Short answer – on top of nearly constant anti-Semitic propaganda, much of the Muslim world hasn’t even heard of it. No, I don’t blame all Muslims, nor even Islam per se in contrast to some others who have posted here. But the anti-war movement isn’t doing anybody any favors by trying to downplay, ignore, or gloss-over these very harsh realities. The recent Holocaust denial donference in Iran should be a serious issue of discussion within anti-war movement circles. Some are taking it on. Others are in denial.
By Ayaan Hirsi Ali
AYAAN HIRSI ALI, a Somali immigrant who served in the parliament of the Netherlands until earlier this year, is the author of “Infidel,” an autobiography to be published in February.
December 16 2006
ONE DAY IN 1994, when I was living in Ede, a small town in Holland, I got a visit from my half-sister. She and I were both immigrants from Somalia and had both applied for asylum in Holland. I was granted it; she was denied. The fact that I got asylum gave me the opportunity to study. My half-sister couldn’t.
The complete article can be viewed at:
http://www.latimes. com/news/ opinion/la- oe-ali16dec16, 0,4520813. story
Some key passages:
I saw pictures of masses of skeletons, even of kids. I heard horrifying accounts of some of the people who had survived the terror of Auschwitz and Sobibor. I told my half-sister all this and showed her the pictures in my history book. What she said was as awful as the information in my book.
With great conviction, my half-sister cried: “It’s a lie! Jews have a way of blinding people. They were not killed, gassed or massacred. But I pray to Allah that one day all the Jews in the world will be destroyed.”
….
Western leaders today who say they are shocked by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s conference this week denying the Holocaust need to wake up to that reality. For the majority of Muslims in the world, the Holocaust is not a major historical event that they deny. We simply do not know it ever happened because we were never informed of it.
….
What’s striking about Ahmadinejad’s conference is the (silent) acquiescence of mainstream Muslims. I cannot help but wonder: Why is there no counter-conference in Riyadh, Cairo, Lahore, Khartoum or Jakarta condemning Ahmadinejad? Why are the 57 members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference silent on this?
Could the answer be as simple as it is horrifying: For generations, the leaders of these so-called Muslim countries have been spoon-feeding their populations a constant diet of propaganda similar to the one that generations of Germans (and other Europeans) were fed — that Jews are vermin and should be dealt with as such? In Europe, the logical conclusion was the Holocaust. If Ahmadinejad has his way, he shall not want for compliant Muslims ready to act on his wish.
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December 29, 2006 at 9:29 pm
Anonymous
“Could the answer be as simple as it is horrifying: For generations, the leaders of these so-called Muslim countries have been spoon-feeding their populations a constant diet of propaganda similar to the one that generations of Germans (and other Europeans) were fed — that Jews are vermin and should be dealt with as such? In Europe, the logical conclusion was the Holocaust. If Ahmadinejad has his way, he shall not want for compliant Muslims ready to act on his wish.”
This is pure anti-German propaganda. Jews in Germany were part and parcel of German society until the Zionists in Germany sided with the Allies in stripping Germany of her industrial strength by slapping huge reparation fines on them. When Zionist German Jews declared war on the Germany economy in 1938, the German reaction was one of anger, anger fueled not by any racism against Jews but against what the Jews were doing economically to cripple the German economy.
If blogsters want to here the “other side of the story” from a Jew who was there when all this went down and later blew the whistle on Zionists, please do a Google search on Benjamin Freedman and listen to his 1961 speech. You will learn a history of WW I and WW II that you never knew before. And you will learn a major reason why this person of Ashkenazi descent works to repair what Ashkenazis have done are doing to destroy peace in the world.
December 29, 2006 at 9:50 pm
Eric V. Kirk
God Steve! Do you really believe that crap?!!!!
December 29, 2006 at 9:53 pm
Eric V. Kirk
6 million people do not get killed because “zionists” sided with the allies in WW1. 6 million people were killed because Germans and other Europeans hated Jews, and many of them continue to do so.
December 29, 2006 at 10:50 pm
Anonymous
No, eric, you are quite wrong. Germans would not have allowed Hitler to rise to power except for what they perceived as Jewish treachery in how the Treaty of Versailles’s reparations leveled at Germany ruined the German economy.
Folks, listen to Benjamin Freedman. Zionists have been selling the world their “irrational hatred of Jews” line for millennia but Hitler didn’t become Fuhrer on irrational hatred of Jews. He rose to power based on German rationally based anger at how German Jewish bankers and Jewish merchants organizing boycotts of German goods had sabotaged their country’s economy and financially aided the enemies of Germany.
It is this type of information that has been soundly suppressed in America that fuels non-American, non-Jewish interest in the veracity of the Jewish holocaust, of the morality of Israeli territorial aggression that looks more and more like Nazi occupation every year, and of American interest in what really happened on 9-11.
Without independent study of these events, we remain at the mercy of the major media vendors which so far in America are in the hands of pro-Israel Zionists.
December 29, 2006 at 10:54 pm
Eric V. Kirk
Steve – you have some education. You’re obviously well read. There’s no excuse for this!
December 30, 2006 at 12:56 am
Anonymous
Ask Prescott Bush about The Holocaust. After all, he was one of its authors.
December 30, 2006 at 1:45 am
Anonymous
Steve why do you do this? You make me side with Eric, and I can’t stand to do that! Why do you punish me by putting me on the same side as Eric V. Kirk? Why?
December 30, 2006 at 1:46 am
Anonymous
Eric, here is a short list of huge frauds perpetrated on naive Gentiles by Jews.
Jewish Bible myths
No “Moses”
No Exodus
No “David”
No “Solomon”
No Solomon’s Temple
No Greater Israel kingdoms
Pauline Christianity rests on Jewish myths as does Muhammad’s Islam. These were fictions from the get-go but due to the form of Christianity took in the Roman Empire under Constantin, most Christians even today are unaware that their Bible stories are Jewish fables as are most Jews, even atheistic ones.
Huge Fraud No.2 was perpetrated by my Ashkenazi relatives who swindled the whole world with cries for a “Jewish homeland” when Ashkenazis were themselves only Turko-Slavs religious converts to Judaism without a trace of ancestral heritage with Semitic peoples of Palestine. Ashkenazis comprised 92% of all Jewry in 1961 and yet we allowed these Europeans to lobby for and get Israel by the forced removal of the true indigenous peoples so that Ashkenazi religious converts can have their land instead. Think of the horrors this Fraud has spawned for all Palestinians and the whole Middle East.
Now with 9-11, we may very well have an even greater Fraud perpetrated against us by Israeli Mossad in cahoots with CIA, MI5, neo-cons and high-ups in the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
I’d love to be proven wrong. But so far, everything points to massive cover-ups and slander to stop true independent investigation of these events that have dictated our American history in ways we have yet to learn.
December 30, 2006 at 1:50 am
Anonymous
The muslims, at least the educated ones that wear shoes, know what happened to the Jews in WW II. They just won’t admit it or deny it because it suits their purpose, their agenda. The modern day muslim extremist twist the Koran to fit their particular hatred or obsession. If it’s OK with them to blow up women and kids do you really think they worry about lying?
December 30, 2006 at 3:10 am
Anonymous
I wonder if any of those US made rockets and missiles launched against Palestinians by Israel over the years of occupation – always in retaliation for what some extremists were doing to Israel, which automatically makes it OK of course,- killed any innocent Palestinian women and children? No matter.
The obvious answer to the “Palestinian question” is there needs to be more Jews and fewer Palestinians. If there’s anything, and I think I can safely speak for all of us, except for Steve, that we Americans can do to assist in acheiving that goal – just call on us, Israel. What’s ours is yours. Especially from our hardware dept.
December 30, 2006 at 4:31 am
Anonymous
If Steve Lewis ever wonders why he is a laughingstock to most people, all he needs to do is to reread his comments on this thread. His knowledge of history is tendentious, to say the least. May he look within his heart to discover the roots of his animus, and may he, someday, pray for forgiveness.
December 30, 2006 at 5:58 am
Anonymous
speaking of laughing stocks ! does that gal from CREG still have weekly pancake breakfasts to fund her fight against the evil corporations?
December 30, 2006 at 6:55 am
Anonymous
It might be a good idea to take a look at any current map of Israel and you will see instantly what the true bone, or boner, of contention is in the middle east.
Imagine Israel as an erect penis standing in the face of just about every Arab, or muslim, country around it.
This penis however, has a few unique peculiarities. Besides a remnant of ugly foreskin at the top thrust into the ass of Syria called the Golan Heights (great name for an upscale condo village btw), it also has a chunk right in the center outer glans that looks like a large painful lesion. That’s called the West Bank or what’s left of old school Palestine, most of which has already been absorbed in the original creation of the erection. Presently the inflamed area is attached, some might claim reattached, to the main shaft and once the bandages are removed, the penis should look like a whole new man. There’s still that pesky flap of foreskin to deal with.
Now the question is: do you really think that the penis doesn’t mind if that particular center piece of it becomes independant from the rest of the shaft, or do you think that the penis will be inclined to do whatever it has to do to maintain a complete rampant erection? After all, who wants to get fucked by anything less?
But, we are told, the real problem is that muslims, who had nothing to do with the holocaust of 60 years ago, deny it ever happened today. Despicable!
December 30, 2006 at 7:10 am
Eric V. Kirk
Thanx Anon 10:55. That’s very enlightening.
December 30, 2006 at 7:49 am
Anonymous
Your welcome, Eric, anytime.
December 30, 2006 at 10:12 am
Anonymous
Anon 10:55 is steve lewis
December 30, 2006 at 10:20 am
Anonymous
As someone of German ancestry I wish to inform you all that I and no other German is responsible for the behavior of the Nazi’s.
I am sick of the Zionist media acting as though we who were born long after the fall of the third Reich are somehow responsible for the crimes of the past.
Yet, I see this behavior everywhere. People demanding reperations from ancestors of the people who violated their ancestors. It’s ridiculous!
What if I claimed I wanted compensation from the italians who are the descendants of the Romans who invaded the Rhine River Valley and attacked my ancestors during the the time of the Roman Empire.
I would be laughed out of the room. Yet Zionists still get pampered over due to their eternal whining.
December 30, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Anonymous
Or try this one I read recently in the paper. An 83 year old woman is deported back to Austria or Serbia or thereabouts because she was a prison guard at one of the German concentration camps. This person must have been all of 18 or 19 at the most when she served and now at 83 gets deported for being a “Nazi” in WW II.
Judaism is based on a god that wreaks revenge on Gentiles. That eye-for-an-eye ideology creates the vicious vindictiveness one sees in Jewish inability to forgive–one of the major reasons Jesus was sent in to change the religion.
December 30, 2006 at 4:13 pm
anon 10:55
anon 2:12
Anon 10:55 is NOT Steve Lewis, believe it or not. It is me, and I am anon 10:55 alone.
What is truly amazing is how this bloggster, Eric by name, and many other of his ilk, always approach this issue from the “poor Jews” point of view – for the lack of a better way of putting it.
Does anybody here in this great land of liberty and freedom ever give a shit about the other side’s point of view or even try to understand it? (Outside of their denial of the holocaust, of course.)
While many of you who visit this blog from time to time probably weren’t even born yet, I happened to be around in 1967 – the year of the infamous Six Day War (of liberation). I was one of the millions of Americans who were rooting for the Israelis to kick some Arab ass.
But then a funny thing happened. I noticed that many of the claims made by Israel at the time, to wit:
- that the Arabs started to invade Israel first. Israel was only defending itself,
- that the attack on the USS Liberty, where 8 American sailors were killed by Israeli war planes was purely an accident,
did not quite measure up to simple logic and evidence.
In case this is all too long ago for any of you, (but again, the holocaust isn’t), those claims by Israel turned out to be total bullshit.
Israel precipitated the attack and obviously, caught the Arab nations of Eygpt, Syria, and Jordan completely by surprise – which is the main reason why it only took them six days. Talk about your Blitzkrieg!
When US and other intelligences figured that out, Israel then changed its story to one that should be familiar to us all today re Iraq – well, we had to launch a preemptive attack against them. We couldn’t wait for them to attack us first could we?
And, in case none of you give a shit about 8 dead Americans servicemen in 1967, though we all care about the rising toll in Iraq today, it is petty well known now, though never given much press, that the attack upon the USS Liberty, a US intelligence ship which was clearly marked with the fucking US flag, was a deliberate attempt by Israel to prevent anyone from knowing who started firing first. They were trying to sink her.
But again, all of that is ancient history and we and Israel have not only kissed and made up over that unfortunate incident – and other spying incidents perpetrated by Israel upon our intelligence, (anyone ever hear of Pollard?), we fully support anything they do to those rag head, dune coons, which we don’t particularly like very much because, well, because we just don’t have much in common with them, I guess. Or we don’t want to offend any of our Jewish friends or business partners.
Just once it would be nice if Eric started a thread about the other point of view in the middle east. While it may not ever be as popular as the holocaust – should I capitalize that, or just leave that for the Jews to do? – we might start to learn something about how almost a billion people who live around OUR oilfields see things. Who knows, it might actually promote better understanding. We’re always up for that, right?
December 30, 2006 at 7:23 pm
Andy Stunich
I would also like to respond to Anon 10:55. It is true that the attack on the Liberty was inexcusable and why it happened remains unsatisfactorily explained. It may have been an accident and it may have occurred because the Israelis thought the ship was gathering intelligence. However, that attack hardly affects the merits of Israel’s preemptive strike on the Arab States in 1967. Israel’s preemptive strike was well warranted by the concentration of Arab forces on Israel’s borders, the express pronouncements by Gamal Abdul Nasser, the charismatic president of the United Arab Republic (UAR), calling for the annihilation of Israel, and all of the other signs that the UAR was preparing to attack Israel. Egypt blockaded the Gulf of Aqaba, Israel’s sea lane to Africa and Asia and ordered the removal of a UN peacekeeping force in the Sinai. The blocking of a nation’s waterways is universally considerd an act of war. A tiny country such as Israel cannot marshal its forces forever to protect itself from attack. Israel relies on reserves of citizens in times of war as it cannot afford to maintain a permanent, large standing army due to its limited size. As it was, the Knesset had to raise taxes by ten percent to pay for Israel’s mobilization in response to the UAR’s concentration of forces and equipment on Israel’s borders. Israel with its then 2.5 million population was surrounded by 110 million Arabs who were almost universally committed to its destruction. There was a constant flow of Russian made T34 and T35 tanks rolling toward Gaza where the UAR had already amassed a billion dollars worth of Soviet military hardware. Time was running out for Israel. Mobilization was costing the country to loose 15 to 20 million per day in lost production in factories and fields. Children were delivering the mail on bicycles while the men were at the border. By the time Israel attacked, Cairo radio had long since announced that Egypt was undertaking full preparedness for war and to undertake combat tasks on the Israeli front. Gamal Nasser further announced over Cairo radio that: “We face you in battle and are burning with desire to start in order to obtain revenge. This will make the world realize what the Arabs are and what the Jews are.” If Anon 10:55 believes that Israel’s preemptive strike was uncalled for under the foregoinmg circumstances, then Anon has different values from most people. No nation should be forced to accept such circumstances that will inevitably lead to its ruin. Had Israel not attacked, it would have been destroyed economically. In any event, the Arabs made it clear war was inevitable and Israel owed it to her citizens to protect them.
December 30, 2006 at 8:07 pm
anon 10:55
” If Israel had not attacked, it would have been destroyed economically”.
Andy Stunich 11:23
That’s quite different than your original claim that the Arabs were planning an immanent attack against Israel. While I’m quite aware of Nasser’s claims at the time, he wasn’t getting a whole lot of support from any of the other arab players in this so called Israel against all flags concept of yours.
I noticed you didn’t even mention anything about Jordan. What was their crime to warrant an invasion and the grabbing off of the West Bank in the process? – which, btw, is still the main sticking point in the middle east almost 40 years later. Or Syria for that matter?
No doubt Israel was having problems with Nasser, but The Six Day War was launched against other Arab nations who were less vocal and less prepared for a war than Israel obviously was.
They say that history repeats itself and 9/11, which was a real attack against us by Osama Bin Laden, was used by this admin to invade Iraq, a country which had nothing to do with it. You seem to be taking a page from the George Bush playbook, which borrowed freely from what the Israelis got away with in 1967. If one Arab nation or group threatens us, they all do. Is that it?
December 30, 2006 at 8:26 pm
Anonymous
The 1967 six day war was a pre-emptive strike. And it succeeded because the Isreali Air Force was (and is) exceptional. The attack on the USS Liberty was just plane wrong and tragic.
You don’t mention the 1973 (Yom Kippur) war!?!?!?!?! Because Egypt and it’s allies did what you are condemning Isreal for. But Eqypt did it because they were being fed false information by the USSR. You would know that if you read up on your history.
I don’t really care about the really ancient history. But the muslim extremists that openly suggest, encourage, promote, and threaten to kill Americans just because we are Americans …….. I have no problem with a “pre-emptive” strike on them. Any of them, all of them. Anyone that threatens America is an enemy of America.
December 30, 2006 at 8:34 pm
Andy Stunich
King Hussein of Jordan signed a so-called defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Nasser then announced: “The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Kumait, Sudan, and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle; the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.”
Israel can hardly be blamed for taking Egypt at its word. If Jordan was not truly supportive of the battle plan, it should have publicly said so. To the contrary, everything King Hussein did and said indicated that he intended to live up to Jordan’s treaty with Egypt.
Finally, Israeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol sent a message on June 5 to King Hussein saying that Israel would not attack Jordan unless he initiated hostilities. When Jordanian radar picked up planes flyng from Egypt to Israel, Nasser convinced Hussein they were Egyptian planes and he began to have Jordanian forces shell Israeli held West Jurusalem. Then and only then did Israel attack Jordan.
Are there any other allegedly innocent Arab nations that were attacked that you would like me to address?
December 30, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Andy Stunich
I would also like to point out to Anon 10:55 that the West Bank that Jordan lost in the Six Day War is known to Israelis as Judea and Samaria, an integral part of ancient Israel and Judea. Jordan seized the West Bank in the initial Arab war against Israel. Prior to that time, Jordan was known as Transjordan referring to its status as being located across the Jordan river. Jordan cannot be heard to complain that it lost territory that it wrongfully seized in a war of aggression in a subsequent war of aggression it helped start. The Six Day War made the Israeli public aware that Israel was alone with respect to defending itself and Israel was more aware than ever of the dangers of the Arab world and the uncertain nature of American support given that America had pledged to keep the Straits of Tiran open and reneged when Egypt closed the Straits. (We were caught up in the Vietnam War) Israel rightfully decided that it needed more secure borders to defend herself. It was a momentous decision as Israel would not have been able to successfully defend herself in the subsequent Yom Kippur/Ramadan war had she not held on to territory conquered in the Six Day War and there would have been another Holocaust.
December 30, 2006 at 9:33 pm
Anonymous
There would never have been an “Israel” if we Americans and Europeans were not swindled by the Ashkenazi Zionists from Hertzl on down to Wolfawitz.
Ashkenazi Jews without a lick of Semitic blood in them, this I can prove having traced my own Ashkenazi genes on as far east as Uzbekistan, part of the Khazar kingdom homeland where Ashkenazis began. Ashkenazis comprise 92% of all Jews in 1961 and we have given them a “homeland” by allowing these Turko-Slav religious converts to throw out the indigenous peoples to soothe our Western consciences. Less than 2% of the Holocaust survivors decide to move to Israel which was created for them. And how many needless deaths to Arab Palestinians over this Ashkenazi ruse?
When we in the West begin to see Palestine through Palestinian eyes and not through European colonialist ones or Zionist ones, we might understand why Arabs hate America better. We should know better than to side with foreign aggressors against indigenous peoples but that lesson seems long in learning for many of us.
December 30, 2006 at 11:25 pm
Andy Stunich
Steve, your belief that Israel exists because of America is inaccurate and your focus on alleged blood lines is, candidly, a little scary. Are you saying that if they were “true” Jews your views would change? What, by the way, is a true Jew in your view? Moreover, it was not until 1968, just prior to leaving office, that President Johnson sold Phantom jets to Israel and America became Israel’s great supporter. Prior to that time, we indirectly supplied limited arms to Israel through West Germany beginning only in 1962. However, we also sold tanks to Jordan and were unwilling prtior to 1968 to allow Israel to gain a military advantage. These sales were also meant to counter-balance Soviet arm supplies to Syria and Egypt. Contrary to popular misconception, it was not American made planes that won the Six Day War. During the Six Day War, Israel flew French-built Mirages, Mysteres and Super Mysteres. The fact is that, but for America and the safe haven it provided to many Jews, Israel would have a much larger population. Many Holocaust Jews opted for America instaed of Israel. Israel exists Steve because Jews believed that they needed a place where they could assume responsibility for their own defense. Given the history of anti-Semitism in both the Islamic World and large parts of the Western World, they can hardly be blamed for having such sentiments. The Jews succeeded because international investigations revealed that partition of the Holy Land was the only possible solution to the violence between Jews and Arabs. That violence was started by the Arabs. The partition solution was hardly a surprising result as logic and common sense dictate that if two sides have irreconcilable views and goals that lead to violence, they must be separated, if possible. What would you have done Steve? Forcibly remove Jews? Place the Arabs in control of them? Please Steve, tells us how you would have resolved the problem.
December 31, 2006 at 12:44 am
Anonymous
If Western intellectuals had not allowed themselves to be deceived by Ashkenazis, the whole Israel mess would never have happened. We owe Pauline Christianity for that lack of unbiased intellectual inquiry into the historical basis of Judaism and Christianity. The Jewish myths of origin were accepted as true history by Western Christians and so when Ashkenazis claiming to be Jews with heritage to the Holy Land Christians never seriously doubted their claim, certainly never looked seriously into it since the Jewish holocaust. That made it easy for Ashkenazis to pull off their swindle and get the most powerful Western allies to back their demand for Palestine. Not a single Palestinian Arab was ever consulted about the U.N. negotiations that partitioned Palestine. It was a done deal from the get go, a way the Brits could keep an eye on their Suez Canal and a way Europe and America could keep an eye and hand on the Middle East oil supplies. In short, Western power politics backed an Ashkenazi lie that has created modern Israel.
No, we can’t go backwards and I don’t mean for Palestinians to take back control of their land by shoving Israelis into the sea even though Israeli policy is a reverse of that–shoving Palestinians out of their own land. Israelis are there and have a history with the land now. A solution must protect their rights along with Palestinians. But as for the name and religious concept of “Israel”? I don’t think that will last once the Western world understands that Ashkenazi Jews pulled a fast one on them–the anti-Palestinian apartheid policies of Israeli nationalists is the other hammer that will eventually destroy Israel.
I work with Palestinians and others who want to see a single democratic state. “Palestine” and “Israel” will eventually make way for “Canaan” as the name most appropriate for the land promised by God to all the descendants of Abraham, all of them.
December 31, 2006 at 3:37 am
Eric V. Kirk
Looks like a substantial discussion here! I’ll have to catch up a little bit later on. Have to catch up with Reggae first.
December 31, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Anonymous
For the record, I do not deny the Jewish holocaust. I vividly remember seeing newsreel pictures as a very young kid of concentration camp dead bodies, thousands of them, being bulldozed into mass graves. The thing is, the dead I saw while numbering in the thousands, was not in the tens of thousands and every dead body was completely emaciated. These people had died of starvation. They didn’t need to be gassed and it seems to me that was probably the case for most of the concentration camp deaths. Allies had cut the supply lines at the closing year of the war and there was no food for concentration camp prisoners. Typhus probably killed most of them, next starvation. The other question is the mechanics of gas chambers–killing millions of people with gas while it seems hard to keep the gas execution equipment working right to kill one person I read somewhere due to high corrosive properties of these killing gases. And finally, reading a report by a Jewish visitor to Aushwitz and Buchenwald, who saw the supposed gas chambers and seriously doubted they could be used kill millions of people.
Seeing how many human lives have been affected by Western reaction to the Jewish holocaust, e.g., the establishment of Israel by the removal from power and land of Palestinians, it seems to me there is ample room for doubt by those affected by the political outcome and that is all of the Middle East who hold no culpability whatsoever for the European cause Jewish holocaust.
December 31, 2006 at 9:45 pm
Anonymous
Andy, I know all about the Zionist movement. What you have not addressed is the moral question of supporting a social fraud that has resulted in the loss of lives of thousands of peoples, millions of peoples’ lives made miserable in order to support the Ashkenazi religious fraud.
Andy and eric. Would either of you support Chinese Muslims claiming Saudi Arabia and Mecca as their homeland? Would either of you support a United Nations mandate ordering Saudis to divide their land with Chinese immigrants whose only claim is religious conversion to Islam? The notion is ridiculous on the face of it yet that is exactly the situation with Zionists Ashkenazis who do not have a drop of Semitic blood in them and no historic ancestral ties to the Holy Land whatsoever. When America and European powers backed the Ashkenazi Zionist fraud, of course Arabs in the Middle East would erupt in anger, especially when not a single Arab Palestinian was ever consulted about what was happening to his or her homeland.
Until we in America face the evil we have helped create in modern Israel, we have only ourselves to blame for continued loss of human lives in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which fueled the Iraq war and now inspires more war madness in otherwise rational men.
January 2, 2007 at 7:02 am
Eric V. Kirk
If the Muslims had just suffered near genocide and had a history of being mistreated around the world and presently had no country of their own, I would indeed support some land being set aside for them.
January 2, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Anonymous
“some land being set aside for them”.
So in your mind it is reasonable and just that a foreign peoples can be introduced into a land not their own pushing aside or out of the way altogether the indigenous population.
With this ethic, eric, Ukrainians should be able to take over Russia or say, California, or England, Armenians could take over New York or Spain, Cambodians could take Italy, Kurds could have Costa Rica, Tutus could have Norway, etc, etc, etc,
Oh, what about Native Americans, eric? Bear River should be able to have San Diego county, right? And what about gays and Gypsies? They get Australia or maybe Antartica? Lesbians will get the moon for their own planet?
Eric, Jews aren’t the only minority to suffer holocausts. Why do you let yourself reinforce their ability to circumvent our Constitution’s separation of Church and State with special laws and acts protecting the interests of Jews over the rest of the American and world population, e.g., your continuing support for a rogue state that violates International Law repeatedly?
January 2, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Eric V. Kirk
Well, I’d rather have cut off a chunk of Germany. But I didn’t get a vote.
January 3, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Stephen
Eric, I wish you and Andy would really address this question I pose about the morality of Ashkenazi Jewish as foreign religious converts gaining political favor of powerful states with their control of the U.N., and using that support and U.N. control to oust the indigenous peoples of Palestine so that Ashkenazi European and American Jews could have a homeland for themselves?
You give your flippant answer that shows me you don’t want to think morally about Ashkenazi Jewish territorial aggression and human rights of Palestinians.
January 4, 2007 at 4:02 am
Andy Stunich
Steve, the Jews that started immigrating to Palestine initially were fleeing the pogroms of Eastern Europe. Their blood lines mean nothing to me. I have no doubt that over the centuries that Jews inter-married with a multitude of people. Judaism is a religion – not a race. I also believe that the Jews fairly purchased land and that plenty was left over for the Arabs. The fact is that the Jews caused massive Arab immigration from the surrounding Arab states as they created more favorable living conditions. Even many famous so-called Palestinians were really born Syrian, Jordanian or Egyptian. Arafat, for example, was born in Egypt. Many Israelis were Jews summarily ousted from Arab lands after 1948. The Arabs as a group brought all of the suffering upon themselves. Yes, there were innocent Arabs, but they have their fellow Arabs to blame. Why is it that Israel absorbed and housed hundreds of thousands of Jews summarily kicked out of Arab lands yet the Arab world with all of its oil wealth left its refugees in camps to be fed by UN money mostly provided by the United States? I will tell you why. They wanted those poor Arabs left there to be cannon fodder against Israel. Israel was even ready to take many back as long as the Arab states would agree to peace – they refused.
January 4, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Stephen
Andy, you still are refusing to address the morality of foreign religious converts with no, repeat no, ancestral ties with Palestine, using Western super powers to inflict their religious territorial ambition by ousting indigenous peoples.
Was it moral for us Europeans to take Turtle Island away from Native Americans? It happened, yes, but was it right? How long do we tolerate fascist ideology that might makes right, the strong have the right to rule the weak?
All Zionist supporters of Israel have to answer that moral question and answer the morality of foreign converts taking another peoples’ land.
As for Judaism not being a race, that is Jewish propaganda. Ashkenazis are used in human genetic experiments precisely because of Ashkenazi racial selection policies producing a genetic standard by which to measure dna variables. I couldn’t have traced my Jewish ancestry if it were not for Ashkenazi racial selection policies making Ashkenazi genes different from the mainstream Gentile ones, e.g, the diseases specific to Ashkenazis proving inbreeding for generations.
It wasn’t until after 1950′s that Jews could marry Gentiles without receiving condemnation from the Jewish community. My friend Siena said her grandparents would have disowned her parents if either had married Gentiles, yet Siena’s parents were not practicing Jews themselves. The term “shitzka” for example, used freely and humorously to describe a Gentile girl, is the Yiddish word for whore. Imagine what would happen if Gentiles said that their son or daughter is marrying a Jewish whore but Jews say this phrase with impunity, knowing the power of “anti-Semitism” censorship of free speech that they’ve successfully established in most Western nations.
Without freedom of speech, we cannot intelligently discuss the ideology of Zionism, Judaism or Israeli history.
Eric, perhaps you could open up a thread on these topics and let ‘er rip.