’ve seen. I expect it will be well-known 50 years from now, at least the last couple of minutes.
If you want to see the difference between “a good man” and what the world generally gives us as “leaders,” this video highlights the difference in a very stark way. Here’s someone from whose mouth the words “collateral damage” could never emerge.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/feb/08/egypt-activist-wael-ghonim-google-video
February 9, 2011 at 8:25 am
Eric Kirk
Mitch – Wow!
February 9, 2011 at 9:01 am
Joel Mielke
Thanks for the video Mitch. I can hardly wait for a rebuttal from Mr. Stunich.
February 9, 2011 at 9:11 am
Erasmus
I don’t have access to television news,so this video was revelatory for me. The young man is the kind of person I would want to lead a revolution. Let’s hope that the movement for change in Egypt isn’t hijacked by “Bolsheviks” of whatever stripe.
February 9, 2011 at 9:55 am
Eric Kirk
My guess is that Andy will say that he seems like an earnest man who cares about his country, but that he is educated and western influenced and therefor not representative of the opposition. And that as good as this man’s intentions are the irony is that if he is successful he will probably be one of the first killed by the forces he helps to bring to power, much like the Menchevik’s/SR’s of the Soviet revolution or more applicably the secular factions of the Iranian revolution of 1979.
At least that’s what I think he will say. But maybe I should let him speak for himself.
February 9, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Mitch
Erasmus,
I doubt access to American TV news would have resulted in your seeing the video. I hope someone corrects my assumption if I’m wrong. Maybe they played five seconds.
February 9, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Joel Mielke
“…maybe I should let him speak for himself.”
And yet Eric still hit “post comment.”
February 9, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Eric Kirk
Couldn’t help myself.
February 10, 2011 at 9:03 am
Joe Blow
and so Sally and Jane enter the fray.
First they ignore you… . . . ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫
Next they laugh at you… . . . ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫
Then they fight you… . . . ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫
Right on cue folks.