The statement comes from their website, and it pretty much reflects my views.
December 28, 2008
Jewish Voice for Peace joins millions around the world, including the 1,000 Israelis who protested in the streets of Tel Aviv this weekend, in condemning ongoing Israeli attacks on Gaza. We call for an immediate end to attacks on all civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli.
Israel’s slow strangulation of Gaza through blockade has caused widespread suffering to the 1.5 million people of Gaza due to lack of food, electricity, water treatment supplies and medical equipment. It is a violation of humanitarian law and has been widely condemned around the world.
In resisting this strangulation, Hamas resumed launching rockets and mortars from Gaza into southern Israel, directly targeting civilians, which is also a war crime. Over the years, these poorly made rockets have been responsible for the deaths of 15 Israelis since 2004.
Every country, Israel included, has the right and obligation to protect its citizens. The recent ceasefire between Israel and Hamas in Gaza shows that diplomatic agreements are the best protection for civilian life.
Moreover, massive Israeli air strikes have proven an indiscriminate and brutal weapon. In just two days, the known death toll is close to 300, and the attacks are continuing. By targeting the infrastructure of a poor and densely populated area, Israel has ensured widespread civilian casualties among this already suffering and vulnerable population.
This massive destruction of Palestinian life will not protect the citizens of Israel. It is illegal and immoral and should be condemned in the strongest possible terms. And it threatens to ignite the West Bank and add flames to the other fires burning in the Middle East and beyond for years to come.
The timing of this attack, during the waning days of a US administration that has undertaken a catastrophic policy toward the Middle East and during the run-up to an Israeli election, suggests an opportunistic agenda for short-term political gain at an immense cost in Palestinian lives. In the long run this policy will benefit no-one except those who always profit from war and exploitation. Only a just and lasting peace, achieved through a negotiated agreement, can provide both Palestinians and Israelis the security they want and deserve.
Addendum: Somebody linked me to this video entitled If the IDF made Hamas-style videos. It comes with the following explanation.
Here is how I imagine an IDF video would look like if it was made like those cheesy Hamas jihadist videos that glorify terror, with bad music, poor sound effects and repetitive explosions.
I haven’t seen any Hamas videos so I can’t judge, but I guess the real point is to prove that the IDF was targeting paramilitary operations. I don’t think there’s any serious doubt about that. But it also misleads, much like the first Gulf War footage, to suggest that these are “surgical strikes” and not an the overkill being suggested by a number experts.
Here is a comment on the Youtube page (you can get there by clicking twice on the video).
Good vid…& to extend the metaphor, imagine what would happen if the Palestinians had a wing of F-18 fighters. Would they just use them responsibly like the Israeli’s do and just protect their own land or limit their incursions to 40 miles into Israel like they are doing with their rockets? No, they would try to wipe out Israel as fast as they could.
202 comments
Comments feed for this article
December 31, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Joe Blow
Really?
December 31, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Eric Kirk
There is a debate raging on a newslist called “Democratic Left.” Most of the participants are members of the Democratic Socialists of America, an offshoot of the Socialist Party. Here are some highlights.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050421.html
Wartime in Gaza: The worst anti-Israel charges you’ll hear
By Bradley Burston, Haaretz Correspondent
be hurled in an effort to attack Israel.
The first five are arguments of the anti-Israel left, claims which are,
curiously, as tired as they are unflagging.
____________ ________
Leftist 1: Israel’s true motive in bombing Gaza, is genocide against the
Palestinian people and extermination of their right to statehood.
Israel’s genuine interest in this campaign is strikingly similar to Hamas’
interest in firing scores of rockets into Israeli population centers:
Forcing a cease-fire on better terms than the one just ended.
For Hamas, this largely means easing Israeli economic sanctions against
Gazans. For Israel, this centers on ending shelling by Qassam and Grad
missiles and mortar shells. For both sides, this means a prisoner exchange,
centering on Gilad Shalit and hundreds of jailed Hamas members.
Leftist 2: The Palestinians have no recourse but to defend themselves, and
the makeshift rockets they fire are nothing compared to the world’s most
advanced warplanes and munitions, which the IDF is using against them.
The Human Rights Watch organization has been unequivocal in condemning the
use of Qassam rockets as a direct violation of international humanitarian
law and the laws of war. The firing of Qassams and mortars against civilian
populations also
constitutes collective punishment
against hundreds of thousands of innocent Israeli men, women and children.
Moreover, the firing of Qassams began not as a response to the siege
against Gaza, but as a marathon celebration by armed Islamic fundamentalist
groups following Israel’s withdrawal of its troops and settlers from the
Strip. To purposely add insult to injury, Islamic Jihad and other
organizations used the ruins of settlements as launch platforms.
Leftist 3: All that Hamas is asking, is recognition as the democratically
elected government of Gaza, and an end to the Israeli economic embargo. Were
they to attain these goals, there would be calm on both sides of the border.
It is both unrealistic and dangerous to believe that Hamas has abandoned
its clearly stated and often reiterated goal of establishing an Islamic
Palestinian state in all of the Holy Land, including all land claimed,
annexed by, or in any way occupied by Israel.
Beyond that, Hamas has strong alliances with the Egyptian opposition
Muslim brotherhood, as well as working partnerships with the Iran-dominated
Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad.
Israeli restraint, when practiced, has been met with contempt and
additional Hamas and Hamas-tolerated strikes against civilian populations.
Leftist 4: The Israeli blockade against Hamas is state terrorism and any
means to fight it are legitimate.
There is every reason to believe that Israel’s economic siege against Gaza
is misguided, but not for an essential cruelty, rather because Hamas taxes
collected on the influx of goods imported through tunnels from Egyptian
territory have subsidized and cemented Hamas rule.
Leftist 5: The world overwhelmingly sympathizes with the Palestinians
against Israel, and unreservedly backs their struggle for independence.
In an era of global revulsion against radical Islamic terror, Hamas’
protracted program of suicide bombings, drive-by murders and shelling of
civilian populations, coupled with its refusal to renounce violence,
recognize Israel, or accept past peace agreements, coupled with its ideology
of militant jihad, have drained the Palestinians of international sympathy
and have, in fact, legitimized Israeli arguments of military self-defense.
Nothing has been more instrumental in harming the cause of Palestinian
independence than Hamas, with its brutal take-over of Gaza in a war with
brother Palestinians, and its frank efforts to build a large-scale regular
army force in the Strip.
In Part Two, in the coming week: The second five will be newer claims, the
Alpha-male displays of the Israel-bashing right, the group which constantly
berates the government and the IDF for not bombing Gaza into a parking lot,
for not shooting and starving and freezing innocent civilians to death.
On 12/28/08, Michael Pugliese wrote:
Greg Mitchell>…In the usual process, the U.S. government, media here –
and most liberal bloggers — are silent or playing down questions about
whether Israel overreacted in its massive air strikes on Gaza, while the
foreign press, and even Haaretz in Israel, carries more balanced accounts.
Anyone who cares should consult the respected Haaretz site often, if for
no other reason than to learn that criticism of Israeli military actions are
usually more heated inside that country than in the USA.
Even Haaretz? A fine newspaper, yes, but, a paper that features Amira
Hess positions itself as on the utopian left. And, with the standard bromide
above methinks Mitchell skirts close to the ZOG thesis.
Dave Anderson wrote:
Burston makes good points but…isn’ t there an Israeli election coming up?
Richard Falk had this to say:
“Certainly the rocket attacks against civilian targets in Israel are
unlawful. But that illegality does not give rise to any Israeli right,
neither as the Occupying Power nor as a sovereign state, to violate
international humanitarian law and commit war crimes or crimes against
humanity in its response. I note that Israel’s escalating military assaults
have not made Israeli civilians safer; to the contrary, the one Israeli
killed today after the upsurge of Israeli violence is the first in over a
year.”
That last sentence jumped out at me. “The one Israeli killed today..is the
first in over a year.” The rocket attacks are indefensible but this is
not an emergency. Unless you think that an upcoming election in Israel as an
emergency. Probably for some in high places in Israel, it is.
Dave Anderson
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Michael Pugliese
wrote:
> How can someone who has the political and legal biases that Falk has
> (and a 9-11 Truther to boot) be regarded as any type of authority, Dave? How
> the hell does the UN think that appointing someline like Falk that calls
> jews, nazis, has any standing to address the issues in a non-prejudicial
> fashion?
>
> The first responsibility of any sovereign state is to to protect the
> lives of its citizens. After thousands of rockets have been launched from
> Gaza, the Israeli public, including the party to the Left of Labour, Meretz,
> said, enough, Abu Mazen of the PA ,the Egyptians, I assume all the other
> Arab States, except for Syria (where the “external” wing of Hamas, even more
> militaristic than the Gaza leadership.. .which regularly hosts “peace and
> justice” useful idiots who think Mashal is Gandhi) repeatedly told Hamas to
> keep its end of the hudna/truce but, Hamas, driven by its messianic,
> chiliastic end times ideology (goaded by large parts of the int’l. radical
> left) just can’t and I doubt ever will, moderate itself like Fatah did
> eventually.
> Between the naive experts like a Helena Cobban on her blog who asks,
> plaintively, “What Does Hamas want?, ” (as if they operate by rational
> choice theory or are some type of proxy for a , guffaw, “secular, democratic
> state, ” the other illusion of the rad left when it isn’t braying, “victory
> to Hamas!, ” and, “We are all Hezbollah!”) and the hawkishness of a Andrew
> McCarthy on NRO (who prosecuted the ’93 bombers of the WTC, including the
> “Blind Sheikh, ” which that leftist lawyer, in her interview in Monthly
> Review, defended as some sort of leftist hero…) who basically calls for
> Gaza to be razed, there has to be a better discussion. One that doesn’t
> engage in all the tired leftist or rightist tropes.
>
Dave Anderson wrote:
> You aren’t dealing with the issue. Do you believe in collective
> punishment like Ward Churchill?
Michael Pugliese wrote:
No, as my citation of Andrew McCarthy should have made clear, David. When the death toll was 220 Hamas admitted that 180 of the casualties were Hamas militants. The islamic university hit last night was a site where missile were manufactured and stored.
And Sabeel, David, their founder supports Hamas.
———— ——— ——— ——
—–The Democratic Left List—–
To post message: DemocraticLeft@ yahoogroups. com
To subscribe: DemocraticLeft- subscribe@ yahoogroups. com
To unsubscribe: DemocraticLeft- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
To view messages on the web:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Democratic Left/messagesYah oo! Groups Links
December 31, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Moviedad
I do not support this site, but there is a Non-Israeli side to things.
http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/atrocities.htm
December 31, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“… there is a Non-Israeli side to things.”
Sadly, most Americans only hear the official Israeli version of events.
December 31, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Jewish Person
Sadly, most visitors to this blog hear only the mindlessly anti-Israeli views of The Left.
Ask yourself this question: if Mexican nationalists began lobbing missiles into Kindergartens in San Diego, how long would we put up with it?
December 31, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Nick Bravo
here’s a vid I found on youtube that may enlighten some of you.
“geography defines this never ending conflict, always has, always will…the current cycle of violence is simply one of many such cycles that are hardwired into the geography of Israel and Palestine and from which there is no escape. It is almost unnecessary to go through the political reasoning that has led each side to this point, except to explain why it is happening now instead of earlier or later. The politics simply determine the time and shape of conflict. Geography determines that the conflict is intractable.”
January 1, 2009 at 11:54 am
Carson Park Ranger
Poor “Jewish Person.” He scratches his head and wonders why the world hates the Israelis.
January 1, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Eric Kirk
Actually, my amazing powers of deduction have led me to conclude that JP is female.
January 1, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Not A Native
Gee CPR, thats pretty broad.
What are the factual references that support your claim that the “world hates the Israelis”?
January 1, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Anonymous
Fortunately Joel, most of the non-muslim disagrees with you. The majority of the free and non-racist world does not hate Israelis.
Were you, Eric, and your friends to live in sothern Israel. I might have a little respect for your opinion. As it stands you have no personal experience of what it is like to live in Israel or the palistinian territories and hear only the biased reports with which you are predisposed to agree with. This admittedly is no different than most of the extremist at the other end of the spectrum. None of you truly know what you are talking about, unfortunately lives are impacted by ignorant American public opinion.
January 1, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Eric Kirk
Were you, Eric, and your friends to live in sothern Israel. I might have a little respect for your opinion.
If I was to argue that way, I’d say that I’d only respect your opinion if you lived in the Gaza.
January 1, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Eric Kirk
What are the factual references that support your claim that the “world hates the Israelis”?
It’s in the old Tom Lehrer song National Brotherhood Week.
Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Moslems
And the Moslems hate the Hindus
And everybody hates the Jews
January 1, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Anonymous
Eric, Your point is well taken which is why I stated “As it stands you have no personal experience of what it is like to live in Israel or the palistinian territories…” as part of my comment. Either way, we are not sufficiently informed with unbiased information to be expressing opinions of any sort. While I have little confidence in our present government in general (all of them, Dems, Repubs, ect..) they, collectively, are the best we have and in conjunction with the Israelis and Palistinians and other informed governments should work to resolve the conflict.
January 1, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Jewish Person
Unfortunately, still true, Eric. And that’s why Israel is so important to the Jews.
January 1, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Moviedad
Virtually every country in the “free world” is right now condemning Israel for its war crimes. is that enough proof for you? Only the U.S. supports the Genocide.
Lets play analogy, I want my family’s house back, that you stole in 1948, with the help of the U.S. and terrorist tactics.
You answer me by murdering my children, you won’t even admit that I am a human being. I fight back, and you use that as an excuse to murder my whole people. one dead Israeli citizens is worth a thousand Palestinian lives.
Somehow I am a terrorist, and you are a victim.
How can anyone look at this history, and not conclude that Israel has been guilty of war crimes and genocide?
January 1, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Jewish Person
“How can anyone look at this history, and not conclude that Israel has been guilty of war crimes and genocide?”
It helps if you know the history. The Jewish claim to Israel is arguably the oldest real estate claim on earth. The “stolen” property claim is very stale propaganda that is cynically used to justify the murder of Jews. In fact, it was Jewish property that was stolen–throughout the Arab world–when Jews fled to Israel in the mid 20th century. Nearly a million Jews had to leave with nothing.
The residents of Gaza have a choice: they can have a peaceful, demilitarized, prosperous state like Singapore, or they can have a power struggle. Nearly every single day since Israel ended its occupation of Gaza Hamas has fired missiles at Israeli population centers. They have chosen a power struggle and now they are paying the price.
As for this supposed “condemnation” of Israel from “every country in the Free world, were you thinking of Syria and Iran? There has been no “condemnation” from Germany, France, England or any other “Free World” country. Indeed, each one of these countries would respond militarily if their population centers were rocketed.
January 1, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Moviedad
You are completely leaving out the atrocities the “Children of Israel” committed to “Seize” the Promised Land. They killed everybody and took the land. So what Real Estate claim are you referring to.
I guess the United Nations does not represent the free world?
January 1, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“What are the factual references that support your claim that the “’world hates the Israelis’”?
I never claimed that the world hates Israelis.
January 1, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Dave Kirby
I don’t get what Hamas thinks (oxymoron) they will accomplish with their constant rocket attacks. You poke the lion with a stick until he eats you and yours and then cry foul. Hamas is a glamorized gang masquerading as a political movement.
January 1, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Nick Bravo
My comments exposing the jews keep disappearing. Gee, wonder why?
Eric? Do you have German blood? A little holocaust guilt?
January 1, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Not A Native
CPR, you should read and own up your postings. Your dismissive criticism of JP at 11:54 says his viewpoint explains why “the world hates the Israelis”.
Is the truth its YOU who hates the Israelis and invoking “the world” was a chicken shit way to create something to hide behind?
Eric,
During National Brotherhood Week,
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
Step up and take the hand of,
Someone you can’t stand.
Its only for a week so have no fear,
Be grateful that it doesn’t last all year!
Lehrer’s criticism of Liberals ushered in the new civil rights movements. They divided and destablized the conservative-established-capitalist and liberal-immigrant-unionist socioeconomic groupings. Divisions sharpened later, personified in the person of Ronald Reagan. Social instability is still increasing and the uncertainty feels to individuals like society isn’t functional, a culture war.
January 1, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Anonymous
“He scratches his head and wonders why the world hates the Israelis.” , Sorry, Joel, it is impossible to construe your comment otherwise. If you changed your mind, misspoke, forgot, lied, saw the light, or otherwise have been born again admit the error and move on.
January 1, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Nick Bravo
Americans aren’t supposed to know this
Contrary to Israeli war party propaganda in the US, not all Jews and not all Israelis support Israel’s Nazi-like conduct in the Occupied Territories.
This simple fact is probably the single most censored piece of news in the United States.
Here are some young people heading to prison because they won’t join the genocide.
You can support these brave kids.
January 1, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Nick Bravo
Hey Eric what’s your opinion of the israeli draft and the kids who refuse to fight in the israeli army? Are they justified?
How would you feel if America forced people to join the army for a time? How would you feel about the americans who would refuse to fight?
January 1, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Anonymous
Eric, If Nicks comments are racist or somehow cross the line please continue to moderate, Movie-moron’s are already more than borderline. I rarely agree with your other positions but we can all agree that there is no room here or anywhere else for racism, anti-semitism, or bigotry in any form. I suggest they go join Stephen.
January 1, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Nick Bravo
To be fair to Eric, when I was younger I studied German history to an almost absurd degree. I developed some guilt because of what my race anscestos did less than a hundred years ago, eventually I met some jews and came to realize there was nothing particularly noteworthy about them.
They were just people, just like everyone else. They had hopes, dreams, passions, flaws, opinions, quirks, etc…..just like EVERYONE ELSE. I soon got over my guilt, because I realized that in various points in history every group has been oppressed at one time or another and that the people alive now are not responsible for what their anscetors did, just as their descendants will not be responsible for what they do now.
What concerns me the most about my own cultural identity, as well as others, is that when one fights monsters one should be careful to not become the thing they are fighting.
January 1, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Lefty
Nothing noteworthy except that despite the best efforts of non Jews to kill them off Jews still exist. How such a small group of people can arouse the ire of so many is beyond comprehension to me. Further confounding is the ability of this small group to play such a major role in so many divergent fields. I’m certain that jealousy plays a large part in the hate for Jews in the 21st century.
January 1, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Nick Bravo
The Kurds, the gypsies, the palestinians, countless african tribes. There’s oppressed tribes all over the world but the american media focuses on the jews. Partially for political reasons and the other being religious reasons.
January 1, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Nick Bravo
Jealous of what? They’re a backwater people in a land with no natural resources and no allies in the region. Had I been the U.N. back in the 40′s I would’ve made a deal with the U.S. to give them new jersey or some other part of the country.
Reality is that the jews and other tribes in the mideast have been at war for thousands of years. It’s doubtful any of them will “cease fire” untill their enemies are nothing but a distant memory.
January 1, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Jewish Person
Moviedad: By “atrocities” I assume you mean the war of independence, in which Israel fought off five invading armies.
It seems to bother you that when attacked, Jews defend themselves.
January 1, 2009 at 7:25 pm
S.C.
My daughter is sabre, born in Israel. I stood guard, dog watch, over a children’s bunker for two weeks in Oct. 1973. My daughter was born 3 weeks later. I do not believe in Israel right or wrong any more than I believe in the US right or wrong. Sheep do that. The destruction of Lebanon and this invasion and strangulation of Gaza are wrong. God bless you Obama and good luck.
January 1, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Nick Bravo
S.C. I highly respect your opinion on this issue. What’s your opinion on the forced military draft that the Israel has?
January 1, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“CPR, you should read and own up your postings. Your dismissive criticism of JP at 11:54 says his viewpoint explains why ‘the world hates the Israelis’.”
Not-a-Native should learn how to read and write.
Jewish Person is a self-appointed spokesperson for all Jews, but I doubt that there are many people who would appreciate his representation. My “posting” stated that he “wonders why the world hates the Israelis.” That is not to say that I believe that the world hates Israelis.
January 1, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Eric Kirk
Nick – Generally speaking I oppose any military draft, only I don’t live in a country where 22 surrounding countries have pledged to kill me because I’m not Muslim.
That being said, I have great respect for the conscientious objectors in Israel, otherwise known as the “refuseniks” and a key group being the Yesh G’vul.
As to whether such resistance is “right,” I strongly believe that such a position is as much a personal issue as a social one, and that such a judgment should be left to individual conscience.
And yes, there are other groups which have been oppressed. There’s no point in trying to argue which is more oppressed, because there’s no way to quantify social and political oppression. Quite frankly, I think the American media is deficient when it comes to reporting anti-Semitism, but it’s all in the beholder I guess. Anti-Semitism directly affects members of my family, so the topic interests me more than some other topics.
And yes, for reasons pertaining to certain cultural realities rather than any innate superior ability, Jews are disproportionately successful in many endeavors. And yes, some people are jealous. And sometimes Jews, like others, are successful because they benefit from inequitable systems. Although they are far from the only group who benefit this way, they make convenient targets for demagogues like Hitler.
And Nick, Jews are no longer organized in “tribes.” They haven’t been since well before the time of Christ. I thought you knew something about history. Please refrain from comments of that nature.
January 1, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Eric Kirk
And the “backwater people” comment is also out of line. If you said that about black people nobody would dispute the racism of the comment.
January 1, 2009 at 10:06 pm
S.C.
It IS a strange feeling to sit in the Upper Gallilee as rockets rain down upon the countryside from 3 surrounding countries. My first trip to Israel was to study communal living forms, kibutzim being one of the more recent and successful efforts at communal living. I was struck by how real and just plain good the youth were. Maybe pressure makes diamonds. Doing a term in the military was as normal as going to high school is here.
I myself don’t like the draft, burnt my card in ’64. I went to Vietnam in ’69 to help get people to Canada who didn’t want to be drafted. The draft didn’t work in that war because with a draft you get too many people who think for themselves and wind up fragging their louie when it becomes apparent the war is a sham. That’s why there is no draft in the US. They would rather economically oppress (shock and awe) folks until the military seems like a good alternative. You know: the military or jail. BUT, I also don’t feel I have a right to judge what another country does to survive, as far as defense. I can have an opinion, but hopefully refrain from judgment. Every time I’ve been somewhere when history was being made, what was reported was far from the truth, certainly the context was missing. So, when we express these opinions they are rarely well founded.
January 1, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Not A Native
CPR,
No where did JP write or imply “the world hates Isrealis”. Those are your words CPR, and your words alone. 6:18 gives you some face saving suggestions but the honorable thing to do would be to fall on your sword and acknowledge you have antisemitic biases. At least that would show honesty and redeem you. If you continue to stonewall, that will just show the depth of your prejudice.
January 1, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Eric Kirk
This was emailed to me from someone on a discussion list. It’s an account of a demonstration this week in San Francisco.
Wednesday, December 31, 2008
http://atthebackoft hehill.blogspot. com/2008/ 12/jew-hate- in-sf-demonstrat ion-in-front. html
JEW HATE IN SF: DEMONSTRATION IN FRONT OF THE ISRAELI CONSULATE TUESDAY DECEMBER 30, 2008
Apparently, I am a Jew Faggot. This per a large very dark gentleman representing International ANSWER, organizers of yesterday’s protest in front of the Israeli Consulate on Montgomery Street.
Or it could be that he was a member of the Muslim American Society Freedom, the National Council of Arab Americans, Free Palestine Alliance, Al-Awda – International Palestine Coalition for the Right of Return, Bay Area Women in Black, Society for Justice in Palestine, ISM, the Spartacists, the South Bay Alliance, the Anti-Zionist Jews, or Jewish Voice for Peace. All of whom were either sponsors or participants in the largest Israel-bashing fest in SF since 2006.
But the group he represented is not the point. He was utterly convinced that I was a Jew Faggot, and very vocal about it. He does not appear to much like Jew Faggots.
I have no problem with the term, so it is with profound humility and pride that I accept the appellation ‘Jew Faggot’ as a badge of honour.
I was also informed by several other supporters of the Palestinian cause that I was a dog, a pig, a monkey, inhuman, the son of a whore, and that I deserved to be shot, gutted, slashed open, have my children killed, and see my wife raped.
[Given that I am, apparently, a Jew Faggot, it is not clear what is meant by the term 'wife' - explication is required. Thank you.]
And by gum, they believed themselves the ones to do all that – if only there weren’t so many witnesses, dash it all.
PRO-ISRAEL COUNTERDEMONSTRATIO N
4:45 PM – 6:45 PM
At which approximately 100 – 120 supporters of Israel meet nearly three thousand screaming Palestinians, Peace activists, Presbyterians, Pakistanis, and assorted other Protestants and politically obtuse personages.
Plus some angry people from the Yemeni mosque on Bush Street between Polk and Van Ness (At-Tawfik Yemenis Cultural Center).
We (that being myself and five others) arrived at quarter to five with our Israeli and American flags, and it was already apparent that our side was vastly outnumbered, also that the police had lost control of the situation. The SFPD wanted to keep both sides apart. They failed utterly to do so. The anti-Israel mob occupied all of the street on the consulate side, and most of the other side of the street as well. Our people were surrounded on all sides, scattered in clumps among the screaming masses of anti-Israel activists, Muslims, and generally hate-filled opportunists. Several times the jostling and elbowing threatened to turn violent.
The cops’ main focus had devolved to preventing angry confrontata from turning into active bloodshed, OR windows being broken. Nose to nose screaming matches, pushing and shoving – all fine, as long as it did not lead to punches, flying objects, shattered glass.
The SFPD actually achieved both of those humble aims, though they did not achieve anything else. They did not want to wade in to physically separate the sides, probably because of the danger that the Arab-Americans or ANSWER members would go feral.
[Besides, Jews can take care of themselves - as one bloated red-faced woman's sign said, one dead Jew means 300 dead Palestinians, and we were not even outnumbered thirty to one.]
Two hours of angry rioting and threats of death, plus several incidents that could have become bloody, do not leave me with any positive appreciation of the pro-Palestinian side. Which includes Bay Area Women in Black, Jewish Voice for Peace, Students for Justice in Palestine, and International ANSWER, in addition to agitators bused in from San Jose (South Bay Mobilization) , Marin, and various heathenish pig-butt boondocks.
SLOGANS
The anti-Israel side had one slogan in English, and several more in Arabic.
The English-language slogan: “Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea” – which frankly states the intent to destroy the Jewish state and ethnically cleanse the land.
The Arabic slogans: “Itbach al Yahud” (slaughter the Jews), “Falastin balad’na w’al Yahud qalab’na” (Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs), “ba ruh, ba dam, nafdeek ya Falastin” (with our soul, with our blood, we will cleanse you oh Palestine), “al mawt al Yahud” (death to the Jews), “Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahud, jaish-Muhammad saya’ud” (Khaybar Khaybar oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return).
[That last slogan refers to the battle of Khaybar where the prophet Muhammad opportunistically attacked and slaughtered the Jews who had been hospitable to another Arab tribe. The subsequent sacking of Khaybar by Muhammad's forces re-energized the brigands who had flocked to his cause, and persuaded several Bedouin tribes to join Muhammad's forces in hopes of fun and profit.]
While the Arabs screamed their desire to exterminate Jews, the English-monolingual ists simply stood there happily smiling their approbation. The correct pronunciation may have been beyond them, but they approved of the sentiment. Which is proven by their resolute continued presence and solidarity.
No, they do NOT have plausible deniability – the ‘river to the sea’ slogan shows that they wish for a genocide against Israel, and translations of the Arabic slogans have been provided so many times that they cannot claim ignorance of the meanings.
Besides, the angry Middle-Eastern Jew-hater with a bullhorn, and the rabid white chick with an equally loud bullhorn and a grating voice, made plain in great detail what the peace movement’s plan for Israel and the Jews entails, as did the numerous threats and insults directed at our side by both Arabs and Anglos.
Bay Area Women in Black, in particular, should be ashamed of themselves – we know that they read our material, and they’ve stood side-by-side with Arabs making the Nazi salute at many other events where promises of death and destruction were chanted by the masses (hello Ron/Ralph Berg, this means you).
JVP, seeing as it has a number of not-entirely- clued-in individuals, is perhaps excusable – their familiarity with Judaism and Hebrew is that poor that they cannot possibly be expected to have any greater facility with Arabic, and they are somewhat slow besides.
At about twenty to seven PM, the vast mob headed down Montgomery Street towards Market, obediently tailed by the SFPD, worried that windows might be broken or garbage cans overturned if they were not there to keep order. Quiet returned to a street filled with ripped signs and splintered poles, and Israeli and American flags were carefully rolled up, ready for the next lovefest.
FINAL NOTE: On our side, maybe as many as ten percent (but maybe not even five percent) were not Jewish. On the anti-Israel side, despite the huge number of politically correct Jews there, at least eighty percent were Gentile, of whom about half were not Arab. This tells me that Jews cannot rely on the Gentile world for safety and justice – there just aren’t very many people who give a damn about the Jews.
But you already knew that, didn’t you?
One more time: 120 to 3000. Twenty five to one. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers – the few, the proud, the Jew Faggots.
I love you guys.
Labels: Anarcho-Zionism, ARAB-UNITY, Berkeley cossacks, Israel, Jew, Jihad, Marxism, Muhammad, Muslim, Palestinian, Pestilence, San Francisco voice for Israel
posted by The back of the hill @ 12/31/2008 04:24:00 PM
January 2, 2009 at 5:53 am
Nick Bravo
roflmao! That’s one serious piece of propoganda! Just because someone doesn’t take israels side out of hand doesn’t make one a racist.
Also, jews and zionists aren’t the same thing. Many white males are zionists.
January 2, 2009 at 5:58 am
Nick Bravo
“And the “backwater people” comment is also out of line. If you said that about black people nobody would dispute the racism of the comment.”
How about foolish? unwise? Lacking in civility?
Perhaps I should clarify. Ahem!…jews who get warm fuzzies in regards to slaughtering people are backwater, trailer trash illiterates who need to be taught some manners.
What does jewish trailer trash look like?
January 2, 2009 at 8:45 am
Carson Park Ranger
“No where did JP write or imply ‘the world hates Isrealis’ …6:18 gives you some face saving suggestions but the honorable thing to do would be to acknowledge you have antisemitic biases…”
Not-a-Native obviously missed the dozens of posts in which “Jewish Person” informed my inference. “Antisemitic biases”? Not-a-Native knows nothing about me, but lack of knowledge never stops him from opining.
January 2, 2009 at 9:01 am
Jewish Person
NAN: Anti-semites are inherently cowardly. They NEVER acknowledge their bigotry and will always seek to “justify” it with additional bigotry. They are never far removed from a racist tirade.
Saddest of all are the few Jews who have internalized the anti-semitic cliches and join the anti-semites in condemning Israel for defending itself. Then comes the loud, public condemnation of Israel’s very right to exist. Of course, this cowardly posture fools nobody; the Jew who seeks to destroy his own people is loathed all the more. See above.
January 2, 2009 at 9:40 am
Lodgepole
Another self appointed expert.
January 2, 2009 at 9:49 am
Nick Bravo
I am not anti-semite. I am Anti-zionist. I highly doubt most of you here understand the difference since you make it clear in post after post that the vast majority of you are not qualified to think.
Besides, I’ve better things to do than type words for people who can barely read, much less understand what they’re reading.
January 2, 2009 at 9:54 am
Carson Park Ranger
No, “Jewish Person,” the “saddest of all” are those who defend Israel, or any other cause, whether it is right or wrong.
By the way, your “internalized” self-hating Jews shtick belongs in a museum.
January 2, 2009 at 10:13 am
Eric Kirk
I am not anti-semite. I am Anti-zionist.
Then why do you make comments which generalize about the entire people?
January 2, 2009 at 10:14 am
Eric Kirk
I just heard Rabbi Naomi Steinberg speak eloquently on the issue on Thank Jah. I didn’t get to hear the earlier part of the show, but it’s probably archived by now.
January 2, 2009 at 10:24 am
Lefty
Not qualified to think? What are the qualifications to think? Hmm…wish I was qualified cuz I think I liked you better when you were drinking wine on Utube.
Just what are those better things you have to do Nick.
Perhaps your working hard to bring understanding and peace between all people. Sure gonna miss your enlightening posts.
January 2, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Joe Blow
Eric Kirk says:
Your actions, defined in the quote above, continue to legitimize and justify my December 18th blog statement:
January 2, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Firenze
Like anyone cares what you said on December 18th…
January 2, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Jewish Person
CPR: Hamas has rocketed Israel virtually every single day since Israel withdrew from Gaza. Is that OK with you?
Yes or No?
January 2, 2009 at 5:38 pm
another point of view
Maybe if Israel stopped prohibiting the Palestinians from having decent access to necessary medical supplies and having freedom of movement, they might not have broken the cease fire. I don’t condone their actions, but they have reasons for putting themselves in the position to be retaliated against in such a harsh manner. Israel has so much more fire power than the Palestinians and they know that. If you know a bigger bully could easily kick your ass, would you willingly go picking a fight unless you had a really good reason. Personally, I avoid fights of any kind, but I also don’t have anyone depriving me of a decent life.
Just because Israel withdrew from Gaza, it doesn’t meant they haven’t been messing with the Palestinians.
January 2, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Eric Kirk
If you know a bigger bully could easily kick your ass, would you willingly go picking a fight unless you had a really good reason.
You’re applying a reasoning which does not apply to the intensity of the conflict in question. Yes, they would risk, even take their own lives, just to kill Israelis. They have done it and will continue to do it, whether Israel loosens their hold or tightens it.
But unfortunately, these bombings are so extensive that they’ll create yet another generation of the same. It’s a cycle and the parties to the conflict can’t break out of it on their own. The peace process offered some hope until 8 years ago, and it was swiftly and totally abandoned and has been for the duration.
January 2, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Nick Bravo
No Lefty, I’m not done with this thread or this blog. However, I work work 40 hrs a week (graveyard shift) and am trying to find a career path which I will enjoy and make a great living at. I’m not a trust fund hippie baby like many of you, nor am I happy being poor.
I need a bigger more intelligent audience. Thus I will be spending less time here, it really is a waste of my time casting pearls before blind swine.
January 2, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Anonymous
I hear CPR (Coalition for Property Rights) is looking for a new executive director, Nick. You should apply.
January 3, 2009 at 12:08 pm
middle child
I have to agree with Carson Park Ranger that it is sad to watch people otherwise sensitive to the cause of social justice giving Israel a pass on its behavior toward the Palestinians. Israel absolutely has a right to defend herself from rocket fire but killing hundreds of innocent people trapped in their impoverished and desperate neighborhoods is immoral and self-defeating. Israel is better than this. Creative and humane solutions must exist. This policy of attrition: we’ll kill hundreds of Palestinians for every Jew killed is sickening to all that hope for peace and can do nothing but further erode Israel’s standing in the world community.
January 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Jewish Person
“killing hundreds of innocent people trapped in their impoverished and desperate neighborhoods…”
…in which launching pads for missiles are set up with the full support of everyone in the neighborhood.
January 3, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Eric Kirk
…in which launching pads for missiles are set up with the full support of everyone in the neighborhood.
We don’t know that everyone in the neighborhood supported them. Unfortunately, they’re caught between the choices of being shot by Hamas or bombed by the IDF. They probably don’t expect to live long either way.
January 3, 2009 at 2:38 pm
middle child
Wow J.P. Thanks for setting me straight on that. Just how big a piece of your humanity did you have to abdicate to get such crystal clear convictions? So you get to treat all Palestinians as enemy combatants, how murderously convenient.
January 3, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Jewish Person
So half a million innocent, peace loving Palestinians are “coerced” into attending Hamas rallies–where everyone screams for Jewish blood–for hours?
January 3, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Eric Kirk
JP – it’s usually a small minority who scream for blood. The Palestinian people are much more diverse than apparent through media coverage. There have been plenty of exchanges where Israelis have visited Palestinians in their homes and will say much more in private than they will in public. I can post some links to sources about these exchanges a little later on. Rabbi Naomi Steinberg talked about it briefly on Thank Jah yesterday morning at the end of the show. It’s archived at http://www.kmud.org.
January 3, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Jewish Person
“Just how big a piece of your humanity did you have to abdicate to get such crystal clear convictions?”
Ask yourself that question. You have seen missiles fired into Israel every day for two years. But you still manage to blame Jews for defending themselves.
January 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Nick Bravo
Both israelis and palestinians have done horrific things to themselves and each other. Let’s be intellectually honest and lose teh double standard!
January 4, 2009 at 8:23 am
Lefty
Hey Nick, no trust fund baby here. I worked worked my 40 hours, admittedly day shift, and now I sleep when you work at the gas station/mini mart. Good luck with your dream there Nick. Nice that your boss lets you blog all night. Wait, maybe your a night watchman with a blackberry, am I close Nick?
Anyway I was just kidding about missing you. I wouldn’t. Besides you won’t stop posting here because there are too many of us blind swine for you to ignore and you know that as long as you ride on Eric’s’ coattails and don’t piss him off you will have fodder for your insensitive attacks in perpetuity!!
Still waiting for you to post the qualifications to think. It’s more that just breathing huh?
One more question Nick, If some nuts from Fickle Hill started lobbing Rockets down at your home in the bottoms what would you do? Would you want your government to do something to protect you?
January 4, 2009 at 10:40 am
middle child
JP, Both you and I support Israel’s right to defend herself. Where I have trouble with your view is that you believe the Palestinians deserve whatever horrors they’ve already suffered and yet await them in this conflict. It is your dehumanization I find disturbing. I am not an expert on Middle East politics but I pay attention and try to triangulate my news sources the best that I can. The one thing that I’ve learned in my lifetime is that dehumanization is the core of evil in human relationship. Your blanket support of all things Israel and your equal condemnation of the Palestinian people flirts obscenely with that dehumanization.
January 4, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Jewish Person
“I am not an expert on Middle East politics…”
I am. I have to be. My family is there; it’s life or death for us.
Where was your condemnation of the rain of Hams rockets into Israel over the past few years? If you had spoken up, we might not have had to go back into Gaza.
Hamas can end this at any time. All they have to do is stop firing missiles into Israel. Can you bring yourself to make that demand? If the answer, as I suspect is no, then kindly stop complaining when we Jews defend ourselves.
January 4, 2009 at 5:30 pm
another point of view
And what are you doing J.P to get Israel to stop the terrible embargo against the Palestinians… “Israel’s slow strangulation of Gaza through blockade has caused widespread suffering to the 1.5 million people of Gaza due to lack of food, electricity, water treatment supplies and medical equipment. It is a violation of humanitarian law and has been widely condemned around the world.” Where is your outrage there.
Have the oppressed become the oppressors?
January 4, 2009 at 6:39 pm
middle child
Beware of your self-proclaimed status my friend. Dehumanization is easily explained away by “experts”. And yes, I condemn Hamas’ rocket terror attacks against innocent civilians and always have.
January 4, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“…kindly stop complaining when we Jews defend ourselves.”
“Jewish Person” is no expert on Middle East politics or history.
Israel’s claim on “real estate” in the Middle East is no more legitimate than the claims by Palestinians (and perhaps many others).
Actions speak louder than words: Israel kills and maims a lot more Palestinians than Palestinians kill and maim Israelis. Israel cries that Hamas wants to push them into the ocean as their army mercilessly pounds trapped Palestinian civilians with accurate and lethal weaponry (compare with the Hamas rockets). They repeat the mantra that the Palestinians won’t recognize Israel, as Israeli bulldozers destroy the homes of Palestinians at gunpoint.
January 4, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Moviedad
Ralph Nader, in his letter to G.W. Bush, bravely illustrates what I think of the ferocious response by Israel:
“Your spokespeople are making much ado about the breaking of the six month truce. Who is the occupier? Who is the most powerful military force? Who controls and blocks the necessities of life? Who has sent raiding missions across the border most often? Who has sent artillery shells and missiles at close range into populated areas? Who has refused the repeated comprehensive peace offerings of the Arab countries issued in 2002 if Israel would agree to return to the 1967 borders and agree to the creation of a small independent Palestinian state possessing just twenty two percent of the original Palestine?”
For the full text of Ralph’s letter to Mr. Bush, visit:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/01-2
I do not blindly blame Israel. But this is like a full-grown professional fighter beating up a 12yr old kid who got a couple of punches in. And not only is this bully going to kill the kid, he is going to kill everyone the kid ever knew. and wipe the memory of his existence from the Earth.
January 4, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Jewish Person
It’s not a chess game. Those who attack the Jewish people–in Israel or anywhere in the world– can expect to suffer.
Again, Hamas can stop this at any time. If you want it to stop, you know who to call.
As for CPR, every group has it traitors. Grovel on, maybe you can learn to cringe on demand.
January 4, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Joe Blow
Is this your alter ego, Eric? Your pandering is touching.
January 4, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Nick Bravo
JP is a great example of someone turning into those he is fighting. The israelis have in essence become the nazis of the middle east.
Don’t believe me? Read Mein Kampf and then read statements made by the israeli leaders. Militarized youth, nationalistic paranoia in regards to their sovernty, a victim complex, etc.
Eric, be a man and leave this post up.
January 4, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“Those who attack the Jewish people…can expect to suffer.”
As punishment, they shall be forced to read the slavishly idiotic and reactionary comments of “Jewish Person.”
January 4, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Eric Kirk
Nick, I don’t believe you have read Mein Kampf.
January 4, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Nick Bravo
http://american-genocide.netfirms.com/html/americanstateterrorism/palestine/AmericanIsraeliTerrorism.html
January 4, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Moviedad
Now you’re getting a little scary. I suppose it is you, who gets to decide what constitutes an “attack” So now you threaten us, or warn us that we can “Expect to suffer.” You sound like a fanatic to me, and you are not doing your side of the argument any good. I do want it to stop. Tell me who to call! If I could save a life, I would make a thousand phone calls.
Your statements sends shivers down my back. I am so glad that I am not a Palestinian. I’m sure you would feel it is justified to murder me, and probably my kids too.
You represent one of the two major problems in this issue. It is never going to get resolved. You’re too proud.
January 4, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Nick Bravo
I have Eric. I’ve also read A Brave New World, Blacks Law Dictionary, Atlas Shrugged (3 times), Morals and Dogma, and many others that you probably haven’t.
I’d play “mine is bigger than yours” in regards to personal libraries but 90% of mine is in storage.
January 4, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Nick Bravo
If this blog had comment ratings I’d be giving MD’s last one 5 stars out of 5.
January 4, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Nick Bravo
Israel and Zionism are actually the worst enemies of Jews and Judaism that have ever existed. More insidiously deadly than the Nazis by far, Zionism is a spiritual cancer within the Jewish culture and religion. Evil outside you can only abuse and murder your physical body. The evil within will poison your soul.
“For believing Jews, Zionism is anathema to our religion, indeed to our very being. Real Jews do not want to take over Palestine. Real Jews wish to live in peace with all peoples, especially our Arab/Muslim cousins. Real Jews commiserate with the suffering of the Palestinian people at the hands of the satanic Zionist Reich.”
— Adiv Abramson
an orthodox Torah Jew
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1637.htm
Many orthodox rabbis have long worked to inform the world and fellow Jews of the fact that Zionism is a complete heresy against Torah Judaism. See Jews Against Zionism, JewsNotZionists.org, Neturei Karta USA and Neturei Karta – Jews United Against Zionism. Zionism is a total heresy against human decency itself, for that matter, regardless of religion.
There have also always been many decent secular Jewish people all over the world who are ashamed and horrified at the murderous, racist hypocrisy that has been perpetrated in their names by the terrorist state of Israel. See Jews Against the Occupation, NormanFinkelstein.com, Gush Shalom and “Israel’s State Terrorism”, by Dr. Lev Grinberg.
January 4, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Eric Kirk
More insidiously deadly than the Nazis by far,
Way out of line, and inaccurate. The fact is, Arabs living in Israel want to stay there because despite being second class citizens they are better off than they would be in any Arab country. I don’t think any group would have stayed in Nazi Germany given the opportunity.
As for the group calling itself “Neturei Karta,” they are actually a small offshoot of the original group. Many of the ultra-orthodox Jewish groups are anti-Zionist because they believe that the Messiah must arrive before Israel can truly be reconstituted, but even most of those groups see Neturei Karta as an extreme. They lost considerable credibility when they attended the Holocaust Denial conference in Iran.
January 4, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Nick Bravo
The fundamental military fact of life in Palestine is that the Israelis have absolutely all the high cards. It is tanks and Apache helicopter gunships vs. slingshots, literally, in many cases. A modern-day match between David and Goliath if ever there was one, and of course this time around, the Israelis are the brutish Goliath. (And may history repeat itself, right between the eyes.) But so far, Goliath is beating the hell out of David, and any Arab nation that would dare to rescue their Palestinian brothers and sisters would have to deal with the fact that Israel has three submarines armed with ballistic missiles that have nuclear warheads. On top of that, they’re backed up by The World’s Lone Remaining Superpower. Internationally, Israel is like a snotty little brat in the schoolyard who can push everybody around because he’s backed up by the biggest bully on the block.
It’s about as unequal a contest as it could possibly be, and yet the Zionist-controlled mass-media always presents it as if it was almost even. Every Palestinian suicide attack simply hands helpful propaganda to the bogus “news” media, and hands the Israelis a blank check to butcher three times as many Palestinian men, women and children, to deport more innocent Palestinians, to arrest, imprison and torture hundreds more Palestinians, to bulldoze yet more Palestinian homes as old women cry in despair.
January 4, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Nick Bravo
But by far the most important thing is this: a suicide attack might kill somebody who is innocent. A precious little Jewish child is innocent, as is a precious little Palestinian child. Obviously many beautiful human beings of all ages and every culture in the Middle East are innocent. Murdering and crippling innocent people has been the trademark of the Israelis from the beginning. No good can come from lowering oneself to their level. As a nation, the Palestinians are much braver, they are psychologically stronger, more resilient, enduring and tougher by far than the steadily decaying Israelis. I think the Palestinians are capable of seizing the moral high ground too. If they did, they would enjoy a spiritual nourishment more powerful than all the evil weapons in the world.
January 4, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Nick Bravo
The similarities between the Nazis and the Zionist Israelis are remarkable. Psychologist Kevin MacDonald, in The Culture of Critique, said that Zionism and Naziism are “mirror images” of each other. This is quite true. (See: “War Could Create Resentment Against Jews”, by Henry Makow, Ph.D.)
It’s amazing that the Israelis even have the gall to openly refer to their evil policies as “the Palestinian problem”, just as the Nazis referred to the Jews. Apparently, the Israelis feel so omnipotent that they no longer try very hard to hide the fact that they are essentially Jewish Nazis.
And now they’ve turned Gaza and the West Bank into a collection of huge Warsaw Ghettos.
January 4, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Nick Bravo
Palestine Chronicle
News and Commentary from Palestine, the Middle East, and Beyond…
http://palestinechronicle.com/
“Palestine Chronicle is an independent internet magazine, dedicated to addressing issues and offering perspectives rarely seen in mainstream western media. These issues include the plight and welfare of Palestinian refugees, as well as other displaced and oppressed people around the world.”
Palestine Media Watch
http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/index.asp
“The purpose of Palestine Media Watch is to fight anti-Palestinian bias in the US media and to call for giving Palestinian views greater room for expression.
“Palestine Media Watch is a grass-roots media watch group established on October 5, 2000 to help fight US media bias against Palestinians via direct action: writing letters and making phone calls. Our strength is in the commitment of our dedicated members — our gadflies — who day after day, through their informed letters to newspapers, work for a more balanced, more humane, and more informed portrayal of the Middle East conflict.”
January 4, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Carson Park Ranger
Occupied by a country that bitterly hates them, and “defended” on this blog (unbeknownst to them) by Nick Bravo and Stephen Lewis, the Palestinians are schlimazels.
January 4, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Nick Bravo
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/israeli_terror/
January 4, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Nick Bravo
I take great pleasure in intellectually posessing and dominating a lawyer. I would’ve thought it more difficult, but then again its not like Eric got his law degree at Stanford. Maybe Eric’s a Cooley grad?
It’s enjoyable to face such an opponent in battle, one becomes the predator the other the prey. To posess or be posessed? that is the question and I have certainly posessed Eric, greenjeans, esquan, and a couple others. But you Eric, the posession of your mind was to be Creme Brulei and ended up being more like Creme De Alpo.
January 4, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Eric Kirk
Kevin MacDonald is basically Nazi-lite. From Wikipedia:
A 2006 article in The Nation magazine reports that Macdonald’s 2004 Understanding Jewish Influence: A Study in Ethnic Activism “has turned MacDonald into a celebrity within white nationalist and neo-Nazi circles.”[17] Writing in the Journal of Church and State, Professor George Michael noted that MacDonald’s work “has been well received by those in the racialist right, as it amounts to a theoretically sophisticated justification for anti-Semitism,” and that on the far right MacDonald “has attained a near reverential status and is generally considered beyond reproach”.[7]
A colleague of MacDonald’s, Martin Fiebert[18] criticized MacDonald for being cited by white supremacist, anti-semitic, and neo-nazi organizations.[19] The Southern Poverty Law Center criticized MacDonald for holding panels and working with Virginia Abernethy, a self-described “white separatist” and member of the white supremacist organization Council of Conservative Citizens which describes blacks as “a retrograde species of humanity” among other things[20] The SPLC also criticized MacDonald for publishing in, and receiving a 10,000 dollar grant from, the white nationalist publication The Occidental Quarterly.[20] In October 2004, he accepted the Jack London Literary Prize from The Occidental Quarterly, using the award ceremony as an occasion to argue for the need for a “white ethnostate” to maintain high racial birthrates. In his acceptance speech, he stated, “The best way to preserve ethnic interests is to defend an ethnostate — a nation that is explicitly intended to preserve the ethnic interests of its citizens.” According to MacDonald, one of the functions of such a state would be to exclude non-European immigrants who are attracted to the state by its wealth and prosperity. At the conclusion of his speech, he remarked, “The alternative faced by Europeans throughout the Western world is to place themselves in a position of enormous vulnerability in which their destinies will be determined by other peoples, many of whom hold deep historically conditioned hatreds toward them. Europeans’ promotion of their own displacement is the ultimate foolishness — an historical mistake of catastrophic proportions.”[21]
MacDonald testified in defense of convicted holocaust denier David Irving, where he alleged that the suppression of Irving’s work was “an example of Jewish tactics for combating anti-Semitism.”[20][22] MacDonald said he was an “agnostic” in regards to the Holocaust.[citation needed] MacDonald’s testimony caused a backlash among his colleagues.
MacDonald has an extensive following among white supremacists and neo-Nazis.[23] Former KKK leader, David Duke has praised MacDonald’s work on his webite[24] Neo-Nazi Victor Gerhard wrote in a 2003 E-mail exchange that MacDonald’s The Culture of Critique “is completely true; that to rail against blacks and Hispanics without mentioning Jews is like complaining about the symptoms and not the disease.”[20] When MacDonald won his award from the Occidental Quarterly, the ceremony was attended by David Duke; Don Black, the founder of white supremacist site Stormfront; Jamie Kelso, a senior moderator at Stormfront; and the head of the neo-Nazi National Vanguard, Kevin Alfred Strom.[20] In 2005, Kelso told the Occidental Report that he was meeting up with MacDonald to conduct business. MacDonald is also featured in the Stormfront member Brian Jost’s anti-immigrant film “The Line in the Sand”, where he blamed Jews for destroying the European domination of America through their liberal pro-immigration views.[20]
Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center told the Los Angeles Times, “Not since Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ have anti-Semites had such a comprehensive reference guide to what’s ‘wrong with Jews.’ His work is widely advertised and touted on white supremacist websites and sold by neo-Nazi outfits like National Vanguard Books, which considers them ‘the most important books of the last 100 years.’ “[19]
January 4, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Eric Kirk
And as to recognition from his peers.
In late 2007 the Cal State Long Beach Psychology Department began the process of formally dissociating itself from MacDonald’s views on Judaism, race, and the propagandistic use of his work by neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups.[6] The department’s move to dissociate followed a discussion of Macdonald’s December forum presentation at meeting of the department’s advisory committee that concerned his ethics and methodologies.[6] Late in 2006, a report issued by the SPLC after an on-campus investigation labeled his work antisemitic and neo-Nazi propaganda, and described increasing concern about Macdonald’s views by CSULB faculty members (see above).[6]In an e-mail sent to the college’s Daily Forty-Niner newspaper, MacDonald noted that he had already pledged not to teach about race differences in intelligence as a requirement for teaching his psychology class, and expressed that he was “not happy” about the dissociation. The newspaper also reported that in the e-mail, Macdonald confirmed that his books contained what the paper described as “his claims that the Jewish race was having a negative effect on Western civilization.”[6]
In an April 28, 2008 statement, the CSULB anthropology department noted that it had no wish to interfere with Macdonald’s First Amendment rights. However, it noted in the statement that “we have the right, if not the obligation, to denounce his writings on race, ethnicity and intelligence that promote intolerance, as not only inaccurate, but as professionally irresponsible and morally untenable.”[35]
But I’m sure he’s just a victim of yet another grand Jewish conspiracy. Am I right?
January 4, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Nick Bravo
Yes eric, just hysterically scream “RACIST” anytime anyone criticizes the israeli government. One nutjob OBVIOUSLY negates EVERYONE who criticizes one jew on ANYTHING! Yes, the jews are a perfect people who always do perfect and good things ALL THE TIME! They can do NO WRONG!
*rolls eyes*
January 4, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Nick Bravo
No, Eric there’s nuts in every group. just look at david cobb and the green party.
January 4, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Eric Kirk
I knew it. Another Jewish conspiracy. Was it the Rothchilds this time, or the Illuminati itself?
January 4, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Eric Kirk
No, Eric there’s nuts in every group.
The point is that you quoted one such nut for your theory that Jews have the same psychology as Nazis. The Nazis love the guy, and for good reason.
January 4, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Nick Bravo
No ERIC! Stay with the subject matter! the assumption that I am challenging is that the jews are perfect people. They’re NOT. The other assumption is that they have the right to attack the palestinins and that its all the fault of the palestinians. Its NOT.
You’re making up in absurdity for your lack of intellectual honesty!
January 4, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Eric Kirk
Here’s the Southern Poverty Law Center report on MacDonald. But I guess they’re part of the conspiracy too?
MacDonald’s academic career was sailing nicely along, and he was awarded a CSULB Distinguished Faculty Scholarly and Creative Activities Award in 1995. But MacDonald’s anti-war experiences haunted him, and he later told New Times LA journalist Tony Ortega that he had come to realize that that was when his fixation on Jews developed. Noticing many of fellow activists were Jewish, MacDonald developed his first inkling that Jews are compelled to challenge traditional American and Western ideals. He came to the conclusion that Jews take over political and cultural movements and front them with unsuspecting, token gentiles — just the way MacDonald felt he was treated while protesting the Vietnam War.
In the 1980s, MacDonald started reading up on Jews, trying to determine the reasons behind what he saw as their lockstep liberalism and hatred of all things Western. His first effort, the first book in his trilogy on the Jews, was the 1994 publication of A People that Shall Dwell Alone: Judaism as a Group Evolutionary Strategy, which was published by Praeger Press and came out just after MacDonald was awarded his full professorship. Today, most of MacDonald’s publishing is about Jews and the evils of the liberal immigration policies they support.
January 4, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Nick Bravo
We’re NOT talking about macdonald! We’re talking about the jews being just as human as everyone else. and capable of violence and hate just like everyone on this planet.
January 4, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Anonymous
This isn’t about MacDonald. This is about the slaughter of over 1,000 Palestinian civilians in the last 9 days.
Over ELEVEN dead Israelis, none of whom were killed by the students gunned down at their own university, or the little girls living peaceably in their homes.
January 4, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Nick Bravo
and don’t even start with the illuminati crap! Stay focused! Swear to gawd talking to you is like dealing with a heavily caffinated ADD child!
January 4, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Eric Kirk
You quoted MacDonald Nick. If you’re going to quote Nazis, live by it.
Note his associations.
Whether or not administrators know about it, the fact is that MacDonald does use the work of notorious race scientists — including that of J. Philippe Rushton, a Canadian academic who argues that penis and brain size (and thus intelligence) are inversely related — as course material. (Rushton argues that blacks, on average, have larger genitalia and smaller brains than whites.)
Guess which group that one’s aimed at?
January 4, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Nick Bravo
Using one quote to prove a point doesn’t mean I ascribe to an ideaology. I know there’s no link between physical porportions of the body and intelligence.
Maybe we should argue whether or not jews are better people than the palestinians because of brain size? or nationality? or religion? or customs? or how the brush their teeth in the morning.\
POINT being Eric, for the jews to claim superiority over the palestinians is just as RACIST as hitler claiming superiority over einstein.
January 4, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Nick Bravo
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts01022009.html
You may find paul roberts piece on counterpunch interesting eric.
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
On the last day of the old year in CounterPunch, two Israelis, Jeff Halper who heads the Israeli peace movement ICAHD and Neve Gordon who is chairman of the department of politics and government at Ben-Gurion University, asked, “Where’s the Academic Outrage Over the Bombing of a University in Gaza?”
“Not one of the nearly 450 presidents of American colleges and universities who prominently denounced an effort by British academics to boycott Israeli universities in September 2007 have raised their voice in opposition to Israel’s bombardment of the Islamic University of Gaza earlier this week,” report Halper and Gordon. They note that Columbia University president Lee C. Bollinger, who has in the past ignorantly insulted Islamic representatives, “has been silent.”
It is the goyim moralists who are silent, not the Jews. It is the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, not the goyim media, that provides reports of Israel’s abuse of Palestinians. Gideon Levy’s “The Neighborhood Bully Strikes Again” was published in Haaretz (29 December), not in the goyim press. Levy’s words–“Once again, Israel’s violent responses, even if there is justification for them, exceed all proportion and cross every red line of humaneness, morality, international law and wisdom”–are not words that can appear in American print or TV media. Such words, printed in Israeli newspapers, never reach the goyim.
The extent of Americans’ ignorance is breathtaking. Israel has the Palestinians jammed into tightly controlled ghettos known as Gaza and the West Bank. With Egypt’s help, Israel controls the inflows of food, medicines, water, and energy into Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza are not permitted to enter Israel or Egypt. Last week a humanitarian ship bringing food and medicine was rammed by Israeli gunboats and turned away.
In the West Bank Palestinians are walled off from their fields, jobs, medical care, education, water, and from one another by endless checkpoints, roads for “Jews only,” walls, barbed wire, and machine gun towers. Palestinians are being evicted from their towns house by house, block by block.
Israel’s slow theft of Palestine is illegal under international law but protected by US “diplomacy.”
The Palestinians are no more of a threat to Israel than Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were a threat to the Nazi state. Yet, everywhere in America–Congress, the executive branch, the print and TV media, the universities, evangelical Christian institutions–there is the belief that Israel is on the verge of annihilation by Palestinian terrorists. This ignorance, so carefully cultivated by the Israel Lobby, turns genocidal aggression into self-defense.
It fools Americans, but it doesn’t fool Israelis. The Israelis have always known that “self-defense” is a cloak for a Zionist policy of territorial expansion. The policy is controversial within Israel. Many Israelis object, just as many Americans object to President Bush’s illegal wars and violations of US civil liberties. Many Israelis give voice to their moral conscience, but they are overwhelmed by vested interests.
Karl Marx declared morality to be merely a mask for vested interests. The writings of Marx and Engels are scornful of good will and moral ideals as effective forces in history. The Israeli state epitomizes Marx’s doctrine that power alone is the effective force.
Many American conservatives share the Israeli state’s belief in the efficacy of power. Conservatives who turned against Bush’s wars did so because the US was not brutal enough. They turned away from Bush’s long inconclusive wars in the way that fans desert a losing team.
Americans used to say that “the pen is mightier than the sword,” but this hasn’t been the case for US and Israeli aggression. The success the two regimes have had in instilling fear into their populations is part of the explanation for the impotence of morality. Another part of the explanation is that vested interests are a powerful constraint on morality.
Consider the case of Lee Bollinger. Columbia University is dependent on Jewish money, faculty and students. If Bollinger were to take a stand against Israel’s mistreatment of the Palestinians, he would be denounced as an anti-semite. Presidents of competitor universities would not come to his defense. They would pile on in hopes of recruiting Columbia’s top faculty and students and redirecting the flow of financial resources from Columbia to themselves.
An American newspaper or TV network that took a stand against Israel’s abuse of Palestinians would be confronted with an advertising boycott organized by AIPAC. American politicians who criticize Israel go down to defeat by Israel Lobby money.
Hegel gave too much emphasis to ideas, Marx too much to material interests. Both forces operate in the world. There are times in history when revolutionary ideas shatter material interests. Other times the two coexist in a balance of power. In other times material interests prevail over morality.
We are living in the latter time. Financial interests, the military-security complex, and the Israel Lobby are the powers that rule America. They are buttressed by neoconservatives and Christian Zionists and by the patriotic hubris that America is the main force for good operating in the world. The evils America commits are dismissed as necessary to the service of good. The destruction of Iraq, for example, is justified as “bringing freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people.”
A number of commentators, including myself, predict a decline in America’s economic power. As this occurs, Israel will have to abandon its policy of violence. With the accumulated hatred that its policies have fomented, Israel will be vulnerable.
The world will need to remember that although Israel is a Jewish state, it is a state whose policies many Jews find objectionable, just as a majority of American Jews oppose President Bush’s wars of aggression in the Middle East and his unconstitutional policies at home. We must not confuse Israel’s Zionist government with world Jewry, just as we must not confuse the American people with the war criminals in the Bush Regime.
Consider, who do you trust with your civil liberties, the US Department of Justice or the ACLU’s phalanx of Jewish attorneys?
We must avoid the mistake that was made by blaming the German people for Hitler. It was the aristocratic German military that tried to remove Hitler. In contrast, Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi blocked the attempt to impeach George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Pelosi is a discredit to California, but shall we blame all of America for Pelosi’s defense of war criminals? How can we do so when US Rep. Dennis Kucinich courageously read out the articles of impeachment on the House floor?
Are all Americans guilty because Kucinich did not prevail?
January 4, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Nick Bravo
Paul makes an important distinction. The people in most cases do not run the gov’t. the gov’t of any country usually does whatever it feels like.
When will the israeli population stand up to their corrupt murderous government?
January 4, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, then let’s discuss your link to a Holocaust denier who lobbied to ban the movie Schindler’s List in Canada.
Nick, you really should research the people you quote. While I don’t agree with the hate speech laws in the countries where he has been prosecuted, the fact of the matter is that the guy is bad news.
In the 1970s, Zündel founded a small publishing house called Samisdat Publishers. Samisdat initially produced UFO-related books, some of them written pseudonymously by Zündel. Within a few years it began disseminating Nazi sympathizer literature, including Zündel’s The Hitler We Loved and Why, Richard Verrall’s Did Six Million Really Die?, and works by Malcolm Ross.
By the early 1980s, Samisdat Publications had grown into a worldwide distributor of Nazi and neo-Nazi posters, audiotapes, and memorabilia, as well as pamphlets and books devoted to Holocaust denial and Allied and Zionist “war crimes”, claiming a mailing list of 29,000 in the United States alone. Advertisements for Samisdat Publications were purchased in well-known reputable American magazines and even comic books. West Germany became another large market, in violation of their Volksverhetzung (incitement of the masses) laws preventing Holocaust denial and dissemination of Nazi and neo-Nazi material, going so far as to send mass mailings to every member of the West German Bundestag (parliament).
In December 1980, the West German Federal Ministry of Finance told the Bundestag that between January 1978, and December 1979, “200 shipments of right-wing extremist and neo-Nazi content including books, periodicals, symbols, decorations, films, cassettes, and records” had been intercepted entering West Germany; these shipments “came overwhelmingly from Canada.” On April 23, 1981, the West German government sent a letter to the Canadian Jewish Congress, confirming that the source of the material was Samisdat Publishers.
From 1981 to 1982 Zündel had his mailing privileges suspended by the Canadian government on the grounds that he had been using the mail to send hate propaganda, a criminal offence in Canada. Zündel then began shipping from a post office box in Niagara Falls, New York, until the ban on his mailing in Canada was lifted in January 1983.
Zündel was a vocal supporter of alleged Nazi war criminals living in Canada. During the trial of Imre Finta, Zündel was confronted outside the courthouse by a Holocaust survivor. Zündel told the survivor “Listen, yeah, we are gonna get you yet, don’t you worry.”[18]
In 1997, Zündel told an interviewer from an Israeli newspaper that “[t]he Jews of the world have a Holocaust coming, and all the gruesome lies that they have told about people like Germans during the Second World War—all those grotesque Spielberg-like distortions of what really took place—one day will come back to haunt Jews, and I want to not be around when that happens.”[19][20]
Nick, I quote people whom I respect. Whose views and thoughts have impacted my own. The people and works I quote are a reflection on me and what I believe. If I have problems with the people or ideas I quote I either state it outright, or it should be obvious by the context. And the problem is that your generalizations about Jews and your ignorance about Jewish culture and history reflect an influence by these white supremacists. Really, you should expose yourself to a broader range of views. You had a great opportunity at HSU which apparently you squandered.
January 4, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Nick Bravo
We’ve been over that. Now read the counterpunch article. and believe me I already know lawyers quote what is USEFUL to their arguement! NOT ones they respect. Don’t pull the “i’m a noble savage….errr…lawyer” routine because no ones buying it!
January 4, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Eric Kirk
I’m glad you read Counterpunch Nick. And I don’t have any problems with that article, although I don’t agree with everything in it. I often disagree with Cockburn and his writers, but it’s usually a good read. And I don’t agree with some of Israel’s defenders who say he’s anti-Semitic, although his choice of language has at times been counterproductive.
And yes, Jews across the country are slamming Israel and begging the government to stop the attacks. Rabbi Michael Lerner is one of them. You don’t have to consult anti-Semites for criticism of Israel.
January 4, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Eric Kirk
I hope you’ve learned something Nick. Dig a little. Go through all those bookmarked links Stephen sent you, and research them before you cite them again.
January 4, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Nick Bravo
You said “And the problem is that your generalizations about Jews”
I said “Both israelis and palestinians have done horrific things to themselves and each other. Let’s be intellectually honest and lose teh double standard!”
I’ve also stated that oftentimes the “people” aren’t responsible for the behavior of their govt. Yes, I’m anti-zionist but so are many jewish people.
I haven’t generalized! You’ve done everything you can to make me look bad. You are intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt counselor! Perhaps you should take an ethics class.
January 4, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Eric Kirk
You’ve also referred to Jews as a “backwater people” Nick. And you’ve made other comments aimed not at Zionism in particular, but at Judaism in general. And given the apparent influences on you, I can see why. I’m simply asking you to consider some other views.
January 4, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Nick Bravo
“And yes, Jews across the country are slamming Israel and begging the government to stop the attacks. Rabbi Michael Lerner is one of them. You don’t have to consult anti-Semites for criticism of Israel.”
Yet, our government and media refuses to acknowledge that there are jews who are anti-zionist. The average american only hears “all jews all perfect all agree”. never do they even think to research the real issues and for you to proclaim that the jews as a whole are “PERFECT” and “CHOSEN” is utterly absurd on so many levels that I have to seriously question your integrity.
January 4, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Eric Kirk
What our government acknowledges is irrelevant. As to what the media is acknowledging, I can’t really say because I haven’t been following it. The left media has acknowledge it. As does the Israeli media.
There are Palestinians who oppose the Hamas attacks. Are their views being covered in the Arab media? Perhaps. I don’t know. I doubt it.
January 4, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Nick Bravo
So now I’m on moderation? Silencing me only makes my points stronger.
January 4, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Nick Bravo
david cobb
January 4, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Eric Kirk
ever do they even think to research the real issues and for you to proclaim that the jews as a whole are “PERFECT” and “CHOSEN” is utterly absurd on so many levels that I have to seriously question your integrity.
Don’t get started Nick. I no of no Jews who consider themselves a “perfect” people, and the “chosen” concept is greatly misunderstood and taken out of context by your sources or you wouldn’t be using the argument in this context. It’s a concept as misunderstood as “Papal infallibility.” Both have very specific theological contexts. Even taking the Old Testament quotes in context, they were chosen to accept the law from God because of their descendancy of legend, not because they are considered superior. And only a handful of isolated Jewish traditions asserts any superiority or exclusivity with God in modern times. In most traditions, the phrase refers not to a privilege, but a responsibility, focusing on Isaiah 56:7 – “For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.” The idea is simply that God has moved through them, for the benefit of the whole world.
Narcissistic maybe from an ecumenical point of view, but hardly unique when it comes to religion.
But whatever your feelings about the theology, the key point is that the phrase is intended to indicate that they were chosen to accept a covenant with God, not to be the “perfect” or superior race. Nobody believes that, and it’s a classic and bloody strawman which has been used by, well, you know.
January 4, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Nick Bravo
s-t-e-p-h-e-n
January 4, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Eric Kirk
You’re not on moderation Nick. You’re still young. You can learn something.
January 4, 2009 at 11:52 pm
Nick Bravo
They say one thing but believe another. There are jews who consider themselves perfect people and incapable of wrong.
and why must I spell out s-t-e-p-h-e-n-s name for it to show up???
January 4, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Eric Kirk
Oh, you used one of the magic words. I don’t want to let the one comment come through because you attack Stephen and he can’t come here to defend himself. In fact, I shouldn’t have mentioned him either. I slipped up. Sorry.
January 4, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Nick Bravo
Your comment is awaiting moderation. is what it says when i type s-t-e-p-h-e-n-s name without the dashes.
January 4, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Anonymous
No wonder Eric flipped out, that Roberts article cites the ACLU, we all know Eric has a bug up his butt about them!
January 4, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Eric Kirk
Yep.
January 4, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Nick Bravo
no my comment about s-t-e-p-h-e-n was that I don’t talk to him, he’s on the level of david cobb as far as i’m concerned.
Why won’t you let him here to defend himself? Does he scare you? Do the facts he speaks scare you? If not why moderate s-t-e-p-h-e-n?
January 4, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Nick Bravo
but isn’t s-t-e-p-h-e-n a jew? so by silencing him it would make you a jew hating racist. would it not?
January 4, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Eric Kirk
No wonder Eric flipped out, that Roberts article cites the ACLU, we all know Eric has a bug up his butt about them!
I flipped out? And the article compliments the ACLU and its Jewish lawyers. Did you read it, or just skim it?
January 5, 2009 at 12:00 am
Nick Bravo
Skimmed it, just like most lawyers do with legal documents.
January 5, 2009 at 12:00 am
Eric Kirk
Nick, I’ve explained in great detail why I no longer let him post here. In fact, he was the primary motivation for the switch to WordPress. It’s explained in detail on the old site. Nobody goes to his blog so he takes over mine. And he has all the time in the world to do so.
And no. Stephen isn’t Jewish. But if he was, I’d still have excluded him.
January 5, 2009 at 12:20 am
Nick Bravo
alex jones bashes israel!
January 5, 2009 at 12:22 am
Eric Kirk
Oh good grief! I’m going to bed Nick.
January 5, 2009 at 12:37 am
Nick Bravo
Good night. It’s been fun baiting you.
January 5, 2009 at 5:11 am
Nick Bravo
Maybe I should take over THIS blog! :0
January 5, 2009 at 6:44 am
Nick Bravo
Eric! when will you have alex jones on your show?
January 5, 2009 at 6:46 am
Nick Bravo
Wakey wakey Eric! I trust you had a good nights sleep. I on the other hand have been up all plotting the take over of this blog!
January 5, 2009 at 6:52 am
Nick Bravo
american media bias exposed!
January 5, 2009 at 6:54 am
Nick Bravo
oh, I almost forgot!
Seig Heil S-T-E-P-H-E-N!
January 5, 2009 at 7:33 am
Anon
“It’s been fun baiting you.”
I wish you a victory like this every day.”
January 5, 2009 at 8:24 am
Nick Bravo
January 5, 2009 at 12:00 am
Eric Kirk
Nick, I’ve explained in great detail why I no longer let him post here. In fact, he was the primary motivation for the switch to WordPress. It’s explained in detail on the old site. Nobody goes to his blog so he takes over mine. And he has all the time in the world to do so.
And no. S-t-e-p-h-e-n isn’t Jewish. But if he was, I’d still have excluded him.
January 5, 2009 at 10:49 am
Nick Bravo
Jewish Person, I saw this vid and thought of you.
January 5, 2009 at 11:41 am
Anonymous
What a glorious meltdown from Eric!
First he tries to simultaneously celebrate the demise of the unconstitutional and sloppily drafted Measure T and defend DavidCobb’s takeover attempt against the Eureka progressive community — only to be slapped down by an avalanche of facts, testimony and even inside documents from the state Green Party showing how things have fallen apart underCobb’s rule.
Then he tries to prop up the genocidal policies of the rightwing warmongers ruling Israel, and especially prop up Obama’s lame lack of anything substantive to say — to be upstaged and disproved by none other than Nick Bravo, who’s clearly making a comeback attempt in the new year.
With the lame local political “leadership” we’re stuck with, why not Bravo? He doesn’t seem to suffer from a lack of straightforwardness.
January 5, 2009 at 11:43 am
Anonymous
Oh, and usually CPR and I are at each other’s throats, but I’m man enough to admit when he’s got it absolutely right, as he has in speaking out against Israeli brutality.
Thanks Joel, pissing off Not A Native and the rest of these fake left todies is a good turn for you. Keep it up.
January 5, 2009 at 4:09 pm
S.C.
How can any thinking, feeling human condone what is being done in Gaza today? The murder of children, international human rights workers, medical personnel and the sadistic deprivation of care for those injured goes on as we sleep. Israel’s government is no better than the Bush Regime for setting modern day standards of cruelty and obscenity.
The euphoria of Obama’s election is wearing very thin.
January 5, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Not A Native
Eric, I listened to the KMUD show you referenced. FYI, The last caller was Naomi Wagner, not Steinberg. Her idea that individuals often can abide with each other while countries cannot is common in hostile situations.
But I think thats not a stable situation, always subject to incitement of some “incident”. Sort of explains why wars often are described as “breaking out”, as if the hostility and anger came from nowhere.
January 5, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Jewish Person
Do you condone the ongoing (including today) targeting of Israeli schools and homes by randomly aimed rockets from Gaza?
January 5, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Jewish Person
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/saul_singer/2009/01/israels_moral_high_ground.html
January 5, 2009 at 5:59 pm
anonymous
Hey Jp,
You should check out the comment section of that link you posted. Singer gets rightfully hammered by his readers for his irresponsible dismissal of Israel’s part in this mess. The guy is a shill.
January 5, 2009 at 7:15 pm
anonymous
Nick, are you familiar with the term Manic. You should be. How else to describe your behavior over the past hours? You’re all over the place, either as Nick Bravado or Anonymous 11:41 & 11:43, on this and every other thread on this blog. You’re headed for a crash. Maybe you are already sleeping it off. Your comments can be interesting until they exude desperation.
January 5, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Carson Park Ranger
Israel wants it both ways: to not recognize the elected Palestinian representatives (Hamas), and, at the same time to strike “deals” with Hamas under the duress of occupation and expect them adhere to agreements as if Hamas had governmental authority and control over factions.
January 5, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Early to bed
You’ve distorted the stated goals of the Israeli govt. Their goal is to eliminate Hamas. It’s a terrorist organization, sponsored by Iran. Without them a two state solution will go though followed by a separate peace treaty with Syria.
January 5, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Early to bed
As you may have noticed, Hamas has no friends. They took power after a vicious campaign of assassination, which targeted many fellow Palestinians. The Egyptians hate their guts too. During their brief term in power they have threatened everyone in sight, including Israel. Now it’s payback time and you won’t see anyone but Iran sending help.
Once we are rid of them there’s a slim chance the two state solution can work.
January 5, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Anonymous
An equivalent in Iraq would be that the US bombs civilian populations in response to armed attacks on US soldiers.
January 5, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Carson Park Ranger
Early-to-Bed pays very close attention as he watches Fox News, but I think that it’s past his bedtime.
January 5, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Early to bed
Actually, I got that from both The New York Times and The Jerusalem Post, both of which have been reporting on the positions of the various parties. Do attempt to get your facts straight before attempting to attack others.
January 5, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Nick Bravo
Anon 7:15 my last post was 10:49 am. I do not post anonymously for many reasons and I (unlike you apparently) have a life outside the humboldt blogosphere.
I suspect that many lefties in humboldt suffer from believeing that their little corner of the world is all there is. Some may even doubt the existence of places like arizona or florida. Maybe Anon 7:15 I’m not even in arizona. Maybe I’ve been living in harmony grove’s basement this whole time? Maybe you should see a shrink and get some pills for your paranoia before you start psychologizing others.
January 6, 2009 at 9:06 am
Eric Kirk
Nick, you’ve been posting anonymously on at least a couple of occasions. I won’t embarrass you by telling you how I know, but when you make a lot of posts I think it must be hard to keep track of them. You made the same mistake another local famous poster who does the same thing has made on occasion.
January 6, 2009 at 9:13 am
Nick Bravo
I admit to cut/paste from some sources which other anonymous’s have posted on. I will admit to knowing one person who posts anonymously here. I personally do not post here anonymously as that would reduce my credibility and my message is too important to play games with.
As far as IP addresses one can easily create dummy addresses as to throw people off trails.
Funny, you can’t undermine my facts so you attempt to impugne my character.
January 6, 2009 at 10:15 am
Carson Park Ranger
“I got that from both The New York Times and The Jerusalem Post”
Gosh,unbiased sources to be sure.
“You’ve distorted the stated goals of the Israeli govt. Their goal is to eliminate Hamas.”
The Palestinian electorate voted for Hamas, so the “stated goals” of the Israeli government is, apparently, to “eliminate” the Palestinian electorate.
January 6, 2009 at 10:24 am
Eric Kirk
Nick, it’s like this. If you don’t want to give yourself away, keep track of your anonymous comments so that when I respond to them, you don’t address my response. You might want to keep notes next to your keyboard.
January 6, 2009 at 10:34 am
Nick Bravo
LOL! Eric, can you not believe that people other than me are questioning you? Do you get it that you’re getting tag teamed to an extent?
If an anonymous says something that will help me illuminate an issue or bring up facts then I’ll do it. We’re not talking in a freaking vacuum, or would you prefer a Cone of Silence Mr. Smart?
January 6, 2009 at 10:42 am
Nick Bravo
New vid!!
January 6, 2009 at 10:46 am
Early to Bed
CPR I find it difficult to believe you can’t tell the difference between Fox News and the NYT. The Palestinian electorate voted for fascist thugs, just as the German electorate did in the early 30′s. By eliminating that government, Israel is doing the rest of the world a favor. Just as we did in the 30s…
January 6, 2009 at 10:49 am
Early to Bed
Make that “the Palestinian electorate IN GAZA only. And only after the opposition had been either murdered or driven out of Gaza.
Hamas’ then commenced to fire missiles at Gaza’s neighbor on a daily basis. Did you miss that?
January 6, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Anonymous
“The Palestinian electorate voted for fascist thugs, just as the German electorate did in the early ’30s”
And the Israeli electorate did the same.
January 6, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Anonymous
Both Fox and the New York Times lied to get us into this bipartisan war in Iraq which has slaughtered 1.5 million.
Again, I usually disagree with CPR on local politics, but on this point, we are in absolute agreement. Most decent people on this planet see right through the fog of cheap Israeli lies to cover up their war crimes.
Keep giving them hell, Joel.
January 6, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Early to Bed
Huh? The New York Times offers a diversity of opinions and their editorial position was decidedly opposed to the war. But I doubt you’ve ever read a copy.
As for the Israeli “war crimes,” where was your moral indignation when the rockets rained down on Israeli school kids day after day?
January 6, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Nick Bravo
both sides have committed warcrimes against the other.
January 6, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Carson Park Ranger
” … their editorial position was decidedly opposed to the war …”
Golly, if that’s true, i wonder why they placed all of Judith Miller’s bullshit stories on page one while the real journalism, was buried on the occasioned when it was published at all.
I read the Times, but I’m not proud of it like Early to Bed so obviously is.
“…where was your moral indignation when the rockets rained down on Israeli school kids day after day?”
I suppose that I was still pissed off about Palestinian kids who were killed by Israelis. What’s your point? Your moral outrage is better than mine? My body count is bigger than yours, so you lose on that point.
The Palestinians live under a brutal, miserable Israeli occupation day-in and day-out \, year-in and year-out with no hope of ever improving their lives. Why don’t we discuss that?
January 6, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, they do have some hope Carson. 8 years ago they had a peace deal where they were offered 98 percent of what they had been demanding for years. Their leader of the time didn’t want to be assassinated, so he pretty much backed out. The lack of initiative from our own outgoing regime didn’t help either. But if the Palestinians can shake Hamas, they’ll have their state.
January 6, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“But if the Palestinians can shake Hamas…”
Look who’s talking. You can’t even shake Nick Bravo.
January 6, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Early to Bed
The peace deal has been sitting there for all to see for decades. And for decades The Palestinian leadership has mindlessly sacrificed it’s own people and chosen war. Hopefuly, this time–after Hamas is defeated–it will be different.
CPR claims to have read the NYT but has somehow missed literally hundreds of passionately anti-war editorials as well as hundreds of critical dispatches from Iraq. Judith Miller’s dissenting voice–if that’s what it was; she has a different version–is an example of diversity, an uncomfortable concept for true believers and bigoted Jew baiters. For the rest of us, diversity of opinion is what makes a great newspaper.
January 6, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Eric Kirk
I’m getting close to the nuclear option.
January 7, 2009 at 12:15 am
Anonymous
I think Mutually Assured Destruction would be the result, Eric. Your new nemesis is way smarter than Stephen. I’m sure he knows that he can sign up dozens of WordPress accounts using spoofed IPs and pelt you endlessly.
Then you’ll turn on auto-moderation, comments will stack up for hours and people will lose interest, and your blog will die, or linger on in some half-stunted, barely visited form. You know, like the Eureka Standard.
Heraldo has the advantage of being a hidden clique of actor-vists who take shifts. Eric can only stretch himself out so far.
January 7, 2009 at 12:19 am
Eric Kirk
I have powers you can only imagine.
January 7, 2009 at 6:02 am
Nick Bravo
Eric, The Palestinians live under a brutal, miserable Israeli occupation day-in and day-out \, year-in and year-out with no hope of ever improving their lives. Why don’t we discuss that?
And as you can see from my latest vid, I like Vlad the Impaler have no problem drinking the blood of my enemies.
January 7, 2009 at 6:09 am
Nick Bravo
I also think making youtube vids about erics blog and then sending links to other local blogs would also be effective.
Oh what fun!
January 7, 2009 at 7:56 am
Carson Park Ranger
“… years ago they had a peace deal where they were offered 98 percent of what they had been demanding for years.”
Golly Eric, that sounds awfully good! I’ll let your neighbor know that he’s welcome to storm into your house and occupy it. If he waits long enough, you’ll relent, under public pressure, and only ask for for 98% of your house back. Your neighbor will keep a narrow strip of hallway, so you’ll no longer be able to get from the bedroom to the bathroom, nor from the living room to the kitchen. Also,they can keep the well.
By the way, Israel suspended implementation of the Wye River Memorandum under Netanyahu, but somehow responsibility for the failure lies with the Palestinians.
Early to Bed might just as well stay in bed. The New York Times may be one of the better American papers, but there’s a reason that the rest of the world isn’t buying Israel/US bullshit. They read better newspapers. Judith Miller’s “dissenting” voice”? How did a “dissenting voice” get on to page one so regularly?
As for the unimaginative, and insultingly stupid “bigoted Jew baiters” comment, this is the trump card that supporters of Israel never fail to employ when they’ve become uncomfortable repeating their old canards.
January 7, 2009 at 8:41 am
Nick Bravo
“Their leader of the time didn’t want to be assassinated, so he pretty much backed out.”
so, the israelis were perfectly happy to threaten assasination if they didn’t get their way. How enlightened and moral of them. LOL!!!
January 7, 2009 at 9:47 am
Eric Kirk
Golly Eric, that sounds awfully good! I’ll let your neighbor know that he’s welcome to storm into your house and occupy it. If he waits long enough, you’ll relent, under public pressure, and only ask for for 98% of your house back. Your neighbor will keep a narrow strip of hallway, so you’ll no longer be able to get from the bedroom to the bathroom, nor from the living room to the kitchen. Also,they can keep the well.
Several points.
1. First of all, it’s not like Jews just showed up in 1948 and forced everybody else out. They had been buying up land from “Palestinians” (they called themselves “Jordanians” at the time, the Palestinian national identity really gelled afterwards) for decades and owned quite a bit of the land legitimately. At a certain point after numerous incidents of violence from both sides they claimed a sliver of the territory and declared themselves independent from Jordan. That’s not to say there weren’t plenty of Palestinians who still had land in the area and were adversely affected. And yes, I question whether even a majority in a region have the right to declare independence which might not be shared by the minority. This would certainly apply to the American Revolution where by some historical accounts the support for Britain at the start was about 1/3. Many of the Tories lost their land as well, and we’ve never returned it.
But that begs another point. Should we return all of the land in the western hemisphere to the Indian tribes? You first! Should we expel all of the current owners of property owned by Japanese Americans before World War II? Same timeline there. If we’re going to force the Jews to give Israel back to Jordan, should we then force all of the Europeans off of the lands owned by Jews prior to the Holocaust so we can repatriate them? What exactly is your plan for them? Greenland?
2. Israel isn’t going anywhere. Half a dozen wars should convince everybody of that. And there will be no right of return, at least not this generation. Maybe after a couple of generations of peace some kind of reparations can be worked out, but not while Palestinian militants are sending their children into Israeli teen clubs to kill themselves and everyone else. No other resistance has made that kind of demands of its own children. And unfortunately, the level of hatred of Palestinians has become so strong and nerves so rattled that it doesn’t take much to provoke a completely disproportionate response, and yes, the responses are invariably well out of proportion. But by now the Palestinians have to know that they aren’t going to obtain anything through violence. The militants do it as a matter of principle. They do it because they hate Jews as much as the Jews hate them. But at this point, everyone has to give up on the idea that Israel can be dismantled. It’s not going to happen. Forget about whether they have a moral right to be there. They’re there. And although they became a country relatively late in history, their method was no more brutal than any other nation in history, and considerably less than most including our own.
3. A state on the West Bank and Gaza is better than no state at all, and Arafat nearly had the agreement with all of the assurances. East Jerusalem was pretty much the only major sticking point, but even that lends itself to some solutions which could eventually have been addressed. But Arafat received threats from the militants who have killed any Palestinian leader who even hint at moderation in the past, including the individual who may have actually brought some level of peace many years ago had he been allowed to live.
4. My own turning point on the issue came a few years ago. It had been developing over the years, but the moment when I saw the West Bank residents cheering as Israeli prisoners had just been brutally murdered and one Palestinian man held up his hands with the blood on them as the crowd went wild, I pretty much gave up hope for any kind of repatriation. Some acts which are not justified by oppression. That was one among many, and the act itself was only just more terrifying than the crowd’s response. At that point I had a hard time moralizing to Israelis that they should let these people loose within Israel. Is this a situation of Israel’s making? Probably to a certain degree, and we can debate the extent, but basic innate instincts of self-preservation pretty much negate any support for the absolute right of return from even the most liberal of Israelis. And until the left can get beyond “that was tragic but…” it won’t have the moral authority to accomplish anything. Those acts, and every passive participant in them, required unqualified condemnation. It didn’t happen, and it was one of many messages to the Israeli people that they have to depend on themselves to protect their lives.
If the US government puts pressure on Israel, they will return to the table. But unless international left movements put pressure on the Palestinian leadership, by way of the threat of removal of moral and material support, the latter will not return to the table in a meaningful way. And it means we give up the whining about how they’re so oppressed and we just can’t comprehend their situation to make valid judgments about their actions. We can. Just as we’d condemn supporters of Pinochet or Samoza. In fact, left movements are really the only people who can have that effect. But we’re paralyzed by guilt and our own one-sided righteous indignation. And we’re not doing the Palestinians any good.
January 7, 2009 at 9:52 am
Nick Bravo
“First of all, it’s not like Jews just showed up in 1948 and forced everybody else out.”
FALSE! It had been over 1000 years since they had been there. Do not dare compare the revolutionary war to the crap happning in the mideast.
January 7, 2009 at 10:56 am
Jewish Person
Eric, That’s an attractive and rational argument. But…
100,000 Iranian young men have volunteered to become suicide bombers inside Israel. They’re serious about it.
Unfortunately, that kind of madness isn’t confined to Iran. You’ve seen (throughout this very thread) an utter contempt for Jews; a repeated refusal to condemn ANY attack on our communities and schools. You can count on such people to close ranks behind suicide bombers and justify their actions, while condemning Israel for defending herself–or even existing.
We Jews have seen this kind of hatred before. Then and now it came from the worst elements of the community. Those who work up the courage to come to Israel will learn that the price has gone up for attacking Jews.
January 7, 2009 at 3:54 pm
S.C.
I just heard on the INN Report on Free Speech TV that more Israelis have been killed by friendly fire since the occupation than by all the thousands of rockets launched into southern Israel in the past ten years. Israel has every right in the world to exist, but their rational for the occupation just lost all credibility.
January 7, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Nick Bravo
JP, the world no longer sees the isrealis as martyred victims. They are in fact cowardly bullies.
January 7, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Eric Kirk
Sorry Nick, but the most recent post was removed. You can generalize about Zionism or Israel to your heart’s content, but any remarks about what “the jew” does will be removed. You’ve got your own blog to post all the anti-Semitic rants you want. Not here. Neither you nor Stephen seems to be able to make the distinction between Jews and Zionism, which ironically tends to confirm some charges that attacks on Zionism and Israel are often code for something else.
January 7, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Carson Park Ranger
Eric, it’s too bad that you type so fast. Try to remember that some of us may feel obliged to actually read what you’ve written.
Number four stood out to me as, perhaps, the most intellectually feeble of your turgid, meandering opinions:
“My own turning point on the issue came…the moment when I saw the West Bank residents cheering as Israeli prisoners had just been brutally murdered…”
So your opinion was changed by a murderous, angry mob? Does the cold dispatching of Palestinians of all ages by the Israeli army meet with your approval? Does the quiet approval in Washington and Tel Aviv of daily repression and violence against Palestinians comfort you?
January 7, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Eric Kirk
See CPR, you’re suffering from the classic fallacy that criticism or condemnation of the acts of one side amounts to the approval of the other. It’s especially disconcerting when you know it’s not true. I’ve slammed not only the over-the-top Israeli actions as well as Washington’s silence in this time and the other.
And as I said, it wasn’t the only event which made me more sympathetic to the Israeli position. It was the last straw. If I’d been old enough to understand what happened at Munich in 1972, that might have been the act.
This wasn’t a crowd from a keg party which got out of hand. It was more than just “murderous.” It was the complete and callous abandonment of humanity. I would not want even one of those people living near me. Half of them would probably kill me for typing this.
And nothing about the situation comforts me.
January 7, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Carson Park Ranger
“This wasn’t a crowd from a keg party which got out of hand.”
Thanks for response. Fatuous and unoriginal, but mercifully short.
January 7, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Eric Kirk
Well, now that you mention it, it could be seen as a play on the Lenny Bruce joke.
January 7, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Lodgepole
“This wasn’t a crowd from a keg party which got out of hand.”
I think you’re really under estimating keg party crowds.
January 7, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Rose
No other country in the world would tolerate or be expected to tolerate thousand of missiles lobbed into their cities and schools and neighborhoods.
Lob ONE missile into San Francisco and see what happens. Ok, well this is the New America where men can’t even move a dead fox out of the road without calling for governmental assistance, so let’s say you lob 10 missiles into SF.
Would you tolerate it?
You should not.
Nor should you expect the Israelis to take it, and continue to take it.
It has to end. They have 13 days left.
January 7, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Eric Kirk
Well Rose, to be honest, if rockets were lobbed into San Diego from Mexico, I don’t think we’d engage in a week long bombing campaign killing 700 Mexicans. The response is over the top.
January 8, 2009 at 12:21 am
Rose
Depends, Eric. If it had been going on for years and all attempts at diplomacy, including giving them almost everything they asked for, had failed. If leaders from the top nations of the world had helped mediate Peace Summits, and every time an agreement was made it was broken, I don’t think it would be over the top at all.
January 8, 2009 at 4:52 am
Nick Bravo
RACISM IN REGARDS TO ANTI-RACISTS
January 8, 2009 at 4:54 am
Nick Bravo
The victim industry
January 8, 2009 at 5:12 am
Anonymous
“Well Rose, to be honest, if rockets were lobbed into San Diego from Mexico, I don’t think we’d engage in a week long bombing campaign killing 700 Mexicans. The response is over the top.”
Are you kidding? If the elected Mexican government announced that they were going to start a bombing campaign against San Diego citizens focusing where they could on children and then actually followed through with anything more than a bottle rocket we would level Mexico City within a hour. The general public would probably feel that our response was muted and restrained and be screaming for more.
January 8, 2009 at 8:45 am
Carson Park Ranger
“No other country in the world would tolerate or be expected to tolerate thousand of missiles lobbed into their cities and schools and neighborhoods.”
Rose’s point, though vapid and unoriginal, is oft-repeated by the nit-wits who lead American public opinion.
If San Diego were receiving crude missiles from Tijuana, the solution would be stop the siege on and occupation of Mexico.
January 8, 2009 at 8:50 am
Nick Bravo
so what your saying Carson is that the palestinians should occupy israel. I completely agree! The palestinians need to fight back against the tyrannical zionists!
January 8, 2009 at 8:56 am
Nick Bravo
Hey carson, why don’t you unblock me from yuour blog? You afraid of me? You afraid I’ll expose your intellectual dishonesty?
You don’t think I can best you in intellectual debate do you? Course not…so why block me?
LOL!
January 8, 2009 at 9:06 am
Nick Bravo
Carson, you’re wrong. The leveling of major mexican cities would be the only approriate response. Just as the leveling of israels major cities by the palestinian freedom fighters is an appropriate response.
January 8, 2009 at 9:09 am
Nick Bravo
another secret word stumbled upon!!!
January 8, 2009 at 9:11 am
Nick Bravo
ERIC YOU COWARD!!
January 8, 2009 at 9:28 am
Carson Park Ranger
My blog is not about the infantile Nick Bravo, though this blog increasingly is.
January 8, 2009 at 9:30 am
Nick Bravo
My freedom of speech has been thwarted! Dang you Eric!! DANG YOU!
January 11, 2009 at 7:44 am
willow
This is insane! I had been looking for the source of all this hatred here on this blog for the Israeli people and have found the source of the problem. This person calling himself nick bravo has made many posts bashing the Israeli people and trumpeting the terrorist acts of Hamas!
While he is probably not a serious threat I think Homeland Security should be informed about him so they can detain and question him. His rantings make it clear that he is possibly delusional and needs to be removed from society, or he’s a fanatical anti-semite who needs to be continuously monitored.
I cannot understand why such anti-semetic language is allowed on your blog Eric! This has made me incredibly upset and were I member of an American or Israeli security force I would myself arrest and interrogate him!
December 31, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Sohum Parlance’s top 10 topics for 2009 – non-local stories « Sohum Parlance II
[...] Jewish Voice for Peace responding to Gaza attacks – I made this post exactly one year ago and it received the most hits of any non-local [...]